AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Peter J on 9 Nov 2011, 04:46 am
-
Visited daughter and family this summer. Sound system in living room consists of some computer speakers hooked to an old receiver under television. That got me to thinkin', and I decided that they need speakers :wink:
I've been jonesing to build something and the deals Danny has on the AV123 stuff seemed like naturals, so I'm building a pair of X-SLS Encores for mains, X-CS Encore for center and Danny's own AV-1RSs filling in the rear.
I thought I'd loosely document the build 'cuz I know y'all like pictures :)
Started with the SLSes, here I've got sides and center braces already glued up and am glueing back on.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53557)
And a head-on view
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53558)
More later as progress is made.
-
That'll be a nice rig. :thumb:
-
That will be a super gift. I am not sure why Danny still has any x-ls kits at that price.
-
Wow, are you looking to adopt :green:
-
That will be a super gift. I am not sure why Danny still has any x-ls kits at that price.
Did I say it was a gift? :wink: They have three young boys and plenty on their plates so this is a family Christmas gift from my wife and I. There was a time when I made many gifts, but that faded. Now I hope to invoke that tradition once again.
Not a total surprise, I did run the idea by them to make sure that I wasn't building a pink elephant that they had to parade around when we visit.
-
Wow, are you looking to adopt :green:
Hmmm, that depends.....
-
More progress....
I'm prefitting crossover with front off to make life easier when I'm working through driver holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53613)
Layout on X-CS
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53614)
Ready for glue-up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53615)
Lotta clamps for such a small box
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53616)
All braced up and ready for back, I prefit a pad for crossover there on top. Danny, I gotta say, this thing is a little tank!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53617)
More soon...
-
Love it and thanks for the pictures.
You do great work.
Neil
-
Wow, what a nice job!
-
Peter, Ive been watching this build and i think your coming along great with it! Good to see your useing your bisquits on this, I think alot of people over look just how usefull and strong bisquits are and can be utillized in building speakers. Keep going man, were ready for the next phase. R.K.
-
Peter, Ive been watching this build and i think your coming along great with it! Good to see your useing your bisquits on this, I think alot of people over look just how usefull and strong bisquits are and can be utillized in building speakers. Keep going man, were ready for the next phase. R.K.
Funny story about biscuits and me Randall. First cabinet shop job I had (1974), I discovered a box stuffed under a bench labeled Lamello Minnillo. Clueless as to what it was, I asked my boss about it. He showed me how it worked and I was hooked...despite the goofy name.
At the time Lamello was the only company making them and they were spendy...way beyond my means at the time. It wasn't until many years later that other manufacturers jumped in and I bought the newly introduced Dewalt copy, the hot ticket at the time. I was elated, but secretly would like to own a Lamello. You know how it is, there's nothing like the first time!
-
Pressing on while I've got a little time...
And now a little quiz; what is this and what's it for?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53646)
Cut the port and binding post cup holes on back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53647)
Stuffing bottom half of SLS to save me doing it all through the driver cutouts, will still need to stick pieces on backside of front baffle after assembly
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53648)
Here I taped a temporary cover on brace so I don't fill the bottom with swarf when I cut driver holes after baffle goes on. Feeding my OC tendencies here, something about sawdust on my No Rez...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53649)
-
hmm...
How about a boat drain for a sand compartment?
-
hmm...
How about a boat drain for a sand compartment?
Ding, ding, ding! You got it.
I'll be shipping to Michigan and figured they could fill them with sand or not, but really didn't want to pay to ship sand. Might be a good ballast system too, I bet they get crashed into a few times in their life...grandsons are rambunctious!
-
Peter, I dont own one but would love to have one. As far as Im concerned there is no other bisquit joiner maker that can compare to the lamello. I have the dewalt and have used the porter cable both are about the same as far as accuracy and reliability but when going head to head w/ the lamello..... it makes them both look like toys. A friend of mine has a lamello and Ive been trying to buy it off of him for yrs. I just cant seem to bring myself to spend $800 plus to get the setup I want. So for now the dewalt will have to do. R.K.
-
Some progress today, getting close to veneering.
Center and rears sanded and ready for veneer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53785)
Block bottom corners of SLS for strength
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53786)
Glueing on Baltic Birch plate so there's some meat for spike inserts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53787)
And here's the finished bottom
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53788)
-
I was enthralled with the concept when biscuit joiners came out. I've have a Lamello junior for many years now. Solid workhorse that just keeps going and going.
-
Here I taped a temporary cover on brace so I don't fill the bottom with swarf when I cut driver holes after baffle goes on. Feeding my OC tendencies here, something about sawdust on my No Rez...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53649)
Hi Peter
Noob question.
From what I understood from the above post, is there a particular benefit of having the driver cut outs done after cabinet assembly?
Just trying to understand bits and pieces of building a tower speaker before I take the plunge.
Thanks
Gijo
-
Hi Peter
Noob question.
From what I understood from the above post, is there a particular benefit of having the driver cut outs done after cabinet assembly?
Just trying to understand bits and pieces of building a tower speaker before I take the plunge.
Thanks
Gijo
Gijo, a couple of benefits in this particular case. I'm using a vacuum bag to apply some of the veneer and it stretches the heck out of the bag as it trys to conform to a big hole...smaller ones not so much.
The other reason is getting the depth of the tweeter flange flush with cabinet, and in this case the binding post cup. If I cut holes after veneer, no guessing as to the thickness the veneer is adding to the recess.
I've done it other ways with success, as have others. I try and think the process through before I start...hate having those coulda, woulda, shoulda moments.
Stay tuned, it will become clearer as I progress.
-
Don't forget to put at least a 3/8" radius on the back side of the woofer holes. This is very important.
-
Don't forget to put at least a 3/8" radius on the back side of the woofer holes. This is very important.
Thanks Danny, got it in the mix... will use 1/2" roundunder after I cut holes.
Onward with veneering. The pics show first of two plys that will go on surfaces with exposed MDF edges...helps to eliminate seam telegraphing later.
Raw Veneer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53907)
This is a jig to put a straight edge on veneer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53908)
After straight edging, bookmatch those edges and temporarily secure with masking tape
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53909)
Veneer tape on face
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53910)
Vacuum bag with SLS staged
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53911)
Glue rolled on
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53912)
Bookmatch aligned
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53913)
Into the bag, this is where it starts getting fun!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53914)
Fully clamped. I can get around 22 inches of mercury vacuum at this altitude. If I recall, that's around 1300 psi, but don't quote me on that. It flattens out that wavy veneer like a pancake, it never ceases to amaze me! Guess I'm easily amused...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53915)
Here's the other SLS after trimming an a little scraping
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53916)
And the other side after some sanding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53917)
-
Nice. Wish I had access to a vacuum bag like that.
:thumb:
-
Nice shop! How do you trim the raw veneer? I had problems when I tried that.
-
Nice shop! How do you trim the raw veneer? I had problems when I tried that.
Thanks, I dreamed about it for years prior to building it.
As to veneer trimming, I'll assume you mean after veneer is applied. I use a router with a specific cutter...solid carbide 1/4" down spiral flush trimming like this;
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53938)
I've tried all kinds of flush trimmers and for most things this is my go-to cutter. A little spendy but it's performance is just superior. I also use non guided spirals for hole cutting. If you haven't tried them, I can almost guarantee you'll like it. Be sure to get down spiral...up would want to chip veneer.
If you were asking about cutting raw veneer in general, three tools in the arsenal; sharp utility knife, heavy scissors and handheld veneer saw. Which one is sorta dictated by what I'm doing.
-
Been glueing veneer so there's been not much to see...just more of what I already posted. Now that veneering's done I'm moving on to adding some psuedo-inlay trim.
Here's some mahogany hardwood I've glued black cabinet liner onto.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54237)
Then cut into strips,
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54238)
After cutting into strips, I glued cabinet liner onto one side of strip and then split to get two 3/8" x 3/8" square slices with liner on two ajacent sides
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54239)
Cut 3/8" x 3/8" rabbet on perimeter of box
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54240)
Cut inlay slices to fit in rabbet and glued in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54241)
Tape off and rough sanded flush. I'll eventually put a 3/8" roundover on these "inlay" corners, but will cut driver holes first.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54242)
Stay tuned for more...
-
Thanks, I dreamed about it for years prior to building it.
As to veneer trimming, I'll assume you mean after veneer is applied. I use a router with a specific cutter...solid carbide 1/4" down spiral flush trimming like this;
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53938)
I've tried all kinds of flush trimmers and for most things this is my go-to cutter. A little spendy but it's performance is just superior. I also use non guided spirals for hole cutting. If you haven't tried them, I can almost guarantee you'll like it. Be sure to get down spiral...up would want to chip veneer.
If you were asking about cutting raw veneer in general, three tools in the arsenal; sharp utility knife, heavy scissors and handheld veneer saw. Which one is sorta dictated by what I'm doing.
Thanks...meant cutting the straight-edge on your jig that you showed earlier. I have a handheld veneer saw or do you use the downward bit?
-
Thanks...meant cutting the straight-edge on your jig that you showed earlier. I have a handheld veneer saw or do you use the downward bit?
Ahhhh, the one thing I didn't cover in my response! You could use the trimmer on that jig, but I've found it faster and a little cleaner to run it on tablesaw with a sharp many-tooth blade. I pull the veneer beyond the edge of the jig by the amount I want to trim off, clamp it down, and run through the saw with fence set at the width of jig...it this case 8".
Doing it this way, the jig will last through entire job, 'cuz I'm not cutting it, just grazing the same side over and over.
Is that helpful? I could take some photos in process if you like.
-
Ahhhh, the one thing I didn't cover in my response! You could use the trimmer on that jig, but I've found it faster and a little cleaner to run it on tablesaw with a sharp many-tooth blade. I pull the veneer beyond the edge of the jig by the amount I want to trim off, clamp it down, and run through the saw with fence set at the width of jig...it this case 8".
Doing it this way, the jig will last through entire job, 'cuz I'm not cutting it, just grazing the same side over and over.
Is that helpful? I could take some photos in process if you like.
Yep - makes sense. Thanks
-
Some more progress...Christmas is looming near!
Getting driver cutouts done and making grills
I made templates for drivers, template hole is 3/32" larger than actual cutout...you'll see why.
Here's the tweeter jig for RS, upside down
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54424)
From beneath, sitting on RS
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54425)
Here's top view, I used a screw to temporarily fasten to cabinet, hole is within the woofer cutout
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54426)
Tweeter flange cut
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54427)
Tweeter through-hole, same bit, different template guide
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54428)
Notches for connectors...and a mistake...can you spot it?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54429)
I got indicisive on grill design, three iterations to get where I wanted, good thing I like woodworking, huh?
Here's the first go, 1/4" material, built up perimeter. Need 1/2" clearance off cabinet surface to accomodate woofer height
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54430)
Second brainstorm, 1/2" material, different design
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54431)
Changed my mind and went to something more squared off, just didn't like the way the roundy one looked. 1/2" material, I'm recessing back for staples and mounting clip flange.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54432)
Front & back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54433)
Using grill as guide for drilling cabinet holes for sockets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54434)
And the clips, different then I've used before, I think I like them
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54435)
If these were for me, I'd have recessed magnets, but I'm thinkin' the magnetic grills would become a curiousity for inquisitive grandsons and squashing the tweeter dome would be next in line. What is it about domes and kids?
-
Something to keep in mind....
Surrounding the tweeter with a grill frame will cause significant diffraction that will alter the response. Try to stay as far away from the tweeter as possible with the grills frame and put a large radius on the inside edge to minimize reflections.
-
Something to keep in mind....
Surrounding the tweeter with a grill frame will cause significant diffraction that will alter the response. Try to stay as far away from the tweeter as possible with the grills frame and put a large radius on the inside edge to minimize reflections.
Gees I had this all response all done and got logged out 'cuz I'm a slow typer.
Danny, I know it's not ideal, it's those surface mount woofers that throw a wrench in the gears :wink:
There was method in the madness. Since the tweeter to grill clearance is somewhat dictated by proximity to end of cabinet, I reasoned that a partial surround would not be a huge issue...am I kidding myself?
There's still possibility to round over some of that opening. You're saying on the side nearest the cabinet (inside)? I would have thought the opposite.
Fortunatly the recipients are not audio geeks. I'll make an effort to do something different on mains and center.
-
Just make the hole around the tweeter larger. Then put a radius on the inside edge. You want to remove as much flat reflective surface away for the tweeter as possible.
-
If I understand correctly, Danny is referring to the additional frame that Peter made. Since the tweeter would sit into a recess after fitting this frame, the sound from tweeter would get diffracted. Is that what you are saying Danny?
-
If I understand correctly, Danny is referring to the additional frame that Peter made. Since the tweeter would sit into a recess after fitting this frame, the sound from tweeter would get diffracted. Is that what you are saying Danny?
Yes.
-
Some more progress, nearing the end of woodwork, will get into finishing soon.
All drivers fitted, Grill frames cut out. A few more pics, did anyone catch the mistake I referred to in last post about tweeter cutout?
Here's the improved grill frame for RS
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54537)
I cut the thru hole for binding post cup before veneering, saved rabbet cut for after
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54538)
Rounded inside of all woofer holes. The big base on router keeps it from tipping into hole...makes life easier.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54539)
SLS drivers fitted
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54540)
Onto grills. I wanted the grills to not cover the black line which made for some close tolerances and skinny frames. I also beveled the outside edge to reduce the visual bulk of the 1/2" frame thickness. I extended the SLS grills down some for looks.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54541)
Needed to do a little clearancing to get things to fit
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54542)
Here you can see why
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54543)
And grill for CS
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54544)
And finally the finished frames
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54545)
Here's what corners look like after roundover.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54546)
-
Man can I get you to build my next set of speakers for me?? That's some amazing woodworking! Keep it up!!
Scott
-
Yeah, I like the grill frames better now.
-
Yeah, I like the grill frames better now.
Danny, somewhere in my memory I stored the concept of imagining the radiation pattern of drivers expanding like a bubble from the driver forward, like blowing a bubble with gum. Sorta simplistic but is it accurate in your experience?
-
Man can I get you to build my next set of speakers for me?? That's some amazing woodworking! Keep it up!!
Scott
Scott, it sounds goofy, but the grill frames were one of the most challenging parts of this build, given the constraints of original design and my desires.
FWIW, I've found projects like this satisfy the artisan in me, but it's also why I expanded my horizons into other areas, the actual time spent is way out of line with people's expectations. I'm a little of a throwback in a CNC world, I'm afraid.
-
Scott, it sounds goofy, but the grill frames were one of the most challenging parts of this build, given the constraints of original design and my desires.
FWIW, I've found projects like this satisfy the artisan in me, but it's also why I expanded my horizons into other areas, the actual time spent is way out of line with people's expectations. I'm a little of a throwback in a CNC world, I'm afraid.
I'm sure the grills were tough. I just built a center and made a grill for it and while its not finished yet (still need to pull the grill cloth on, it was definitely a challenge.
A CNC is nice but there's definitely something therapeutic about working with wood and building stuff on your own. Very nice work!
Scott
-
Danny, somewhere in my memory I stored the concept of imagining the radiation pattern of drivers expanding like a bubble from the driver forward, like blowing a bubble with gum. Sorta simplistic but is it accurate in your experience?
The radiation pattern varies with frequency but is more like a rock dropped into a pond.
Any tall or flat surface sticking up on the edges of the speakers baffle are a problem. If the edges are curved then the effect of the grill frame is lessened considerably.
-
Moving on...
The last of the woodwork... inserts for cones on SLS
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54698)
I'm not crazy about dark stains in general, but it's in fashion now and what daughter wanted, so I'll make the most of it. We have an old mahogany piano that I'm using as reference.
I started with a non-pigmented dye for base color.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54699)
And followed up with a custom mixed wiping stain left over from a recent job
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54700)
Turned out a little cool to my eye and could stand to lighten color depth a little, so I mixed some lemon yellow toner into clear stain base to warm it up some and gave everything two wipe on/off coats. Wiping over pigmented stain has the side effect of removing some of the previous color, so it lightens things a little.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54701)
Here's a shot of rears to better see some of the progression. Left is dye only and right is after staining
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54703)
Here's center and rears after the yellow treatment
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54704)
Next up will be sealer and lacquer.
-
Man those look good!
-
Man those look good!
Yeah no kidding! AV123 always had great finishes but this is really taking these guys to a whole new level. Very cool!!
-
Onto finishing now.
Anybody tired of looking at pictures yet?
I'll follow all the way through if there's interest.
In the raw, in the booth
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54816)
Three coats of sealer, sand after coat 1 and coat 3
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54817)
The dusty part
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54818)
Three coats of lacquer, sand between coat two and three
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54819)
Out of the booth...some curing time
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54820)
Next on the list will be rubbing and buffing the lacquer, speaker assembly and grill cloth. Shall I keep going?
-
Oh yeah. We love the pics!
-
Love the pics, keep posting the progression of the build and finish.
-
Wow keep'em coming! :thumb:
-
Wow keep'em coming! :thumb:
Dang those look stunning! Keep up the good work. Is that booth at your house??
-
Is that booth at your house??
Oh man, I wish... I'd almost give up --- for it. But sadly no, it's in a friend's body shop not far from our house. This booth was his dream...it's incredible to work in. Even has bake capability, but with a 1,500,000 btu dedicated furnace, it eats large quantities of natural gas. Gas pipe's as big as my arm!
He got so jazzed when he saw these, he wants me to make him some. Nothing to power them with, knows little about home theater... doesn't even have a DVD player. Said he'd just put them in his living room and look at them...pretty funny.
-
Nice work. Keep the pictures coming.
-
You've got my vote! Keep those pix coming! R.K.
-
Onward we go then, y'all!
Moving right along to some details that I imagine nobody will care about but me...painting bottom of SLS and back of RS. My ocd compels me...I'm powerless :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54988)
Remember the boat plug? See how nice it looks there now with the paint. The bugs that crawl under it will appreciate the view, I'm sure...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54989)
And now grills. I staple 'em, not a grill gluer, I guess
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54990)
Wrap around opposite side pull a little tension in fabric. This is Parts Express's better grill cloth.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54991)
Tension, staple, tension, staple, tension, staple around and around till they're like this:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54992)
Trim it with razor blade and in this case added the grill clips. FWIW, I broke several of these pegs before I figured out the holes are just too small. I drilled 'em out a smidgen which worked better on the Baltic Birch. Might work ok with what they call for on MDF.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55005)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54993)
Here's my cut and buff supplies. I shot these with satin lacquer, so not looking for super glossy finish, just want to get smooth and protected. I knock off any overspray with 0000 steel wool and then buff with white scotch brite.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54994)
After the scotch brite I put a coat of wax on mostly just for protection. Although it does bring the gloss up a little that will dull back down with time and use.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54995)
Final result
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54996)
And another
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54997)
The block off that I taped in earlier comes out
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54998)
I let the No Rez cover these holes untill now, keeps crap out...and you know by now I like my No Rez pure...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54999)
Crossover goes in for last time
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55000)
Hooked up the binding post plate
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55001)
Drivers get installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55002)
And an arty shot, SLS's on bench, one with grill on, one naked, and if you look above you see another Danny design.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55003)
I hooked 'em up, turned on the amp, and the magic happened. The whole shop went into a foggy haze... it was surreal :o
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55004)
go figure...
-
Light years before I could dream of building something close. That finish is really something else. :thumb:
You really ought to go professional...
Gijo
-
Your completed speakers look very nice! Very professional looking. Also, thanks for posting pictures for everyone to see. Great job! :thumb:
-
Simply incredible.
-
Thanks for the compliments. I did go back and edit my post a little...it was late last night and it showed!
Although I have a great time building stuff like this, there is much pleasure in sharing it as well...both here and ultimately with dear daughter and family. And since I won't be leaving any stacks of cash when I leave this earth, I guess it's my legacy.
I'll post a few more pics as I get the rest completed and perhaps a summation of what I'd do differently next time. I'll be happy to fill in any blanks I've left.
Best of the holidays to everyone.
-
I enjoyed following this build and certainly learned a few things. In particular, I never felt proud about my speaker grills -- they look fine on the speaker but were nothing to write home about when you take them off and look at the backside. This thread has given me some hints to make my next pair look a bit neater and more professional. Thanks!
-
So Dad, do you need my address to send them to for Christmas?
Beautiful work and thanks for taking time to share the process with us :thumb:
Tom
-
Wow
Those look incredible. Formidible woodworking skills :drool:
Thanks for showing how it is done.
-
Just finished all today, so I thought I'd wrap this up.
SLS and CS crossovers were on printed circuit board via AV123. RSs needed assembly. Long and skinny so it fits on floor of cabinet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55187)
Crossover board ready for component mounting
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55188)
Soldered and ready for hot melt glue
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55189)
This shows wall cleat setup
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55190)
Driver soldering, you can see crossover and No Rez
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55191)
Giving them all a sound check and a little break-in before I crate them up to ship.
I hope it makes a nice addition to their home.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55192)
If I were doing over (and I might, I built another set along side these), I'd finish a little differently. I tried something I haven't done before; grain filling with a high build sealer as opposed to conventional grain filler. It worked OK, and is actually something I'll use in the future, but using both together would work better, I think.
My black faux inlays got kinda lost in the dark stain, so that was a step I could have ommited and used hardwood only. They would show up better with a lighter finish. Some day I want to try red inlays.
In any project I always learn something in the way of method or technique, which, for me, is how any craft is honed. Honestly, if I were to consider the time spent to build these, I don't know that I couldn't have purchased something completed for similar cost, but that's the world of DIY, I suppose. I get a warm fuzzy knowing that they're the only ones like this and my hands made them.
There's a saying I ran across some time ago. I can't attribute the author, but since this is partially how I make my living, I like it. "By hammer and hand all things do stand". I should also tip my hat to Danny, who over the years has honed his craft into something to be envied. If it weren't for his efforts, my skills would be diminished.
Enough of the philosophy. Success to all you speaker builders reading this!
-
Great work. What did you finish those N3 TLs (assume that is what they are) in the background with? They look sweet.
-
Great work. What did you finish those N3 TLs (assume that is what they are) in the background with? They look sweet.
Those are actually Northcreek Rhythms, built many years ago. Northcreek used to sell kits. They're waterfall Bubinga finished in many coats of lacquer, probably 12 or 15, I just kept going till I liked how it looked.
They were filled with lighter colored grain filler and wet sanded between every 2nd or 3rd coat, probably ending up at 800 or 1000 grit then buffed with automotive compounds. Some of those coats would have been tinted with red toner.
It's sort of an old school way of finishing, too time consuming for production work. Probably spanned a month or so all told. Great finishes take time, but newer products like the sealer mentioned earlier offer some pretty cool ways to achieve results quicker.
-
What a great thread!!! Thanks for sharing all of your hard work. How did they like their new home?
-
What a great thread!!! Thanks for sharing all of your hard work. How did they like their new home?
Thanks, I think they're happy, daughter tells me she has music on most of the day. The rears live next to centers on TV stand for now...nobody wants to fish the wires through attic to rear wall...wish I was closer, I'd do it for them.
-
I'm resurrecting this because it's essentially the same speaker setup with a different finishing twist.
When I originally built these for daughter and family, I fabricated a second set alongside them to the point of final finish 'cuz I had some ideas about a wild finish I wanted to try. In the meantime, y'all might remember the desktop speakers which I completed in a sort of modern look, which I'm fond of. You could see that here if you're interested
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103789.0
This got me to thinkin' more about how most speakers look. I'm a wood guy and I like wood, but the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to design and build a contemporary styled setup. This will document that and perhaps shed some light on some finer construction points I neglected in the first build.
First thing was to do a design study and see if my mental image looked good in the real world.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64550)
I liked the overall look, so I headed that direction. Ready to start laminating
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64552)
Contact adhesive rolled on laminate and box. Over the years I've tried lots of contact glue, this is the best adhesive I've ever tried...rolls on like paint and if it has a down side, it's that it takes a while to dry for assembly.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64553)
Dowels to keep the two surfaces from touching while aligning
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64554)
Like this
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64555)
Laminate roller to roll it out
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64556)
Mid-stream assembly, greenish dots are embedded neo magnets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64557)
All laminated and cutting driver holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64558)
Centering bit (Vix bit) for drilling pilot holes for driver screws
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64559)
Add a little countersink to keep screw threads from jacking laminate off surface
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64560)
Bevels routed, I'm using black edge band
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64563)
Trim the edge band
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64565)
Used a black marker to color tweeter recess edge, looks better once mounted
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64566)
Progress
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64567)
-
Is there a roundover on the inside of the woofer cutouts?
Steve
-
Moving on to glass inlay, here I'm cutting recess for tile.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64568)
Inlays set and drying
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64569)
And subsequent grouting
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64570)
Onto some grill details. I prefer grills to be as shallow as possible, but these drivers that sit on top of cabinet present some challenges. I planned these better that the first ones. Here's a shot of grill back relieved for woofer rim
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64571)
Laying out holes for magnets. I position the grill where I want it, drop the magnets onto grill and mark the the hole position. Doing it this way there's no need to be concerned about polarity when installing magnets in cabinet. This random method makes a grill that always oriented right, and if there's pairs of grills, they will be unique to a specific speaker...clear as mud?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64572)
Grills taped in place with riser blocks and wax paper under magnet holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64573)
Magnet holes are drilled oversize so alignment isn't critical
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64574)
System Three T-88 epoxy mixed up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64575)
I waggle a toothpick around it the hole with a glob of epoxy on it. Epoxy flows around magnet and locks it into position.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64578)
Epoxy wont stick to wax paper so it's a no-mess kinda deal.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64577)
Once magnets are glued in, a light sanding on the grills and they get a coat of flat black paint and dry overnight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64579)
More later.
-
Is there a roundover on the inside of the woofer cutouts?
Steve
Yep, 1/2" roundover. Hard to see in the pic, but its there.
-
This is great. Threads like this provide us newbies (as well as verterns) so many helpful tips and techniques. It's really fortunate that we have guys like you that post these threads. AWESOME :thumb:
-
Thanks CaptainHemo, it's my pleasure and welcome aboard!
SLSs done tonight, getting some break-in time in the shop.
Grill frames naked
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64646)
And a couple of vanity shots
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64644)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64645)
-
Wow those are simply stunning!! Seriously ridiculously amazing work. I may commission you to do my next build for you ... Wow!
Scott
-
Wow, the finished speakers look remarkable
-
Those do look really good.
-
I'm usually not a fan of more contemporary looking speakers, but those look fantastic! :thumb:
-
I really like the angled theme throughout. Coming from a novice woodworker, awesome workmanship and creativity.
I will also take the magnet install method for my next build.
Thanks for sharing!
ben
-
All of your speakers look very nice. I especially like the construction and style of your tower speakers. Thanks for all the pictures you posted during the construction process for others to see.
Good job! :thumb:
-
For those interested, we just visited daughter and family (the recipients of first set in this thread) in Michigan, and the rears were still sitting on the TV shelf...unconnected.
I couldn't leave without getting them installed, not because of them but rather my ocd :? Spent a few hours fishing some wire in the attic and walls. Daughter had one requirement that they be equally spaced around what she has on the wall. So here's what I figured out.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67394)
and the fronts, I suggested they put center on top just under TV...it might happen...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67395)
The dark mahogany looks nice in their home. Wasn't completely set up, (exchanging receivers for a better one) before I left, but what little I listened to a football game it added a nice ambiance to the room.
-
Peter,
This was a wonderful build and the significant pictures adds even more to it than usual. Masterful veneering. Thanks for all the great pics.
JP :D
-
Hi all, the second set in this thread is for sale here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115384.new#new
-
Excellent build there, Peter! Tile is a nice touch. And, you're certainly using the corect brand of contact cement and painter's tape :green:
-
Hi all, the second set in this thread is for sale here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115384.new#new
Just replied to your thread. :thumb:
-
I'm the guy on the Indian DIY group who had organised a group buy of GR Research speaker kits. Also, I'm (most probably) the last guy on the group to have taken up the build. Was going through the builds and found that Peter has documented the build of all the speakers that I'm making and documented too well. I have a few queries; hope Danny, Peter or others could comment.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54989)
Doesn't this additional layer of 19mm MDF increase the height thereby altering the response from what's the designer intended?
I'm resurrecting this because it's essentially the same speaker setup with a different finishing twist.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64567)
I can see that the X-SLS are rear ported. I remember reading one of Danny's post where he had stated that the port could be shifted to front too, which is what I too am thinking of to enable me to push the speakers closer to the rear wall. If it could be front ported, I'm wondering where on front should the port be located? Bottom, (Above the space at the bottom for filling the ballast) Top or in the middle!
-
rajesh, I'm happy to read that you have yet to build your kit. I now have company :lol: With that said, I need to get to work on a few project :thumb: Hope it turns out well for you.
-
I'm the guy on the Indian DIY group who had organised a group buy of GR Research speaker kits. Also, I'm (most probably) the last guy on the group to have taken up the build. Was going through the builds and found that Peter has documented the build of all the speakers that I'm making and documented too well. I have a few queries; hope Danny, Peter or others could comment.
Doesn't this additional layer of 19mm MDF increase the height thereby altering the response from what's the designer intended?
I can see that the X-SLS are rear ported. I remember reading one of Danny's post where he had stated that the port could be shifted to front too, which is what I too am thinking of to enable me to push the speakers closer to the rear wall. If it could be front ported, I'm wondering where on front should the port be located? Bottom, (Above the space at the bottom for filling the ballast) Top or in the middle!
Hi rajesh, you dug up an old thread here, glad to know they're of some help still!
To clarify, the reinforcement I added to bottom was plywood, not MDF. I can't imagine the additional 1/2"(12mm) in height would make appreciable differences in speaker performance. One could gain or lose similar amounts in adjustment of the bottom spikes or simply slumping down in your favorite listening chair :)
As to port positioning, I suspect putting it in lowermost area of cabinet (above ballast compartment) would be best, but I'll let Danny speak to that. Also, I know Danny has recommended moving transmission line exit on N3 from rear to front, but unsure if he's mentioned it for this model. My gut says it'd be fine, but best let him confirm.
-
Yeah, plus or minus a little height is no different than variations in seating height.
Moving the port to the front is also fine. Just put in in the same plane just moved to the front panel.
-
Thank you Peter and Danny. I'll take it up accordingly.
@persisting1, just do it. :D
-
As I keep progressing, I'm encountering new challenges. I'm posting them here as this thread has documented the build of all the speakers that I'm building too. Hope OP doesn't mind my posting queries here. :)
I've noted that a few members have made baffle twice as thick as the rest of the box by affixing two 19mm sheets which can loosely be termed as double baffle IMHO. In India, we get only 18 mm sheets. Many members of that Indian group buy have made X-LS speakers with double baffle which I personally consider an overkill. However, since the X-SLS is much longer, I found the double baffle to be a great idea and hence have fabricated the same by affixing two 18 mm sheets. (I've also remembered to do some chamfering of the inner sheet.)
Now my query is, does this double baffle thingy is necessary for the X-CS and A/V 1RS too or would it be an overkill (especially for the A/V 1RS) As per my perception, since the X-CS has two mid-woofers, double baffle may be of some relevance.
Soliciting comments from Danny, Peter and other experts. :D
-
Rajesh, my understanding of "double thick" baffles is that it's another way to damp and stiffen cabinet. The only negative effect I could imagine would be the longer "tunnel" created behind drivers. I suspect it would be no issue on tweeter, more likely with woofer.
Could one hear the difference with thick baffle in this design? I kinda doubt I could, but my hearing's not all that great...funny I chose this hobby, huh? One thing I can tell you about Danny's cabinet designs is that they're well braced, which in and of itself helps to damp the enclosure. Couple that with NoRez and I haven't felt compelled to add to 'em.
All that said, I'd defer to Danny for what effects thick baffle might have on design.
-
Additional baffle layers are not necessary with these designs.
Unlike other types of woofers these woofers do not require additional material to be removed from the baffle to flush mount the driver. Also, the polymer frame is non resonant and will not transmit a resonance to the front panel like most metal frame woofers.
If additional baffle layers are used then it is important to increase the back side radius behind the woofer.
-
Read this thread on my Android phone and thought of replying later as it is too painful to type with my thick fingers and forgot to reply. :duh:
Thanks for the reply Peter & Danny. Wish I had posted the query before fixing the baffles. I could've saved some wood. Nevertheless, it certainly helped in making up my mind with regard to baffles for the Centre and surrounds.
-
If additional baffle layers are used then it is important to increase the back side radius behind the woofer.
I've just finished all the boxes but the back side radius behind the woofer (chamfering) of the towers remains which I intend to do this weekend. That brings another doubt in my mind. Is this chamfering required behind the woofers of X-CS, A/V 1RS and that of the Servo Subwoofer also?
-
I've just finished all the boxes but the back side radius behind the woofer (chamfering) of the towers remains which I intend to do this weekend. That brings another doubt in my mind. Is this chamfering required behind the woofers of X-CS, A/V 1RS and that of the Servo Subwoofer also?
You should always radius the back side of the through hole on all but sub-woofers. The wavelengths that the sub-woofer plays are too long to matter and won't even propagate in the box anyway. However, rounding the edge on a sub-woofer can in some cases prevent air turbulence in that area of the box. So it doesn't hurt.
-
You should always radius the back side of the through hole on all but sub-woofers. The wavelengths that the sub-woofer plays are too long to matter and won't even propagate in the box anyway. However, rounding the edge on a sub-woofer can in some cases prevent air turbulence in that area of the box. So it doesn't hurt.
I was attempting a 45° shaving off at the rear but if it just needs to round off, that would be easier I guess. Let me discuss with my carpenter.
-
I was attempting a 45° shaving off at the rear but if it just needs to round off, that would be easier I guess. Let me discuss with my carpenter.
Rajesh,
To cut the radius after the cabinets are assembled, your carpenter would need this router bit. The photo is from Peter's build.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54539)
-
That's nice of you Lacro. :thumb:
Though in a different league as far as price is concerned, the finish of this Focal Sopra Speakers is so outstanding that I wish I can do the same way of making grills to cover just the drivers. But won't those recesses around the drivers degrade the sound?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d0/6b/71/d06b71017c7e57bb6fe14a857b8fedb3.jpg)
-
The two lower drivers in that speaker are not playing up high enough for there to be any reflection issues off of the recess. The upper one is a mid-bass driver though. So there could be some issues there. And with the grill on there will be some edge reflections (worse) from the edges of the grill frame.
-
Point well taken Danny. Thanks. :thumb:
I can see that the X-SLS are rear ported. I remember reading one of Danny's post where he had stated that the port could be shifted to front too, which is what I too am thinking of to enable me to push the speakers closer to the rear wall.
Moving the port to the front is also fine. Just put in in the same plane just moved to the front panel.
I've noted that a few members have made baffle twice as thick as the rest of the box by affixing two 19mm sheets.
since the X-SLS is much longer, I found the double baffle to be a great idea and hence have fabricated the same by affixing two 18 mm sheets.
I wish I could go with Danny's design in toto. Because I deviated a little, I'm facing new problems, this time regarding placement of the port.
Since I had made a thicker 36 mm baffle, I now realise that if I were to shift the port to the front, the port tube would move out of the box by 18mm (Though the port length per se would remain the same)
Will that have any adverse on the performance of the speaker? If so, I'll proceed with the original design (of keeping the port at the rear)
What say folks?
-
I am not sure what you mean by the port tube moving out of the box.
Unless you are placing the speakers right up against a wall then I would keep the port in the rear.
-
I am not sure what you mean by the port tube moving out of the box.
Unless you are placing the speakers right up against a wall then I would keep the port in the rear.
Since I added 18 more mm on the baffle and since the port has to be now fixed over that additional MDF plank, I described it as port moving out of the box (to the tune of 18mm)
As for the placement, since I do not live in a permanent house as yet, I don't know how they are going to end up with. Hence I wanted to keep the option (of placing it right up against the wall) It's not a deal breaker though. If the port placement on the baffle poses a problem, I would happily settle placing it at the rear.
-
Ah, you are talking about the slot port on the X-SLS version. An additional 18mm length will tune it slightly lower. Add a large flare to it and you'll be almost back to where you were.
-
Peter J,
Old thread, I know... I have been considering a future build- wanting to incorporate laminate at least on the front baffle. I remembered reading this thread of yours years ago that had such great, helpful information on working with plastic laminate and veneer and I just finished reading/reviewing your educational posts again.
Haven't seen posts from you for awhile but if/when you share the pictorial documentation of a build, I will be paying close attention!
Thanks again,
Pete
-
Thanks for the post, Pete. If I sparked your imagination or provided helpful info then, at least for my part, "mission accomplished".
Haven't been building speakers lately, but rather remodeling other's homes and up-fitting my own shop so I can play there more and work on-site less. My interest in speaker building seems to ebb and flow. I guess that describes my whole modus operandi, generally speaking.
Among recent additions to challenge myself with has been a much bigger CNC router. A beast by my standard, but mid-line in the industrial world. The remodel I'm currently nearing completion on was such that I could cut all the kitchen cabs on router. It just amazes this old analog guy what's possible and learning the ins and outs of design software can be both maddening and rewarding. Fortunatly I like learning new stuff!
Even though I haven't building much in the audio world, it' never far from my mind. I have many ideas that I hope to execute and I'll be sure and blog about here if it's of interest. Some may even be audio related :D
-
HI Peter,
If you happen to see this, a couple of questions:
It looked like you put grout on top of the veneer. How did you get it off and get everything polished?
When you positioned the grill magnets, you dropped them on. Are those magnets strong enough to self-align with the magnets you had already embedded in the cabinet? If not, I missed how you aligned the magnets.
Thanks,
Alan
-
Assuming you're looking at the glass tile inlays. Yes, I used conventional cementitious grout, but bear in mind that it was unsanded on top of plastic laminate, not stain & clear on veneer. Thus not a problem to sponge off and polish. I suspect one could do it over stain & clear but I'd mask it off and make sure finish was good and cured, not just dry to touch.
Yes to self alignment, the technique kinda depends on that. Since I did these, even stronger N52 neodymium magnets are commonly available. My current favorites are 1/4" diameter, in either 1/4" or 3/8" length depending on application. Sometimes 3/8" in cabs and 1/4" in grill so they can be slimmer in profile. Don't want to bury to deep in either, but the magnetic force along axis is pretty amazing!
I'm fond of doing grills with the larger hole in grill as shown as alignment is perfect every time and orientation of magnets is not critical. They "self-correct" in a very obvious way. You can see more of the same using N-52s in my X-Otica build thread.
-
Wow, just went through this thread again and MY GOODNESS that's some amazing work Peter! Seriously, bowing down!!
Scott
-
Thanks for clarifying about the magnets, Peter.
One more: How did you do that black corner/edge trim? I am starting a set of speakers that the designer told me I should rout a 1/2” 45 degree bevel on after veneering. He suggested I stain the exposed plywood to match/contrast the veneer before final finishing. I’m happy to do that, and it might look great. But your build showed me possibly another option, but I have no idea what that material is and I don’t know if it’s possible to lay it on and shave it clean after veneer. Can you shed some light on that idea?
Thanks again,
Alan
-
The black onlay is preglued edgebanding. I ironed it on then shaved off excess with single edge razor. Made flush with file. It was fussy.
I'm a little confused though, are you using wood veneer or plastic laminate? IMHO, the edge of ply, even Baltic Birch will look less than good. Too porous to finish well unless grain filled or something similar. But I don't know what the expectation is.
If using wood veneer, one can inlay square hardwood strips in the edges, veneer over them and then cut bevel, exposing underlying hardwood.
-
Hi Peter,
This is what the speakers would look like without veneering. I’m not sure how the plywood ends were treated, but it looks pretty good to me. I’d like to veneer, then trim off the edges and put your edgebanding on, but going the exposed plys route seems posible, no?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203398)
-
This is a flat pack kit I’m building. My woodworking skills and equipment are non-existent. Just slapping some hardwood into the edges is something you can do in your sleep, probably, but it would take me a month of Sunday’s. If I go the veneer-then-bevel route, I will need to borrow a friend’s router to do that. And pray i don’t screw up. I think your edgebanding looks better than the exposed plys. My plan is to use pretty dark veneer.
-
The important thing is that it pleases you and yours. I'm certainly jaded. Having been working wood my entire adult life I imagine my view is skewed in ways I don't even recognize.
-
@alan those look really nice as is
-
So Peter, do you think your edge banding would work in this situation?
-
So Peter, do you think your edge banding would work in this situation?
I think it could be made to work if it was applied prior to finishing. After the finishing would be really delicate work as the stain and topcoat is not near as tough and forgiving as laminate.
-
Very nice! 🤩🤩
Thanks for the compliments. I did go back and edit my post a little...it was late last night and it showed!
Although I have a great time building stuff like this, there is much pleasure in sharing it as well...both here and ultimately with dear daughter and family. And since I won't be leaving any stacks of cash when I leave this earth, I guess it's my legacy.
I'll post a few more pics as I get the rest completed and perhaps a summation of what I'd do differently next time. I'll be happy to fill in any blanks I've left.
Best of the holidays to everyone.
-
Danny!
Reading your old posts to Rajesh about the port on the X-SLS
I recently bought the X-LS Encore kit and have not started with the build. Only planning and making waf things.
Can I add length to the port and get it tuned lower?
Plan to build the X-SLS.
If I make some nice stands/feet to the cabinet. Can I place the port in the bottom, firing down?
(Of course will I make the “sandbox” a bit lower to fit the port length.)
Or do you recommend an other port? A slot port firing down? Measurement?
-
Danny!
Reading your old posts to Rajesh about the port on the X-SLS
I recently bought the X-LS Encore kit and have not started with the build. Only planning and making waf things.
Can I add length to the port and get it tuned lower?
Plan to build the X-SLS.
If I make some nice stands/feet to the cabinet. Can I place the port in the bottom, firing down?
(Of course will I make the “sandbox” a bit lower to fit the port length.)
Or do you recommend an other port? A slot port firing down? Measurement?
Leave port tuning as is to get the lowest tuning and good output.
-
Here are some pictures and youtube links to my Gr Research X-SLS Encore build. Cosmetically they turned out okay, sonically they are amazing. A great Bang for the Buck audiophile quality speaker.
Gr-Research X-SLS Encore Build youtube link:
https://youtu.be/IY-tk1AAxi4
Gr-Research X-SLS Encore Sound Demos youtube link:
https://youtu.be/FfBfNfXfmYs
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225264)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225265)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225266)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225267)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225268)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225269)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225270)