[OlesonMD]

We just spent over $10,000 in upgrades to our theater, Epson 5050UB, Yamaha CX-A5200, Klipsch RF-7 III's, plus more.

But I can't watch any video! The characters lips start moving, and then the audio starts. Is there a way to advance the audio, or retard/delay the video?

I have auto delay lip sync, but that only makes it worse!

[Doublej]

I am not sure I understand your issue correctly but does page 111 of the manual help?

Lipsync (Lipsync)
Adjusts the delay between video and audio output.
Setting range
0 ms to 500 ms (1 ms increments)

This setting is available only when “Delay Enable” (p.126) in the “Setup” menu is set to “Enable” (default).

[OlesonMD]

I am not sure I understand your issue correctly but does page 111 of the manual help?

Lipsync (Lipsync)
Adjusts the delay between video and audio output.
Setting range
0 ms to 500 ms (1 ms increments)

This setting is available only when “Delay Enable” (p.126) in the “Setup” menu is set to “Enable” (default).

Yes, I have checked this. But any delay in audio is THE problem. I need to adjust the audio to accelerate it to match the video.

The actors lips start moving, then the sound (audio) comes, lagging behind the lip movement. The lips then stop moving, but the audio lags on for another micro-second. It is very disturbing!

I need to speed up the audio, not delay it. An "Audio Advance" setting is what we need, so I can speed up the audio to catch up with the video.

[WGH]

What is the source? It may have lip sync adjustments too.

[Doublej]

Now I get it. This thread might help you uncover the source of the problem. Good luck.

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/lip-sync-audio-lagging-how-to-delay-video.85490/

[OlesonMD]

What is the source? It may have lip sync adjustments too.

The source is a Panasonic DMP-UB900. It has sync settings, but only delay, not for advancing the timing. I have the same issue with Youtube. But not on broadcast cable TV.

When auto-sync is selected, my Yamaha processor does a 90 delay. That only makes it worse. I have selected zero delay. Better, but still not good with the audio delayed behind the action.

[Doublej]

 Have you tried taking out the sound processing e.g. either using the Pure Direct or Stereo Mode to see if the problem goes away?

[WGH]

You may have to join AVS Forum and post your question in the Yamaha CX-A5200 thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2597145-yamaha-cx-a5200-aventage-11-2-channel-av-preamplifier-musiccast.html

[OlesonMD]

Have you tried taking out the sound processing e.g. either using the Pure Direct or Stereo Mode to see if the problem goes away?

I might try having the audio go to the processor, and the video straight to the projector from the DMP-UB900.

[OlesonMD]

You may have to join AVS Forum and post your question in the Yamaha CX-A5200 thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2597145-yamaha-cx-a5200-aventage-11-2-channel-av-preamplifier-musiccast.html

I'm a member already. Thanks, I will ask there!

Found what might be the problem, and it is the audio processing. Either the DMP-UB900, or the Yamaha. I ran the audio from the DMP-UB900 thru the L&R analog output into a two channel analog system. Ran the video, doing a side-by-side listen and watch test. There was a major (MAJOR) echo (delay) of the processed audio. Zero delay in the all analog, two channel stereo audio.

HDMI bitstream = major audio delay


Analog Audio out (2 Channel Stereo) = perfect, in sync, audio with video


This is my case. Not sure where the problem is in processing...the UB900, or the CX-A5200?


When selecting audio-out, multi channel 7.1 on the Blu-ray player, there is no delay in audio. Perfect sync with the video. But this deletes the whole purpose for getting the new Yamaha...7.2.2 surround sound, Dolby Atmos.


When using any processing in the CX-A5200 (A.I.), the program is not watchable due to sync issues. I must have a very low tolerance for peoples lips moving first, and then a few ms later, the sound is there. Kinda like watching an old foreign film, with poor dubbing of English.

[WGH]

But this deletes the whole purpose for getting the new Yamaha...7.2.2 surround sound, Dolby Atmos.

Return the Yamaha. Hopefully you bought it at Crutchfield so you can replace it with an Anthem AVM 60 for not much more money. The AVM 60 is a wonderful sounding machine with absolutely no harshness, it sounds like a high end preamp, although I only use it for video and blu-ray movies. I have one and am 100% satisfied. If you still have the lip sync with the Anthem at least you have a better processor.

[OlesonMD]

Return the Yamaha. Hopefully you bought it at Crutchfield so you can replace it with an Anthem AVM 60 for not much more money. The AVM 60 is a wonderful sounding machine with absolutely no harshness, it sounds like a high end preamp, although I only use it for video and blu-ray movies. I have one and am 100% satisfied. If you still have the lip sync with the Anthem at least you have a better processor.

The problem has been isolated, and it's not the CX-A5200.

I have swapped out no less than 4 Blu-ray players. And I found one (1) that is in perfect sync...Samsung 4K UBD-KM85C. two Panasonic's were used, both of them former flagship models. And one early Sony player. I was shocked with the Sammy, watching audio/video in perfect sync.

What is the root cause of this? Why do the other players not sync up? My Panasonic DMP-UB900 (great player) was terrible, nearly unwatchable (for me).

One thing I notice is the Yamaha actually displays the Samsung model number when it is on and connected. The other players just get a generic Blu-ray Disc display. Does the Samsung communicate better? Secret handshake?

What say you?

[WGH]

Those darn secret handshakes, glad you found the problem   

[OlesonMD]

Those darn secret handshakes, glad you found the problem   

Well...the Samsung comes very close to being in sync. But it's an early 4K generation, and my much newer (and better) Pansonic DMP-UB900 is not even in the ballpark for sync.

Here is my main issue: We run L&R audio out (analog) to the fronts. Everything else, C, L&R Surrounds, Rear Surrounds, Height Channels, all go through HDMI. Doing this in the past, with my NAD T-163 Pre/Pro was not a problem. Of course, the video went straight into the projector, with audio only going to the NAD.

In this configuration now, the echo from the front L&R and the C is deafening. It sounds like we are in some very deep canyon with a huge amount of reverb!

All new cables, every sound field tried, no help. None. I guess most people simply tolerate being out of sync.

My position is, the audio/ video is perfect, or imperfect.

[Doublej]

My guess is that most people run every channel in their AVR in the same way. If you do that does the problem go away?

[OlesonMD]

My guess is that most people run every channel in their AVR in the same way. If you do that does the problem go away?

The echo goes away, but then we have the audio/video out of sync. When running the L&R channels in analog output, with the Center off, it is perfectly synced. With the Center on...major echo.

[Doublej]

The echo goes away, but then we have the audio/video out of sync. When running the L&R channels in analog output, with the Center off, it is perfectly synced. With the Center on...major echo.

Weird? Do you have access to another AVR? Perhaps the Yamaha is the root of the problem.

[OlesonMD]

Weird? Do you have access to another AVR? Perhaps the Yamaha is the root of the problem.

Sold my Integra DHC-80.3 9.2. (should have kept it!). But...we do have an NAD T-163, which is a very musical pre-amp. But it has zero HDMI inputs!

The analog stereo audio travels faster than the HDMI audio? The L&R analog goes to a two channel all tube pre-amp, and a solid state power amp. No processing. Pure sound as was intended by the audio engineer.

[Doublej]

Sold my Integra DHC-80.3 9.2. (should have kept it!). But...we do have an NAD T-163, which is a very musical pre-amp. But it has zero HDMI inputs!

The analog stereo audio travels faster than the HDMI audio? The L&R analog goes to a two channel all tube pre-amp, and a solid state power amp. No processing. Pure sound as was intended by the audio engineer.

My novice guess is yes analog stereo audio travels faster than the HDMI audio. If one looks at the HDMI cable pin out there is no indication that each channel is carried on it own 'wire'. Thus a stream of bits needs to be converted into N channels by feeding the bits through a processor.


https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/audio-video/hdmi/hdmi-pinouts-connections.php

[OlesonMD]

My novice guess is yes analog stereo audio travels faster than the HDMI audio. If one looks at the HDMI cable pin out there is no indication that each channel is carried on it own 'wire'. Thus a stream of bits needs to be converted into N channels by feeding the bits through a processor.


https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/audio-video/hdmi/hdmi-pinouts-connections.php

And therein is the problem...slow audio thru HDMI. It is watchable (barely) with the old 1st generation 4k Samsung. But both of my Panasonic players (very nice), and my older Sony, are not watchable at all. At least not for me. It does not bother my wife, however.

I have even bought all new 8K HDMI cables, thinking that would help. Wrong! Certainly I'm not the only one with this problem? Everything is new, or pretty new (DMP-UB900 - 2017). Maybe everyone else does not notice, does not care, or just tolerates it?

Note this problem did not exist with my 1080P Panasonic projector. But the new Epson 5050UB is another story. Beginning to wish I had not upgraded to all "state-of-the-art" 4K. Much happier before, plus my bank account was in better shape.