[NuTreez]

Hi All and Happy Holidays!: I haven't been on in a while but I would like to thank all those that contributed to my decision on an AV high end system. I am now starting my house construction and would like to learn about whether a dedicated torroidal power panel is advantageous over rack mounts. I would need two rack mounts vs one main panel and good wire and outlets, as my amps- 10 total/ +- one meter from each speaker and a sub per speaker will draw up to 30 amps max. each. As usual costs have escalated but not out of control yet...sound proofing will take care of that...LOL. Any suggestions sincerely appreciated!!1
Regards
Tom

[richidoo]

Congrats Jason.... good idea for new circle!

Balanced power anyone?     hehe 

Maybe not just yet. Let's get a few miles on this circle before we blow it up! 

[Elizabeth]

Balanced power anyone?     hehe 

Remember in the USA, balanced lines are not allowed in residential construction.
That is to say a 60v/60v balanced "technical power" A/C line is not allowed under US code it be placed in residential in wall construction.

As for Power conditioners, I have several, and the two big ones I currently use (Furman REF20i and PS Audio P600) BOTH are balanced power, and I really like the result of balanced 60v/60v power running my stereo.

[drummermitchell]

                                                 Torus wall unit






I use a 20a+60a(both balanced)and rack mounted.
Don't know if there would be much of or any difference as they would all be dedicated.

[Syrah]

Elizabeth, you should try plugging the P600 into a big balanced power transformer.  I found that it really brought my two P300s up to the next level.  PS audio's techie guy told me that the P series really likes to be fed balanced power, and my experience backs that up.  It does neeed a big one though, 3kva +.

[Speedskater]

Tom, if you have the space an isolation transformer near the listening room would be great. Use a 240 Volt input isolation xformer with dual 120 Volt outputs. A lot less pricy than a balanced xformer system and it meets the NEC rules.

[jtwrace]

Remember in the USA, balanced lines are not allowed in residential construction.
That is to say a 60v/60v balanced "technical power" A/C line is not allowed under US code it be placed in residential in wall construction.

Then why do they sell this? 

http://www.equitech.com/newproducts/newproducts.html

As for Power conditioners, I have several, and the two big ones I currently use (Furman REF20i and PS Audio P600) BOTH are balanced power, and I really like the result of balanced 60v/60v power running my stereo.

I've been really looking at the Furman Ref 20i.  Can you tell what you've noticed and also what amp(s) you use?

[Big Red Machine]

Tom, if you have the space an isolation transformer near the listening room would be great. Use a 240 Volt input isolation xformer with dual 120 Volt outputs. A lot less pricy than a balanced xformer system and it meets the NEC rules.

I've contemplated an isolation transformer on and off or years.  Wasn't sure if it would constrain the sound or hopefully lower the noise background and let 'er rip.

Anybody else use an iso unit?

[TheChairGuy]

I've contemplated an isolation transformer on and off or years.  Wasn't sure if it would constrain the sound or hopefully lower the noise background and let 'er rip.

Anybody else use an iso unit?

On CD/DVD/DAC's an isolation transformer is one of the best and more cost effective upgrades you can make to your digital front end, I've found.  It may have positive affect in 2 ways: feeding your digital gear 'cleaner' power and acting as a wastegate to contain digital hash from leaking into your downstream amplification gear.

Because the power draw from the digi front ends are minimal, a very simple and inexpensive isolation transformer can be used.

Used elsewhere, the effects were mostly negative.  Perhaps a larger IsoTran is needed on even a preamp, but the sound was constricted when I tried it on that component. Overall, for me over the years, less power conditioning has meant better and more unforced sound in my home.  But, an Isotran on your digital gear is tantamount to sweet, sweet, music 

I use an old VIZ Isotap II (Model WP-27A) for this purpose: I think it was under $90 with shipping from ebay maybe 4 years ago.

[Syrah]

I've found the iso trannies need to be way over speced and under loaded to sound their best.  I'm using a Signal SU-3, 3kva (240v balanced input, 120v balanced output) and found it best when only powering my two P300s.  If I add my two 120w tubed monoblocks to it, it degrades the sound slightly.  If I add the monoblocks and my two subs, it degrades it even more.

Powering the two P300s, which then supply all my sources and preamp, sounds positively wonderful!

[jtwrace]

I'm using a Signal SU-3, 3kva (240v balanced input, 120v balanced output)

Can you post some pics of the build?

[jtwrace]

I've read pretty good things about these Iso on CA.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=840&txtModelID=229

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=839&txtModelID=226

[Soundminded]

Then why do they sell this? 

http://www.equitech.com/newproducts/newproducts.html
I've been really looking at the Furman Ref 20i.  Can you tell what you've noticed and also what amp(s) you use?

Most so called power conditioners offer little beyond an MOV overvoltage protector and some RF filtering with a small choke and capacitor or two. Prices are crazy for what you get. The A/V PDU is a new wrinkle I haven't seen before. Looks like a standard Cutler Hammer panelette to me with an optional isolation transformer and some RF filtering. GFCI breakers are cheap to buy as are GFCI receptacles. Add a little RF filtering and voila, there's your product. The transformer can be installed in the closed box because it is under 50 KVA. The impedance of the output circuit cannot be any lower than the upstream source impedance no matter how low the transformer impedance is. This is because the impedance is controlled by the primary to secondary turns ratio which must be 1:1.

I'd bet this thing is very expensive and could be built for far less by any competent electrician buying components. It offers no brownout or blackout protection, not even a warning. However in an industrial application its convenient and saves time and money even if it is way overpriced.

Now if you want REAL power conditioning try this;

http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/9355-UPS/9355-specs.asp?CX=3&TAASPEC=1

This is the kind of equipment engineers specify when what happens really matters.

[Speedskater]

I know that Tom (NewTreez) has lots of questions, so it may be better to answer here rather than in PM's.

First, toroidal power transformers are very sensitive to over voltage.  With AC line voltages creeping up all over the world, be careful that you buy a transformer with a high enough input voltage rating.

Second, I'm not a fan of 120V balanced power systems in home environments,  lots of rules to follow and a high initial cost and the results are seldom as good as the claims.
In this case Tom as a choice between a 240V balanced system or a 120V system.  I don't have any real knowledge about 240V balanced systems but they just may be more effective than the 120V systems.

Third, the following white papers total about 145 pages and are well worth reading:

The Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers Seminar paper
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf

The Jim Brown of Audio Systems Group white paper
"Power and Grounding for Audio and Audio/Video Systems"
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

"Power White Paper" from Middle Atlantic.com
http://www.middleatlantic.com/power.htm

or a different version of the same paper

"The TRUTH" from ExactPower of Middle Atlantic Products
http://www.exactpower.com/elite/wpapers.aspx
 

[NuTreez]

Thanks so much for the links!!!! Regards Tom