AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Single Driver, Wide-Bandwidth Speakers => Topic started by: rodge827 on 9 Oct 2015, 09:16 pm
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I hope to get to Charney soon for a listen...
http://charneyaudio.com/
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Please report back to us. The Concerto reminds of the Hedlund Horn (the one I heard had very little bass).
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The Concert is definitely an almost faithful take on the Hedlund horns. The designer of the Hedlunds seem to have given up speaker making in other to pursue other things. While I am not aware of the details, I am pretty sure that this new speaker makers have gotten permission to pursue these designs.
To be such a large horn I am surprised that the bass you heard was not adequate. But then the quantity of bass in many horn designs seem lacking in comparison to other less demanding designs.
PS: At least the prices seem reasonable and not on the price gauging territory that many people would charge for such intricate designs. Maybe I am getting old and brainwashed with so many zeros that other makers charge for simple BR boxes with expensive crossovers and mediocre drivers.
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The Hedlund Horns were homemade, in a friend's average sized living room powered by 300B mono-blocks. He had added stiffeners for the throat and demonstrated with and without his big sub. But like many single driver fans he wasn't into full bass production (has since gone in for multi-driver O.B.).
We are all conditioned by what system we're listening through. I'm still using Brines Acoustics M18-F200 but recently have added, at Duke LeJeune's recommendation, ambience tweeters (that follow the Late Ceiling Splash concept) that very nicely reinforce imaging and treble response (review forthcoming).
With prices up to $29,000 USD, I'll have to disagree with you on pricing, although they do start off at reasonable prices (for audiophiles).
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I also still have the FTA-2000 that Bob made for me back in 2004. I cannot believe it has been almost 11 years. Since then I have also commissioned another pair of speakers from him. And if excess itself was excessive, I have also ordered another pair of TL speakers, this time around I have decided to send him a pair of EJ Jordan JX6HD drivers that will be helped with a pair of Audax carbon fiber 8" midwoofers. I am looking for that Fullrange sound that also digs deep in the low end.
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Always thought a small driver like that Jordan with small mid/woofer in TL would be a promising approach: combining foundational (TL room friendly) bass, sufficient size to provide mid/bass body, with good treble dispersion. Please post your impressions friend.
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Very interesting. Looking forward to your listening impressions.
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Will be at Charney Audio today :D listening to the Maestro and Concerto 8)
Will post impressions accordingly.
Chris
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The Concerto and Maestro are definitely not based on the Hedlund horn. They are derived from / copies of the old commercial Carfrae [nominally] tractrix horns dating from the mid-late 1990s. The Maestro (originally known as The Little Big Horn) is still occasionally to be found, being produced by small-scale manufacturers. The former is less frequently seen though, presumably because of its size, and because it is harder to build, since it expands in 3 dimensions.
The Alerion was a compact commercial design by the late Terry Cain for Lowther America (although the one pictured appears to have a Fostex FE108ESigma on a metal baffle, they state the original DX55 in the text). I suspect the configuration was derived from one of the original BK series Fostex horns, albeit with the overall dimensions revised & refined for the intended driver.
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The Concerto and Maestro are definitely not based on the Hedlund horn. They are derived from / copies of the old commercial Carfrae [nominally] tractrix horns dating from the mid-late 1990s. The Maestro (originally known as The Little Big Horn) is still occasionally to be found, being produced by small-scale manufacturers. The former is less frequently seen though, presumably because of its size, and because it is harder to build, since it expands in 3 dimensions.
The Alerion was a compact commercial design by the late Terry Cain for Lowther America (although the one pictured appears to have a Fostex FE108ESigma on a metal baffle, they state the original DX55 in the text). I suspect the configuration was derived from one of the original BK series Fostex horns, albeit with the overall dimensions revised & refined for the intended driver.
Yep, the Concerto is similar to the Carfrae Big Horn (never sold in the US) and Alerion which is being built with permission from Lowther America. The Maestro is Charney's own design with a proprietary driver.
Charney wanted to build a horn without sub woofers to augment the low end. He has succeeded with the Concerto and Maestro. I can't comment on the Alerion since it wasn't on display for listening.
I hope to post my thoughts on last Saturdays visit to 'Charney. I stayed later than expected (didn't want to leave)) and have had a full schedule since.
Chris
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Ok, I finally have some time to write about my visit to Charney Audio.
The first thing Brian Charney did was to take me to his shop where the horns are built. The shop was impressive with a C&C wood cutting station, drill press, machinist lathe, a host of work benches, and cabinets full of jigs and tools. He was in the process of cutting cherry stands for a Maestro order and explained how the whole process works. I have never seen a C&C machine at work and it was very interesting to watch. Brian explained how with the use of a C&C machine that every part was exactly the same for every horn built. No variations from the design as can happen from hand cutting and building. The two things that struck me the most were how humble Brian is and how impeccably clean the shop was. Sorry to say I have been in restaurants that aren't as clean as his shop.
So it was on up to the house and listening room. We entered the room form the side and to the right was a pair of Maestros and the 300b amp he builds. To the left was the Concerto and his own built custom reference gear. The room is 14'x19'x9' with a listening chair, sofa, music rack, and curtains on the doors and window. The only aftermarket room treatments are Michael Green Corner Tunes in each of the 4 upper corners.
Up first were the Meastro's a 6.5" proprietary driver with a 108' horn.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130377)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130378)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130379)
I'm not the best photographer (as seen by the flash dots) and this pic fails to show how wonderful the Maestro looks. Fit and finish is impeccable like a fine piece of furniture. As horns go they are in the midsize category approx 44"h 20"w30"d the Amp is the 300b amp that Brian built and offers on the site. The amp is maple wrapped with the fit and finish as impressive as the Maestro, perfect in every way. The source was a Sony carousel CD player. Yeah that's right an el' cheapo bargain basement cd player and wait it gets better. A pair of unnamed interconnects and lamp cord as speaker wire! The amp and source were plugged into a cheap timer that was plugged directly into the wall. This can be seen in the pics to the right of the amp.
Enough description! How does the Maestro sound?
Real good! No wait, very real good! No wait again, very very real good!
(and you thought I would use some audio hyperbole such as awesome, giant slayer, and whatever terminology a pontificating reviewer would use)
Brian had a favorite demo disc from Bermiester(sp?) and played a pipe organ piece. It began with low notes that vibrated the floor, WOW a 6.5" driver hitting notes so low I got a foot massage! The movement continued and a sense of space came over me. The echos from the hall and the air moving through the pipes drew me closer into the music. The highs were so sweet and subtle they floated to my ears.
At this time I knew I was in front of something special. I always demo with drums and my favorite drum track is, "Rusted Root Live Disc 2 track2 Ecstatic Drums", 8 1/2 minuets of prodigious skin pounding ( hey this about music, be nice!). The Maestro held up like a champ and didn't break up with the chest pounding drums altering my heart rhythm. Aside from the drums there are cymbals, whistles, an array of percussion instruments, and the crowd! All of which were presented in full scale life like manor with some parts played outside the right and left of the horns. Next up "Rodrigo y Gabriela Live In Japan" This is a favorite disc of mine and I like to take on demos. The fast pace acoustic guitars can sound like mud on a lesser system. Not so with the Maestro! Gabriela was off to the left about 2' behind the horn and Rodrigo in like position behind the right horn. Imaging and soundstage were spot on and the overall sound was fantastic! I could feel the interplay between RyG and theirs with the crowd. At one point Gabriela talks to the crowd in Japanese, I don't know what is said, but it was the cleanest I have ever heard it!
I could go on and on about the Maestro but I think you get the drift. I liked it and it is worthy of a listen/purchase. With a source and cabling on the very low end and a high end amp this horn rocked and floated on the air. A 6 1/2" driver? Damn! Still shaking my head over this...
BTW Charney Audio will be at the NY Audio Show 11/6-11/8
Concerto coming soon...
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Awesome write up. Thanks so much for sharing your impressions with us.
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Hi,
Thanks for the interesting post about as I have never heard of this company before. The Alerion appears to be affordably priced.
Are you going to buy some of their speakers?
Cheers Rod
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Hi,
Thanks for the interesting post about as I have never heard of this company before. The Alerion appears to be affordably priced.
Are you going to buy some of their speakers?
Cheers Rod
I hope to buy the Maestro one day, I need to unload some gear to do it though. The Concerto is way out of my price range.
Chris
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I hope to buy the Maestro one day, I need to unload some gear to do it though. The Concerto is way out of my price range.
Chris
Chris, How are you doing with your Maestro's? I had a chance to audition the Companion 2 weeks ago. All i can say is that Brian has a deposit from me. I kept an open mind but wasn't sure they would tick all the boxes for me especially the bass. I was way wrong! I truly have never heard anything like these! I was in total awe. It wasn't like listening to music. It was like the performers were in the room. You are bang on with your review so i will not repeat what you wrote especially since you conveyed it better than i could.
I urge anyone in the NJ, PA, NY, MA, CT area or beyond to get a listen to the Charney speakers. Brian is a no BS type of guy and like Chris mentioned there are no high dollar cables etc. in his system. Brian is a talented designer/builder and is very low pressure. Actually he is no pressure. I called and he answered all my questions. His response is just come listen for yourself and decide. He said forget everything you have read etc and let your own ears decide.
Wound up being a costly audition. LOL Time to sell some stuff. Anyone want/need Crown XLS2502? LOL
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Chris, How are you doing with your Maestro's?
Very well thank-you :D
Finally someone else to convey how good Charney Audio Horns sound. They are something to be experienced and as Brian mentioned:
He's response is just come listen for yourself and decide. He said forget everything you have read etc and let your own ears decide.
So true! Far too many reviewer opinions out there, but an actual audition is the way to go. There are no tricks used in his room, and it is minimally treated. Listening to Tommy Emmanuel with the Maestro's as I write this...
Chris
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Very well thank-you :D
Finally someone else to convey how good Charney Audio Horns sound. They are something to be experienced and as Brian mentioned:
So true! Far too many reviewer opinions out there, but an actual audition is the way to go. There are no tricks used in his room, and it is minimally treated. Listening to Tommy Emmanuel with the Maestro's as I write this...
Chris
Chris, great to hear you are enjoying them. What do you have in your system? I still can not believe what i heard out of these.Like you said no tricks or super expensive cables, sound treatment, tricks, or power conditioners. Incredible sound! Can not wait to get mine. In the mean time i am building up a dedicated listening room in my new to me house along with 300 other things. LOL
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The Concerto and Maestro are definitely not based on the Hedlund horn.
Nice looking speakers. They use the floor/wall boundary to multiply the size of the mouth which is needed for bass. They conform to the smooth taper design philosophy which may mean excess midrange bleed-thru the horn, but the rear mouth will mitigate this.
The Concerto looks an awful lot like the DIY Dalek (http://www.frugal-horn.com/daleks.html) by Bob Hayes (lat e2006) with a Ron Clarke style diffusor.
(http://charneyaudio.com/images/concertoside_full.jpg?crc=3896697077)
dave
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Not been here for a long while and was surprised to see charney selling alerion, this was designed by John ver halen of lowther America and built by Terry Cain. John sent me the plans for these and I still haven't got around to building them but will soon. I have already tried dx45's I have with the notch filter and another back loaded horn I had around and they were quite good, going down to 31hz allbeit 15db down, but then they were not designed for the drivers. I did commission a cabinet maker to build the boxes when I didn't have the time but he pulled out part way through.
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Nice looking speakers. They use the floor/wall boundary to multiply the size of the mouth which is needed for bass. They conform to the smooth taper design philosophy which may mean excess midrange bleed-thru the horn, but the rear mouth will mitigate this.
The Concerto looks an awful lot like the DIY Dalek (http://www.frugal-horn.com/daleks.html) by Bob Hayes (lat e2006) with a Ron Clarke style diffusor.
(http://charneyaudio.com/images/concertoside_full.jpg?crc=3896697077)
dave
Dave, these are something to look at. Brians woodwork is outstanding. I was short on time during my audition of the Comapnions but he invited me back just to listen to the Concerto. I will have to have a bigger listening room in my next house for these. Heck this house only has 7 foot ceilings. LOL
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Chris, great to hear you are enjoying them. What do you have in your system? I still can not believe what i heard out of these.Like you said no tricks or super expensive cables, sound treatment, tricks, or power conditioners. Incredible sound! Can not wait to get mine. In the mean time i am building up a dedicated listening room in my new to me house along with 300 other things. LOL
The Maestro uses the Omega RS7 full range driver in my 11x15x8 room.
My current set up is: PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport>Aural Thrills Active Silver Digital Cable>Digital Amplifier Company(DAC) HS Dac>DIY Jena Labs IC>CR Developments 300b Int.Amp>Jena Labs Speaker Cable>Maestro's. I have been auditioning a DAC Stereo Maraschino Int Amp for the last couple of weeks and like what it does with the RS7 driver.
Room treatments are at the first reflection points on side walls and rear wall behind my chair. Maestro's are 6.5'apart and 1' from front wall toed in for the sound to go past my ears over my shoulders. (You will want to toe the Companions to point at your nose)
Power conditioning is a Tripp Lite Double Conversion UPS modified with super quiet Nexus Fans. Power Cords are Aural Thrills Active.
Nice looking speakers. They use the floor/wall boundary to multiply the size of the mouth which is needed for bass. They conform to the smooth taper design philosophy which may mean excess midrange bleed-thru the horn, but the rear mouth will mitigate this.
The Concerto looks an awful lot like the DIY Dalek (http://www.frugal-horn.com/daleks.html) by Bob Hayes (lat e2006) with a Ron Clarke style diffusor.
dave
The Concerto is modeled after the Carfrae Big Horn. They look alike but that is where the similarity ends. The Concerto, Companion, and Maestro are designed to couple with the room for bass extension. The platform under the rear is there to help enhance bass and is necessary with carpet.
When coupled properly the bass is clean and pure with no room node issues. No need for a sub or extra bass enhancement, unless the room is too large, and like every other speaker bass augmentation could be necessary. Charney's demo room is 14x19x9 which is about the size limit for Maestro and Companion. The Concerto can handle a larger room. Charney has done extensive R+D to get the chamber just right and believe me he has! Every time I make it over to Brian's I can't believe my ears. Music is experienced and engaging not listened to. Amazing 3D presentation with perfect tonal balance and 0, zip, nada, peaks or Lowther "shout". That's with digital...vinyl is mesmerizing and completely immersive! Kinda like a 3D movie in a theater (Digital) and the same movie in IMAX (Analog).
If your looking for a great speaker, and live within a couple-a-three hours of Somerset NJ, or can fly into Newark (arrange with Brian to pick you up) it is well worth the trip. Your ears will thank you!
Chris
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The Maestro uses the Omega RS7 full range driver in my 11x15x8 room.
My current set up is: PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport>Aural Thrills Active Silver Digital Cable>Digital Amplifier Company(DAC) HS Dac>DIY Jena Labs IC>CR Developments 300b Int.Amp>Jenabs Speaker Cable>Maestro's. I have been auditioning a DAC Stereo Maraschino Int Amp for the last couple of weeks and like what it does with the RS7 driver.
Room treatments are at the first reflection points on side walls and rear wall behind my chair. Maestro's are 6.5'apart and 1' from front wall toed in for the sound to go past my ears over my shoulders. (You will want to toe the Companions to point at your nose)
Power conditioning is a Tripp Lite Double Conversion UPS modified with super quiet Nexus Fans. Power Cords are Aural Thrills Active.
Sounds like a nice system. I will probably grab a tube amp down the road but just got a Benchmark media DAC3 HGC with the AHB2 amp. Picked up a Cambridge CXC transport. All cabling is from Benchmark also. I have to say the sound from my current cheap floor standers is surprising! There is zero noise from the Benchmark equipment and it is very clean and transparent. I think it os gonna be a nice match with the Companion.
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My neighbors sons are home on winter break and we spent about 5 hours listening yesterday. Both are musicians with a concentration in classical,and couldn’t get enough. They are 19 and 20 so we listened to a lot of great music recorded long before they were born. Landmark rock albums from the 60’s -80’s and jazz from the 40’s -current.
Awesome day! :thumb:
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My neighbors sons are home on winter break and we spent about 5 hours listening yesterday. Both are musicians with a concentration in classical,and couldn’t get enough. They are 19 and 20 so we listened to a lot of great music recorded long before they were born. Landmark rock albums from the 60’s -80’s and jazz from the 40’s -current.
Awesome day! :thumb:
Spoiling them with the outstanding Charney sound at a young age. Good stuff!
Getting closer to having mine. Sold the Crowns. Thank you ohenry! Have an Outlaw pre/pro next on the chopping block next if anyones interested. Want my Charneys asap! LOL
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John Richardson from The Part-Time Audiophile put Charney on the "2017 Best Of List"
Charney Audio Companion Mk2 ($5,850-$9,550 a pair, depending on finish/driver options)
Richardson: The pair I auditioned was configured with a single pair of Voxativ AF 2.6 drivers. The cabinets themselves were horn-loaded using a smooth-horn configuration to eliminate diffraction and reflection. The sound of these transducers, powered by Charney’s own hand-built amplifiers, struck me as just right, as in how real music ought to sound. A company to watch."
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174918)
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Beautiful, but as a former structural engineer looks like it's going to tip over (appears to be front heavy/could fall on it's face, could fall left/right with the tiny outriggers, and rear board needs a spike to combat spongy carpet & pad and to be more substantially weight wise for improved balance/better secured to the cabinet). As an owner it would drive me crazy. Sorry.
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John Richardson from The Part-Time Audiophile put Charney on the "2017 Best Of List"
Charney Audio Companion Mk2 ($5,850-$9,550 a pair, depending on finish/driver options)
Richardson: The pair I auditioned was configured with a single pair of Voxativ AF 2.6 drivers. The cabinets themselves were horn-loaded using a smooth-horn configuration to eliminate diffraction and reflection. The sound of these transducers, powered by Charney’s own hand-built amplifiers, struck me as just right, as in how real music ought to sound. A company to watch."
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174918)
Good to see Brian get a little well deserved good press. Thanks for sharing!
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Beautiful, but as a former structural engineer looks like it's going to tip over (appears to be front heavy/could fall on it's face, could fall left/right with the tiny outriggers, and rear board needs a spike to combat spongy carpet & pad and to be more substantially weight wise for improved balance/better secured to the cabinet). As an owner it would drive me crazy. Sorry.
All unfounded in my real life hands on test. Believe me i thought the same and checked.
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Finally going next Friday to pick mine up. :D More to come.
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Beautiful, but as a former structural engineer looks like it's going to tip over (appears to be front heavy/could fall on it's face, could fall left/right with the tiny outriggers, and rear board needs a spike to combat spongy carpet & pad and to be more substantially weight wise for improved balance/better secured to the cabinet). As an owner it would drive me crazy. Sorry.
Looks can be deceiving! Without actually seeing them in person your post is sophomoric at best. Charney’s horns are light in weight and can be knocked over if thumped into, no different than most all stand mounted monitors. However they are designed to be placed near the front wall and close to or in the corners depending on the room and listening preference. This is due to how the horn couples with the room for bass response. I would say with proper placement the horns would normally be out of most traffic areas in a house.
As the bard James William Buffett penned in his song Mañana:
“Don’t try to describe a Kiss concert if you’ve never seen it”....Sorry
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175947)
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Finally going next Friday to pick mine up. :D More to come.
:thumb:
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Looks can be deceiving! Without actually seeing them in person your post is sophomoric at best. Charney’s horns are light in weight and can be knocked over if thumped into, no different than most all stand mounted monitors. However they are designed to be placed near the front wall and close to or in the corners depending on the room and listening preference. This is due to how the horn couples with the room for bass response. I would say with proper placement the horns would normally be out of most traffic areas in a house.
As the bard James William Buffett penned in his song Mañana:
“Don’t try to describe a Kiss concert if you’ve never seen it”....Sorry
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175947)
Love how your system looks! :thumb:
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So i picked up the Companions last night. Brian spent 3 plus hours with me educating me on positioning these, his past audio equipment adventures and tons of other stuff. Seriously just a top notch human being. Let me say that he has owned tons of equipment and i am talking stuff most of us can only dream of. So i trust hid opinion, advice and guidance on equipment and set up.
As far as how they sound so far.
I am speechless to be honest! I worked on positioning a bit and they just sound incredible! Detail, transparency, speed, timing, decay and bass even at extremely low listening levels. The width, depth and height of the soundstage is outstanding. Like wife sleeping in the bedroom next to the left speaker low level. LOL
I am 18 inches off the front wall before toe in pointed at my nose like Brain recommends. At that point i am 5-1/2 ft to the middle of the drivers width wise and sit 5-1/2 to6-1/2 feet away. They exceed what top monitors and electrostats can do but with bass!
I know Brian really wants me to go the tube route but man my system is sounding incredible right now. Benchmark dac3 hgc and ahb2 amp and cabling along with cambridge cxc transport and mac air book for running tidal. I took the equipment out from between the speakers and it opens things even more imo. Brian suggested putting it back but i am gonna leave it where it is. Next up is dedicated AC lines.
Like i have mentioned one needs to audition these to really appreciate what they have to offer. They really and truly sound like the musicians are in your room.
I am an extremely satisfied client of Charney Audio and feel that the Companion would have been a great purchase at even double the price.
I hope Brian doesn't read the double the price bit. Lol
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+1
Welcome to the club :thumb:
Charney Audio horns are very special indeed!
Brian is a knowledgeable audio guy...he’s been there and done that with so much gear over the years.
Enjoy
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+1
Welcome to the club :thumb:
Charney Audio horns are very special indeed!
Brian is a knowledgeable audio guy...he’s been there and done that with so much gear over the years.
Enjoy
Thank you Chris! Yes they are very special. I will upgrade the dx55-dx65 but it will be a year or two as i want to enjoy these right now. Hard to believe there is more detail and transparency to be has out of these!
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flat4,
Single driver: +1 (I run that too.)
Near-field listening: +1 (I do that too.)
Benchmark DAC3 & AHB2: +1 (Very good gear.)
Taking the gear out from between speakers: +1 (I do that too.)
Dedicated AC lines: (I have that too, but only did it 'while I was at it' during room construction. Power aberrations are local (can be due to your own appliances, old industries sharing your substation, crummy power distribution coming to your house, etc.), so if not a problem I wouldn't waste time/money on it.
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flat4,
Single driver: +1 (I run that too.)
Near-field listening: +1 (I do that too.)
Benchmark DAC3 & AHB2: +1 (Very good gear.)
Taking the gear out from between speakers: +1 (I do that too.)
Thank you JLM. I really feel my combination is on point. I took the gear out from between the speakers when the old speakers were in the system. Only thing i did this weekend was add the Companioin speakers. I do not tale the shotgun approach on changes. One change at a time.
Near-field is sweet. More of a product of room only being 9ft wide. It is 17ft deep but only 7ft ceilings. My wife summed it up and she is not into music/equipment at the audiophile level. She said it sounds so smooth and doesn't strain. She also said it was like wearing headphones. I was like dang. She gets it and i wasn't imagining what i am hearing. LOL
This is an old farm house i just moved into. A200 amp service was installed in 01 but most of the rooms are on one breaker for some reason including all my equipment. Can't even plug in a clock radio as it is all static with it shut off. I will be tackling that project in the next month i hope.
If you are ever near the Scranton, Pa area you are welcome to stop by for a listen.
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Just an update. The Companions just continue to surprise me and make me smile. They are incredibly coherent and super smooth with 0 listener fatigue! I find i just keep turning up the volume! I just can't get enough and does not what kind of music i hit them with. Classical, jazz, metal, electronica, pop etc..
Combined with my Benchmark amps and dad/pre i couldn't be happier! :thumb:
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Ah yes, another truth seeker becomes aurally enlightened! 8)
Well done Grasshopper! :thumb:
Dude, glad your loving your Companions! :D
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Ah yes, another truth seeker becomes aurally enlightened! 8)
Well done Grasshopper! :thumb:
Dude, glad your loving your Companions! :D
Thanks man! :D
Just got a vm from you. You called during a listening session and i didn't hear the phone. Sitting down for dinner and to watch sx. I will try you tomorrow!
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So still loving these speakers more and more. I have put some 5x7 carpets on my sidewalls and Michael Green corner tunes in my room. It settled down the room and made a big improvement in my soundstage and imaging. I also am now 33 inches off the front wall and 19.5 inches to center of the drivers from the sidewall. I also have them set with no toe in. Nice increase in depth of soundstage.
These are the things that are optimizing these bad boys. YMMV
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So still loving these speakers more and more. I have put some 5x7 carpets on my sidewalls and Michael Green corner tunes in my room. It settled down the room and made a big improvement in my soundstage and imaging. I also am now 33 inches off the front wall and 19.5 inches to center of the drivers from the sidewall. I also have them set with no toe in. Nice increase in depth of soundstage.
These are the things that are optimizing these bad boys. YMMV
Chris i apologize. I still owe you a phone call.
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That’s ok was just listening to my Maestros and loving it :D
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So still loving these speakers more and more. I have put some 5x7 carpets on my sidewalls and Michael Green corner tunes in my room. It settled down the room and made a big improvement in my soundstage and imaging. I also am now 33 inches off the front wall and 19.5 inches to center of the drivers from the sidewall. I also have them set with no toe in. Nice increase in depth of soundstage.
These are the things that are optimizing these bad boys. YMMV
I have been moving mine around a little lately too. They are currently deep in the corners of my 11x15x8 room with the driver 38" from the front wall and 23" from the side walls toed in to go just past my ears, and 7'3" apart from center of the driver. A 3'x6' absorption panel mounted on the rear wall, pleated shade in between the speakers and Michael Green Corner Tunes in all four corners. Nothing on the side walls is needed since they are toed in. I have been playing around with the reflection points for quite a while and this is the best for my room. BTW I just wallpapered and added some shelving to the room. I use the space as a home office, music room, and man cave.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178516)
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Seems my system room and sound are evolving at an astonishing rate! It is now a 2 channel theater room also. I was playing with a dual core for room correction. Liked some of the things it did but preferred my Benchmark dac 3. I could see the potential of room correction and picked up the new Dspeaker X4 from Walter at Underwood. All i can say is wow! Totally smoothed out the entire frequency range from top to bottom! Added to the width and depth of soundsatge gave me even more defined space around instruments and when i run my subs for movie watching it integrates them in a way i couldn't come close to.
X4 has been running non stop and is sounding better by the day as it breaks in. Looks like the antimode 2.0 and Benchmark are gonna be going on the chopping block. I didn't think i could improve much but it keeps getting better and i am really glad i have the Charneys as my mains. It is the one thing i do not need to change/upgrade.
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As an owner of the Dual Core it's good to get some "real world" feedback on the X4. :thumb: Flat frequency response is revelation, isn't it?
Have you tried using the Dual Core and DAC3 together (Dual Core for DSP and DAC3 for D>A conversion) and compared to the X4?
Last year had Schiit Freya and Gungnir MB in house. Rolled tubes on the Freya, tried all three settings, tried every possible combination with and without the Dual Core, ended up sending them back (after blowing one of the nice NOS tubes). They made 10% of my iTunes ripped CD library sound better but 30% sound worse. Note that I'm retired so have 40+ years at this and can put in lots of listening hours. Really wanted to like the Schiit stuff as I like the upgradability and no nonsense product design.
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JLM i did not try that combo. I could see the benefit of room correction so in a weeks time i jumped up to the X4.LOL I have thought about usin the dac3 with the x4 but i think at this point it will not be any better. Might be worse adding another set of interconnects etc?
Yes cleaning things up is definitely a revelation and believe me i was very sceptical but i like to stay open minded. Glad i am. As you know X4 has peq and tilt controls etc.. I have yet to find a need to boost or cut anything over what autocorrection adjusted. Seriously loving it!
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What I meant was using the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core (for DSP only, digital input and output), then inputing to the Benchmark DAC3 for digital conversion and preamp combination versus the X4 by itself. Wonder how that would compare.
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What I meant was using the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core (for DSP only, digital input and output), then inputing to the Benchmark DAC3 for digital conversion and preamp combination versus the X4 by itself. Wonder how that would compare.
JLM, no i didn't try that. Honestly probably won't at this point. X4 is working really good so will probably just put the 2.0 Dual Core and the Benchmark up for sale. Using them with no room correction etc just as dac/pre for me in order of best to not the best lol goes Benchmark, with X4 not too far behind and dual core last by a significant margin. It isn't bad by any means and for the price it is something i could live with.
When running Dual Core with room correction i still preferred my Benchmark. So i feel with X4 i have pretty much combined best of both worlds with one set of interconnects and one power cord.
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Flat4,
Brian is right try a low powered tube amp. 2a3, 300b there are others but Lowthers love tubes. I have owned Lowthers for over 20 years and they sound incredible with my 7 watt tube amp.
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Flat4,
Brian is right try a low powered tube amp. 2a3, 300b there are others but Lowthers love tubes. I have owned Lowthers for over 20 years and they sound incredible with my 7 watt tube amp.
Not a tube guy and they were sounding good with my ss. Taking my system in a different direction so these along with my Kinergetic subs and Benchmark Dac3 will be in the classifieds in the fall.