TT Advice

1ZIP · « **on:** 26 Nov 2009, 03:59 am »

I have an old Thorens TD 160 & I want to upgrade and keep the cost around $1000.00, give or take a couple of hundred. After some research I've come up with the following possibilities offering good performance and value:

1.) Pro-ject RM 5SE w/Sumiko Blue Point

2.) Music Hall MMF-5.1SE W/Goldring GL 2400

3.) Rega P3-24 w/ELYS 2 or a Dynavector 10X5

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.

ecramer · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Nov 2009, 04:02 am »

Quote from: 1ZIP on 26 Nov 2009, 03:59 am

I have an old Thorens TD 160 & I want to upgrade and keep the cost around $1000.00, give or take a couple of hundred. After some research I've come up with the following possibilities offering good performance and value:

1.) Pro-ject RM 5SE w/Sumiko Blue Point

2.) Music Hall MMF-5.1SE W/Goldring GL 2400

3.) Rega P3-24 w/ELYS 2 or a Dynavector 10X5

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.

Music Hall MMF-7.1 Trade in Turntable-As New

good guy to deal with

ED

1ZIP · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 06:15 pm »

After doing some more research I've pretty much ruled out an MH. It's a great looking TT but there does seem to be an issue with customer service/reliability. I have no idea if it's significant or not but with all three in the same performnce/value/price range why take the risk. So, pending a demo, it looks like a P3.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 07:33 pm »

Though it needs a little TLC, this table will smoke everything new today under 3K, IMHO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORACLE-DELPHI-MARK-I-UPGRADE-TO-MARK-II-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ320454145259QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item4a9c8e34eb

Uptown Audio · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 07:40 pm »

For performance, reliability, and value, it's hard to touch Rega. I've had quite a few turntables, including Regas, in my time and quite a few Bryston systems. I still have a Rega table.
-Bill

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 07:44 pm »

If the age of the Oracle bothers you a much newer, slightly used VPI Scout/JMW Memorial can be had for under $1,200. I think that is much more table than what you've listed. Great arm too!

doug s. · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 08:50 pm »

i bought my original iteration (even pre "mkll") oracle with a grace tonearm over ten years ago, for $850. i now have a total of ~$2500 into it, which includes upgrades to mkv specs, an o-l dc motor kit, and upgraded o-l silver taper tonearm. these oracles are bullet-proof, ultra-reliable, relatively easy to set up, and they stay set-up once done. mine, now ~30 years old, is still trouble-free. the only issues some of the earliest iterations have is the power supplies, and these are easily upgradable. i would highly recommend one; they can be found ready-to-go for ~$1k, and you can upgrade as you want down the road.

but, at $1k used, the oracle isn't the only deck out there; there's a ton of excellent decks in this price-range; yust peruse agon:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1264374097&/Well-Tempered-classic
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1264170352&/Garrard-401-turntable
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1263993002&/Sota-Sapphire-Great-Condition

re: the regas, tho decent decks for sure, at the $1k price range, i would save your money and go for a wintage empire. better performance at a much lower price, imo...

doug s.

jakelieb · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 10:23 pm »

The Thorens is a very nice table. You should think about upgrading it.

Check with David Archambault at: www.vinylnirvana.com

Jake

doorman · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Nov 2009, 11:51 pm »

For your budget amount, it would be very hard to beat a P-3.
Combined with an appropriate arm, like an RB300, they are simple, rugged and make music!
Good hunting!
Don

1ZIP · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Nov 2009, 12:05 am »

I was just over at Audiogon looking at some TD 160's that had been restored. They look fantastic. I think the fellows name that restored them is Chris Thornton.

I have had two pieces of gear restored by individuals referred to me by members of Audiocircle, a Sansui 717 and a Marantz 2270. I have to say these people were first rate folks to deal with and performed excellent work. So referrals from y'all carry a lot of weight with me.

Restoration is a definite possibility so advice on restoration and other options are greatly greatly appreciated.

orthobiz · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Nov 2009, 12:20 am »

Quote from: jakelieb on 27 Nov 2009, 10:23 pm

The Thorens is a very nice table. You should think about upgrading it.

Check with David Archambault at: www.vinylnirvana.com

Jake

+1
Paul

Mister Pig · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Dec 2009, 03:31 pm »

Quote from: 1ZIP on 26 Nov 2009, 03:59 am

I have an old Thorens TD 160 & I want to upgrade and keep the cost around $1000.00, give or take a couple of hundred. After some research I've come up with the following possibilities offering good performance and value:

1.) Pro-ject RM 5SE w/Sumiko Blue Point

2.) Music Hall MMF-5.1SE W/Goldring GL 2400

3.) Rega P3-24 w/ELYS 2 or a Dynavector 10X5

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.

If I had a kilobuck to spend on a turntable, I would strongly consider going to the pre-owned market. I think a well cared for VPI would offer the best bang for the buck. For the amount of money you have to spend, I think a VPI 19 MK 3 or 4 would be attainable. Those are mighty fine tables. I know VPI is kind of a ho hum choice for many a vinylophile, especially since its a common high end table. However, the company has been around forever, has an upgrade path, and sounds very good. After all people keep buying them and updating their tables.

Often the ones on Audiogon will come with a good quality arm. Such as an Audioquest PT 6, or if you were incredibly lucky a Eminent Technology II. If you need to add an arm, the Rega RB 250 and 300 are known to be a good match. There are several upgrades for these arms that are quite cost effective, and should keep you in your budget.

Now this leaves phono cartridge. If you are a savvy shopper, even the used market can yield a gem or two. For instance there in a low low low hour Audionote IQ II on the Audio Asylum classifieds for $100. Thats a screaming deal...if its still there. A watchful eye on Audiogon has shown a few moving magnet ClearAudio carts come up reasonably priced, at least one with a 0 hour rebuild from Soundsmith. I know many people are adverse to testing the used market on phono carts, but I have done it several times, and always had positive experiences. If I were shopping for new, I see that a dealer is closing out some ZYX carts on AudioXSell, so maybe you can find one there.

Patience is the key in shopping the online used market, and a quick decision when a bonifide deal presents itself.

For what its worth I have done exactly this. I bought a used Townshend Rock MK II in pristine condition. Found a new Moth RB 251 from a shop in Canada, goes by the Audiogon monikor of MrStereo. Then found a Hagerman Coronet 2 phono stage from a AC member. Finally, bought a 0 hour retipped Accuphase AC1 phono cartridge.(Waiting for that one to be delievered). The table and arm cost me no more than 750, but I added an Icognito rewire, and the Riggle Engineering VTAF and counterweight upgrades.

Oh one thing. Stay away from early generation SOTA. The motor are no longer available, and the new replacement necessitate the changing of the power supply and regulation. Gets expensive quickly.

Regards
Mister Pig

1ZIP · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 07:05 am »

Great advice from you all!

Thanks

1ZIP · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 05:58 pm »

I had some email traffic with vinylnirvana sounds like a great guy but doesn't do frames. So, there is another fellow that specializes in 160 restorations/mods. Any one have experience with 160 frame off restorations by this fellow?

PM me if you like!

95Dyna · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jan 2010, 08:32 pm »

Quote from: jakelieb on 27 Nov 2009, 10:23 pm

The Thorens is a very nice table. You should think about upgrading it.

Check with David Archambault at: www.vinylnirvana.com

Jake

Hi Jake,

I have a circa 1974 TD 160 as well. When you say it is a nice table do you have any idea where it would sit in today's TT lineups? In other words, how much would one have to spend on TT today to have something comparable? I think knowing nthis would be helful when deciding on whether to upgrade or buy new.

Thanks,

Bill

jakelieb · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jan 2010, 09:14 pm »

Bill,

Not sure but know someone that knows!!

Contact George Merrilll at 901-751-3337 or gmanalog@aol.com

He sells Thorens tables and does repair work, upgrades, etc.

www.gmanalog.com

George is a stand up guy. I got to visit with him over the holidays. Tell him Jake from North Carolina referred you.

Jake

gripweed44 · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Feb 2011, 01:36 am »

I also have a TD 1609 with a Sumiko Evo III cartridge. It sounds really good. I have also wondered where it stands in todays TT lineup. I got the Cartridge at Echo in Portland and Kurt the owner thought it compared to a Linn lp12.

John

BaMorin · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Feb 2011, 01:15 pm »

Quote from: 1ZIP on 26 Nov 2009, 03:59 am

I have an old Thorens TD 160 & I want to upgrade and keep the cost around $1000.00, give or take a couple of hundred. After some research I've come up with the following possibilities offering good performance and value:

1.) Pro-ject RM 5SE w/Sumiko Blue Point

2.) Music Hall MMF-5.1SE W/Goldring GL 2400

3.) Rega P3-24 w/ELYS 2 or a Dynavector 10X5

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.

A properly done TD160 will out perform any of the above. I'm assuming you have stock arm and suspension at the moment? If not, an AR is a table that will play above those you mentioned as well.

Delta Wave · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Feb 2011, 03:13 pm »

I would have to agree with everyone else here, for the money I'd rather put it back into the Thorens or find a nice VPI, Oracle, Sota, etc. There are so many better choices than what you have listed. If you really look at the Rega, aside from the arm and motor, there's not much to it to warrant the price tag. I've seen better quality and materials in a $50 cigar humidor.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Feb 2011, 04:39 pm »

Quote from: Mister Pig on 1 Dec 2009, 03:31 pm

For what its worth I have done exactly this. I bought a used Townshend Rock MK II in pristine condition. Found a new Moth RB 251 from a shop in Canada, goes by the Audiogon monikor of MrStereo. Then found a Hagerman Coronet 2 phono stage from a AC member. Finally, bought a 0 hour retipped Accuphase AC1 phono cartridge.(Waiting for that one to be delievered). The table and arm cost me no more than 750, but I added an Icognito rewire, and the Riggle Engineering VTAF and counterweight upgrades.

A fine purchase...I owned one in 1987-88 with a Helius arm.

However, as you have one of the most effective uses of silicone damping ever devised for a turntable (1" from the stylus point) damping the headshell itself....you owe yourself to try a nice Grado on there.

Silicone damping is important to scavenging some of the worse remnants from Grado's potentially troubling mix....and you get to hear the most natural, dynamic, reasonably priced cartridge today in the best way possible.

Seriously, the mating with the Townshend Rock's are a dream.

To the OP.....if you can find a Technics SL1200 at a good price that would be my recommendation at under $1000 today. A Thorens TD-316 bought in 1988 was an underwhelming TT, at best; at worst it stunk - however I'm not sure the three tables you listed would be much of a quantum leap over what you have.

(sorry to go kinda' alternative on ya', gripweed and BaMorin

)

John