[Steve1138]

Hey Danny and Everbody else and Hobbs for keeping me updated.
I just ordered the X-Voce kit w/ upgrades.
Could you comment on the latest response & performance and how it addresses Amir's findings of the old AV123 unit he tested on ASR?
And get some of yr standard assessment measurements onto the kit page on the web site - and do us a video ..?

I'm currently running an active Linn AV5120 centre in Active mode from 2 channels of their Akurate 4200 four channel 200wpc amp  (with the dedicated filter cards for this speaker installed in the amp) and intend to drive the X-Voce with the same two channels of that amp passively but split the X-Voce crossover into outer Bass drivers (one amp channel) and the inner woofers + Tweeter circuits on the other channel of the 4200.
The front LR of the Home Cinema are active Linn Kabers and the 6 ATMOS wall mounted surrounds are all Linn Tukan bookshelf speakers which I've extensively modified with a No-Rez type product I bought in Switzerland and my own new crossover design with better than cheese level parts. While their final response is OK for surround speakers it's by no means as flat as could be and still has a few phase and cancellation issues probably from the wide crossover overlap, so I'd be best sending you one to measure and upgrade, and then modify the fourth pair I acquired for my son.
All the best from a cold and wet Black Forest in Germany.   Love what you do..  keep up the great work

[Danny Richie]

Amir got ahold of a 12 year old production model produced in china by AV123. The one that he had was wired wrong causing some cancellation in the lower crossover region. It may have also had a cap failure on the board on the lower woofer circuit. The resonance that he found (unknown to him) was caused by the ringing of the metal grill that AV123 used to cover the back of the open baffle drivers.

You have to also remember that anything that they can get ahold of of ours is just going to be a hit job. They hate all of us real audiophiles and listeners of music and we are just sellers of "snake oil".

We are updating that model now in a couple of subtle ways. One is that the low wattage rated electrolytic cap on the lower woofer circuit is being replaced by a poly cap on the remaining AV123 crossovers that we have for them. We are going to send those out with the budget version.

Then we have an option for a point to point wired crossover using higher quality US made coils, and Sonicaps in the tweeter circuit. We are also tweaking the tweeter circuit slightly for the new latest version of the tweeters being made for them.

They measure great and sound fantastic.

It is what I am putting in my new revamped theater system.

[Steve1138]

great to hear Danny
And what I was hoping for. Hobbs said you were pretty much done with it and I placed my order last night asking for the parts to do P to P so i can drive the outer woofers separate from the inner woofers and tweeter with two channels of the Linn Akurate 4200 amp currently driving my Linn AV5120 speaker in active mode. The cabling is already in the wall  behind the shelf and the amp in the cabinet directly below the shelf.  If i need to pay a surcharge for the P to P option just let me know and we can settle.
For the top cover I'll probably do a wooden frame in MDF or narrow wooden battens and use small Neo Magnets to hold the corners down.  That won't ring !! Certainly won't using metal grating.
If its good enough for your Home Theater I'm sure it'll be good enough for mine. Ya never know I might want to build more for my front L & R !

Hoping you'll put the measurements up on the Kit page and do us a video...

[Steve1138]

It sure looked like what he had for testing was a rough example, and some worrying findings.   I certainly hope the one I'll be building behaves a bit better than that.
But what about Amir's comments on measuring lower frequency response below 200 Hz? seems a reasonable question to me.

Maybe partnering with Erin in Oklahoma (I think, which is just over the state line)  to use his Klippel might be beneficial. can't hurt.

[corndog71]

I always took the metal grills off.  They looked ok but were ultimately problematic. 

[SoCalWJS]

Looking forward to hearing/seeing more about new X-Voce options!

[Danny Richie]

It sure looked like what he had for testing was a rough example, and some worrying findings.   I certainly hope the one I'll be building behaves a bit better than that.
But what about Amir's comments on measuring lower frequency response below 200 Hz? seems a reasonable question to me.

Maybe partnering with Erin in Oklahoma (I think, which is just over the state line)  to use his Klippel might be beneficial. can't hurt.

I just built out mine and my response does not look like Amir's. We also took a room response measurement that included the floor reflection and it still looked great.

I also think Erin is in Georgia.

[RusskySam]

I just built out mine and my response does not look like Amir's. We also took a room response measurement that included the floor reflection and it still looked great.

I sure would love to see those, as well as potential fixes for those of us who own an X-Voce or two.

Amir got ahold of a 12 year old production model produced in china by AV123...  The resonance that he found (unknown to him) was caused by the ringing of the metal grill that AV123 used to cover the back of the open baffle drivers.

So, what should I, as an owner do? Do I just blame everything on Mark's misdoings? Remove the metal grates? Buy a new crossover without the cheesy Chinese parts? No offense, Danny but a few years ago you yourself were selling the old AV123 stock you acquired from Santiago. That icluded fully assembled speakers and fully assembled crossovers. Also, if I read this quote right...

We are updating that model now in a couple of subtle ways. One is that the low wattage rated electrolytic cap on the lower woofer circuit is being replaced by a poly cap on the remaining AV123 crossovers that we have for them. We are going to send those out with the budget version.

...it looks like you're still selling those 12 year old stock AV123 crossover boards (as a budget version).

I have no beef with that.

In fact, the reason I am here on this board and aware of GR-Research IS AV123. I started my journey over a decade ago with X-LS Encores. I learnt that there was a prodigy designer in Texas who creates speakers that are way above what their cost is. Danny, most of my speakers are your design. Either AV123 implementation or bought second hand. I own around 10K worth of your speakers. I'm not a hit man, just a doubting Thomas. At times I don't like what I hear and I question if it's me, my room or design flaws. I believe you when you say that your speakers at your place sound fantastic... But what do I do to make speakers of YOUR DESIGN sound great at my home?!

P.S. I'm not an experienced designer like you are but I do have a multimeter, a calibrated mic and REW that I could try and use to help find a problem. Alternatively, I don't really mind renting a U-haul and taking >1000lbs of speakers to your place in Dallas.

[Danny Richie]

I sure would love to see those, as well as potential fixes for those of us who own an X-Voce or two.

So, what should I, as an owner do? Do I just blame everything on Mark's misdoings? Remove the metal grates? Buy a new crossover without the cheesy Chinese parts? No offense, Danny but a few years ago you yourself were selling the old AV123 stock you acquired from Santiago. That icluded fully assembled speakers and fully assembled crossovers. Also, if I read this quote right...

...it looks like you're still selling those 12 year old stock AV123 crossover boards (as a budget version).

I have no beef with that.

In fact, the reason I am here on this board and aware of GR-Research IS AV123. I started my journey over a decade ago with X-LS Encores. I learnt that there was a prodigy designer in Texas who creates speakers that are way above what their cost is. Danny, most of my speakers are your design. Either AV123 implementation or bought second hand. I own around 10K worth of your speakers. I'm not a hit man, just a doubting Thomas. At times I don't like what I hear and I question if it's me, my room or design flaws. I believe you when you say that your speakers at your place sound fantastic... But what do I do to make speakers of YOUR DESIGN sound great at my home?!

P.S. I'm not an experienced designer like you are but I do have a multimeter, a calibrated mic and REW that I could try and use to help find a problem. Alternatively, I don't really mind renting a U-haul and taking >1000lbs of speakers to your place in Dallas.

I have several options for you. Give me a call later today and I'll go through them with you.

I will also shoot a video on the X-Voce and X-Statik later this week to go through all the options.

[Chops]

I still have my X-Statik's and X-Voce, all in mint condition after all these years and moves. Mine were some of the first shipped out from AV123, though these days I refer to them as GR-Research. BTW, I could have sworn the AV123 X-series was built in South America, not China.

About 6 years or so ago, I spoke with you and did the full crossover upgrade on the Statik's as well as the No-Rez. The X-Voce hasn't been used in many years now, probably 8 years or so as I got out of the HT gig. It's also still full stock. I have to say though, out of all of the various center channels I had over the years, that X-Voce was the absolute best, and was a perfect match when I was using a projector with a 110" screen.

I was going to set up a tiny HT in our new house in the spare bedroom until our son decided to move back in... Always something. 

[bhassel]

I was going to set up a tiny HT in our new house in the spare bedroom until our son decided to move back in... Always something.

I bet he'd love a small HT in his bedroom.

   

[Danny Richie]

Mine were some of the first shipped out from AV123, though these days I refer to them as GR-Research. BTW, I could have sworn the AV123 X-series was built in South America, not China.

They originally were made in China. Later versions were made in Columbia, South America.

[Chops]

I bet he'd love a small HT in his bedroom.

   

Nah... He's all about video games, in a very annoying way.

[Chops]

They originally were made in China. Later versions were made in Columbia, South America.

Ah, okay. Then I have the later versions. 

[petemoss]

Looking forward to the video...I have the X-Statics and the X-Voce and have to say that i love them but have experienced exactly what he is mentioning...on the XStatics definately a huge low frequency hump...This is the REW graphic from  a year or two ago on my X-Statics






No mater where i moved them i could not get rid of it.  I did use some eq to clean it and ultimately, For other reasons moved them into a different room where it actually worked in my favour since the added low frequencies sound great in there.  Keep in mind...i love these speakers and always get compliments on the sound from visitors even as is.

On the X-Voce...i definately feel that the vocals, male especially were supressed and it it is has seemed lacking.  I will definatly check out the cross over and see if i also have a out of phase wiring .   

Danny...thanks for looking into all this and looking forward to your video and options.

[Danny Richie]

Looking forward to the video...I have the X-Statics and the X-Voce and have to say that i love them but have experienced exactly what he is mentioning...on the XStatics definately a huge low frequency hump...This is the REW graphic from  a year or two ago on my X-Statics

We set up an older model and was able to replicate that response. Most of that is caused by the floor reflection. We have a newer crossover design that takes the floor reflection into account and has a flat response.

Email me or call me and I can provide you with the latest versions.

[ThomasGuitars]

This pretty much looks like mine. I have the X-Statik with point to point, with upgraded Sonic Caps and Miflex bypass. Measurement 91db at 1 meter at tweeter height. Dirac (second pic) cleans this up pretty good, even better at main listening position.

[Danny Richie]

This pretty much looks like mine. I have the X-Statik with point to point, with upgraded Sonic Caps and Miflex bypass. Measurement 91db at 1 meter at tweeter height. Dirac (second pic) cleans this up pretty good, even better at main listening position.

I was able to replicate that response. It is caused by a floor reflection.

The latest version compensates for that. If you are interested in getting the latest version of the crossover then let me know.

[ThomasGuitars]

I was able to replicate that response. It is caused by a floor reflection.

The latest version compensates for that. If you are interested in getting the latest version of the crossover then let me know.

I bought my X-Statik in 2021, You updated the crossover since then?

[rasykora]

This pretty much looks like mine. I have the X-Statik with point to point, with upgraded Sonic Caps and Miflex bypass. Measurement 91db at 1 meter at tweeter height. Dirac (second pic) cleans this up pretty good, even better at main listening position.

Thanks for sharing how much improvement your Dirac ARC was able to achieve!

Which AVR/processor are you using?