AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Audio by Van Alstine => Topic started by: I.Greyhound Fan on 18 Oct 2020, 08:10 pm
-
This is my second review of the new DVA Monoblock amps. My initial review was pairing the amps in 2 of my home systems which can be found at the top of this AVA page. Last night I was able to bring the amps over to a friends house to compare them to his Pass XA100.5 Mono blocks which are 100wpc Class A and sell for over $16,000 a pair.
Besides the amp my friends system consists of the following gear-
Atma-Sphere MP-3 preamp with the latest teflon caps. $6,000
Lampizator 7 Lite DAC with upgraded tubes $6,000
The latest Revel Ultima Studio 2 speakers over $16,000pr
Over $2K in cables
Puritan Audio power conditioner
There were probably at least $2K worth of room treatments on the walls and ceiling.
I know this system's sound very well and it is a true high end system and sounds fabulous.
Last night we spent about an hour listening to the system before inserting the AVA amps. There were 4 people present. Music source was HQplayer via Roon. The sound was fabulous as usual. Then we inserted the AVA amps and listened for 3 hours and for the first 15 minutes they sounded flat and then all of a sudden they just blossomed. I suspect that the amps were cold (it was 39 degrees last night) from the drive over to my friends because in my original review the amps did not need warm up.
First off, we noted that the 225's had a little more detail and a little more resolution. The attack was crisper. This did not surprise me since Pass amps have a rounded sound. Bass had more punch than the Pass amps. The sound did not have that forwardness that I noted in my initial review. It was mid row. Texture was very good but not as good as the Pass. Cymbals sounded very natural and at least if not better than the Pass amps. Where the Pass mono's had the 225's beat was that the overall sound had better tone and texture with a wider soundstage and more space between instruments. Don't get me wrong, the 225's did not sound closed in. It's just that the Pass amps were better in this regard. The Pass amps also had better decay on piano. Vocals with the Pass were better but not by much. Vocals sounded a bit more natural and had more texture. Air and transparency was better with the Pass but again, it was not night and day. The Pass amps also had fuller midrange but again it was not night and day. The Pass amps did somewhat sugar coat poor recordings when compared to the 225's. Overall the 4 of us were very impressed that the 225's were not at all embarrassed by XA100.5's considering the great cost difference. My friends system draws you into the music and the 225's did not diminish that feeling. We all felt that the 225's punch way above its price point and could compete with much more expensive amps. In some aspects it sounded better than the XA100.5's but in the end we all preferred the $16,000pr XA100.5's. One of my friends in attendance who own's a AVA 400R amps stated he would like to own a pair of the 225's. In the end the 225's did not disappoint. AVA has another winning amplifier.
For those wanting to know if the 225's produce a lot of heat, after 3 hours of listening at loud volumes, the amps were just warm to the touch.
Music: We listened to a lot of Rock like Massive Attack, Pineapple Thief new album, Elbow, Roger Waters, Fleetwood Mac to name a few but we also listened to some Jazz, piano and vocal music.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
-
When do they go on sale?
-
When do they go on sale?
I returned the amps to Frank this morning and I spoke with Mary and asked her that exact question. She said they are looking at a new supplier for the chassis, so it may be several weeks. They are awaiting a sample chassis. Your best bet is to call and speak to Frank.
-
What are the specs on the DVA 225s? How do they compare to the DVA 850s in this regard?
-
What are the specs on the DVA 225s? How do they compare to the DVA 850s in this regard?
225wpc at 8 ohms, 385 at 4 ohms.
I have heard the 850's at Franks but I did not review them. They do sound different. I believe the 850's are similar to the R series amps and I really like way the 850's sounded in Franks system.
-
The comparison I am eager to see is between these new amps and the DVA SET 600’s. I’ve been close to pulling the trigger on a pair of those for a couple of months, now. (Though I am also tempted by the similarly-priced Parasound JC5.). Maybe I could save some bucks and be just as happy with the 225’s?
My speakers, BTW are 4 ohm Alta Audio Rhea’s. It seems that any of Frank’s amps would be happy driving those, but I wonder if there is one that would be better. And i wonder if the mono amps are essentially bridged versions of stereo amps, which sometimes means they are less than happy with 4-ohm speakers.
My current amp is the only instance (as far as I know) of the short-lived, fully-differential, XLR-only DVA 700. I believe I have the same prototype unit that I Greyhound Fan reviewed here back in 2017. I like it very much, but still hope for something better. I am attracted by the description of the SET amps’ “romantic midrange”.
-
The comparison I am eager to see is between these new amps and the DVA SET 600’s. I’ve been close to pulling the trigger on a pair of those for a couple of months, now. (Though I am also tempted by the similarly-priced Parasound JC5.). Maybe I could save some bucks and be just as happy with the 225’s?
My speakers, BTW are 4 ohm Alta Audio Rhea’s. It seems that any of Frank’s amps would be happy driving those, but I wonder if there is one that would be better. And i wonder if the mono amps are essentially bridged versions of stereo amps, which sometimes means they are less than happy with 4-ohm speakers.
My current amp is the only instance (as far as I know) of the short-lived, fully-differential, XLR-only DVA 700. I believe I have the same prototype unit that I Greyhound Fan reviewed here back in 2017. I like it very much, but still hope for something better. I am attracted by the description of the SET amps’ “romantic midrange”.
I would go with the SET amp. Its midrange is fabulous. I prefer a richly textured and romantic midrange and the SET will give you that. The 225's don't have the same midrange. It is full sounding and textured but not really romantic like the SET amps.
You are correct, that the 225's will be happier with 8 ohm speakers as they are bridged. Here is a post from one of his engineers-
I work with Frank and was involved with the M225 design, and I built all the prototypes. As far as I'm concerned, this is the best sounding amp to ever come out of AVA. It is a new chassis design for AVA with the heat sinks on both sides, rather than on the back. About 40% more heat sink ares is obtained this way. One of the design goals was for two of these mono's to sit side by side on a standard 17" shelf - we almost made it - I think the heat sinks need to interleave a little bit in order to fit.
The 16 pound monoblock contains a 9 pound transformer rated at 400 VA. This basically means that you are never going to get more than about 80% x 400 = 320 watts out of this amp under any circumstances...its just designed that way. A bigger transformer would cost more, weigh more, would not fit in the chassis, and would give you a lot of power that you would probably never use. As is true with all bridged amps, the impedance seen by the amp is 1/2 the speaker impedance. So with 8 ohm speakers, the amp sees 4 ohms. With 4 ohm speakers, the amp sees 2 ohms. And with 2 ohm Maggies (in spots) the amp sees 1 ohm. I have been running my prototype pair with 4 ohm speakers for months now and they seem very happy with that load. They also seem ok on the bench with a 2 ohm load as long as you don't try and pull more than about 150w out of them. At this point, the speaker fuses need to be 9 amps and things can get hot very fast as the amp winds up dissipating a larger percentage of the overall power than it does with higher impedance loads.
Dan
-
Thanks, I.G.F. That is very helpful.
-Tom (AKA tcatch -- I seem to have acquired two logins somehow)
-
I have a pair of the DVA M225's in to review for Part Time Audiophile. I can indeed confirm they are some of the finest sounding amps I've ever heard at ANY price.
Unlike a previous comment, in my system, they have an extraordinary midrange texture of an almost tube-like nature. Imaging is off the charts great. Huge bass with a vice-like grip. Super clean and classy top.
My system currently consists of:
Rega P10 with a Charisma Audio Signature One cart
VAC Master Preamplifier
Pass XA-200.8 monos or Audio Hungary Qualiton APX-200 II
Acora SRC-2 or QLN Prestege Five speakers
Innous Zen mini with a variety of DACs
All Cardas Clear Light cables and power bar
Dave
-
Well!
The cat is really out of the bag now! Universal agreement that our brand new M225 mono amps are something very special.
$1699 each and actually available right now! The pair I just send to an Audiophila reviewer is not coming back, the reviewer bought them the same day he unboxed them.
One spare pair ready to ship in house now, but another batch will be ready within a couple of weeks.
Dimensions are 9" wide, 10" deep, 4" high and shipping weight of 18 pounds. Note that they are pure differential balanced designs with XLR inputs only. We will have a small outboard stereo RCA to XLR adaptor available soon.
These are not soulless Class D switching amps, the are true Class AB designs biased on to about 20W chassis A. There is just an unbelievable lot of high class stuff packing in this small AVA designed chassis including mirror imaged audio boards and separate regulated power supplies for each channel and regulated output mosfet transistors too.
-
"The 16 pound monoblock contains a 9 pound transformer rated at 400 VA. This basically means that you are never going to get more than about 80% x 400 = 320 watts out of this amp under any circumstances...its just designed that way. A bigger transformer would cost more, weigh more, would not fit in the chassis, and would give you a lot of power that you would probably never use. As is true with all bridged amps, the impedance seen by the amp is 1/2 the speaker impedance. So with 8 ohm speakers, the amp sees 4 ohms. With 4 ohm speakers, the amp sees 2 ohms. And with 2 ohm Maggies (in spots) the amp sees 1 ohm. I have been running my prototype pair with 4 ohm speakers for months now and they seem very happy with that load. They also seem ok on the bench with a 2 ohm load as long as you don't try and pull more than about 150w out of them."
Interested in the DVA225. But given these specs, the Odyssey Audio Extreme Mono (at $3,400 a pair) is a very strong competitor.
-
I’ve not listened to any Odyssey amps other than at a show one time (and Klaus was great!)
but have heard great things about them. But for older guys like me, I can really appreciate
that the DVA M225s are 16 lbs each while the Odyssey Extreme Monos are 66 lbs each.
My aching back would say “thank you” :thumb:
-
Long-time reader, first-time poster here.
I was perhaps the first retail customer for the DVA 225 Monoblocks after emailing Frank about using the balanced outs from my preamp to run a second amplifier with RCA input. (One could say he upsold me after suggesting not to do this.)
Let me say these amps are the real deal and have excellent tone and depth of soundstage that is amazing. I have replaced a Vision SET 120 with these amps, so my comments may be particularly useful to those familiar with the SET 120/400 family. I will let other professional reviewers make broader comparisons.
My system for reference:
Bricasti M3 DAC with network renderer
PS Audio BHK Pre with Mazda 12AU7 NOS tubes
Vision SET 120/Ultravalve/DVA M225 as amps
Dynaudio Heritage Special Monitors (very fast, resolving, highly coherent)
Kimber Kable Hero/8TC
acoustical treatment of first reflections and bass traps in a small room
As you can see, I am very familiar with Frank's amps - I also own a Vision SET 400 in my large room system. For those familiar with the Vision SET range, you know what a great amp that is. The SET 120 with single-ended inputs replaced a more expensive balanced Class D amp in my system and was better across the board, even in bass control. The strengths of the SET range are its detail and intimacy, with a forward presentation and overall smoothness. I Greyhound Fan talks of the romantic midrange in these amps - I am not sure I am hearing the same thing, although perhaps the forward nature of these amps and their general smooth presentation gives this impression. Certainly, they are very listenable amps with perhaps a bit of midrange emphasis but also a lot of detail on top and excellent deep bass. The SET amps are also very fast.
In comparison, when I use the Ultravalve, I hear a more rounded presentation with a little less detail, but a very pleasant emphasis characteristic of EL34s. The Ultravalve also gives a much more recessed presentation than the SET 120. It makes the forward characteristics of the SET amps clear - if I were to criticize one thing about the SET amps, is that they have a front-row characteristic to the sound - for many this is a desirable trait and it certainly adds to the excitement the amp gives. However, in some systems, I could see this as a bit much. Also, for certain tracks the forward presentation can be a tiny bit fatiguing - I don't want to make too much of that comment as the amps certainly aren't the fatiguing type.
So how do the DVA 225s compare to the SET 120? At first listen, I thought they had a more recessed sound like the Ultravalve, but I now understand that to be an incomplete statement. The 225s have a much deeper soundstage than the 120 or the Ultravalve. Whereas the 120 is forward and the Ultravalve is recessed, the 225s fill the entire state. In general, the 225s start further back than the 120 but are able to present more forward when called for. On certain vocal tracks such as Johnny Case American V, Johnny presents forward with a deep stage around him. On well-recorded music, there is a dimensionality to the presentation that is rare to observe. Singers have depth and dimensionality to them. By comparison, the 120 seems more 2.5d and the singers seem flat in comparison (like a cardboard cutout singing from a point in space). This is not meant as a criticism of the 120 but rather a complement of the capabilities of the 225s. The 120s have a slightly faster attack on notes than the 225s (this may give the more forward sound?) but the decay on the 225s is better. Acoustic music is, in general, more realistic and the sound of percussion is more lifelike. The 225s are deeply satisfying amps.
Note that the 225s fit on my rack in the same space as the 120 - they are the same height and the pair is just a smidge wider. Like the SET amps, they run cool.
The Vision SET 120 is certainly a go-to recommendation for under $1000 and holds its own against more costly options. My comparison with the DVA 225s is a little unfair given both the price difference but also I am comparing monoblocks with balanced inputs to a stereo amp with rca inputs. If Frank would like to send me some monoblocks for a detailed review and comparison, I would be happy to accommodate. :D
-
Long-time reader, first-time poster here.
I was perhaps the first retail customer for the DVA 225 Monoblocks after emailing Frank about using the balanced outs from my preamp to run a second amplifier with RCA input. (One could say he upsold me after suggesting not to do this.)
Let me say these amps are the real deal and have excellent tone and depth of soundstage that is amazing. I have replaced a Vision SET 120 with these amps, so my comments may be particularly useful to those familiar with the SET 120/400 family. I will let other professional reviewers make broader comparisons.
My system for reference:
Bricasti M3 DAC with network renderer
PS Audio BHK Pre with Mazda 12AU7 NOS tubes
Vision SET 120/Ultravalve/DVA M225 as amps
Dynaudio Heritage Special Monitors (very fast, resolving, highly coherent)
Kimber Kable Hero/8TC
acoustical treatment of first reflections and bass traps in a small room
As you can see, I am very familiar with Frank's amps - I also own a Vision SET 400 in my large room system. For those familiar with the Vision SET range, you know what a great amp that is. The SET 120 with single-ended inputs replaced a more expensive balanced Class D amp in my system and was better across the board, even in bass control. The strengths of the SET range are its detail and intimacy, with a forward presentation and overall smoothness. I Greyhound Fan talks of the romantic midrange in these amps - I am not sure I am hearing the same thing, although perhaps the forward nature of these amps and their general smooth presentation gives this impression. Certainly, they are very listenable amps with perhaps a bit of midrange emphasis but also a lot of detail on top and excellent deep bass. The SET amps are also very fast.
In comparison, when I use the Ultravalve, I hear a more rounded presentation with a little less detail, but a very pleasant emphasis characteristic of EL34s. The Ultravalve also gives a much more recessed presentation than the SET 120. It makes the forward characteristics of the SET amps clear - if I were to criticize one thing about the SET amps, is that they have a front-row characteristic to the sound - for many this is a desirable trait and it certainly adds to the excitement the amp gives. However, in some systems, I could see this as a bit much. Also, for certain tracks the forward presentation can be a tiny bit fatiguing - I don't want to make too much of that comment as the amps certainly aren't the fatiguing type.
So how do the DVA 225s compare to the SET 120? At first listen, I thought they had a more recessed sound like the Ultravalve, but I now understand that to be an incomplete statement. The 225s have a much deeper soundstage than the 120 or the Ultravalve. Whereas the 120 is forward and the Ultravalve is recessed, the 225s fill the entire state. In general, the 225s start further back than the 120 but are able to present more forward when called for. On certain vocal tracks such as Johnny Case American V, Johnny presents forward with a deep stage around him. On well-recorded music, there is a dimensionality to the presentation that is rare to observe. Singers have depth and dimensionality to them. By comparison, the 120 seems more 2.5d and the singers seem flat in comparison (like a cardboard cutout singing from a point in space). This is not meant as a criticism of the 120 but rather a complement of the capabilities of the 225s. The 120s have a slightly faster attack on notes than the 225s (this may give the more forward sound?) but the decay on the 225s is better. Acoustic music is, in general, more realistic and the sound of percussion is more lifelike. The 225s are deeply satisfying amps.
Note that the 225s fit on my rack in the same space as the 120 - they are the same height and the pair is just a smidge wider. Like the SET amps, they run cool.
The Vision SET 120 is certainly a go-to recommendation for under $1000 and holds its own against more costly options. My comparison with the DVA 225s is a little unfair given both the price difference but also I am comparing monoblocks with balanced inputs to a stereo amp with rca inputs. If Frank would like to send me some monoblocks for a detailed review and comparison, I would be happy to accommodate. :D
Thanks for the excellent and very helpful review as I’m a (very happy) SET 120 Control
Amp owner. As I’ve only had 6-7 amps over the last 12-13 years, I can’t really comment
on your impressions. But my thoughts are that the SET 120, combined with my Border Patrol SEi dac, Audio Hungary APR 204 pre and Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers, provide me with midrange magic
What quite intrigues me about your review, though, are the references to increased depth and dimensionality, better decay, and more realistic and lifelike presentation in some regards. Something to think about 🤔
Nick
-
Nice review Wjob. I still stand by my review that the SET 400. I tried it in 2 systems and got similar results with a romantic or lush musical midrange. Of course the preamp and DAC that you use is different than mine so it is like comparing apples to oranges. But I heard the SET in Frank's system and heard a similar sound.
The 225's are great amps, more detail and depth than the SET 400's but also more forward sounding as if you were in the front row. They have a huge, tall, deep and wide sound stage like my Pass amp just more forward in my 2 systems. I found them a little faster paced compared to the SET 400 (which is not slow by any means). They are also more dynamic. Eventually, I am going to move on from my 105lb. Pass amp along with my 50lb. BAT preamp and if I do not go the integrated route I will purchase a pair of the 225's.
Also, on my second review of the 225's I tried them in my friends system with an Atma-sphere preamp and Lampizator DAC and the sound was midrow. It just shows that it is all about system matching. :D
-
Our DVA M225 mono amplifiers are in stock and available to ship right now.
We are just waiting for good photographs before posting them at our web site.
I think you will need to spend ten times as much to equal them, probably more.
Note that they are true differential balanced designs and thus are designed for a balanced XLR input only.
Frank
-
Thanks, I. Greyhound Fan. Systems and rooms certainly do affect impressions - interesting how you saw the presentation move across the two systems you tried the 225s on. In my room tonight, I listened again to some albums and songs I am very familiar with. Frank Sinatra "In the Wee Small Hours", Dido "Still on My Mind", Freya Ridings "Lost Without You", Gotye "Somebody I Used to Know" and others. I would say our impressions are actually similar but we are coming from different directions. There is a little more mid-range emphasis in the SET 120 and more forward sound that gives a very intimate presentation. I can see that described as a romantic midrange. There are going to be people that prefer the SET amps over the 225s, and on some music, I might well prefer the SET amps. I'd love to compare the DVA SET 600 Monos head-to-head with the 225s. In any case, if you have the privilege to own one of these amps you are lucky indeed!
-
can we see the guts of the DVA 225?
-
Here are some pics of the M225 as its being put together. The M225 can be operated, adjusted, and repaired (if necessary) while lying open on the bench in 5 pieces. The assembly starts by laying out those 5 pieces.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224592)
Then the 5 pieces are wired together.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224593)
Connecting current meters to the fuse holders and volt meters to critical points, as well as connecting an 8 ohm dummy load, allows the M225 to be quickly adjusted for optimum performance. Replacing the current meters with the fuses allows the M225 to be run up to full power.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224594)
43.11v rms into 8 ohms is 232w for this guy.
Then the parts are assembled with 16 screws.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224595)
Finally the top goes on with 6 more screws. Its then run up to full power a final time and then goes in a real system for a real world verification.
Dan
-
great stuff... :thumb:
-
How well will a pair of DVA225 work with the Magnepan 1.7i, rated at 86db at 4ohm?
-
A pair of M225 amps will work great with your Magnapans.
Note that I.Greyhound Fan has already tested the prototypes with Maggies in his system with excellent results.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172760.0
Frank
-
Yes the 225's will sound great with the 1.7's. I tested them with the 1.6's which is very similar. In the real world your Maggies will be running on less than 10 wpc the majority of the time. My Pass amp has a meter on it that lets you know when it leaves Class A to AB.
The amp is 15-20 wpc in Class A and 500 wpc total. 95% of the time it never leaves Class A, even at loud volumes.
-
Frank and I. Greyhound Fan:
Thanks for the information. Good to know that is the case.
-
Actual production units, available right now!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224739)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224740)
-
Frank,
With this unit only being XLR are you going to start offering preamps with that as well. Thanks.
-
XLR out balanced preamp coming very soon.
Also a really nice sounding inexpensive little free standing RCA to XLR active converter to use with our mono amps with preamp with RCA connections only.
Frank
-
dva 225 monoblock x 4
I have been a customer of Frank for decades. Owned a bunch of his stuff. Still have bridged omegas in my home theater set up.
We are gradually setting a home for the eventual retirement in which space is a premium and wife acceptance factor prevails in all decisions. So 12 in dual 4 ohm woofers sealed in stereo, a pair of custom speakers without crossover (SB Acoustics SB29BAC-C000-4 29mm Beryllium dome tweeter w/grille and Scanspeak Illuminator 15WU/4741T-00 5.5" Woofer, 4 ohm) first vented then sealed. The subs reside in a cabinet and the speakers are on the cabinet. Therefore each of the 4 4ohm voice coils has a mono amplifier as the driver. Subs have a high current multichannel amp. The custom speakers have a dva 225 per voice coil.
The front end is a classe cp 800 with digital inputs from TV and a Mac. Analog is from a VIP hw 19 highly moded feeding a aire balanced phono. The system is completely balanced throughout. There is mini DPs crossover between the classe and the dva 225 for each channel.
In have no ab reference to compare but check this out at my other home ( https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176494.msg1859492#msg1859492 )
These amps are great. Best imaging I have experienced in any system I own or visited. The power is there. The music is there. As an example Roger Waters Amused to Death is a recording that will test the power and imaging of any system. To put it into words the speakers are at a 60-75 degree angle from my listening position. The sound stage thrown by this system is easily 120 to 130 degrees, like someone is peaking in your ear. There is height in this recording and is easily perceived. By far the best I have heard in a home.
So congratulations Frank, you may be right. This is your best.
-
Our new M225 super amplifiers and Digital preamplifier are posted at our web site today. The Digital preamplifier is posted on our DAC page. All the parts to build the preamp are finally coming together and it will be available very soon. The combination of it and a pair of our brand new M225 balanced amplifiers will provide you with music like you have never heard before except at a live performance.
M225 amplifiers are available right now. New reviews coming very soon in Parttimeaudiophile and Audiophila.
It is time for you to rethink what your audio system should do for you.
Frank
-
Do you have an estimated price yet for the new digital preamp?
-
How much gain do the M225's have?
-
The gain of the M225 is around 25. This is differential in to differential out into an 8 ohm load.
It takes around 1.7v rms differential in to run the M225 up to full power into an 8 ohm load. This would be each side of the differential input being around 0.85v rms.
Dan
-
Thanks.
I was looking for an amp with a little bit lower gain (or adjustable gain) so I could use more of the range of the volume control on my preamp.
-
Two+ questions: (1) when will the outboard stereo RCA to XLR adaptor be available and is it a single unit for both amps or do you need one for each amp; and (2) any definitive date when the digital preamp will be available and the final price?
-
Two+ questions: (1) when will the outboard stereo RCA to XLR adaptor be available and is it a single unit for both amps or do you need one for each amp; and (2) any definitive date when the digital preamp will be available and the final price?
I believe the XLR to RCA is a single unit. Frank gave me the prototype when I reviewed the DVA 225's.
-
We can set the gain of the M225 amps down 6 dB upon request when we build your units.
Only one stereo R2X box needed for a pair of our Mono amps. Price will be about $399.
Digital preamp should be available in about two weeks. All needed circuit boards are now in house and just need final testing. Price will be about $2199.
Frank
-
Just to add my voice--and endorsement--to what's been said already about the M225's.
Mine arrived after lunch yesterday, and I've been playing them pretty much continuously since.
Miraculous, considering the size and weight. Before these came along, I'd been considering going class D, but now no need.
Major props to AVA.
-
What is the amount of capacitance and the current rating of this amp?
-
Line fuse is 5a slow blow
Internal Vcc fuses are 5a fast blow
Speaker fuses should be no bigger than 8a fast blow for 4 ohm speakers or 5-6 amp fast blow for 8 ohm speakers. Units ship with 5a fast blow speaker fuses.
Capacitance is 6800uf per power supply board, which powers both the (+) and the (-) amplifier boards. This is a more than adequate amount of capacitance, but not an excessive amount. We are finding out that, with a regulated power supply, bigger is not always better when it comes to capacitance. Too much capacitance can increase idle current, which is required to keep the capacitors charged. This can translate into higher hum levels while only reducing ripple on the raw DC voltage, not on the regulated voltage. The turn on current spike is also greatly reduced, this is what causes the lights to flicker when you turn the amp on. Also reduced is the overall voltage drop of the supply when running at high / full power - with less capacitance to charge there is more energy left to do other things, like make more audio power.
Dan
-
Thank you, Dan.
-
Do you have an estimated price yet for the new digital preamp?
Any update on this Frank or maybe I missed it,
-
Still figuring out how much time it takes for one of my experienced technicians to put our new Digital Preamp together and test it. Will know in a couple of weeks.
Frank
-
Hello all, I would like to know what the class A level of power before moving to class A/B is for the 225s? Also, would I need a converter to use with a bottle head 300 pre/bee preamplifier with a xlr output as I would like to have a tube front end.
Thanks!
Mike
-
Any chance there will be a black face option?
Thanks!
-
Hello all, I would like to know what the class A level of power before moving to class A/B is for the 225s? Also, would I need a converter to use with a bottle head 300 pre/bee preamplifier with a xlr output as I would like to have a tube front end.
Thanks!
Mike
I think its noted on the first page of the post " Class AB designs biased on to about 20W chassis A. "
-
RETURN TO THE FAITH
Well, I’m back.
“Who are you, where are you back from, and why should I care?” I hear you ask.
I am a Van Alstine disciple of the last 43 years, and have owned Frank’s gear from the days of Jensen’s Stereo Shop. I sort of fell away from the path of True Faith about seven years ago, and though I’ve always kept an AVA amp and preamp on hand, was seduced by the spell of gear with copious reviews and higher prices. It’s a long story, and boring too, so I won’t burden you with details. But even in my time of being lost in the hi-fi wilderness, I continued to recommend AVA gear to friends and family as a superb, cost-effective means to sonic enlightenment.
The shining audio beacon that lights my return to the AVA fold is the DVA M225 amp. For the last year I have owned two very highly regarded Pass Labs monoblocks, and was initially quite happy with them. But I gradually became aware that although these amps did depth and detail and gravitas extremely well, I was missing out on at least a couple of attributes I really wanted. I was able to identify the lacking qualities as – to use the vernacular of our passion – soundstage and dynamics. No doubt the many adherents to the faith of Pass amplification will, at a minimum, be quick to call me crazy and question the acuity of my hearing. So be it. I am willing to go so far as to attribute my perceptions of problems to poor system synergy.
But after a trial with the M225s, I have sold the Pass amps – which list at four times the price of the M225s – and am now enjoying music that calls out to me, demands my attention, and pulls me in. The M225s render a very accurate, clean and clear audio picture, and present a soundstage to die for. I am convinced that they are world-beaters, certainly at anything near the price point and probably several multiples of it. Some have called it the best amp Frank has even come out with, which is a bold statement but one I must agree with.
To answer my opening questions: I am a happy audiophile, I have returned from a sojourn into non-AVA gear, and – OK, so you might not really care – I hope more audiophiles can experience this audio achievement that AVA has wrought.
System Equipment: Martin Logan CLX speakers and BalancedForce subs, Audio Research Ref 6 preamp, PS Audio Stellar phono pre, Exemplar-modified Oppo UDP-205 CD deck, Denon DP-75 TT/Kuzma 4 Pt tonearm/My Sonic Labs cart.
-
Well!
The cat is really out of the bag now! Universal agreement that our brand new M225 mono amps are something very special.
$1699 each and actually available right now! The pair I just send to an Audiophila reviewer is not coming back, the reviewer bought them the same day he unboxed them.
One spare pair ready to ship in house now, but another batch will be ready within a couple of weeks.
Dimensions are 9" wide, 10" deep, 4" high and shipping weight of 18 pounds. Note that they are pure differential balanced designs with XLR inputs only. We will have a small outboard stereo RCA to XLR adaptor available soon.
These are not soulless Class D switching amps, the are true Class AB designs biased on to about 20W chassis A. There is just an unbelievable lot of high class stuff packing in this small AVA designed chassis including mirror imaged audio boards and separate regulated power supplies for each channel and regulated output mosfet transistors too.
Can't wait to get mine Frank!! Thank you.
-
I'm employing a pair of M225s for my review of Alta Alec floorstanders on Mike Levy's recommendation and I'm so happy he made me aware of them. My system has never sounded better! Don't let their small size or reasonable weight fool you, the M225s are explosively dynamic, produce powerful impactive propulsive bass, and vocals never sounded more real, I'm loving them! You'll be able to see and hear them in my system when the review of the Alecs is posted on YouTube later this Fall on AV Showrooms' YT site.
-
I have a pair of the DVA M225's in to review for Part Time Audiophile. I can indeed confirm they are some of the finest sounding amps I've ever heard at ANY price.
Unlike a previous comment, in my system, they have an extraordinary midrange texture of an almost tube-like nature. Imaging is off the charts great. Huge bass with a vice-like grip. Super clean and classy top.
My system currently consists of:
Rega P10 with a Charisma Audio Signature One cart
VAC Master Preamplifier
Pass XA-200.8 monos or Audio Hungary Qualiton APX-200 II
Acora SRC-2 or QLN Prestege Five speakers
Innous Zen mini with a variety of DACs
All Cardas Clear Light cables and power bar
Dave
How do you feel they did on low volume ? Do you know how many watts they are bias into class A ? Sorry, see it has been answered already, anyone knows if they come with a black faceplate also ?
-
I have the Magnepan 1.7i speakers---86db sensitivity, 4ohm.
How will the DVA SET 600 monos and the DVA M225 monos sound differently driving that pair of speakers?
-
I have the Magnepan 1.7i speakers---86db sensitivity, 4ohm.
How will the DVA SET 600 monos and the DVA M225 monos sound differently driving that pair of speakers?
Maggie owner, 1.6's. I reviewed the 225's. They worked well with the 1.6's. The 600's might work better though depending upon how loud you like to play and the type of music. The tweeters on the Maggies according to GR Research, present a 2 ohm load.
I am a believer that the more current, capacitance, voltage and watts you have the better with Magnepans.
-
Are the DVA-225 amps compliant with the AES-48 standard for balanced line connections? I've seen comments in forums about the importance of meeting that standard. Apparently it's very beneficial in reducing, or eliminating the impact of different interconnect cables.
-
I have 3 questions about the 225s…
1. Does reducing the gain mean that more input voltage will be needed to drive the amp to full output?
2. If the amps stays in class a for the first 20 Watts, does it run hot.
3. What is the downside of using a Neutrik balanced to rca adapter… will it not work? Or will it require more preamp output voltage to drive the amp to full output? Or will it just sound poor?
-
1. reduced gain will require more input to drive the amp to full power. However the M225 is fairly "hot" to begin with due to its differential design, which adds 6db of gain.
2. The amp runs cool at low power
3. inexpensive rca to xlr adapters, like the Neutrik NA2MPMF, run the RCA hot signal to XLR pin 2 (the + pin) and RCA ground to XLR pins 1 (the ground pin) AND pin 3 (the - pin). The result is the - side amplifier board of the M225 gets ground as an input. This means that you have effectively converted your M225 to a SET120. It works. It produces about 60w. It is not differential. It doesn't sound bad, but it is no where near the amplifier a M225 is. The DVA R2X, on the other hand, uses proprietary solid state circuitry to convert the RCA input to a 180 degree phase shifted copy of the original signal. It then feeds the original signal to pin 2 and the phase shifted copy to pin 3, and ground to pin 1. The result is 225w of glorious full differential audio bliss.
Dan
-
Dan...thank you for the great, easy to understand explanation. So, for further clarification, does it mean that an rca output only preamp into your rca/xlr convertor into the M225s needs to deliver 1.7 volts to the convertor to drive the amp to full power?
If yes, does that then mean that reducing the amp sensitivity by 6db means it will take 2 volts to drive the amp to full power?
Does reducing the sensitivity make the amp even quieter and possibly sound better since you would be using more of your preamps volume range?
The reason for the questions is that I really like the dac tone/presentation/etc. in my OPPO 205 so I'm a little hesitant to try the new digital preamp and want to better understand the M225 sensitivity and options....
Thanks
-
Dan...thank you for the great, easy to understand explanation. So, for further clarification, does it mean that an rca output only preamp into your rca/xlr convertor into the M225s needs to deliver 1.7 volts to the convertor to drive the amp to full power?
If yes, does that then mean that reducing the amp sensitivity by 6db means it will take 2 volts to drive the amp to full power?
Does reducing the sensitivity make the amp even quieter and possibly sound better since you would be using more of your preamps volume range?
The reason for the questions is that I really like the dac tone/presentation/etc. in my OPPO 205 so I'm a little hesitant to try the new digital preamp and want to better understand the M225 sensitivity and options....
Thanks
The OPPO 205 from what I read in my manual, Output Level: (RCA) 2.1±0.2Vrms. (XLR) 4.2±0.4Vrms
-
mav52
my questions to dan are not related to using the oppo to drive the M225...although maybe that would work, I'm not sure if it is fully balanced as would be required by this amp.
my questions are more about the voltage input requirements of the M225 with the gain reduced and what that will do to the voltage input requirement and the sound.
The upside of the digital preamp to drive the M225 is that it is designed to be a perfect match..the downside is if one doesn't prefer the sound of its dac vs say my oppo...or anything else then you are locked in...although, I'm sure its pretty good.
The upside of the rca to xlr convertor is that any preamp can be used.
hmm will the FET VALVE CFR PREAMPLIFIER be offered fully balanced, that could be the ultimate.
-
mav52
my questions to dan are not related to using the oppo to drive the M225...although maybe that would work, I'm not sure if it is fully balanced as would be required by this amp.
my questions are more about the voltage input requirements of the M225 with the gain reduced and what that will do to the voltage input requirement and the sound.
The upside of the digital preamp to drive the M225 is that it is designed to be a perfect match..the downside is if one doesn't prefer the sound of its dac vs say my oppo...or anything else then you are locked in...although, I'm sure its pretty good.
The upside of the rca to xlr convertor is that any preamp can be used.
hmm will the FET VALVE CFR PREAMPLIFIER be offered fully balanced, that could be the ultimate.
Understand, Looking forward to his comments
-
RonN5
I will try and answer your questions:
Old rule of thumb in amplifier design is (was) to set the gain so the amplifier puts out full power into an 8 ohms load with a 1 volt input. This 1 volt has been creeping up over the years to 1.5, 1.7. even 2 and higher. I don't know why. But one of the consequences is that some sources can't drive some amplifiers to full power necessitating the REQUIREMENT of having a preamp (with gain). I have always been of the philosophy that "the best preamp is no preamp" so designing an amplifier that requires a preamp doesn't make sense to me.
The two amplifier boards in the M225 have a gain of 24. This means that 1 volt in gets you 24v out. But there are 2 amplifier boards, running out of phase, so the differential output is double, or 48v. 48v into 8 ohms is 288w, a little over the M225's 225w. Turns out the input needed to drive the M225 to full power is a little less than 1v, more like 0.9v. 0.9 x 24 = 21.6v out of each amp board = 43.2v differential into 8 ohms = 233w.
Our R2X has a gain of 2, but that's a little misleading. The gain from input to positive output is 1, the gain from input to negative output is 1, and the gain from input to differential output is 2. But each amp board in the M225 only uses the positive OR the negative input. There is nothing in the M225 that uses the differential input. So the R2X does not add any gain.
If you reduce the gain of the M225 by 6 db, it will require 1.8v input (1.8v + input AND 1.8v - input which is 3.6v differential) to run it up to full power.
I have seen no appreciable noise differences in the low gain vs the normal gain M225's.
So, clear as mud - right?
Dan
-
Hi Dan,
Do you know the answer to my question as to whether the DVA 225 amp's balanced connections are AES-48 compliant?
Thanks,
Bob
-
Sorry if I missed this in any earlier post. Does anyone know the damping factor and if these amps use any negative feedback? My speakers are single driver crossoverless design and tend to sound best with low damping factor/no negative feedback designs. I also have a pair of stand mount speakers that love high power and could see these amps matching up perfectly with those.
Thanks in advance.
-
Sorry if I missed this in any earlier post. Does anyone know the damping factor and if these amps use any negative feedback? My speakers are single driver crossoverless design and tend to sound best with low damping factor/no negative feedback designs. I also have a pair of stand mount speakers that love high power and could see these amps matching up perfectly with those.
Thanks in advance.
I don't know that spec, only that AVA amps produce some seriously good bass. I just hooked up a pair of M225's last night and after a brief test listen, I can say I don't think you would be disappointed. I have Ascend Sierra-2EX's which use a RAAL ribbon tweeter and a SEAS custom Excel woofer. The M225's made them sound like I've never heard them before. Effortless, clear, so much texture with things fleshed out. A sense of the performer in a 3 dimensional space in my room. I can't wait to put more hours on them.
-
Apologies for piggy-backing on this thread..... but just wanted to post a small update on the M225's.
WOW!! I was hoping that there would be a significant gain going from the SET 120, but I am a bit shocked. Realism, dynamics, lack of any hint of harshness/sibilance, etc. etc. I can listen forever, and listen to stuff I usually don't listen to.
I'd say the cost was worth the week in the doghouse with my wife...... but I shouldn't say that, should I?!! :scratch:
-
Just wait until you read and see what the next two reviewers will have to say! :D
My expert builder will be bringing in another new batch of M225 amps this morning. There might be a few still available for immediate delivery.
Act fast if you want their magic.
Frank
-
Just wait until you read and see what the next two reviewers will have to say! :D
My expert builder will be bringing in another new batch of M225 amps this morning. There might be a few still available for immediate delivery.
Act fast if you want their magic.
Frank
Where might we find those reviews, and when will they be published?
-
I can't say anything more about upcoming reviews until they are actually published.
Frank
-
Time to ramp up production!
-
I can't say anything more about upcoming reviews until they are actually published.
Frank
Well, I don't need another review to tell me how good these are, just like to get other's reaction to hearing them!
-
I would really like to hear about other new M225 or SET 120 user's reactions here too.
Frank
-
Looks like TAS has scheduled a review for next month (or next issue, whichever comes first).
-
Didn't see the DVA SET 600 mono on the website, only the DVA 225 mono.
Are the larger monos no longer made?
-
I had the pleasure of auditioning the 225's at home for a full three weeks and close to 75+ hours.
My current system:
Auralic G1 Streamer
Okto Research Stereo 8 DAC (used as preamp to feed 225's directly)
Musical Fidelity M6 500i (500w integrated) ($7k when introduced)
B&W 804 D3 (they measure flat to 27hz in-room)
13x18x8.5 (ground up) treated listening room
First thing - communication and service from AVA is outstanding. Second, the quality of the product was higher than expected. They are very solid. Nice metal feet with rubber ring bottoms. Solid. They look great on the rack and sit easily side by side on my standard rack. The speaker taps are close together so banana plugs are best.
Before I start, it can be hard to separate nuance from hyperbole. When level matched, the gap between the MF and AVA was slight, but I am confident that I could blind A/B them with most content after spending so much time with both.
When I first turned them on, it was clear to me that the 225's played in the "top shelf" league. I did not have one in my room, but I had just listened to a Burmester 032 at a dealer and the AVA Immediately reminded me of that ($25k) integrated. Without dissecting the sound, the word that kept coming to mind was "Beautiful." This was especially evident when listening to piano, acoustic or vocal. They play things down the middle without drawing attention to any portion of the presentation by bumping up the high, or being overly warm, etc. The soundstage was big and deep but not artificially exaggerated. They are easy to turn up loud because they simply will not offend your ear with any harshness. My speakers are 89db and can dip to 3ohms at the bottom (ported design). If you know the d3 sound, they lean to the bright side especially with average amplification. The B&W feed on power and most amps simply do not do them justice. I have demoed them with Anthem, Classe, Hegel and McIntosh in the 250w+ range and they simply did not impress they way they do with my MF amp. Chalk it up to taste or synergy. This was not the case with the AVA's - they sounded great! Also, I could not get the amps to run anything more than slightly warm even when driven to the point where I was beginning to worry about my speakers.
In contrast to the MF amp (with > double the power): The MF was ever so slightly less refined on the mid and top. Whereas I defined the AVA's as Beautiful, the single word that comes to mind with the MF is Impactful. You simply can't passively listen to the MF. The slightly sharper top end of the MF made the soundstage sound just the slightest bit wider but maybe less deep. The biggest contrast was in the bass. The MF's have an iron grip on the woofers so there is absolutely zero overhang below 50hz. If I did not have the MF on hand, I would have attributed the slightly looser bass of the AVA to room nodes. That is not to say that the AVA's were lacking in their ability to generate bass or even control. In fact, they sounded slightly fuller in the low end to a small degree. I'm not sure if that was because the bass was slightly softer or if they were actually pushing more current. Hard to say.
All said - the MFs strengths played best if your are into EDM or focus heavily on percussion attack. The MF simply has limitless dynamics and an iron fist on the low end. If I had to guess, the AVA would appeal to more people - especially if you seldom venture to true rock concert levels or have (very) power hungry speakers. The more velvet touch of he AVA was best with many songs. With more efficient speakers or ones with less control issues in the lowest octave than the B&W's, the AVA would be the easy choice for many. Plenty of power. Grace. Huge Value. Look great on the rack. Don't take up much space. Great service. Made in USA.
Much respect. Most of the audio world should be embarrassed for what they are asking, by contrast.
-
In my original review the 225's with my Magnepan 1.6's (85db and dips to 2 ohms) they played to rock concert levels and had tighter bass than my Pass X250 which is not surprising given bass tends to be a little slower with some Pass amps. The 225's were not polite. They were very dynamic and a little forward sounding in my system using a BAT VK-51se preamp.
Great review 853!
-
I.Greyhound or anyone with similar experience. I'd appreciate you sharing any M225 experience you have at moderate SPL. This is my critical listening comfort zone that I only know to describe as life size. In practice and depending on the music it ends up being ~55-60ish dB average as measured with a smart phone app at ~ 8' from the baffles.
Thanks much,
Allan
-
I purchased a pair of the recently offered demos because I WAS ON THE FENCE. I have Zu Def IV's which I thought might not seem like a good match well I was totaly wrong! They are sounding amazing. I have had several amps with these speakers in the past from tubes, very popular low powered SS and some class D they all sounded pretty good but all left me "wanting" I must say the 225's Do it all for me. I believe I will have these for quite some time. Very dynamic sounding unbelievable slam had to change settings on the onboard subs. No harshness whatsoever. I'm not much for writing reviews so I will say what is written in the reviews about their sound is pretty much spot on as far as I am concerned. Right now I am using it with a Black Ice F360 line stage with great results but when my budget permits I will have to try the AVA Digital Preamp.
Irwin
-
I.Greyhound or anyone with similar experience. I'd appreciate you sharing any M225 experience you have at moderate SPL. This is my critical listening comfort zone that I only know to describe as life size. In practice and depending on the music it ends up being ~55-60ish dB average as measured with a smart phone app at ~ 8' from the baffles.
Thanks much,
Allan
Hi, the amps sound very good at lower volumes. Most of Franks gear does. Of course, a lot depends upon your preamp and other gear.
-
Does anyone know the gain db spec for the M225s?
-
Mr Bill… see below for the M225 gain which is 24.
RonN5
I will try and answer your questions:
Old rule of thumb in amplifier design is (was) to set the gain so the amplifier puts out full power into an 8 ohms load with a 1 volt input. This 1 volt has been creeping up over the years to 1.5, 1.7. even 2 and higher. I don't know why. But one of the consequences is that some sources can't drive some amplifiers to full power necessitating the REQUIREMENT of having a preamp (with gain). I have always been of the philosophy that "the best preamp is no preamp" so designing an amplifier that requires a preamp doesn't make sense to me.
The two amplifier boards in the M225 have a gain of 24. This means that 1 volt in gets you 24v out. But there are 2 amplifier boards, running out of phase, so the differential output is double, or 48v. 48v into 8 ohms is 288w, a little over the M225's 225w. Turns out the input needed to drive the M225 to full power is a little less than 1v, more like 0.9v. 0.9 x 24 = 21.6v out of each amp board = 43.2v differential into 8 ohms = 233w.
Our R2X has a gain of 2, but that's a little misleading. The gain from input to positive output is 1, the gain from input to negative output is 1, and the gain from input to differential output is 2. But each amp board in the M225 only uses the positive OR the negative input. There is nothing in the M225 that uses the differential input. So the R2X does not add any gain.
If you reduce the gain of the M225 by 6 db, it will require 1.8v input (1.8v + input AND 1.8v - input which is 3.6v differential) to run it up to full power.
I have seen no appreciable noise differences in the low gain vs the normal gain M225's.
So, clear as mud - right?
Dan
-
Hello everyone.
I've been diligently following the posts about the M225. Considering upgrading from my British Roksan Kandy integrated amp. Considering the Fet Valve CFR preamp as well. Presently have Salk HT2-TL speakers and a British dac -chord qutest. As you can see I live on the other side of the globe.
Could anyone provide some feedback when listening to classical music with these amps? How do they handle full sized orchestras as well as chamber music? Any added info. will be most helpful.
Thanks so much
Joel
-
Joel, The M225s are equally adept at reproducing the scale and power of an orchestra and the delicacy and individual imaging of chamber music. One of Frank's guidelines is string tone and the M225s are spot on, listening to massed strings is a joy and a solo violin can be sweet or incisive depending on how it was recorded. The weight of a crescendo is easily felt, and the wallop of a bass drum pressurizes the room. In my experience stereo amps don't equal the soundstaging and imaging capabilities of dual monos and the M225s exemplify my thoughts by providing a wide and deep stage. Their size is convenient and lightweight a plus, I'm tired of working with 75 to 100-pound amps. The M225s represent a sensational value and top-shelf sonics in a small form factor, kudos to the AVA team.
-
KLH is correct. The 225's have a fabulous midrange and are very dynamic.
-
Thanks so much for your response. It was very helpful.
-
Interested in knowing how these 225's would drive the Eminent Technology LFT-8b floor standers and Eminent Technology LFT-16 stand mount speakers? They each have db levels in the 83 - 85 range.
-
Our new M750 mono amps would be a better choice for these very inefficient speakers.
-
Hello everyone.
I've been diligently following the posts about the M225. Considering upgrading from my British Roksan Kandy integrated amp. Considering the Fet Valve CFR preamp as well. Presently have Salk HT2-TL speakers and a British dac -chord qutest. As you can see I live on the other side of the globe.
Could anyone provide some feedback when listening to classical music with these amps? How do they handle full sized orchestras as well as chamber music? Any added info. will be most helpful.
Thanks so much
Joel
After years of ambivilance and obssessive decision making, yesterday I finally ordered the M225 with the Fet Valve CFR preamp. Must admit I am quite excited and looking forward to hearing the new setup. Will post my impressions once I've heard them.
-
Will you be using the DVA R2X to connect them?
https://avahifi.com/collections/accessories/products/dva-r2x (https://avahifi.com/collections/accessories/products/dva-r2x)
-
For sure. Ordered that as well.
-
THEY'RE HERE
I am not able to write up a professional review and relate to many technical details like others here, but I would like to tell my experience the best I can.
First, I have to start off with customer service. What a pleasure. I have been corresponding with Frank Van Alstine once in a blue moon for some thirteen years. He was always so generous with his answers about my questions and never made me feel like I was a bother - or even giving me the feeling that well, purchase something already. Just the opposite. My inquiries were always welcome and related to in detail.
So when I did finally order the new mono blocks together with the Fet Valve CFR amp, everything happened so fast. Mary was always prompt and super helpful with any issues arising, especially concerning the 220 currency in my country, and helping me with the adapter for the DVA R2X. As well as other issues that came up. Generous, prompt, and efficient.
The amps were done and shipped in one week. SInce I live overseas they arrived on November 23. One month from beginning to end. That's quick service.
Came home at night to open up the boxes and start setting up together with a good friend who builds amps and speakers himself. Turned everything on, sat down, picked a song by Dianna Krall to start things off and then..........
WOW!
The magic started. I never thought my Salk HT2TL speakers could get any better. Boy was I wrong. Both of us were amazed as was the wife. My friend turns to me and says - you did good. I realized that I just moved up the high end ladder.
What a presence, a sense of reality of the musicians, wonderful clear separation between instruments, vocals sounding as if they were in the room. And as my wife said, just a bit of softness as compared to before - a softness that made everythiing sound so much more true to the source of the music.
I love listening to jazz and acoustic music. Howe Gelb sounds like he is sitting in my living room. Patricia Barber - A Fortnight in France - a live performance - I felt like I was at the concert listening.
My biggest surprise though came with classical music. I believe this is the frist time ever I have been able to hear a proper presence of the different instrument sections as opposed to a cloud of sound that I heard without these amps on the same speakers. For all of these years I was sure that the Salk HT2TL's were not capable of handling large symphonies distinctly enough. I was wrong - I just needed the proper amps and the Van Alstine amps have really changed that and pleasantly surprised me.
So I can't stop listening to music. I love what has happened to my system with this new equipment.
I just want to say thanks to everyone here for sharing their questions and impressions of these amps, and for being so helpful when I had a query.
My cudos to you Frank and Mary and everyone at Van Alstine. Thanks so so much. You really made me one happy camper in my old age.
-
Congrats, enjoy the AVA gear.
-
Hello-
considering trying a pair of 225 mono blocks and have the following questions-
note: I am a very particular listener and have tried several power amps and none have met my expectations yet.
The best sounding amp I have had is the Pass Labs XA25, a 25 watt class A that is raved about. it is silky smooth and refined, has excellent speed and micro-dynamics, instruments and musical elements are separate and distinct and most importantly has a sweet midrange bloom and large sound state.
It does not sound identical to other pass amps FYI. the only thing i could ask for would be more power.
I also have a Parasound s21+ in the quest for more power, it sounds very good but not as good as the pass labs. I also had the Prasound JC5 and it was flat sounding and not as sweet as the a21+ or pass xa25.
What is the essence of the 225's sound?
How would it compare to the Pass XA25?
How would it compare to the Parasound a21+
Describe in terms of midrange bloom, refinement, sweetness, micro dynamics and sound stage. Thanks !
-
Hello-
considering trying a pair of 225 mono blocks and have the following questions-
note: I am a very particular listener and have tried several power amps and none have met my expectations yet.
The best sounding amp I have had is the Pass Labs XA25, a 25 watt class A that is raved about. it is silky smooth and refined, has excellent speed and micro-dynamics, instruments and musical elements are separate and distinct and most importantly has a sweet midrange bloom and large sound state.
It does not sound identical to other pass amps FYI. the only thing i could ask for would be more power.
I also have a Parasound s21+ in the quest for more power, it sounds very good but not as good as the pass labs. I also had the Prasound JC5 and it was flat sounding and not as sweet as the a21+ or pass xa25.
What is the essence of the 225's sound?
How would it compare to the Pass XA25?
How would it compare to the Parasound a21+
Describe in terms of midrange bloom, refinement, sweetness, micro dynamics and sound stage. Thanks !
I did the initial review of the 225's and compared them to my Pass X250 and I believe my A21. They are as I described in my review. They are dynamic and musical. They have good detail and an excellent midrange. Bass is controlled and powerful. I heard an A21+ in a store, so I can't tell you how it compares. However, the 225's are way better than a regular A21. The amps are not even close. As far as the XA25, I have not heard one, but I am familiar with the sound from the multiple reviews that I have read and the 225's could not be more different.
In my system (a Pass X250 amp, BAT VK51se tube preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6 speakers) the 225's were slightly forward due to my preamp. They did not have as much sound stage width as the Pass, but the midrange was full, rich, deep and musical. The 225's held their own against the X250 although I still preferred the Pass. I did bring the 225's over to a friend's who has the Pass XA100.5's, Atma-Sphere MP3 preamp and a pair of $16K Revel speakers. The 225's actually had better bass slam but thats about it. The $16K a pair Pass amps sounded much better.
-
Hi All, Hope I'm posting this correctly. Since this amp is a fully balanced setup, does AVA have one of his preamps setup as a fully balanced preamp to match this one? Ray
-
Hi All, Hope I'm posting this correctly. Since this amp is a fully balanced setup, does AVA have one of his preamps setup as a fully balanced preamp to match this one? Ray
Ray, they have a fully digital preamp that has balanced outputs.
https://avahifi.com/collections/digital-audio/products/dva-digital-preamplifier
They also have an XLR converter that works great:
https://avahifi.com/collections/digital-audio/products/dva-a2d
-
I.Greyhound Fan, you need to take home a pair of our new M750 amps to play with.
Let me know when you would like to pick up a pair.
Frank
-
I.Greyhound Fan, you need to take home a pair of our new M750 amps to play with.
Let me know when you would like to pick up a pair.
Frank
Frank, I may be able to take them home next week.
Larry
-
I also want to know what is the damping factor of this amp and it use any negative feedback loop.
-
Damping factor: you will be unhappy if you get them wet.
Negative feedback: we rarely get any of this at all from our clients and all published reviews are positive.
-
Damping factor: you will be unhappy if you get them wet.
Negative feedback: we rarely get any of this at all from our clients and all published reviews are positive.
Clever answer! :lol:
-
do the amps have to be left on all the time or turned off and on each time you use them?
thanks
-
No need to leave them on all the time. AVA equipment is ready to perform by the time you start playback. All new AVA amplifiers have built in soft start circuits to suppress voltage and current spikes at turn on and to protect their power switches and your speakers.
Three main issues with "on all the time" use.
1. It simply wastes electricity.
2. All electrical parts have a rated service life. Capacitors, resistors, transistors, and vacuum tubes won't last forever. Although lots of AVA units are still running great after 20 - 30 years of use, even then there is no use using up that service life in an often empty sound room.
3. If the unit does have a rare failure while in use you will notice it and shut it off to investigate. If nobody is around when this happens, a minor issue can turn into a major issue.
I suspect that it is more likely that you are simply breaking in your ears into the listening mode than warming up the equipment at turn-on.
Frank
-
I see a few demos for sale..would they be a good match for my Harbeth 30.2's 40 th anniversary speakers..I am using a Mac C2300 tube preamp with built in Phono...
thanks
-
They should be a good match with the Harbeths which I personally find a little laid back sounding in the systems I heard them. The 225's are very dynamic sounding.
-
thanks...I'm a bit lazy about the no 12v trigger lol...but I survived with my Pass XA25 which I did NOT like with the Harbeths but sounded great with my rebuilt Snell JIV's... I think they can be returned but I will contact VA b4 I decide to pull the trigger.
-
i am looking for input impedance values for these 225 monos
-
i am looking for input impedance values for these 225 monos
Call or Email Frank VA.
-
I emailed Frank but with the Holiday I don't think he's around till Wednesday...I will call as well
-
anyone compare them to PS Audio M700 monos?
-
anyone compare them to PS Audio M700 monos?
My son bought a pair of the M700's and returned them. They sounded a little better than his Parasound A21 but he had all sorts of problems with ground loops and issues with his DAC causing buzzing that we could never figure out. Also, with female vocals it was peaky or sharp sounding.
With that being said, my best friend bought a pair and loves the M700's and he had no issues. He eventually traded them in for the M1200's though.
-
thanks..still waiting to hear from Frank about return policy on Demos/used on his site...some 225's available
-
I haven't heard a bad amp in years but I have liked some amps better than others. The only way to find out is to listen in your system at home.
I haven't heard the DVA225, the AVA Vision SET 400 is a winner and matches perfectly with my Salk HT2-TL speakers.
I had the PS Audio M1200 in my system for a week, that's a good amp too but the AVA just sounds better with the Salk's.
Review: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176173.msg1856501#msg1856501 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176173.msg1856501#msg1856501)
The M1200 sounds better driving Eric's HHR Exotics TLS-1 speakers (https://hhr-exoticspeakers.com/)(a modern version of the Ohm F). The speakers are an inverted single cone, full range and really need the power and quickness of the M1200 amps.
I've heard PS Audio's other amp, the BHK Signature Stereo 250 at Frank Alles' house (Stereo Times Senior Editor) driving his Legacy Audio Focus SE speakers, that's a nice amp too. So nice that Paul McGowan, PS Audio CEO, prefers it to the M1200 in a recent video.
Stellar M1200 or BHK 250?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LHsrNRN7JA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LHsrNRN7JA)
And I still prefer the Van Alstine amps.
-
I still haven't heard back from Frank..does anybody know the return policy on their demos..I know it's 30 days for new products but not sure what policy is for their demos/used
thanks...
-
AVA satisfaction guarantee applies to demo units too.
Note that you will get a a quicker response from me if you email e directly at frank@avahifi.com.
I don’t visit AudioCircle every single day and sometimes miss individual messages here.
Frank
-
I did....several days ago....figured you were busy around the 4th that's why i got no response..or my e-mail got spammed lol
thank you
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261289)
I've used the M225s in my system for a little over three weeks and continue to be amazed by the outstanding audio performance of these amps.
I purchased the M225s to replace my primary stereo amp, a PS Audio BHK 250. For four years I was more than pleased by the sound qualities of this amp in my system but had continued reservations about the heat produced with the potential for degradation of it's electronics, energy consumption (75 watts in standby mode) and it's 83lb. weight.
After a short period of looking about I decided to return to using monoblock amps and came upon reviews and references to the AVA M225s. The compact form, attractive price and favorable comments regarding sound quality are what attracted me to this product.
I was expecting to take a hit in sonic performance in exchange for units that are more physically manageable. Did I ever get this wrong! With my associated equipment and the room I listen in, I've never thought I'd experience the sound qualities this combination produces. Previous power amps I've used didn't produce the clear, expansive soundstage and vibrant timbral qualities of instruments and voices I get with the M225s in my system.
This product renews my faith in recorded music.
-
Just a quick post to provide some long(er) term feedback on the M225s. I have owned a pair since September 2021 and they mate with my Fleetwood Deville speakers. To me, the amps provide everything I am looking for in a modern day amp -- dimensional sound, definition in the mid bass, clear treble, and beautiful midrange soul all wrapped up in a lightweight package. With my speakers (94ish db/8 ohms) I have never felt the amps warm to the touch even at some impressive volumes in a pretty large space.
So, if you are on the fence in wanting to try these amps -- I suggest you take the plunge with the one of the best audio buys in the market today.