OK, so differences between copper & silver wiring..?

kristian85 · « **on:** 20 Sep 2003, 01:12 am »

What makes silver desirable over copper in the trafo windings? And, what are the sound differences?

Thanks!

Kristian Soholm
Everett, WA

John Chapman · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Sep 2003, 02:44 am »

Hello!

This one comes up a lot! To start with I don't think silver wire is 'better' than copper. I do tend to like silver and use silver speaker wires and often silver interconnects myself. Also the reason that the silvers cost more than copper TX102's is, well, they cost a lot more for us to make. The price gap is larger than any performance difference and so for anyone looking for best bang for the buck I'd say spend the bucks elsewhere in your system or grab some records or concert tickets!

For somic impressions start here at an old post at HD:

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8829

This post was done just after we got the silvers and at that time we still used standard grade copper for the TX102's. Since then we have upgraded the wire in the coppers to OCC copper and the leadouts are now cont cast copper. I took some time yesterday and today to compare and I would say the gap has narrowed further and they are quite close in overall performance now. The coppers are maybe a tad closer to a bypass and the silvers add a bit more of an organic thing. Unfortunately my main lab system was in 'flux' so I had to use my other system. I will try after VSAC to get out and listen in a few local friends systems as well.

One thing that makes these comparisons hard to do is that it seems I rarely have a copper and a silver unit that is identical in every other way and broken in about the same. The ones I used today were pretty close to being the same.

Hope this helps a bit!

Thanks!

John

ABEX · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Sep 2003, 01:01 pm »

I am finding it's the way you use Silver that will provide a certain signature. Different geometries will give different sonic signatures.

One thing I find intresting is I do not have a straight wire design using Silver that I like. (I might try a multi strand to see if that adds a dimention,but for now I like Spiral pr braids more.Spiral has a little less forward signaure then braids in my system.As yet I do not know which I prefer.

Another factor in signatures is gauge of the wires used.While I prefer a small gauge in IC's I like a heavier gauge in speaker wires because of the length and resistance factors to be overcome.

Lastly it is strange that I can use a straight run of Copper ,but not Silver. It either sounds Bland or Bright to me. Have not tried OCC yet,but maybe that would be a great way to mate a Bi-Wired pair with the OCC used for the Bass Wires. Hey that sounds like a splendid idea! I have been looking for a Copper that I could use for a bass wire and I guess I just found it!

Brad · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Sep 2003, 02:18 pm »

ABEX, he's asking about silver v copper in the transformer ( I think )

ABEX · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Sep 2003, 08:29 pm »

Alrighty!

There is another I have been following about S\C differences. It still helps to know what types of diffs there might be when using the two even if it is Connector wire I am talking about I think.No harm done!

Regards!

markos · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Oct 2003, 02:28 am »

Quote from: kristian85

What makes silver desirable over copper in the trafo windings? And, what are the sound differences?

Thanks!

Kristian Soholm
Everett, WA

Since silver is more conductive than copper it makes sense
to use it in a passive preamp, especially where a transformer
is involved (lots of wire length).

http://web.mit.edu/3.091/www/pt/pert7.html

you get a better feel of the difference by look at the bar
graph below the table, Cu is the red bar at 29 and Ag
is the higher one at atomic number 47.

shows Cu at about 60.7, Ag (silver) at 62.9, the ratio is
how much less the resistance of a silver wire is compared
to a copper one ( 3 to 4 % less). I actually thought it would
be more of a difference.

Mark

DSR · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Oct 2003, 10:05 pm »

Hi Having spent over 40 years on sonic signatures of wires..components.
Its not as simple as you seem to think... obvious really. You are ignoring effect of insulators and screening (not to mention microphonic PVC) especially nowadays with RFI and how many of the latter day electronics have switched mode power supllies. noisey RFi polluting ,Consider the screening etc ..The OTT answer is true balanced mode where I find the imterconnect becomes almost irrelevant..Sacriledge considering Ive been screaming Silver/Teflon for 20 years or so.( It was Rubber before that)

other things to consider not mention very often are effect of soldeing on silver wire and TEflon coating /long term oxidiazation of silver/ the old adage TRY IT and if it works for you OK.....