[Freo-1]

EVs don't make sense with the fragile national power grid and limited travel distance. Also really not viable in the north when it's cold when the batteries lose efficiency.

Hybrid does and been around a long time, also I think the alternatives like hydrogen and perhaps other fuel types will displace batteries when it's all said and done.

+1 

[Tyson]

I’ve found that the grid here in CO (and most places it seems) get close to capacity in the late afternoon and early evening.  That’s peak demand.  Definitely don’t want to change an EV during those times.

But off peak?  There’s plenty of capacity and it’s CHEAP.  I charge my car starting at midnight and it’s 10 cents per kWh. 

It gets pretty cold and snowy here in CO.  This is my first winter with the EV, so I am curious to see how it does in adverse conditions.  Not just battery, but traction and the ability to deal with slippery inclines and declines. 

[Freo-1]

EV's are not practical for the majority of the country.  They are expensive, have range and safety issues, and do NOT actually help the environment.  If you want to own one, fine.  Forcing people to buy one is stupid.


Besides, they actually are a worse option for the environment long term, as the batteries are  hazard once depleted. EV's also enrich the CCP.  That's a non starter in my book.

[Tyson]

EV's are not practical for the majority of the country.  They are expensive, have range and safety issues, and do NOT actually help the environment.  If you want to own one, fine.  Forcing people to buy one is stupid.


Besides, they actually are a worse option for the environment long term, as the batteries are  hazard once depleted. EV's also enrich the CCP.  That's a non starter in my book.

I've owned ICE cars my entire life.  This is my first EV.  I'm simply reporting my own, first hand experience.  For me, it's not inconvenient.  In fact it's the opposite, it's very convenient to never have to go to a gas station. 

For me, it's not expensive.  Right now the Model Y Long Range is $48k before rebates.  After rebates ($7500 federal and $5k state for CO) that's $35.5k.  That is NOT an expensive car.

It's funny you mention safety because my last car got into an accident where both airbags deployed and it was completely totaled.  I wanted my next car to the ultra safe, which I'd assumed would be a Volvo of some type.  But I was wrong, after a bit of research it was clear the Teslas are the safest cars around.  Particularly if you look at the European safety tests (which are much more stringent than American tests) it's clear that Teslas are the safest cars ever made.  That was actually the main reason I became interested in a Model Y in the first place.

Before I bought it, I was also concerned about battery fires because you hear about that on the news.  But looking at the actual stats, Teslas are about 20x LESS likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles, based on # of fires per # of miles driven. 

Re: being bad for the environment or not?  Well I don't really care because that's not why I bought the car. 

I feel the same way about it being faster than a Porsche.  I mean, it's nice, but its not really why I bought the car.   

[mix4fix]

EV's are not practical for the majority of the country.  They are expensive, have range and safety issues, and do NOT actually help the environment.  If you want to own one, fine.  Forcing people to buy one is stupid.


Besides, they actually are a worse option for the environment long term, as the batteries are  hazard once depleted.

I agree with the words above. But, forcing isn't stupid, it's evil.

The real recycling we should be doing should be to rebuild older cars to keep them on the road. It doesn't destroy the earth by mining materials nor burying materials that we don't know what to do with. I'm not just talking about classic cars, but modern cars. I would be all for making it beneficial for shops to do this and not charge an arm and a leg.

[Tyson]

Also, I'm not sure what people mean when they say that there's no infrastructure.  Looking at the map of chargers on Tesla's website, seems pretty impressive to me:

 



And that's JUST the Tesla chargers.  There's many other companies out there offering chargers, like Chargepoint, Electrify America, EVgo, that more than triple the number of chargers shown above. 

[mix4fix]

Also, I'm not sure what people mean when they say that there's no infrastructure.  Looking at the map of chargers on Tesla's website, seems pretty impressive to me:

 



And that's JUST the Tesla chargers.  There's many other companies out there offering chargers, like Chargepoint, Electrify America, EVgo, that more than triple the number of chargers shown above.

From my understanding, if you put a supercharger at your house (personal use), it gets indicated as a common supercharger location. So, it is possible that some of those dots are not public supercharging stations.

[Tyson]

From my understanding, if you put a supercharger at your house (personal use), it gets indicated as a common supercharger location. So, it is possible that some of those dots are not public supercharging stations.

That's not true.  I put a charger in my garage and it certainly doesn't show up on the map.  The red dots are Superchargers which are always at least 4 stalls (and usually 12 to 16 stalls) in public areas.  The grey dots are 'destination chargers' like at a hotel or a shopping center parking garage.

Here's one cool thing that I learned recently.  You can also charge a Tesla at anyone's house that has an electric dryer outlet.  You just use the 'mobile charger' from Tesla, plug it into their dryer outlet and it will give you level 2 charging speeds (about 40 miles added per hour).  So even if there weren't Superchargers everywhere, you would never, ever be stuck. 

But luckily there ARE a ton of Superchargers everywhere so not even a concern. 

[mix4fix]

That's not true.  I put a charger in my garage and it certainly doesn't show up on the map.  The red dots are Superchargers which are always at least 4 stalls (and usually 12 to 16 stalls) in public areas.  The grey dots are 'destination chargers' like at a hotel or a shopping center parking garage.

Here's one cool thing that I learned recently.  You can also charge a Tesla at anyone's house that has an electric dryer outlet.  You just use the 'mobile charger' from Tesla, plug it into their dryer outlet and it will give you level 2 charging speeds (about 40 miles added per hour).  So even if there weren't Superchargers everywhere, you would never, ever be stuck. 

But luckily there ARE a ton of Superchargers everywhere so not even a concern.

The company I work for are considering looking into electric service vehicles as an option. Someone I work with is 100% ready to do it because they would install an actual charger/supercharger at his house for free. I remember him stating that it HAS happened where the map indicated a charger at a home location.

And, chargers are not everywhere. Many people don't have the option for charging where they live or work.

[Tyson]

The company I work for are considering looking into electric service vehicles as an option. Someone I work with is 100% ready to do it because they would install an actual charger/supercharger at his house for free. I remember him stating that it HAS happened where the map indicated a charger at a home location.

And, chargers are not everywhere. Many people don't have the option for charging where they live or work.

I agree man, BEV's are not for everyone, as I stated in my first post on this thread.  IMO, they only make sense if you have a garage where you can install a charger. 

Re: the map, what map exactly?  It's definitely not the Tesla map because Tesla has sold millions of cars and there are millions of home chargers installed already, but there's 'only' 50,000 Superchargers on their map. 

But I am curious about the map your friend is referring to.  Let me know.

[charmerci]

Lot of reactionary posts in many places against EV's.    Anyway, with SS batteries coming with at least 700 + mile ranges and a lot more in the future, noisy, air polluting (+changing the oil several times a year) ICE vehicles will be history except for those that want to live in the past.

[mix4fix]

Lot of reactionary posts in many places against EV's.    Anyway, with SS batteries coming with at least 700 + mile ranges and a lot more in the future, noisy, air polluting (+changing the oil several times a year) ICE vehicles will be history except for those that want to live in the past.

 

Newer is not always better. It isn't "reactionary". These are factual concerns about this technology that the public and private sector is forcing on people.

Don't think that the tax breaks you get won't turn around into being taxed for owning the thing, tax for charging, or whatever the government decides to tax on it.

[ssglx]

I think EV's are cool and I might like to have one, but the private sector is being coerced down this path by the government sector. 
In my opinion, due to the batteries-charging infrastructure-vehicle cost this relentless push will not end well.

[Letitroll98]

Lot of reactionary posts in many places against EV's.    Anyway, with SS batteries coming with at least 700 + mile ranges and a lot more in the future, noisy, air polluting (+changing the oil several times a year) ICE vehicles will be history except for those that want to live in the past.

Exactly.  The total pollution footprint for EV vs ICE is ridiculously in favor of electric.  It's not even close, like 90-10%.  The argument that we're burning coal for the electricity is false.  Less than 20% of our power generation is from coal and it's falling fast.  In my backward rural small town charging stations are everywhere and usually available for use.  As far as government mandate, hilarious.  You drive ICE cars with government mandates now, seat belts, air bags, crash bumpers, pollution controls, fuel economy standards, crash worthiness standards, recycling requirements.  Every inch of your gas powered car is regulated down to the financing documents.  EV cars and trucks are the wave of the future and it won't be long before it will be much harder to find a gas station than it is a charging station today.  You'll need an app to find gasoline.

[JLM]

Just bought an EV riding lawn mower and am disappointed.  It was advertised as having a top speed of 8 mph and a range of 2.5 acres.  It also has two speed settings for travel and cutting.  Come to find out maximum speed and range don't coincide.  Tried it out and got about 1/2 acre at top travel/blade speed before batteries were down to 5%.  And the batteries are expensive ($1800 at full retail, reportedly good for 2000 charges).  They do recharge quickly and the mower's price was competitive with ICE.

[rbbert]

Hybrid cars can certainly be an interim "solution" for those not ready or unable to go full electric.  Although they do have more complexity and weight than an IC powered car, the battery and control systems have been remarkably trouble-free for the last 15+ years.  In addition they can offer both improved performance and improved fuel economy compared to an IC powered car, and sometimes improved handling as well (the lower center of gravity offsets the higher weight).  Since it is likely to be at least 5 years (probably closer to 10) before there is both an adequate charging infrastructure and affordable EV's with acceptable range (minimum 300 miles on an 80% charge) a hybrid can be a good purchase for many people at this time.  JMO.

[Sparky14]

I didn't buy an EV because our electricity rates in San Diego county are amongst the highest in the nation. My cousin lives 30 miles north of me (in LA county) and our rates are almost 5 times higher. He has two Teslas and loves them. I ran the numbers, and even the most efficient EV for me would have come up to an equivalent cost as a 35 mpg ICE car. I ended up with a 50 mpg hybrid (Kia Niro) and it is great.

Our next car will be an EV though. I'll cross into the Senior rate structure and will be retired, so my electricity cost will go down by about 60%.

[Freo-1]

Hybrid cars can certainly be an interim "solution" for those not ready or unable to go full electric.  Although they do have more complexity and weight than an IC powered car, the battery and control systems have been remarkably trouble-free for the last 15+ years.  In addition they can offer both improved performance and improved fuel economy compared to an IC powered car, and sometimes improved handling as well (the lower center of gravity offsets the higher weight).  Since it is likely to be at least 5 years (probably closer to 10) before there is both an adequate charging infrastructure and affordable EV's with acceptable range (minimum 300 miles on an 80% charge) a hybrid can be a good purchase for many people at this time.  JMO.

Forcing a EV solution on the public is a terrible option.  There is more downside than upside.  Most of the public is naive on the subject.  If the public actually understood the entire picture, EV's would be less popular.  I can see some use cases for  EV's, but anyone who does long distance traveling will not be keen on the idea of using an EV.  There are already a lot of horror stories regarding this issue.  Let the free market decide, not a bunch of corrupt politicians who don't understand the big picture.


What makes a lot more sense, which the Japanese are quietly pushing are Fuel Cells.   The existing petrol infrastructure can be converted to support Hydrogen fuel.  Nuclear power is also part of the long term solution for energy.   


Hybrids are an excellent option in the near term.

[jonbee]

I've owned hybrids for 10 years, a 2012 Lincoln MKZ, and a 2020 Toyota Avalon. Both have been very trouble free, Lincoln averaged 37mpg and Toyota 40, 450 mile range, both respectable for their size, luxury, and comfort. I have a bit of a heavy foot, so better figures are achievable if I wanted to slow down some.
I keep an eye on EV development, but for my purposes EVs are not nearly as practical a solution- yet.
I like taking road trips in the open spaces of the Northwest (live in Seattle), and planning how to hit charging stations and planning around charging times is very inconvenient, whereas gas stations are easy to find everywhere. I can't charge at home.
Until longer range/fast charging batteries are common (Toyota has a 750 mile ss battery on the way) I won't be interested.
These future developments may well make existing EVs obsolete very rapidly, making total cost of ownership very expensive.
Who will want to pay up for a used EV with 250 mile range when there is 750 miles available?
I think my Avalon hybrid will be very useful for another 10 years or so. By then things should settle out in the EV space, including infrastructure shortfalls.                           

[DaveC113]

Cars are one of the most emotional purchases we make. We don't buy cars on their technical merits, that's just how we justify what we want. EVs are bought by folks on the same basis, mostly so they can assuage the guilt they might have for buying a nice car and signal to others they are doing their part to save the environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecnS1Ygf0o0