[treeps50]

Hi All
Has eanyone trid to build a combined modern audiophile MC system with a 4K Home Theatre.

As per my introduction and system description I have  a highly modified Oppo serving as the core of my system but am feeling I need to go to a network and NAS solution and to incorporat a high end streaming capability both from HD music sources, but also movies from Prime/Disney/Apple.

The final analogue would be delivered though a multi-channel DAC/pre such as the Hapi, NADAC or exaSound S88. Leading up to that though I want to be able to deliver the best level of HD (DSD/PCM) out of the original file source or stream. And I want Synched 4K movie streams. I rung the dealer for the S88 to discuss this and he said there h knows of no item of hardwar that will do it (actually the Oppo does but has serious limitations), and even though the S88 has 2 spare DMI inputs, one of which I thought would be great to pass through video from an HDMI source, there is no intention to go that way.

Ideas/Solutions anyone?? or can you direct me to a series of relevant posts. (I can't search yet_)

[FullRangeMan]

Hi All
Has eanyone trid to build a combined modern audiophile MC system with a 4K Home Theatre.

As per my introduction and system description I have  a highly modified Oppo serving as the core of my system but am feeling I need to go to a network and NAS solution and to incorporat a high end streaming capability both from HD music sources, but also movies from Prime/Disney/Apple.

The final analogue would be delivered though a multi-channel DAC/pre such as the Hapi, NADAC or exaSound S88. Leading up to that though I want to be able to deliver the best level of HD (DSD/PCM) out of the original file source or stream. And I want Synched 4K movie streams. I rung the dealer for the S88 to discuss this and he said there h knows of no item of hardwar that will do it (actually the Oppo does but has serious limitations), and even though the S88 has 2 spare DMI inputs, one of which I thought would be great to pass through video from an HDMI source, there is no intention to go that way.

Ideas/Solutions anyone?? or can you direct me to a series of relevant posts. (I can't search yet_)

I will move this topic to the Home Theater Circle as you already introduced yourself in Oct2020.

[WGH]

Ideas/Solutions anyone?? or can you direct me to a series of relevant posts. (I can't search yet_)

The best solution is to post a few more times and then you can search.

I have a bunch of posts about my home theater setup which also includes a music server streaming flac and DSD files. The stereo and home theater are both integrated and separate at the same time.

A multi-channel DAC won't do streaming service (Prime, Disney, Apple, etc) which requires HDMI input and a surround processor or receiver. Many of these services stream in Dolby Atmos with 5 channel sound that is object-based instead of discrete channel-based from the old days of multi-channel sound.

There are sites where 5 channel music recordings are available that can use the capabilities of a multi-channel DAC but I never explored that route. Stereophile has a retired column "Music in the Round" that discusses equipment but I don't remember reading about any sources for these esoteric recordings. 2L has surround music.
http://www.2l.no/

My personal solution, which took many years, was to keep throwing money at the problem until it was solved.

[Desertpilot]

Hi.  I have a combination Surround Audio and Home Theater.  It's three years later and I still love it.

Audio:
-- I have a music server with 4TB of surround music files (90% classical).
-- Check my thread on well performed, recorded and mastered surround music (2 channel stereo is also available)  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177443.0.
-- USB to my S88 surround DAC.  A superb DAC.
-- XLR from my DAC to my amp (Parasound A52+).  I'm likely to change over to Buckeye Amps (Class D) https://www.buckeyeamp.com/#amplifiers.
-- Bluejeans 12 ga speaker cable to my 3 Spatial Audio X3s (up front) and two SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers for surround back (ITU configuration) plus XLR to two SVS SB Ultra 13 subwoofers.

Home Theater:
-- 4K BluRay/SACD player via HDMI to my Marantz AV8805 Pre/Pro.
-- Shield Pro streamer via HDMI to my Pre/Pro (soon to change to Apple TV 4K).
-- HDMI out to my BenQ projector
-- XLR out to my Amplifier and Subwoofers.

In order to avoid my DAC going through my Pre/Pro, I bought a Coleman Audio switch.  One channel for home theater and one channel for music.  Works great.

You can find Kal (who did "music in the round") over at "Audiophile Style" https://audiophilestyle.com/, mostly in the forums.  Also, the S88 is a featured DAC in the forums.

Yes, you can do this.  Of course, money is a consideration.

Marcus

[Phil A]

After one more post you can do searches.  I have an integrated main AV system.  It's largely due to the fact that in my old house it was about 10 years after I moved in before I completed the basement.  I have multiple systems, including secondary (more simple) 2-channel set-ups and other secondary surround sound systems (e.g. master bedroom with in-ceiling speakers).  Many moons ago I had HT pre/pros but with the more rapidly changing surround configurations in equipment, I went with a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass so that I could use my 2-channel system and then upgrade a receiver when appropriate for the HT side (my main system and a couple of my secondary systems are listed).

[SoCalWJS]

Have you thought about using a “High End” HT Receiver or Pre/Pro?

It makes everything easier for Multi Channel Sound. It’s tough to find specifics on the DAC’s used, but I’ve heard good things about Anthem w/o getting into the “Nose-Bleed” category. If budget allows, there’s stuff like Trinnov out there.

Use the Pre Outs for your preferred Amplification.

Or you can use a HT Bypass that many have.

If budget allows, that’s what I’m going to look at if/when I need to replace my Denon. Gotta admit that I am missing out on really high quality 2 channel sound, but it’s still really good. And I LOVE the ease of running everything through it.

[WGH]

I have the Anthem AVM 60 processor and the Van Alstine Fet Valve CFR preamp. I use the Anthem for 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos and the sound is excellent for surround sound. The Van Alstine is far, far superior for stereo, it's not even a fair comparison. Different tools for different jobs.

The AVM 60 doesn't have any amps, it is a processor only. The Anthem's front L&R outputs go into the CFR preamp, volume is set to 50%. The only flaw to this setup is the volume has to be lowered before switching inputs. Since the volume is only halfway nothing blows up if I forget but it is very loud. The Fet Valve CFR preamp does not have a home theater pass through. This arrangement allows me to use the AVA SET 450 stereo amp for home theater too, 225 watts per channel is not too much. The AVM 60 is wired directly to three other amps for the remaining 9 channels with a system total of 1890 class AB high current watts including the REL sub.

[treeps50]

I am trying to avoid an AV pre/pro or receiver.

I have been this route in a previous generation and it mostly seems that manufacturers target the sound and affordability of this solution several levels below audiophile multi channel. This observation of mine makes it harder of course. 

An AVM 60 is up there though and I have been looking at that as an option.

[treeps50]

Hi DesertPilot (Marcus) - What do you do for 4K video. Straight form the player? By the way - interesting overlap. My equipment rack is very similar construction. Both retired.

Been watching Kals posts with interest. Of course it looks like Kal doesn't have and is not interested solving the Synched 4K video issue.

Current thinking is to put everything, music and movies on hard drive on a server (ripping a lot of stuff),  build an HTPC with outputs to the DAC/Pre (S88 for example) and a separate output somehow via HDMI for 4K video (???). Put in necessary drivers and local network to service all this new stuff. Include Roon, Jriver to manage it all and look after DSP especially the subs. etc

I'm using Google TV Chomecast into the Oppo HDMI but its interesting to see how that is taking shape. Google seem to be keen on keeping up with what is available from the video streaming services (there key customers), but a bit behind the 8 ball with music streaming. Then they debate as to whether to build their own app for the chromecast using supplied APIs from the stream supplier, which tend to lack the functionality of the full PC browser based interface provided by the streaming service. And it is usually 6 months (or never)  after the music stream service provides an improved HD offering that Chromecast make it available

[Desertpilot]

Hi Treeps,

My server is a NUC 12, Core i9.
--  For movies
---- I select the movies channel on my Coleman Audio switch (Note: this switch may no longer be available)
---- I have all video ripped to a NAS.
---- Video files move from NAS to my server via Ethernet (2.5 gig).
---- Server connects to my pre/pro via HDMI ("media player" input).
---- If I want to watch a movie, I turn on my pre/pro and amplifiers (one amp for 5 base level speakers and another amp for ATMOS/Auro3D height speakers).
---- I select a movie using JRiver on my server.
---- I do not have any issues with sync or video presentation.

-- For Music
---- Music (typically DXD 32/352.8 surround, WAV or now ALAC) is stored on the server on NVME SSDs. 
---- Music flows to my S88 DAC via USB
---- Change the Coleman Audio switch to music.  (This routes music directly from my S88 DAC to my 5 channel amp).  No pre/pro used.

Special note:  My Marantz pre/pro has the option to allow video to pass through to my projector even if the pre/pro is turned off.  I have several Blu-ray concerts and especially operas ripped to my NAS.  If I leave my system set to music using my S88 DAC and turn on my projector, I can watch concerts and Operas while the music plays through my S88 DAC.  No video or sync issues.  Audio on Blu-ray is not particularly great so this is more of a fun exercise.  But it works.

XLR cables where possible.  Yes, there is a mess of wires behind my rack.

Marcus

[WGH]

An AVM 60 is up there though and I have been looking at that as an option.

I think you would be happier with the exaSound S88 for 5.1 music. The multichannel DAC in the Anthem is OK but nothing special. I only use the Anthem for movies and video, like Desertpilot, all video is streamed from an Intel Core i7-11700 computer over HDMI to the Anthem. The player is VLC Media Player, I can control everything from my sofa with a wireless mouse. The slight drop in sound quality is never noticed because 90% of my attention is on the screen.

Music is a mix of ripped CDs, high-res downloads, DSD64 from ripped SACDs (using an Oppo), and native DSD256. The DAC is a HoloAudio May KTE because it does zero data manipulation. PCM up to 1.536MHz is untouched. DSD has it's own resistor ladder DAC. DSD is not converted to PCM before digital-analog converter, but directly by the discrete components of the DSD digital to analog converter.

I prefer the sound of DSD to PCM so all music is upsampled to DSD256 using HQPlayer and a homemade music server. I only think the Anthem is nothing special for music because I'm comparing it to the HoloAudio May. The Anthem Room Correction (ARC) DSP can correct for the tonal differences if the front and rear speakers don't match, trading a little accuracy for a more coherent, integrated sound.


I recently downloaded 4 sample tracks of the same song to hear what the heck the article in Positive Feedback was talking about. Listening for minuscule changes in the same song four times over is boring so I have only done one run through so far, but...

The song sample is in DXD 352.8KHz 32 bit and is the most dynamic recording I have (play it loud for a jump scare). It sounds really good through JRiver without any upsampling so upsampling to DSD is not always required to get fantastic sound if the recording is good to begin with. The old 16 bit/44.1kHz CD rips need all the help they can get.

What We Hear With DXD 32-bit Files (Free Sample Downloads)
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/music-reviews/what-we-hear-with-dxd-32-bit-files/



"RCA Living Presence album Gounod Faust/Bizet Carmen Suite with Alexander Gibson conducting the Royal Opera House Covent Garden Orchestra. Recorded by Kenneth Wilkinson in Kingsway Hall, this is one of the legendary recordings Wilkinson made under Decca's contract with RCA. I've known it for decades in both original LP and in a variety reissues including the excellent 4-LP 45rpm release from Classic Records. This new release from HDTT is, by the way, absolutely terrific! It comes from a 2-track 15ips tape and the clarity and dynamics are marvelous."

This release was edited in DXD PCM from a DSD256 Master then the DXD edited master was used to generate the final DSD files using Merging Technologies Album Publishing.
DXD (352.8KHz 24/32 bit PCM) is one of the best and least destructive formats for post-processing DSD-originated digital recordings

Free download: each of the four tracks are 4:35 minutes long, 24-bit and 32-bit with 3 tracks in PCM and 1 in DSD.
352.8kHz/32-bit: Track 8, "Funeral March Of A Marionette"
352.8kHz/24-bit: Track 8, "Funeral March Of A Marionette"
352.8kHz/24-bit TRUNCATED, NO DITHER: Track 8, "Funeral March Of A Marionette"
1-bit DSD256: Track 8, "Funeral March Of A Marionette"

Rushton Paul wrote:
"... I prefer the 32-bit file on our primary system with the MPD-8. But I agree with Ann's preference for the DSD256 file on her office system using a chip-based DAC (a Teac 501); the DSD256 file sounds better than the PCM files with that DAC. Does it sound as good as what we hear on our primary system? No—the primary system is far superior. Different DACs, different outcomes."
Note: the DSD256 recording was made from the DXD352.8 and is not the original, what a shame - WGH


I have been using JRiver for 10 years as a music player, I like the way it displays music too. For the last 1-1/2 years I have switched to HQPlayer, the sound is clearer. JRiver has a slight lower mid-range bump, it's not bad and makes almost all music sound better, like an amp that is a hair warmer than neutral. HQPlayer isn't clinical sounding, it just sounds truer to the source. The player has a huge library of filters and dither algorithms so the sound can be fine tuned to your preferences, there are no wrong settings. I usually go to the HQPlayer thread and check out what the developer and users recommend, the filters are always being optimized, even the state-of-the-art can be improved on. Search for HQPlayer to read my ramblings.

The reason I mention all this is the exaSound S88 has server support for HQPlayer multichannel playback. HQPlayer has an unlimited free trial too, the manual is included with the download. Looks like fun kids.

HQPlayer 5 Desktop - upsampling multichannel audio player for Linux, macOS and Windows
https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

[Kal Rubinson]

Been watching Kals posts with interest. Of course it looks like Kal doesn't have and is not interested solving the Synched 4K video issue.

Not sure I know what it is.

[morganc]

Okto makes a fine Dac competes with Holo Audio to my ears and they have a multi channel Dac for a great price.

https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm

[VinceT]

I too also enjoy MC stereo.

Right now just using my AVR in a 6.2 set up in multichannel stereo mode.
 I don't use a center channel, and use the mains to do the heavy lifting. My rear and height channels just really expand the stereo sound and are there for ambiance. I run my dac into my preamp, and I have 2 sets of outs on my pre, one goes to the power amp for my main speakers, and other set of pre amp outs to my AVR for rear and height channels. With the AVR I can adjust levels and eq and really dial everything in. For my purposes the AVR running the height and rear channels work fine, I could also upgrade to a multichannel amp for those channels, but for what I use it for I don't think it's needed.

AVRs or HT processors are great for multichannel, but do agree they benefit from using them for processing and use the outs to a better quality amp.