Tube Recitification...a vote?

modwright · « **on:** 24 Sep 2006, 05:48 pm »

Hi guys, I am working a bit with tube rectification to see if I feel that it is a viable option for future designs. The phono stage has an outboard supply and this is a possibility if I feel that there is a sonic advantage. I have always been of the impression that tube recitification added too much warmth and softened the highs and lows to an unacceptable level. The added warmth to some degree can be welcome, provided that it doesn't color the sound unacceptably. Specificly, I am don't want to lose low bass definition, impact and control. I also don't want to lose high-end detail and sparkle.

I am really just looking for market input at this point. Those who have owned preamps with and without tube rectification, is there a general concensus about the benefits or not?

I welcome all of your feedback.

Thanks,

Dan

Bill Baker · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Sep 2006, 05:59 pm »

Hello Dan,
I guess i will start things off. In my opinion, tube rectification would be a great option and if done properly (which we know you can and will), you would not sacrifice much in regard to upper end extension and dynamic control.
Yes, tube rectification does have a degree of slowness but I think many will admire the new level of body and fullness depending on the rectifier (tube) of choice and power supply design.
I vote ABSOLUTELY but then again, I'm a "full sound" type of guy.

rpf · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Sep 2006, 11:09 pm »

I don't know Dan. The SWL 9.0SE has a good amount of body and while I would respond to a bit more harmonic richness I would not accept it at the expense of the PRAT, dynamics and extension that the SWL does so well. Its PRAT is why I prefer the SWL in my system to the CJ ACT2 (!).

I use a tubed amp (CJ MV60SE) and tubed CDPs so obviously this affects my feeling on the matter.
On the other hand I have Bybees on both the pwr. supply and analog outs and I have a suspicion that the Bybees on the analog outs flatten or thin out the midrange somewhat, based on my experience with a variety of carbon fiber products.

BTW, Congratulations on the HI-FI + review. Very impressive.

Rob F.

modwright · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 02:40 pm »

First of all, thank you for your feedback and support.

I have been listening to a prototype supply for the SWLP 9.0SE lately, that has a tube rectifier and it does a lot of things very well. It does add body and improves soundstaging etc. I don't feel that there is a lack of bass response and the highs still seem very extended. I still need to listen head-head with a SS rectified unit to make a final determination and compare PRAT. I agree that the SWL 9.0SE has a quality that I don't want to sacrifice. So far so good however.

Thanks again,

Dan W.

woodsyi · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 03:39 pm »

Dan,

This is strictly my opinion, but SWL 9.0 can sound just a tad bit thin with some speakers. This is in comparison to a 6sn7 based preamp. With the small tubes, I think I would like a little more body with tube rectification if you don't lose (or just a little) the rhythm and pace of the ss version. Bear in mind that I am a sucker for vocal music. I like my voices full and robust without being mushy and bloomy.

JoshK · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 06:34 pm »

You could also try a hybrid Graetz bridge, some say it offers the best of both.

JerryH · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 11:45 pm »

That sounds good, Dan. Probably most of us would say a little more robust and better soundstage would be nice. And I'd agree that's an area that could be improved on ever so slightly. Personally, I'd sacrifice a trace of PRAT for that. Tweak on, Dan! You've been doing just that for years so count me in on the ride.

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 01:56 am »

Dan, My vote is YES, I like tube rectification, bring it on, baby!!

Curly Woods · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 03:55 am »

I am no longer employed in the audio industry, but I sold high end audio for over 20 years. In those years of working in this industry, I always preferred a tube rectified supply in any tubed products. My first thoughts when listening to any audio system, is does the music move me. I quit enjoying the audio that I sold and many others praised in the late 80's thru the 90's as the sound moved more and more to a sterile and lifeless sound that was praised by many as "fast and detailed". This included tube and solid state electronics. To each his own, but I have never heard a violin that sounded thin or sterile, and this is what I was hearing. If I do not hear the sweetness of the real thing, it is not what I think of as musical. I decided that I did not enjoy it anymore and stepped away.

There seems to be a shift back to a more musical sound, that to my ears is appealling and magical. This is not to say that it has tubby bloated bass and rolled off highs. All that I wanted then as now is an enveloping sound with the richness that I hear when instruments and vocals are heard live, without amplification.

I have never heard the Modwright products before so I have no idea as to their sonic signature. Dan seems to have a great following and if you feel that you can make your product more appealling, go for it! If you do not find the sound to your liking, then so be it. My biggest issue with the majority of high end audio designers today is that they do not listen to their customers. They focus on impressing the audio reviewers. When I first started customers trusted their own ears more. To me you have shown a great deal of customer care by bringing this to a forum of users and possible future customers. You have done a great job so far in your company's short life. Trust yourself and what your vision is for Modwright. I do think that you are on the right track though with a tube rectified supply

mtodde · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 02:16 am »

I would like to see tube rectification offered

modwright · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Oct 2006, 02:24 am »

Thank you all for your input. My listening tests have proven to be very good and I do believe that we will include tube rectification in future products. It has opened my eyes to a number of things. Please keep your eyes on our site and this forum. I will share new developments as they are finallized.

Thanks!

Dan

woodsyi · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Oct 2006, 02:46 am »

Great Dan,

I guess this means the "beta" test SWLP with tube rectified PS will take a little more time? I can't wait to hear the reports from RMAF (assuming you will have one of these there). I am really upset that I can't make it.

modwright · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Oct 2006, 04:13 am »

I know that this has taken a while and I do apologize for this. I will say however, that I feel that it is worth the time that it has taken and I am very excited about the result.

The tube rectification design is actually already worked out. I was just trying to be sure that I liked the result and to get a feel from customers about tube recification in general.

Please email me directly for more.

Thanks,

Dan

TomS · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Oct 2006, 11:37 am »

Dan,

If you go forward, is this something that would be supplied as part of the external power supply, such that it could be used as an upgrade and/or replacement for existing 9.0SE type supplies used on both the CDP mods such as Sony 999 and 9100, as well as existing SWL 9.0SE preamps?

Tom

modwright · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Oct 2006, 04:38 pm »

Tube rectification as upgrades.

I am evaluating a PS 9.0 with tube rectification right now and will be drawing conclusions soon. I have made several other significant improvements to the power supply in terms of voltage regulation also. If this proves to be a significant upgrade, we will offer an upgrade program for owners of our SWL 9.0SE units and 'Truth' modified players with external power supplies.

If we do so, the options for customers with players will be either to have their existing PS upgraded (if current enough) or replaced. There will be pricing for both upgrade and replacement of the external power supplies. The reason for the difference is that our early mods featured a different power supply design and upgrading of this would not be an option. It could be replaced however.

I believe that we will offer a PS upgrade for the SWL 9.0SE also. We are looking at a few different things and trying to decide what this upgrade package would include. More on this later...

Bottom line, we always strive to offer an upgrade path for all of our equipment.

Thanks,

Dan W.

modwright · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Oct 2006, 06:26 am »

The rectifier tube used is a single 5AR4.

Dan

modwright · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Oct 2006, 04:44 pm »

Yes, it is a great tube and does offer excellent possibilities. Our units will all ship with Sovtek 5AR4's and I will leave it up to the customer to experiment with other options and exotics. I haven't even tried any 'special' 5AR4's yet and am still VERY impressed with the sound.

Thanks,

Dan

tberd · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Oct 2006, 01:29 pm »

Solid state = sound . Tubes = MUSIC . Can't be any clearer than that .

If the bass or treble is rolled off and mushy then the equipment wasn't designed correctly . Can't think of how many times I've been to hi end stereo shops and left unmoved by the sound . Can you guess what they had on display ?? Solid state everytime .

tberd

mtodde · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Oct 2006, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 11 Oct 2006, 04:44 pm

Yes, it is a great tube and does offer excellent possibilities. Our units will all ship with Sovtek 5AR4's and I will leave it up to the customer to experiment with other options and exotics. I haven't even tried any 'special' 5AR4's yet and am still VERY impressed with the sound.

Thanks,

Dan

Dan, Will the SWLP have tube rectification since it has the external power supply?

woodsyi · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Oct 2006, 02:04 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 11 Oct 2006, 04:44 pm

Yes, it is a great tube and does offer excellent possibilities. Our units will all ship with Sovtek 5AR4's and I will leave it up to the customer to experiment with other options and exotics. I haven't even tried any 'special' 5AR4's yet and am still VERY impressed with the sound.

Thanks,

Dan

Have a good show this weekend but step on that production when you get back.

I already have a couple(different production years) of NOS NIB Blackburn Mullard 5AR4s waiting for the preamp to get back home. aa