[2bigears]

the Gon has some real fine decks fs right now in the 1/2 price range.these 15-25k dollar decks with a good arm and cart will set you back a good chunk-o-change.what exactly do they do better over a,say 10k unit.speed control is key of course,costly R&D and exotic materials,but is the rest mark-up for the rich ?????  reason i ask is i was told my Rega sucks and the XX2 cart sucks.man,i can't get nothin' right.....

[Toka]

reason i ask is i was told my Rega sucks and the XX2 cart sucks.man,i can't get nothin' right.....

If you are happy with the sound you are getting, then you have nothing to worry about...Rega's are quality decks, and DV's are quality carts...not saying you should never try something else, just that there is no reason to not dig whatcha got. 

[SET Man]

....reason i ask is i was told my Rega sucks and the XX2 cart sucks.man,i can't get nothin' right.....

Hey!

    Screw him! If he doesn't like it that his problem not your. Have he heard your system? 

    Like Toka said, if you are happy with the sound now than why worry? Why should you care about what people said?

   Well, unless you've heard something better in your own system than that is another story.

Take care,
Buddy

[TerryO]

The only people I listen to are the Salesmen at High-End stores, because they "know" stuff!

Seriously, I don't pay attention to what most people say, although there are a few that seem to be on top of things. The difference between your Rega (properly set up) and the top, very best TT in existence isn't very great and this is in a listening room that has been designed and treated for excellent acoustics. Trust your own ears and whatever you do, don't read the audio rags as they try to create a sense of inferiority that can only be countered by spending copious amounts of money on products designed by Inaccessible Audio Einsteins.

Speaking of Audio Magazines, I tend to follow the same process I use with Playboy: I look at the pictures and never read any of the articles.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[TONEPUB]

Dude:

Don't let anyone tell you the P9 is not a great table. One of my reviewers loves
his and I love mine. 

Emotion aside, we've compared that P9 to some tables in the 15 - 60 thousand
dollar range, with identical Dynavector XV-1s carts on both and even up against
the mighty Continuum (which we had here for three months) the P9 is still extremely
respectable.

I can't think of a table I'd rather own for that kind of money. It's well built
and gives you a great peek at what the cost no object stuff will do.  Probably
one of the best values in high end audio today...

The RB1000 arm is pretty awesome for 2000 bucks too.  I have a spare one
on my SOTA and couldn't be happier

(and that's after owning an Oracle, SOTA, Linn LP-12, Scoutmaster,
etc., etc.)

What you really get with the super high end tables that goes beyond
the P9 is a lower noise floor, even better speed accuracy (though the P9
with its power supply is excellent in this regard) and some more weight
to the overall presentation. 

It's like taking 400 speed film out of your camera and putting 100 speed
film in...

But I'm still convinced after listening to quite a few tables that cost a
lot more the P9 is still damn good.

[consttraveler]

2bigears:

I agree with TonePub.  Having owned a number of TT's, and carts, including a Rega P-25 that I mounted a DV 17D Karat on, I can say from experience that the difference between a quality set-up (Rega in your case) and the big bucks rigs (Teres W/Clearaudio Discovery in my case) is minimal. 

Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of going back.  Although small, the differences are magic to me and worth every penny of my children's inheritance. 

Dave

[2bigears]

   very good words here and thank-you all very much.i really am liking the P9 with the DV-XX2.here we go again,,,,but you have all these : :drool:VPI HRX 12.7,,,,SME/30.2,,,,Avid Actus Reference,,,,TW Acustic Raven AC right now on the Gon all at 1/2 price.these tt's are life-long keepers.i quess you only know if you try,but it does put you close to the border of crazy world for sure .standing-by and not thinking straight with too much time on my hands,as per norm....  

[mca]

I think it's time to start going to AA...

Audiophile Anonymous 

[consttraveler]

It is a slippery slope.  Just keep the plastic in your pocket. 

Dave

[2bigears]

  i hear ya,i really do,but ya have guys saying small gains,then the salesman says the old 'night-and-day' thing.nobody really needs to be sent to the poor house over this fun hobby,but like we all say,you only live once and from diapers too diapers you best have some fun in there. the deals may get better also as these crazy times unfold....

[consttraveler]

2bigears:

Truthfully, the only "night & day" experience I have had was twice.  Once when I first invested in quality speakers, and once when I learned how to set-up the speakers.  The rest has been incremental.

Dave

[woodsyi]

  i hear ya,i really do,but ya have guys saying small gains,then the salesman says the old 'night-and-day' thing.nobody really needs to be sent to the poor house over this fun hobby,but like we all say,you only live once and from diapers too diapers you best have some fun in there. the deals may get better also as these crazy times unfold....

You know the sensible people at AC Vinyl Circle will give you well reasoned, prudent advices.  But I am going to buck the trend and advise you to go for one of the big rigs.  You do have to bargain it down to less then half price though.  In this current market, you should drive down the resales price below 50% MSP.  I advise you this because you clearly have the itch.  You have to scratch it before the itch becomes unbearable.  Never mind all the folks who's never picked a healing scab in their lives because they know that it would bleed again and rescab. You have to do it a few times before you learn the lesson.  Then there are folks who know this and still pick anyway because it itches.  You got the itch bad, scratch it.   

I will say that you will hear improvement but not night and day.  I went from MMF5 to various stages to Teres/Graham/ZYX/Aethetix.   It's good now and I know how good.  I don't have the itch anymore.  Good luck. 

[TONEPUB]

There's an awful lot of performance in the P9.

I'd suggest stepping up all the way in the Dynavector range to the
XV1-s, and get your hands on a really world class phono stage.

Compared to some of the most expensive tables made, I think
you would be very surprised.  It's not as far as you can go,
but exceptionally good.

I've been using a Raven Two with SME arms as my main table
now for a while, but you are talking 20k vs whatever you paid
for your used P9.  The new Spiral Groove SG-2 with Triplanar
arm is excellent, but again, were talking over 20k.  The SME 20
is darn good too, as probably quite a few others, but if you
don't have the major cartridge and phono stage, you won't hear
much diff.

Even upgrading the P9 to the big bucks cart & phono preamp
will be a 15-20k analog front end.  Is the rest of your system
AND your record collection up to that level?

[woodsyi]

Jeff is right.

Getting your arm/pickup pairing right and matching a good phono stage will get you really good sound.  Take your time and get your set up right before you do any upgrading.  You may not want the upgrade.  Having said that, I am really impressed with Graham Phantom arm.  Partly because it is the best I have had at getting the set up right.  The adjustment for VTA, Azimuth, alignment, tracking force, anti-skate are all right there.  Changing Cartridge is easy too as you just take the arm wand off to do it. 

[TONEPUB]

The Graham arms are really good.  While the Phantom is their best arm,
The older 2.2 is still really good and you might be able to snag one
of those dirt cheap from someone who is on the upgrade path.

One of the nicest features about all of the Graham arms is the interchangeable
arm wands, allowing you to use different cartridges.

However, if you get to be that much of an analog nut, I'd keep the P9 with
a cartridge that has a completely different tonal balance than your big rig.

That way, you can enjoy a wider range of your record collection, as no
one cartridge seems to cover all the bases!

[Browntrout]

Hello everyone, can I suggest that a very good turntable will be more beautifull to listen to than a not so good one. I personally think a very good turntable will have been designed with a matching arm made by the same person/manufacturer such as your very nice P9 and the SME tables, these will have been designed as one whole piece together with arm to work as one.
    It is this complete approach that allows the designer and builder to actually 'tune' the sound and mechanics of the system. For me the differences between the types of table/front end you are talking about are not really something that can be described by or apportioned in terms of magnitude, music cannot be descibed in these terms so how can a devices' preformance when making music is what it does?
   In  reproduced music the smallest difference from reality is the most obvious, if you have nearly everything right then that one small thing wrong will stand out more than if the majority of the sound is wrong, a bit like a spot on the nose of a very beautifull woman, somehow it seems more of a fault or more obvious than if it were on a plain looking girl, no?
   Finally, please excuse the length of this post, buying an expensive turntable does not have to be a reckless act or financially unsound move. If you do your homework and, as you have done, found a 'bargain' then it is possible to, over the longterm, loose either very little or nothing or even make money as some things are made in such small volumes (I would suggest this be a major consideration if buying at this level as rarity cannot be beaten for maintaining value) that they can never be replaced and thus have a different type of market forces to contend with compared to anything produced on a larger scale.
  My recordplayer is number 67 of only 120 made and this adds greatly to the value in monetary terms and of course pride of ownership. What I paid for it was, I think, the new price even though it was about 15 years old when I bought it, so actual cost of ownership could be nothing longterm (not that I will ever sell it)
  Of course ,as others have said, the rest of the system needs to be working in tune with your source but the P9 can certainly be bettered and while the differences might at first appear small after a week or two you will realise they are the most important subtleties and nuances and phrasings that come out and give you the meaning and expressive emotion of the music and performer.
  I can't imagine anyone who loves music regreting buying a first class recordplayer.
  
  
  

[ricmon]

  I can't imagine anyone who loves music regreting buying a first class recordplayer.
   

I love the term recordplayer.  It really takes me back to the days when there was only recordplayes and tape decks.  aa

ric

[consttraveler]

Browntrout:

You have touched on the difference between a gear head and a music lover.  And, you will get no argument from me.

Dave

[TONEPUB]

Browntrout:

Very true, and with all of the megabuck components, I couldn't agree with you more.

[chadh]

Here's a completely unqualified opinion, from somebody who doesn't even own a turntable.

The really important elements to deciding whether to buy one of these super-duper-high-end machines are:  (1) how much cash you have; and (2) how much risk you're prepared to bear.  If you can deal with a little risk, and have the spare cash, why not buy the low-priced but still unbelievably extravagant machine and test it out for yourself, knowing that you can resell it next week if it isn't everything you'd imagined?  You risk losing a little money on the deal - but in all likelihood you wouldn't lose much if you sell again in the very short term. Of course, it's possible that you could lose a lot of money if something dreadful happens while the unit is in transit.

Honestly, holding durable real assets like high end audio gear may be a much safer option than holding a diversified stock portfolio right now.  So you know what that means?  Buy, buy, buy!

Chad