AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: goodguys on 13 May 2018, 07:42 am
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Hi And thanks for reading this post.
Had a problem, my amp blew and took my speakers with it. Totally gutted. They were made using visaton b200 drive units.
I am thinking whether to buy visatons again or can anybody give me any advice on upgrades. I read about the Dayton Audio PS220-8, which are supposed to be better and cheaper as well, or does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions at all. I was using the visatons as mids from 120hz upwards
Many thanks.
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The PS220 has an edge if the B200s are stock, but adding phase plugs to the B200 transforms their performance and would make things much, much closer.
The B200 has a highish Q, and it is not likely at all that the PS220 will work in a box designed for the B200.
More details on the box?
dave
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Dayton say this driver goes so hi as 25kHz usable range!!
However the chart goes only to 20kHz... :scratch:
Seems a nice driver and inexpensive $119.75
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/PS220-8%208_%20Point%20Source%20Full-Range%20Neo%20Driver%20Specification%20Sheet.pdf
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I was using the visatons as open baffle, on a 30" x 30" board, with damping material stuck to the back and the phase plugs mods as well.
It sounds like the dayton audios would not be much of an improvement, if any.
Any recommendations what to do next? Do you think i should buy more of the visatons, or are there any other drivers I should be looking at. I did like the sound of the visatons, but felt they were lacking in a few areas.
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I cant say what to do, but I liked the Dayton mainly it already have phase plug and neodymium magnet what is a plus over Ferrite, the kevlar reinforced paper cone also nice.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ps220-8-8-point-source-full-range-neo-driver--295-346
You always can recone the B200 with a repair kit.
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Hi. Thanks for the reply.
Did you manage to listen to both the dayton and the visaton driver, if so can you please tell me the differences between the two.
Where can i get the recone kit from.
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If you can do the cone change a Visaton authorizad dealer maybe can order a kit for you, or maybe you should send the driver to them for repair and new warranty.
http://www.visaton.de/en/vertrieb
Unfortunately I have listen none, but various members here know the B200 first hand.
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What do you think of the performance capabilities of the visaton b200 serving as a midrange only driver, no bass, cut off at 120hz.
I mean the driver has a good reputation, and i have dampened the rear and inserted phase plugs. Would it be a waste of time searching for a potentially better driver as the visatons may be so good that even if i found a better driver, the end result would be a marginal increase in sound quality. I am hoping for something more, or does the law of diminishing returns come into effect at this point. Sorry for rambling. Would it be better to spend the money in other areas.
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That is an interesting idea.
The biggest problen with the B200 is that the Q is hi-enuff that one would normally suggest OB 1st. (I've tried that). But if you want to put them in a box the Q is an issue. You’d 1st think of infinte baffle — cut holes in the wall and use the next room as an enclosure. If they go into a smaller box you need ro make it aperiodic. Push the XO up to 200 to start to avoid the possible bass peak.
After seeing Joe Rassmussen’s B200 TL, i designed one of my own, to be damped until aperiodic. Its a centre channel.
I’ve got 4 EnABLed B200s i still haven’t decided on a project for them.
dave
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What do you think of the performance capabilities of the visaton b200 serving as a midrange only driver, no bass, cut off at 120hz.
Not in OB, but in a box it could sound nice, the usual cut is in 270Hz (4.7mH) in OB.
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:scratch:
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I was thinking that you would add a sealed box the width of the woofer cabinet and tall enuff to comfortably accomodate the B200 to the top of the box, drill holes in the back of it and damp the crap out of it. Even a semi-reasonable sealed box is over 200 litres.
dave
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I used b200’s with Planet_10 phase plugs on OB for 10years and really liked them.
You could Google the no longer built Omega speakers that used the Visaton b200 in an aperiodic enclosure and mock up a set.
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I used b200’s with Planet_10 phase plugs on OB for 10years and really liked them.
You could Google the no longer built Omega speakers that used the Visaton b200 in an aperiodic enclosure and mock up a set.
He intend use the B200 in OB for bass starting at 120Hz.
What do you think of the performance capabilities of the visaton b200 serving as a midrange only driver, no bass, cut off at 120hz.
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Hi. Thanks for the replies.
I see that most recommend an enclosure, i have tried them that way but much prefer the 3-D wide clean sound of OB. Sorry.
Would much prefer any advice in that direction.
What do you think? Should i buy more visatons to replace the blown ones, or can you recommend any ' better ' drivers
I have a multichannel set up, so is going to cost maybe a thousand dollars to refit. Before spending all that cash would love some advice on alternatives.
Thanks.
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I did not suggest the B200 to OB why 120Hz is still bass freq.
Maybe this FR can sound good in 120Hz OB:
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an10classicspecs.jpg
It was positively tested here as OB full band no sub:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/audionirvana.html
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Most do not recommend an enclosure.
You are in the "enclosures" circle, there is also an "open baffle" circle.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=90.0
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Most do not recommend an enclosure.
Because the Qt is so high that any reasonable box is too big for most people. Or you cut off the bass and use as a midTweeter.
I have tried B200 OB (actually the only way i have heard it), as well as a number of other OBs. But i have always found that there is some common failing in all of them, a compromise i personally don’t like so i have gone back to well built/designed boxes.
dave
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:scratch:
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The box that Visaton recommend for the B200 is 100L sealed.
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[d]
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The box that Visaton recommend for the B200 is 100L sealed.
Sims suggest 200 litre would be better.
dave
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Sims suggest 200 litre would be better.
dave
It would be nice. When I was a new member I emailed Visaton, a tech fast reply me informing the B200 not suited to BR boxes.
Maybe the OP should try the B200 in OB starting at 120Hz since it already have the drive.
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Can you tell me anything about enabled visaton b200. Can't find much about it. It is worth doing. Is this something i can do myself.
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Can you tell me anything about enabled visaton b200. Can't find much about it. It is worth doing. Is this something i can do myself.
Talk to Planet 10 about it :thumb:
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EnABL is a process developed by Bud Purvine (and patented, now expired). He freely made the tech available to all. One can learn the basics in Posts 13-17 in this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119676-enabl-listening-impressions-techniques-2.html. You will also need to search for Bud describing the tap test used to figure out where to place the ringsets on the cone. Generic patterns are available.
What this won’t give you is the experience (or great natural skill) to not make a real mess of it on at least the first few drivers.
EnABL is a very contoversial subject. Many saying that it can’t possibly do the things claimed (almost exclusively by people who have never lived with an EnABLed loudspeaker) and there are those who can’t live without. I am one of those. I have been able to quickly pick out the EnABLed speaker in a blind test (if i get to choose the audion tracks)*.
No one really knows how it works. There are measurements that give some support for its effectiveness, but it depends on how you assume a measurement should look.
*i find that an EnABLed speaker has greater DDR (the ability to reproduce small details). That means voice & instrument sound more realistic, and (if on the source) a more fully formed 3D image/soundstage. Listening for that is how i cheat the test, just listened for the wall behind the loudspeakers to disappear and the image to form in 3D. When i 1st auditioned an EnABLed loudspeaker it took me an afternoon to figure out what to listen for to perceive a distance. At the time i described it with this analogy” imagine flying over a valley and looking down. With a normal loudspeaker it is like there is a bit of fog hugging the valley floor, with EnABL that fog has burned off any things are more clearly visible.
For more information email me or visit my website.
dave
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Thanks!
If i want to purchase a drive unit roughly which kind of manufacturers should i be looking at. I am puzzled. When i look at a drive unit i see a paper cone, which probably cost a few bucks, followed by a voice coil, which probably cost a few bucks, followed by a magnet, which probably cost a few bucks, yet these people are charging hundreds of dollars for something which probably cost a few bucks to manufacture. I mean manufacturers like fostex, tangband etc
What should i do? Who sells drivers at a reasonable rate so i do not end up throwing away my hard earned bucks paying for some esoteric brand name.
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Thanks!
If i want to purchase a drive unit roughly which kind of manufacturers should i be looking at. I am puzzled. When i look at a drive unit i see a paper cone, which probably cost a few bucks, followed by a voice coil, which probably cost a few bucks, followed by a magnet, which probably cost a few bucks, yet these people are charging hundreds of dollars for something which probably cost a few bucks to manufacture. I mean manufacturers like fostex, tangband etc
What should i do? Who sells drivers at a reasonable rate so i do not end up throwing away my hard earned bucks paying for some esoteric brand name.
If you like headphones or the small soundstage dont bother you, you could try a planar as HE400 or 560:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109690.msg1687041#new
$349 are astonishing value for an HE560.
Otherwise the Classic10CF is $298 per pair.
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an10classicspecs.jpg
Here prices start at $98/pair
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvana.html
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An Classic10CF
Had a pair of those thru here. Was not impressed.
dave
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Had a pair of those thru here. Was not impressed.
dave
This driver was positively tested here but he removed the review ad post a smaller :scratch:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/audionirvana.html
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What do you think of the mark audio alpair series in open baffle, how would they compare against visaton b200, or any opinions at all will be appreciated.
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The Mark Audio sound good, and work well on an OB with a helper woofer.
The B200 is one of the few quality 8” that can produce its own bass.
Dave
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Years ago Paul Hynes made an OBLA entirely of B200s.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180313)
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A few years back I had Bud Purvine himself EnABL my well worn Fostex F200A drivers (not your typical 8 inch diameter extended range driver - 30-20,000Hz, 89 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, damn heavy AlNiCo magnet, no whizzer cone, produced a nicely detailed, full bodied sound, $575 each when last available). Bud called them, once EnABL'd, one of the best drivers in the world. With my fully broken in drivers he found that they benefitted from an additional of dashes. 14 years later I still use them daily in Martin King inspired transmission line floor-standing cabinets designed/built by Bob Brines.
I felt that the EnABLing added mid/high frequency detail, improved imaging, expanded the soundstage, and perhaps added high frequency response. Well worth the investment.
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Investment? How much it costed?
Any photo from the enabl?
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Investment? How much it costed?
Everything that you need, except experience, is readily available for the diyer (information & help). To gain experience will take some time and some donor drivers.
If you want to bypass that and have me do them, email me i can quote a price. Shipping to & from Brazil is pricy so i’d suggest taking th ehobby up yourself. I’d love to see more than just me doing it commercially.
Dave
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Thanks Dave, I appreciated.
If you can PM me with some instructions on what hardware I need etc I have two pairs to be moded, Omega 7A and AN Classic10A.
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I provided the links to the core information (reply #26). I believe that Bud outlines the required materials/tools*. Kits to do EnABL can be had from Ed. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/119852-enabl-kit.html
*(high solids train paint, clear gloss intended for coating and protecting decals on models, calligraphy nibs and holder (i use #56, A2/A3/A4/A5 nibs (2 & 3 for big drivers. I also used thinned PVA (specifically ModPodge (http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/tweeks.html)) to pretreat paper cones, and ZIG 2=way glue to help deal with some resonance issues in some drivers).
A generic template for spot placement here:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Generic-EnABL-patterns-211217.pdf
earlier set: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/119852-enabl-kit-post1463353.html
Feel free to email me (no PMs please) if you have further questions.
dave
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Thanks Dave for these help, much appreciated.