AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: dryan01uk on 4 Jun 2021, 01:11 am

Title: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 4 Jun 2021, 01:11 am
Hi all.  Newbie from Australia here.

I'm planning to progressively upgrade my system - I have an eclectic taste in music that started in vinyl and moved to digital, enjoy HT and use console gaming as another form of relaxation.... and I'm 50+ yrs old (pushing 60, but hey, still young at heart, I suspect like most of us).

Anyway, having recently moved into a new home, I'm keen to explore top-end DIY speaker systems and the GR 'stuff' from Danny caught my eye, after watching some of the YouTube content available.

I have an existing mix of Q-Acoustics 3050i floor standers and 3090c centre, KEF sealed sub and Klipsch ATMOS speakers, that works and integrates well enough to my ear - both across stereo and multi-channel sessions. 

My plan, as time and funds allow is to :

1. replace my centre with an X-Voce kit
2. replace L&R with X-statik kit
3. replace the sub with one / two servo sub kit 4
4. either integrating my existing speakers as surrounds

My new listening room is 6.0m (L) x 4.0m (W)  X 2.5m (H) or 19.6' x 13.1' x 8.2' in imperial - so a reasonable size.  Lots of glass and a double door on one side, so needing some room work.

Now, to my questions, as I don't see much love in the forums or elsewhere for the X-Voce (lots of great builds on the X-statik and servo subs which are awesome and very inspirational):

A - what size is the X-Voce - The GR web-site doesn't have much info?
B - As they are semi OB - I assume siting 3' off the wall is ideal?
C - what are people's experience with the sound?
D - Any tips to improve the experience?
 E -Assuming I get the CNC kit, how easy is it to fit a speaker grill - I want to prevent kids and grand-kids pushing in the tweeter domes like I've experienced before......  I'd assume not much more difficult that doing the same to X-statik and subs?
F - will my progressive upgrade plan work - if I use something like Audyssey EQ XT, will it help balance the system as I move through my plan or should I start with the X-Statik kits?

Hope you can help provide some guidance.  I'm looking forward to sharing my experience over the next few years.

dryan01uk
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: E-Zee on 4 Jun 2021, 06:26 am
A. Approx 8.5 tall x 36 wide x 14.5 deep.
B. Semi OB is fair description, similar to the X-Statics. You have open mid/tweeter/mid in center and sealed woofers on each end.
C. I dont own these personally so others will be more qualified to give details.  My experience with them is through close family friends in Oklahoma that use X-Voce together with X-Statics, and a single medium-tier ported sub.  It is a great pairing.  The X-statics are well praised and for good reason but I do think the X-Voce deserves much more positive attention than it gets.  Great center channel at a great price.
D. Placement of course, room setup, some gains to be had from moderate crossover upgrades, tube connectors.
E. Grills are fairly simple for the mentioned designs.  You have flat square front baffles, make thin frames and wrap with an acoustic cloth, attach with magnets, or clips, or pins.
F.  Audyssey EQ will help but I wouldn't be so concerned with perfect balance through the transition process.  If your woodworking skills are going to grow and improve throughout the planned builds than I'd suggest starting first with the X-Voce kit first it will be easier build and what you learn there will help you be more successful with the X-Statics.

Your making some good choices.  Good luck with it all.

- Elon

ezeescrossovers.com (http://ezeescrossovers.com)
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 4 Jun 2021, 06:51 am
Thanks for the info Elon.  Spot on advice.

I'll do some measurements and check room layout.  It looks like it will be a good fit.  I like the note about developing my wood working skills - its one of the reasons I selected the X-Voce as a starting point.  I was also going to jump to the upgraded x-over.  If I'm shipping a kit half-way around the world, I may as well avoid doing it twice chasing an upgrade later!

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: corndog71 on 4 Jun 2021, 05:18 pm
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208207)

I had this set up a few years ago.  It's a great combo and I definitely recommend it.  The only thing I would advise is that you get the full upgrade with No Rez and Sonicaps. 
I also used X-Omnis as my rear surrounds which worked very well.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Vince in TX on 4 Jun 2021, 08:32 pm
It sounds like your setup will be similar to mine.   I picked up my X-Voce and my X-Static speakers second-hand, and I am in the process of assembling a pair of Servo Sub 4 kits for my home theater.   I thought about using my existing Klipsch surrounds, but I decided to leave them in the game room and go all-in with Danny's stuff.   He's sending me quad A/V-1RS speakers for the surrounds once he gets all of the components together.   I'm using Bowers & Wilkins CCM684s for the ceiling Atmos speakers.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223989)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224987)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224989)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225006)



Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 5 Jun 2021, 12:22 am
They are both great looking setups - I love how you've finished the speakers.

Looks like both set-ups are way ahead on the path to where I want to be.   Ah well.  A journey of a thousand miles always starts with the first step.

Now to send Danny an email and start the fun discussion on shipping....

Thank you for the great info.  I'm sure to have more questions as I progress.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Theronbo on 6 Jun 2021, 07:44 pm
X-Statics & x-Voce need room to breath...

Not to lecture... (so I will).

I’d say both Corndog & Vince...

1. Speakers are way to close to the wall...

2. Should be spaced in the room... roughly dividing the room in thirds...

You want to position them to hit the ‘Sweet Spot’ - where suddenly the music just fills the room...

I did this with my LR X-Statics... great for music... but still had my X-Voce just 6” off the wall... Danny saw a photo I posted of my rig & made the comment “move it out”... I did... thinking it wouldn’t make much difference.... it did... sounds much better.

My sister was just visiting yesterday... asked me “why are your speakers so far out into the room?”

I bit my tongue, just said “they sound better that way.”

There’s a YouTube video dedicated to just finding the sweet spot.... involves putting grid on you floor every foot... moving & testing/listening. 

I just used the rule of thumb... 1/3 east west & 1/5 north & south with a minimum 3’ off the back wall ...


Mine are all 5.5’ in a 20’ deep room (north south) & 10’ separation east west 30’ wide. 600 sqft room with 12’ ceiling.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 6 Jun 2021, 10:06 pm
Thanks for the info, Theronbo.

I saw you photos and Danny’s comment elsewhere on the forum and was wondering how you got on.

For HT, I believe it’s normal to recommend putting the TV in line with the front wall of baffles.  How well does it work with the TV hung on the wall behind?

Fortunately, I’ve got plenty of room to pull the speakers off the wall - although I was also planning to use acoustic panels on the walls to tighten up any resonance effects.... that’s a long way down the line from here, though.

Over the weekend, I’ve ‘swamped’ Danny with emails (ok, three emails), so I’ve started my journey.

In good ol’ Australia, I can’t get 3/4 inch MDF (19.05mm) - only 18mm or 25mm.  I’m favouring 25mm and getting a local CNC mob to cut the various panels for me.  Does anyone have any experience using thicker MDF for cabinets and the impact this might have on the sound?  I’d want to keep the internal volume close to the design, but there will be some minor changes.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: mlundy57 on 6 Jun 2021, 10:22 pm
TV on wall works fine. I used a down and out style mount designed for TVs that are mounted over a fireplace and mounted the TV high enough up that when pushed back against the wall the top of the TV almost touches the ceiling. This lets me position the TV at a normal height when watching movies (though it is still well behind the speakers) yet get it up and mostly out f the way when listening to music.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 7 Jun 2021, 12:38 am
Thanks mlundy57.

I've been considering a similar mount but have some concerns about the weight / moment arm loading when mounting a large flat screen TV.  The mounting frame is only going to be screwed into wooden wall studs in an internal dry-wall.  I may just go with a tilt assembly.

Not a big issue yet - got to get the new speakers first.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: corndog71 on 7 Jun 2021, 03:23 am
That was my old apartment.  The baffles were at least 3’ away from the front wall.  I could’ve pulled them out further but just never did.  Now I’m in a smaller apartment and have no room for home theater.  Just 2.1 for now but a servo sub and the Statiks still sound great!  I’m looking at building a house in the next couple of years when hopefully the market is more sane.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 7 Jun 2021, 04:25 am
Sounds like the housing market in USA is as crazy as it is here in Australia.  I keep hearing about the daily increase in house prices and agree - the market is not sane!
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 7 Jun 2021, 06:49 pm
Ye, I'm hearing all kinds of stories where people are buying houses way over asking price.

Not to mention the crazy prices of wood & construction materials.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Vince in TX on 8 Jun 2021, 01:41 pm
X-Statics & x-Voce need room to breath...

Not to lecture... (so I will).

I’d say both Corndog & Vince...

1. Speakers are way to close to the wall...

2. Should be spaced in the room... roughly dividing the room in thirds...

You want to position them to hit the ‘Sweet Spot’ - where suddenly the music just fills the room...

I did this with my LR X-Statics... great for music... but still had my X-Voce just 6” off the wall... Danny saw a photo I posted of my rig & made the comment “move it out”... I did... thinking it wouldn’t make much difference.... it did... sounds much better.

My sister was just visiting yesterday... asked me “why are your speakers so far out into the room?”

I bit my tongue, just said “they sound better that way.”

There’s a YouTube video dedicated to just finding the sweet spot.... involves putting grid on you floor every foot... moving & testing/listening. 

I just used the rule of thumb... 1/3 east west & 1/5 north & south with a minimum 3’ off the back wall ...


Mine are all 5.5’ in a 20’ deep room (north south) & 10’ separation east west 30’ wide. 600 sqft room with 12’ ceiling.

Mine are actually downstairs sitting in front of my fireplace, waiting for the carpet to get installed into the theater room this Friday.   I've engineered the room layout where there will be a minimum of three feet to the baffle for all speakers on the front channels (and two feet from the side walls).   I'll have acoustic treatments behind them.

But this is good stuff!   Thanks for sharing.    :thumb:
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Vince in TX on 8 Jun 2021, 01:51 pm
Sounds like the housing market in USA is as crazy as it is here in Australia.  I keep hearing about the daily increase in house prices and agree - the market is not sane!

The house next door to us sold three to four years ago for $380,000.00.   Last week, that same house just sold for $440,000.00.   I have no doubt every dime I just put into my house building my theater room in the attic will come right back to me if I were to ever sell it.   And even with the increased material costs, it was significantly cheaper to build a room than to buy a larger house.   Crazy times.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: hawkeyejw on 8 Jun 2021, 04:09 pm
Lots of good info in here so far. I won’t repeat but just for reference, my Voce is slightly short of the ideal 3’ minimum from the front wall but it still sounds great. I have no doubt there’s improvement possible but coming from a Paradigm cc-370 it was a huge leap in clarity and dynamics.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Tyson on 8 Jun 2021, 04:15 pm
The house next door to us sold three to four years ago for $380,000.00.   Last week, that same house just sold for $440,000.00.   I have no doubt every dime I just put into my house building my theater room in the attic will come right back to me if I were to ever sell it.   And even with the increased material costs, it was significantly cheaper to build a room than to buy a larger house.   Crazy times.

It's even crazier here in Denver. 
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: OrangeAgent on 8 Jun 2021, 04:16 pm
Ive been meaning to ask this and thought it best to do so here rather than make a new thread.

The CNC flat pack for the X-Voce on the GR website appears to have a front baffle that is wider for the sealed sections than the open-baffle section. Looking at the supplied plans, the front baffle is to be one consistent width from end to end. Does it matter? Or more directly, what is the correct layout?

I need to convert the Spanish/metric instructions into a format that will work for me. Planning on using kreg pocket screws to secure sides/top of sealed chambers, then rabbiting the backs and attaching that way.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: mlundy57 on 8 Jun 2021, 06:02 pm
Thanks mlundy57.

I've been considering a similar mount but have some concerns about the weight / moment arm loading when mounting a large flat screen TV.  The mounting frame is only going to be screwed into wooden wall studs in an internal dry-wall.  I may just go with a tilt assembly.

Not a big issue yet - got to get the new speakers first.

D

Mine is a 55" LCD flatscreen on studs. In my case there was a window where I wanted to mount the TV so I built a 2x4 stud frame inside the window opening and attached the mount to the frame.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225416)
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 8 Jun 2021, 10:38 pm
LOL.  Where else would you find a discussion on great audio and house prices all in the same thread.  :popcorn:  Awesome.

As an aside, the median house price in Melbourne broke the $1M AUD at the beginning of the year due, in part, to government economic stimulus and it's all over the local media this week about a house in an 'up town area' breaking $33M AUD  - madness  :duh:
Quote
Melbourne is the capital city of Victoria with a population of over 4.8 million which accounts for 19.05% of national population. 

A lot of money for a small country ($1M AUD is about $800K USD).

@mlundy57 - those are some beautiful speakers - I love how you have integrated the design between the various components.

@Vince - what is the idea behind placing no-rez (I assume?) around the x-over on the X-Voce?

Does anyone have thoughts on my previous question of using 25mm (~1 inch) thick MDF for the cabinets, with 18mm for the internal baffles?

Thanks for all the notes - I'm learning a lot.  Just waiting for a few quotes back from Danny before hopefully placing an order - I guess inventory holding is a major head-ache for everyone presently.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Vince in TX on 9 Jun 2021, 01:17 am
@Vince - what is the idea behind placing no-rez (I assume?) around the x-over on the X-Voce?

I am actually the second owner of these speakers.   The original owner is also on here, Steven Stone.   He wrote a review on them way back when where he described the modifications you see.   The Ninja Crossovers came later:  https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/im-x-static-for-voce

EDIT:  Side note, here is the genesis of the modifications that came after the article:  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61602.msg628580#msg628580
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: mlundy57 on 9 Jun 2021, 01:23 am
@mlundy57 - those are some beautiful speakers - I love how you have integrated the design between the various components.

Does anyone have thoughts on my previous question of using 25mm (~1 inch) thick MDF for the cabinets, with 18mm for the internal baffles?

Thanks for all the notes - I'm learning a lot.  Just waiting for a few quotes back from Danny before hopefully placing an order - I guess inventory holding is a major head-ache for everyone presently.

D

Thanks. They sound way better than they look.

You can use the thicker MDF, no problem. Just be sure to adjust the dimensions so that the internal volume stays the same.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 9 Jun 2021, 01:42 am
@Vince - that was a very interesting read.  My anticipation is building for these things.

@mlundy57 - thanks for the notes on internal volume - that aligns with my thinking.

Looks like Danny and Co have just received a delivery of top-notch components - hopefully my quotes are in the mix, somewhere  :D

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Theronbo on 10 Jun 2021, 03:03 am
Ive been meaning to ask this and thought it best to do so here rather than make a new thread.

The CNC flat pack for the X-Voce on the GR website appears to have a front baffle that is wider for the sealed sections than the open-baffle section. Looking at the supplied plans, the front baffle is to be one consistent width from end to end. Does it matter? Or more directly, what is the correct layout?

I need to convert the Spanish/metric instructions into a format that will work for me. Planning on using kreg pocket screws to secure sides/top of sealed chambers, then rabbiting the backs and attaching that way.

X-Voce cut list in English

Bottom: 36" x 14 1/4"
Sides: 7" x 14 1/4"
Back Panels: 7" x 7"
Top Panels: 8 1/2" x 14 1/4"
Baffle: 36" x 8.5"


I used this _exactly_ to build mine.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 10 Jun 2021, 03:36 am
Yeah the measurements in the original AV cabinet are all in Metric, so the cuts and spacing arent 1:1

I sent Danny a new cut sheet thats in English and more similar to the current X-Series pages, but I still need to adjust some woofer spacing on the front page before we can get it up on the website, tho my PC isn't currently up and running, so i can't make the necessary changes until the rest of my stuff arrives in the next few days.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 10 Jun 2021, 07:14 am
Yeah the measurements in the original AV cabinet are all in Metric, so the cuts and spacing arent 1:1

I sent Danny a new cut sheet thats in English and more similar to the current X-Series pages, but I still need to adjust some woofer spacing on the front page before we can get it up on the website, tho my PC isn't currently up and running, so i can't make the necessary changes until the rest of my stuff arrives in the next few days.

I got some plans from Danny for the X-Voce, along with some corrections he wanted to make.  As I'm considering local CNC router cutting for the flat packs for my proposed builds - just waiting for quotes (because y'know, COVID), I've been using drawings as a starting point - I had to make adjustments to the PDF.  I edited it like this....

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225450)

And, yes, I'm going to have to adjust back from imperial to metric.

Hope this helps.  I also deleted the binding post cut-out (not shown) as I want to go with tube connectors.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 10 Jun 2021, 12:30 pm
Yup that's the one I was working on. Jut need to fix the values, like what is shown in your pic. :P
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: GaryPC on 25 Jun 2021, 04:28 pm
I just received X-Voce dimensions from GR last night they are a little different that noted in this thread.
The top and sides are 14.75" and 14.0" respectively. This could just be the way they are assembled?

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226003)

Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: hawkeyejw on 25 Jun 2021, 04:42 pm
Looks like they have it so that the side panels have a 14" depth, and the top panels are 14.75" so that they cover the rear panels.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Chewbacca on 25 Jun 2021, 05:22 pm
I would almost think you would want to run the sides @ 14.75 also. Then the back @ 8" (or 7.25" and your inside panels @ 14.75" as well) This eliminates the need for perfectly finishing the butt joins on the sides and and inside cutout side, and definitely run the bottom inside the sides. Although you already will have to finish the sides due to seeing the top edge and front edge on the sides.  BUT, it is two less edges per side that won't need the be "perfect". I assume you're just gluing this together? But if not, you would most likely need to put the top/s on last as you'd need to use pocket screws, or a cleat/L bracket to secure the panels together from the inside, or just go with glue and clamps and call it a day... a Titebond or equivalent should be PLENTY strong ofc. A saying in the woodworking industry is "screws are just there to secure the panels together until the glue dries"... or something like that :lol:
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Chewbacca on 25 Jun 2021, 05:24 pm
Unless you're veneering! Then you should just cap the backs as the veneer will cover all the butt joints... Sorry, haven't read the whole thread :duh:
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: hawkeyejw on 25 Jun 2021, 05:36 pm
I would almost think you would want to run the sides @ 14.75 also. Then the back @ 8" (or 7.25" and your inside panels @ 14.75" as well) This eliminates the need for perfectly finishing the butt joins on the sides and and inside cutout side, and definitely run the bottom inside the sides. Although you already will have to finish the sides due to seeing the top edge and front edge on the sides.  BUT, it is two less edges per side that won't need the be "perfect". I assume you're just gluing this together? But if not, you would most likely need to put the top/s on last as you'd need to use pocket screws, or a cleat/L bracket to secure the panels together from the inside, or just go with glue and clamps and call it a day... a Titebond or equivalent should be PLENTY strong ofc. A saying in the woodworking industry is "screws are just there to secure the panels together until the glue dries"... or something like that :lol:

This is the way I built mine so that the rough edges of the MDF were on the back of the speaker.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 26 Jun 2021, 03:36 am
My thought when designing this version of the cabinet plans was to make it easy to clamp the front panel to the back all at once.

The original plans were all in either Spanish or Portuguese and in metric. And they also used 45°cuts for all joints..
Which i assume is a bit more difficult for people to work with or cut without a table saw.

I still need to fix a couple measurements on the front page,
But i still haven't had a chance to set up my PC to be able to fix it.
Doesn't help that the starter in my car just died today, and I dont have any of my displays in the apartment yet...  :duh:

Hope that explains things a bit! :P
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: hawkeyejw on 26 Jun 2021, 07:09 am
No worries Hobbs, there’s plenty of ways to approach it and the new version you drew up is definitely easier than the original with all the 45 degree cuts. Theronbo’s cut list looks like the translation I did which is pretty close to yours. Thankfully it’s a really easy build once you cut the panels, much easier than the statics!
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: GaryPC on 27 Jun 2021, 04:55 pm
I'm gluing up with biscuits today, I imagine the latest MDF configuration will be really good for gluing and it does stand well for set up
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226141)
.
For several reasons including durability, concern for lost volume, and it didn't come with the kit, I do not want to use No Rez anywhere on this.  If there is any significant resonances I would much rather put in extra bracing or layers of MDF.  Perhaps a 1-1/2" dowel across the center between woof inside walls would stiffen the whole assembly? 
Making the the woofer tops removable perhaps using screws will allow No Rez etc. etc. to be added later.   
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: corndog71 on 27 Jun 2021, 05:34 pm
No Rez does not affect volume.  It’s more effective than you think at reducing cabinet resonance.  Danny designs well-braced cabinets AND uses No Rez.  I can understand some hesitation perhaps due to the cost but after adding No Rez to several speakers including ones not by Danny, I can confirm it’s worth using.  For just the sealed cabinets alone you would probably only need 1 sheet.  The OB section doesn’t really need it.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: mlundy57 on 27 Jun 2021, 05:53 pm
No Rez does not affect volume.  It’s more effective than you think at reducing cabinet resonance.  Danny designs well-braced cabinets AND uses No Rez.  I can understand some hesitation perhaps due to the cost but after adding No Rez to several speakers including ones not by Danny, I can confirm it’s worth using.  For just the sealed cabinets alone you would probably only need 1 sheet.  The OB section doesn’t really need it.

Nor does the OB section need additional bracing since it isn't pressurized like the boxed sections are.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: GaryPC on 27 Jun 2021, 10:52 pm
That is good to understand about No Rez not taking volume. I understand then that it adds mass (and maybe something else such as elasticity of that mass?) to the MDF walls which dampens excitement of the walls. I should learn about cabinet wall resonances, but it is hard to imagine such short walls resonating much?
 I am not sure if this is correct logic, but if the No Rez also does not add volume, then there would be no point to adding material to the woofer box. If there was good reason GRR would have included it in the design in the first place. For that matter I guess I should follow their expertise and get some No Rez at least for the boxes. But not before some further stiffening :D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 2 Jul 2021, 01:04 am
More newbie questions ....

As an update, I've placed my order for both the X-Voce and X-Statik kits.  Yah!  :thumb:

However, I'm still see-sawing on ordering the beautiful CNC kits as well, trying to source them locally or building the cabinets myself  :o

As we seem to be going through a bit of a kitchen renovation boom here in Melbourne, getting anyone interested in making some CNC cut cabinets for me is proving to be 'challenging' ..... and I actually do fancy the idea of having a go at building them myself, although with fingers that are all thumbs, it could be an 'interesting' experience.

With that said, I've always read that the tweeter should ideally be at ear height relative to the listening position, for the best experience.  Therefore, as the X-Voce is a centre channel speaker, typically sitting below the TV, is there any benefit to be had from tilting the frame to better 'aim' the tweeter at ear-height?    If I'm going to build an X-Voce cabinet, I could cut the end sections and front baffle to build in a slight incline (~10deg).

Any one have any thoughts or direct experience?  Maybe the vertical axis response is so good, that this is unnecessary over-kill, but I figured I would ask.

Also, from a woofer wiring point of view, is there any benefit to be had from placing the XO behind the middle open baffle area of the X-Voce, as all the wiring runs would then be of equal length (I've assumed they are wired in parallel)?

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Vince in TX on 2 Jul 2021, 01:11 am
...
With that said, I've always read that the tweeter should ideally be at ear height relative to the listening position, for the best experience.  Therefore, as the X-Voce is a centre channel speaker, typically sitting below the TV, is there any benefit to be had from tilting the frame to better 'aim' the tweeter at ear-height?    If I'm going to build an X-Voce cabinet, I could cut the end sections and front baffle to build in a slight incline (~10deg).

...

That’s exactly what I’m doing with mine, tilting it up so that it not only hits my ear level, but the ear level of the back row which is on a 12” riser.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226048)
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: GaryPC on 2 Jul 2021, 01:39 am
I have an X-Voce going in within 6-9” of ear height so won’t be concerned about tilting it, but if I were I would not build it into the cabinet as a few years later who knows my layout may change. Except perhaps to drop a couple of t-nuts in the bottom front corners of the open baffle area so I could thread 3/8” bolts to create the lift. And I would probably add that only if and when I needed it.
I’ve just cut my own MDF and am doing the same for the Sub Kit #4 this weekend. I cut the X-Voce per the plans which I think are good and they do stack up nicely for clamping. But I will be adding a bunch of biscuits.  For the sub I am cutting a bunch of 1/4” rabbets, which are faster easier stronger and more accurate than biscuits, so if I were doing the X-Voce again I would do rabbets.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 2 Jul 2021, 02:49 am
That’s exactly what I’m doing with mine, tilting it up so that it not only hits my ear level, but the ear level of the back row which is on a 12” riser.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226048)

Thanks Vince.  That's an awesome home cinema build taking place.  Love the servo subs all ready to go, as well.

What rears do you have, as a matter of interest?

@GaryPC - I'd prefer the rabbet / dado route as well.  For the X-Voce I'm not a fan of the inset front baffle MDF piece on the CNC kit and would prefer, a bit like what Vince has, a single piece front baffle that I can do in 25mm MDF with a veneer.  I was thinking to cut dado rails into the back of the baffle panel to help with strength and alignment.

Anyway, still blue-skying the design in my head - I sure there will be more brain f*arts in the weeks and months to come.  :roll:

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: GaryPC on 2 Jul 2021, 03:41 am
I would also rabbet the front baffle and probably every joint as it provides a solid edge to align during clamping.  I just noticed the tweeter treatment in Vince’s very nice setup. I’ve already routed the tweeter regress 0.18” and I thought the reason for it was to align or better-align the the tweeter with mid range units. I assumed it was something to do with time alignment.  I’ll have to go back and do some more reading and YouTube watching to understand what is happening here  :popcorn:
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Vince in TX on 2 Jul 2021, 08:54 pm
....

What rears do you have, as a matter of interest?

...

Temporarily I’m using the Klipsch speakers I was using for surrounds in my game room, but I have four A/V-1RS speakers on order from Danny.   I’m hoping they get here Within the next couple of weeks because I should be done with the servo subs by then.   
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 5 Jul 2021, 01:05 am
Thanks for the info, Vince.

I also got notification from UPS that my X-Voce and X-statik kits are about to ship.

Another step on the journey.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 5 Jul 2021, 01:43 am
Yup! Only reason it didnt get out sooner was cuz we ran out of Miflex caps earlier this week until Danny could get more from SonicCraft
It should be picked up on Tuesday. Since UPS isnt taking deliveries tomorrow.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 5 Jul 2021, 10:13 am
Thanks for the info Hobbs.  I'm very excited to see what's in the boxes... Lots of 'firsts' on this... First time I've ever built a speaker, let alone one of this standard.  Also first OB of any type I've ever owned.

Happy 4th July and all that too all our US cousins.  Enjoy the public holiday on Monday.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 11 Jul 2021, 01:49 am
Ah, more questions.  Hopefully someone in this illustrious crowd can provide this beginner with some insights?

I've been working through planning out my X-Voce build.  The drawings provided, reference internal braces, but don't show where they should be installed. 

As I'm planning to use 18mm MDF for the cabinet, which is slightly thinner than the 0.75" recommended (~1mm thinner), I think the braces are going to be 'necessary', not 'recommended'.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226754)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226755)

Can anyone provide some guidance on where they should be installed?

I'm also assuming that I can easily access the X/O from the woofer hole, so don't need to make any arrangements to make the X/O easily accessible - like making the tube-connector rear wall removable?

David



Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: hawkeyejw on 11 Jul 2021, 03:31 am
1 MM is pretty small, I think you would be fine either way. There aren’t any big wide surfaces on the boxes really. Are you using no-Rez?
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 11 Jul 2021, 07:23 am
Thanks hawkeyejw.  Yep.  Upgraded crossovers and no-rez has been included in the order.  Expected sometime next week - less than 2 weeks for 80+lbs from USA to Oz is pretty incredible.

Also, is there any benefit is coating the inside of the cabinet with duratex?  I'm hoping to do the front baffle and box rears in veneer and the rest in duratex, trying to achieve a smooth but hard wearing coat, so will be using a high napp roller and avoid some of the textured stuff.

Got to make the X-statiks and this pretty for the her in doors.

Should be fun.

D
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 11 Jul 2021, 01:16 pm
The only benefit to coating the inside surfaces is to prevent issues if you live in a regularly humid environment.
That said, the texture from duratex will make it difficult for the No Rez to properly stick to the inside surfaces.

A better option would be Zinner "Seal Coat" (dewaxed shellac) or some other oil or alcohol based sealant.
Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: dryan01uk on 15 Jul 2021, 04:43 am
Yah!  Christmas in July - some boxes arrived from UPS today.  All full of bits and pieces for my X-Voce and X-Statiks.  The boxes at the back are full of no-rez - I was surprised how heavy it is!

Fantastic packaging from Danny and co.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226958)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226970)

I've tried rotating the image, but it seems to be 'stuck' sideways.  It also looks like I 'scored' an original X-Voce X-O, so am going to need some hand-holding to update the board with the latest cross-over upgrades.  That's a long way away though.  Next step, pulling together all bits and pieces I need to get started.

These, along with a kitchen renovation, should keep me busy until the real Xmas!

D

Title: Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 15 Jul 2021, 12:36 pm
Yeah, we still have a bunch of original X-Voce crossovers
Hence why the kit is still so cheap. :P