[Marbles]

In the under-$6000 price range, the TGIII is something you simply have to audition.

I think that you should audition as many as posible in your own system before the purchase.

Damn hard to A/B pre/pro's though with all the cables to hook up.

[audionutter]

I think the best value for money is the Tag McLaren AV32R processor, you can get it with 5 or 7 channel analogue bypass. Alternatively you can get the dual processor version of AV32R-DS which offers room equalisation done in the digital domain or for more bucks, the AV192.

I use the AV32R and think it is bloody brilliant, mate. I think they had some problems with the US distributor previously so maybe that's why you haven't heard much about them before. I think their website (www.tagmclaren.co.uk) has info on who is the current US distributor.

[John Dawson]

Dear TheeeChosenOne,

As is to be expected you are getting plenty of good constructive feedback on here

Since Marbles kindly mentioned Arcam earlier I have taken it on myself to post a link where you can check out the AV8 preamp / processor. This was designed from the outset to function as a top class two channel unit as well as a state of the art A/V processor. It also has outstanding video quality should that matter to you. The unit was developed in-house by the way, rather than using OEM boards, and is fully supportable in terms of SW upgrades and so on. The lead engineer on the AV8 project had previously worked on processors for two other well known UK companies, so we knew both what we had to do and what we had to avoid doing

The link is to the site of Arcam's US distributor Audiophile Systems and may be found at http://www.aslgroup.com/arcam/av8p7.htm  It includes tech specs, FAQs, review quotes, a downloadable manual, remote codes and so on.

In case you didn't know it before Arcam is the UK's leading producer of hi-fi and A/V electronics, established some 27 years ago in Cambridge, England.

Hope this helps. In any case good luck in your search for a new processor.

John Dawson (Arcam)

[Sedona Sky Sound]

At the < $6k range, I am a little confused as to why you would not go with a good $3k HT Processor and a $2k stereo pre-amp? While it may be slightly more convienent using one device (but minimally so if you plan it right), the quality, cost, and flexibility of two devices would likely provide better long-term satisfaction.

Yesterday I had a conversation with the owner of a "leading speaker and electronics manufacturing company". My basic comment to him was that a 6 month production delay in their Processor had potentially changed the product from being "revolutionary at that price point" to being "an over-expensive follower missing key features". Of course, he was not happy to hear that. The lesson I learned from the conversation was that most high-end manufacturers just do not have a good grasp the new "digital world". In the past, they expected a product (i.e., pre-amp, amp, etc.) to remain "state-of-the-art" and competitive in the market for 5+ years. If they missed the deadline by a few months, no biggy. However, the new Processors are effectively computers and if you wait 6 months to release your "new" computer it is effectively obsolete. Most "upgradeable" processors really are not (how do you upgrade to 9.1, 11.1, etc. when they come out if there is physically only 8 outputs on the back of the unit? Or better yet, how do you upgrade to Firewire II when there is no place to put a Firewire port?). Unless you are a Theta owner, you effectively end up "throwing away" the entire Processor to get the "latest" features.      

Just some casual obversations. YMMV

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

[KeithR]

I didn't have the noise problems on my Ref 50---and that was through 97db efficient horns.  I ran balanced to my sherbourne amp as well...

[Sa-dono]

At the < $6k range, I am a little confused as to why you would not go with a good $3k HT Processor and a $2k stereo pre-amp? While it may be slightly more convienent using one device (but minimally so if you plan it right), the quality, cost, and flexibility of two devices would likely provide better long-term satisfaction.

This is exactly what I was getting at a page back. Heck..he could even buy a $4K pre/pro and $2K 2-channel preamp...or $3K for each. This will easily buy a good to great quality pre/pro and 2-channel preamp.

[Sa-dono]

I didn't have the noise problems on my Ref 50---and that was through 97db efficient horns.  I ran balanced to my sherbourne amp as well...

That's probably why. I've found the normal RCA connections are much more succeptible to noise and unclean power.

[John Dawson]

At the < $6k range, I am a little confused as to why you would not go with a good $3k HT Processor and a $2k stereo pre-amp? While it may be slightly more convienent using one device (but minimally so if you plan it right), the quality, cost, and flexibility of two devices would likely provide better long-term satisfaction.

Julian - hi!  Based on my own personal experience I do not agree with this statement - there is abolutely no reason why a single box device cannot do both to a very high standard. Having said that there are I suspect few design teams that can achieve both goals to a satisfactory level - it needs a close knit team with both top quality analogue and digital hardware designers on board, plus top quality embedded programmers. Luckily (though of course luck had nothing to do with it) at Arcam we had and still have such a team for the AV8 project. It was certainly the biggest single piece of design we have ever done and took about 8 man years and $1 million to get it to production.

Yesterday I had a conversation with the owner of a "leading speaker and electronics manufacturing company". My basic comment to him was that a 6 month production delay in their Processor had potentially changed the product from being "revolutionary at that price point" to being "an over-expensive follower missing key features"....

I am glad to say it's not quite that bad in reality - but to keep up with key features you do need to be able to reprogramme the system easily and have the internal staff on hand to do the SW development. If you are reliant on a third party bought in solution like most smaller high end companies then that will be difficult to say the least. Hardware changes are more difficult still, but a modular architecture can help.
In reality a big system upgrade in terms of hardware is usually going to be a pretty heavy rebuild whoever developed the system. Owners should buy the system for what it will do for them now, rather than what it may or may not be able to do in a three years' time - which is a long time in terms of AV! Selection in terms of sound quality in 2 and multi channel formats, proper decoding of the normal audio algorithms, excellent video and last but absolutely not least an easy to use GUI would be major factors here. Plus adequate support too, though that is harder to judge unless the company concerned has a track record.

Let the debate continue!

Sincerely,

John Dawson (Arcam)

[witchdoctor]

I would have to agree with Mr. Dawson. If you read any of the plethora of reviews on the Sunfire TG3 the reviewers say it sounds like a tube pre-amp separate. Check out Stereo Times or Audio Revolution. Even read vendor Bill Larents comments on the sound of my HT system in the Eighth Nerve room. This piece can be had for around $2800 and you have
$3200 left over for a PLC and great power cord, interconnects, etc.

[witchdoctor]

From Home Theater and Sound:

Here is the big surprise. Have you ever caught a whiff of something that you hadn’t smelled in years, but you immediately recognized it? Or seen a face from your past and immediately identified it? The second I started playing my usual test recordings, I got more than just a hint of the sound of one of my favorite preamps, one that I lived with for seven years, the Jeff Rowland Consonance. I heard an open soundstage, clean and lifelike instrumental timbre, accurate depth and just the tiniest bit of darkness (as in the opposite of bright). The other aspect of the sound present in both the TGIII and the Consonance was the almost eerie lack of noise. I was constantly reaching for more and more music -- very high praise for a processor that does all the things the TGIII does

[satfrat]

I would have to agree with Mr. Dawson. If you read any of the plethora of reviews on the Sunfire TG3 the reviewers say it sounds like a tube pre-amp separate. Check out Stereo Times or Audio Revolution. Even read vendor Bill Larents comments on the sound of my HT system in the Eighth Nerve room. This piece can be had for around $2800 and you have
$3200 left over for a PLC and great power cord, interconnects, etc.

                                                                                                  I just picked up a Sunfire TG3  from A`gon for $2300. Open box but brand new w/warranty. You have me so psyched to receive this processor Witchdoctor,,, thanks.  Regards, Robin

[TheeeChosenOne]

$2300 is a very good price.  Good catch!

[satfrat]

$2300 is a very good price.  Good catch!

                     Thanks! This tube-like sound I keep hearing about intriges me as I`m also getting 2 Butler Audio #3150 tube hybrid amps to pair up with this Pro. And for a cost of $3295, the $5395 total has me under the limits of this thread for a 6 channel system. Life is good!(til next months CC statement) Regards, Robin

[witchdoctor]

Congratulations Robin. You will like it much better than your receiver. You should be fine with that Ven Haus PC and steel cones for isolation.
Will your amps take balanced connections?
I encourage you to experiment with the side axis channels too.
Let me know how you like it. Hint, before you set it up connect it to a computer using the port in the back, go to the Sunfire site, and download the latest firmware. Then install it
Here is a link to the TG3 owners thread at AVS Forum where fellow owners share info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=226473

Great score on A'Gon. I can't believe that price!!! Please post a review after you break it in.
Witchdoctor

[satfrat]

Thanks for all the info Witchdoctor, especially that AVS link. This CD download you speak of, are you telling me that a brand new processor needs a system upgrade straight out of the box? How would I go about procuring this CD? As far as the VenHaus PC being used, I`m afraid I`ll be including tat with the Yamaha when I sell it. After all, whose going to buy a receiver with no PC? I won`t be using the side channels for the time being as I`ve only got 6 channels, 3 for the front and 3 for the rear. In a 11' x 17' room, thats PLENTY enough speakers. But with a 9.1 pro and amps upgradable to 10 channels, I won`t be held back for the future. And finally, no, the amps don`t have XLR connections, only RCA. I`ll just have to suffer. Audiocircle has been worth it`s weight in gold for what it`s done for my musical pleasure and HT enjoyment. It`s the information that`s passed along with manufacturers like Wayne Waananen of Bolder Cable that has allowed me to go to the next level. Much appreciated! Regards, Robin

[witchdoctor]

A new processor may have left the factory 2 or 3 months ago. It may or may not have the latest firmware as it is being updated frequently ( a nice benefit, free upgrades). You do not need the CD. You run a DB-9 cable from the RS-232 port in the back to the serial port of your PC. Then go the the Sunfire site, click on TG3, then click on the link for software update. You click on the latest version ( currently 3.11) and it downloads into your unit. No muss, no fuss. All of the previous updates are included in the latest version. I like to check it about once a month to stay current. It will probably be easier before you set it up. Send me a PM if you need help.
I use Waynes M-80 subwoofer cable for my sub. Bogdan audio has some great silver RCA IC's with Silver Bullet plugs for $99. Try and get the best PC as budget allows. You are in for a treat!

[satfrat]

Thanks for the tip Witchdoctor. I don`t have a computer (I use Webtv), but I have enough friends that do. Is there something in the unit`s menu that will tell me it`s current software version? I have no plans on a PC upgrade other that use the VenHaus til I sell the Yammy but I went top  shelf for interconnects. I ordered 6 .5M Ridge Street Audio Midnight Silver Edition IC`s w/silver bullets for $97 ea. Seems like everythings on a July sale. BTW, I have Wayne`s Bybee inlines on my sub cable, one on each end, really tightens up the bass! Regards, Robin

[witchdoctor]

If you don't have a PC then call the # at the Sunfire site and order the firmware upgrade CD.
I have Wayne's inline on my digital cable. I'll try one on the sub.
Thanks!

[TheeeChosenOne]

I ordered 6 .5M Ridge Street Audio Midnight Silver Edition IC`s w/silver bullets for $97 ea. Seems like everythings on a July sale. BTW, I have Wayne`s Bybee inlines on my sub cable, one on each end, really tightens up the bass! Regards, Robin

Wow.  The Ridge Street promo on Audiogon, their July sale shows the Midnight Silver Edition ICs for $295.  How did you score that price?........

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablintr&1062066698

[satfrat]

Robert owes me, he`s making me up a MSE digital cable w/Bybee`s on each end. He`s never played with any Bybee`s before so I told him to take his time. That was 4 weeks ago. hehe, acually, that`s his going price. It`s $185 for a pair of .5 MSE interconnects. With shipping/paypal, it worked out to $97 a cable. Regards, Robin