[2bigears]

  seems everyone buys VPI stuff,can anyone speak on SOTA tt's or speak on a good buy for 3 or 4 k used buy.there is a SOTA tt with a SME 5 arm for sale on the Gon,would this be a good combo ????   thks to you tt guru's.....

[Carl V]

SOTA is & always has been a good Table.  They just don't promote themselves as well.
Another very good under the radar table would be Well Tempered.  Basis is also a very
good table.

That Agon SOTA/SME is a good deal.

[2bigears]

  thks,what exactly is the pump for ?? i don't get that part.holds down the disc ?? 

[ohenry]

They are hard to find used since they haven't been around a long time, but I'd like to try an Origin Live arm/table.  They seem to get great press and the descriptions of the sonic characteristics have me intrigued.  I'll keep dreaming...

[AliG]

This is a good buy too, I know the guy and he takes care of his rig better than anything else (including his wife! )

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1217942089

[TheChairGuy]

They are hard to find used since they haven't been around a long time, but I'd like to try an Origin Live arm/table.  They seem to get great press and the descriptions of the sonic characteristics have me intrigued.  I'll keep dreaming...

Ditto with Henry (for the umpteenth time on various topics ). 

I already own an Origin Live arm (Illustrious Mk. III) and just keep reading test after test (be it here or in UK/Europe) about the great sound of their decks.

The top-of-the-line Sovereign is way to pricey for me to consider....but for 60% of that a Resolution Mk. II can be had (it's cheaper to buy from Origin Live directly than US dealers).  $3800 new (sans arm)....not chump change....but the accolades are high and mighty on this table (most of them are actually for the previous Mk. I version....not the improved II).

http://www.turntable-kits.com/resolution-turntable.htm

I know you can get a pretty tricked out VPI Aries (or SuperScout Master even) for that kinda' money, too, or a nice SOTA (non-vacuum I think, which is probably a dang shame NOT to buy one with a SOTA).

DAMN - do I hate manual play, tho.  Semi-auto is just so nice to have (my JVC deck and DUAL 1229 changer decks)

John

[bpape]

thks,what exactly is the pump for ?? i don't get that part.holds down the disc ?? 

Pump is for the vacuum hold down for the disk.  That's a really nice table/arm combo. 

Bryan

[doug s.]

go back to your old thread & read my suggestions there.  (and the suggestions of others!)   

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=53900.0

doug s.

[2bigears]

   thks all.i know we are beating a dead dog here,but all these guys trying to sell their tt say a mid end tt,say 3 or 4 or 5k used with a good arm and cart ,the sound is 'night and day' better than the great little Technics 1210.the older thread i think John mentioned 5 to 10 % better sound.i stand  as always up here in the bush.

[TheChairGuy]

You got the speed issue (under ALL conditions) licked already with the Technics SL-1210....that's a big part of getting vinyl right.

It's not until you get into much higher brackets of belt drive decks, those with goodly weighted platters (for inertia) and tightly regulated outboard speed control, do you begin to overtake the inherent speed stability of quartz locked, DC, direct drive models with belt drive. 

Belt drivers are inherently better isolated, and have lower noise floors (at least those with expensive sophisticated bearings)....when you start climbing the price charts you eventually eclipse the humble little Technics.

Of course the Technics can be bettered by a reasonable amount of KAB upgrades making the amount needed higher still with belt drives after those upgrades. But, you'll never attain the lowest noise floors of the best belt drivers out there.

I truly think my so-so experience with an older Technics SL-1200 is atypical and is because it lead an abused life and the motor is loose in its 'harness' and is imparting a lot excess energy back into the deck...which is leeching back into the sonic chain. I think I'm gonna' have KAB fix mine up right pretty soon 

Unless you really are dedicated to spending 5x+ the cost of the Technics (new), your not apt to dramatically better it's performance.  But, somewhere along the line you can and will spend more money and get more deck.

One question you gotta' ask yourself is your system capable of handling a better deck and do you care to spend $2K+ more on a deck...or some other luxury in your life (or, for goodness sakes, save the money ).  How far do you carry a neurosis for better analog sound...to the detriment of other things in your life.

Unfortunately, for many of us assembled here at AC (myself included alot), our sickness has little to do good sense (cents?) and reason 

John

[2bigears]

   thk you John.the only reason i keep swingin' this dead cat is the 'night-and-day' sonics thing these guys tell me after they went to big dollar rigs.you say 5 to 10% which is nothing far as i am concerned.my VAC pre has a pretty good phono section,this is part of the reason i am at question....it will do MM or MC....dunce as always-over and out.

[TheChairGuy]

Make sure your deck is on a great shelf or ultra-thick maple or other platform underneath...with compliant pads or legs of some sort to soak up what energy does sneak thru...at leat part of the great sound they are getting are available to improve any deck, no matter the humble beginnings.

Yes, spending $5K will get you a better deck than what you have...it will have a more refined sound, it will have a lower noise floor, it will near-equal in speed regulation (and likely good enough) assuming it an outboard power supply...but your still limited by the software (the record and analog recording process itself).

It cannot be a night and day difference as all phono playback and recording is held back by the same set of constraints.  It's a flawed medium...it just happens to honor music more realistically than CD/Redbook when you tackle most of it's conquerable issues.

I'm not trying to talk you into keeping what you have or to spend biggie money on a boffo great uber-table.....it's your money and you can choose to do with it that you want....just know there ain't but a 10% difference between what you have and the best. 

But, that last 10% is what we hunger for as audiophools...we spend it while most others sit idly and laugh at us 

Oh well - those poor non-audiophool schlubs don't know diddly

John

[2bigears]

   well ok then,10% for 4 for or 5k is not money well wasted.gotta say though,those Origin Live tables look good. thks  Pat 

[toobluvr]

For less than $3k I would look into the new Clearaudio Performance (w CMB bearing) + Satisfy Arm combo.  Killer review in the March 2008 TAS.....compared it to several more expensive big name decks.

[TONEPUB]

4-5000 will buy you a great turntable, especially if you are buying used.

And if you are stepping up from a Technics, you will get way more
than 5-10% improvement, depending on the rest of your system.

The Sota/SME combination is quite good.  I am reviewing the NOVA
right now and have used the SME IV.Vi with excellent results as well
as the Rega RB1000 arm.  I just bought a used Sapphire for $350!
(its a nova without the vacuum hold down)

Another combination to think about if you are going down the SME
path is the 309.  A lot of guys sell them on their way to an IV.Vi
or a V, and you can pick em up pretty cheap, usually about a thousand
bucks.

If you are pretty good with tiny parts, you can put the damping trough
from the higher priced models on a 309 and on all but the most resolving
systems, it gets in the neighborhood for a lot less money and you
have the option of removable headshells!

Another table that can be a killer deal is a used Oracle that doesn't
work due to motor issues (they all had em)  Origin Live makes a great
motor upgrade kit for these and we will be reporting on this soon.

You can usually buy a dead Oracle for under 500 bucks, get the OL kit
for about 600, that SME 309 and all the goodies for about 1400 and
have a pretty state of the art rig for a reasonable amount of cash.

If you don't like to fuss, I've been seeing used Rega P9's for about
3000 and this too is a fantastic table. 

good luck on the hunt!

[low.pfile]

2big
you mention the VAC pre.....what is the rest of your system?
Good luck with your TT search.

[2bigears]

thks guys,that was the catch,5 large for 10 points,that's just crazy.sounds like cdp talk.system is:DNA 500,VAC Ren Sig pre,feeding SP Tech Revs. [transport with PS Audio L4] and of course the tt Technics 1210 with Benz.just getting back to vinyl and even though there is ZERO CONVEINENCE,it's too cool. just don't want to buy a piece of regret only to upgrade soon.

[2bigears]

Teres,nice lookin' stuff,none on the Gon Marbles, sooo i guess you gotta sell me yours that looks like big $$ stuff,not sure my marrage would stand that test...Wife-TT..Wife-TT.. hummm

[TONEPUB]

Don't think I'll be getting a "next" turntable either.  (got four already...)
But if I did, it would be an SME 20/12.

Probably not though.

[WGH]

Hey 2bigears - have you ever mentioned what this new table is sitting on?

I know I can have feedback problems even though the equipment sits on a heavy white oak buffet in the next room, its the old wood floors through out the house that vibrate nicely with heavy loud bass. A table without a suspension (VPI) would howl like a banshee unless I made ugly isolation platforms or spent an additional $300 or more hoping something like a Cloud9 would work.

The table I use now is perfectly isolated with a suspended arm/platter unit. If I ever needed to upgrade then a SOTA would be on my short list.

Wayne