AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Power Conditioning => Topic started by: Rod_S on 1 Apr 2016, 12:03 pm
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As the title asks I'm curious if anyone has compared the two? If so what were your impressions? Granted the products are a bit different with the P10 being a regenerator but both provide low output impedance and both seem to provide voltage regulation (if using a BIT/Torus AVR unit). I'm wondering if this power regeneration technology really works (i.e. true audible and visual improvements) making the PS Audio units better than the typical power conditioner competition or its an excuse to up the cost of their power products.
Thanks
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Anyone?
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Some folks swear by the regenerators. Many more folks have abandoned them because they can rob the soundstage (their words). I have always been tempted to own a large regenerator. I have had the smaller units and the Canadian brand once. Overall I have had better results with BPT, Furman, and now Silver Circle balanced power transformers. BPT and Silver Circle are both out of business now. The Torus units are reasonably priced but don't forget they also need to have headroom as well. So buy the biggest one you can afford so the transients can be accommodated by the transformer. Don't size it on the low side. My Silver Circle has a 5 kva transformer in it. Opened up my soundstage.
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Is it possible to run the BIT20 on a 15 amp circuit?
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Is it possible to run the BIT20 on a 15 amp circuit?
No.
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No.
Thanks.
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The main thing to remember about 'regenerators':
The regenerator is actually an AMPLIFIER. It outputs a specific signal of 60Hz. PERIOD.
So any regenerator really uses more power than any transformer based filtering device.
If one worries about carbon footprint, wasting power etc.. a regenerator is a pretty inefficient way to clean up the AC.
Also there is a myth that a regenerator is a 'perfect' AC source. Not true. The signal it creates is better, but not perfect. The output being worse if the input is worse.
The prior PS Audio generation of devices was like if 10% bad in, then 2% bad out..
The newer ones may improve this some. (to like 1% ) but still not perfect.
I own two power conditioners, one of each type (I bought both used.)
I have a Furman REF20i (toroidial filter with capacitor line voltage 'stiffening')
And a PS Audio P600 regenerator. The main joy of this particular product is it can alter the AC out frequency. So I use it at 110Hz AC output instead of 60HZ. (this is a whole 'nother topic)
Either one using only a portion of the total rated power matters... Using only a portion allow a better result. The PS Audio P600 I use for just a few digital components, so it is always loafing along. I want it to last forever.. Since it is a rare bird. No one makes a regenerator with variable AC frequency anymore!
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Is it possible to run the BIT20 on a 15 amp circuit?
Yes it is, you simply need a power cable with a 20A IEC and 15A plug. Easily accommodated by most cable companies.
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Yes it is, you simply need a power cable with a 20A IEC and 15A plug. Easily accommodated by most cable companies.
I agree. (However there are folks who disagree about the safety of doing so.)
In my view, if you know you are not going to pull even 15 amps from the unit.. I would say go ahead.
Pangea recently introduced 20 amp style IEC end with the 'standard' 15 amp wall end powercords.
Years a go i swapped the 20 amp IEC receptical in my Furman REF20i conditioner to a 15 amp heavy duty IEC so I could use an aftermarket powercord... (clearly I am not worried)
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Thanks for the replies guys. I will start a thread on the Bryston circle to get feedback from Bryston and other users as well. I have some other questions I want to run by, such as AVR and suppression, and list of gear that I currently have and might consider in the future.
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I have to say looking at audioaficiando site (over the years),there have been lots of no happy customers with ps audio units(just sayin)
I have had my Torus(s)for ..................yrs not one problem...end of story :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:,I could keep going but why???????????? :D.
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no audio suppression here or compression,Torus or BIT,well worth it for the music.
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While new to the Torus product, I totally agree with the comment above. Almost immediately improvement in my music playback.
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It makes no sense to buy a 20 amp product and plug it into a 15 amp circuit. You have wasted your money. Buy the 15 amp version or put in a 20 amp circuit. Remember that you will never use 15 or 20 amps as the breaker probably trips at 80%.
Measure your system current draw. It is ridiculously lower than you think it is. Odds are that a 15 amp product is more than enough.
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It makes no sense ...
Measure your system current draw. It is ridiculously lower than you think it is. Odds are that a 15 amp product is more than enough.
Ahh, many who use power conditioners mention it is really best to use them only well below their limit for best sound.
The rated to 20 amps conditioner would never even know the wall could only produce 15 amps.. if it never 'asks' for more than ..say ten amps...
So I say your 'concern' is 'noted' but of little value.
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I have to say looking at audioaficiando site (over the years),there have been lots of no happy customers with ps audio units(just sayin)
I have had my Torus(s)for ..................yrs not one problem...end of story :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:,I could keep going but why???????????? :D.
You ever start up that laundry mat with all that 240 you got? :D
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The rated to 20 amps conditioner would never even know the wall could only produce 15 amps.. if it never 'asks' for more than ..say ten amps...
So I say your 'concern' is 'noted' but of little value.
You made my point. Why buy a 20 amp unit then? Pay less for the 15 amp unit and enjoy. And he'll never use 10 amps either. But having the headroom in the unit is needed in my book to handle the transients so the tranny has time to recover if you put the entire system through it.
I never said I was concerned about safety in this scenario as it is unlikely to ever be a problem. It is an economics and practicality issue.
And the 20 amp unit does not need an adapter cable as the 20 amp unit has a standard plug without the dogleg 20 amp-only feature. Easily seen in the owners manual on-line.
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The 15 amp circuit was in reference to my desktop rig that's upstairs. For my main rig that I'll be building in the future from scratch, I'll likely be getting a 20 amp circuit and that will be drawing more power than my desktop rig. So I would like to future proof it if possible if there aren't any safety issues.
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The 15 amp circuit was in reference to my desktop rig that's upstairs. For my main rig that I'll be building in the future from scratch, I'll likely be getting a 20 amp circuit and that will be drawing more power than my desktop rig. So I would like to future proof it if possible if there aren't any safety issues.
I have an old Torus RM20. At the time (many years back), it was only $200 more than the RM15. So I used it in the old house with the adapter/power cord (20 amp IEC to 15 amp plug) that came with it. When I moved into the new place (a few years back), I had them put a 20 amp circuit for it. So my thought process was similar to yours.
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Werd,no commercial laundry mat yet,but seems now the neon lights in down town Hong Kong are a lot brighter now running 240v.
reminds me with my Bryston 7sst's+4Bssts with one Torus(15a)and a few DD-15's
The 15a sounded the same as the shunyatas I had ..6 and 2's nothing...just like the wall,which I believe the 10a couldn't handle the five Brystons.
Adding the 20a and splitting the amps and subs between the 15a and 20a was a HUGE difference.
Thats why with the now 28's and 7 up front with the 1812 sub(WOOF..WOOF) we went 240v and a 60a T jus cuz
Back rack is 20a 240v T as it handles 2 x7bsst2,BDA -2 BDP-2,JVC projector,Mutec,Oppo,Arcam ect.
Totally at ease and so is the music,can you say effortless with Slam.
Little James Brown...Rock my Soul
Content with what I have,except I have been experimenting with commercial amps...Crown ect.
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A use an RM20 and plug everything into it. TV, HT receiver, Direct TV box, Oppo, PS4, music server, DAC, preamp and 845 amps. Is there a way to calculate if I am taxing the unit?
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A watt meter would tell you, but you aren't. Only think on that list that can draw significant current is the 845 amps. You can use a kill-a-watt to measure the current draw for a quick test.
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Good to know, thank you!
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You made my point. Why buy a 20 amp unit then? Pay less for the 15 amp unit and enjoy. And he'll never use 10 amps either. But having the headroom in the unit is needed in my book to handle the transients so the tranny has time to recover if you put the entire system through it.
I never said I was concerned about safety in this scenario as it is unlikely to ever be a problem. It is an economics and practicality issue.
And the 20 amp unit does not need an adapter cable as the 20 amp unit has a standard plug without the dogleg 20 amp-only feature. Easily seen in the owners manual on-line.
I have the Torus RM20 and used it at AXPONA. Easily tripped it with our setup. We added another 20 amp circuit for the amps. Still tripped the circuits. Finally had to go with three 20 amp circuits to have enough power. Speakers used are 95 dB efficient at 30 Hz, but over 100 dB/1 watt from 50 Hz and up. :)
The 20 amp unit does need an adapter cable or plug if using a 15 amp outlet. Picture is from the BIT20 manual and matches my cord and RM20 manual:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161986)
Menards carrys adapters.
(https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/media/MARMO002/ProductLarge/T-Blade.jpg)
(https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-cords-cord-management/extension-cords/t-blade-plug-adapter-15-amp-to-20-amp/p-1483082283444-c-6410.htm?tid=-5786122224137896446)
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Doesn't surprise me about big amps. I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for my RM20 and also have two 15 amp circuits for other stuff in the main system. The main system is an integrated AV system with a preamp with HT Bypass and basically all the 2-channel audio stuff is plugged into the RM20. In my old place, I had one separate 15 amp circuit with the 20amp IEC to 15 amp cord. The rest of the items in the old place were plugged into the great room common outlets. So when I had the new place wired, I decided that in addition to the 20 amp circuit, it won't hurt anything to have a bit extra.
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Anyone ever put a "Kill-a-Watt" meter on these current hungry systems?
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I recently picked-up a PS Audio P300. Surprisingly, the immediate difference I noticed was the video quality on the TV; much sharper picture and richer colours. I also plugged in my mac mini and disc player. I think there is an improvement, although I haven't used it with my longer term speakers yet for proper comparison.
One of the reasons I purchased the P300 is the ability to input 240V & output 120V, plus alter the frequency from 60hz to 50hz. This allows me to use it for source and preamp electronics in different regions. I have two living locations with different voltages, so I can now use my 120V components in a 230V region. This is particularly important for Krell electronics, which have 50/60 hz detectors that won't allow use with basic transformers.
My question here is: Does anyone know of any other company making power regenerators with variable output voltage and frequency similar to the PS Audio P300 & P600? I am thinking of picking up another model for use and comparison.
Thanks for any help you can provide.