AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Selah Audio Owners => Topic started by: HT cOz on 8 Sep 2018, 03:20 am
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I’ll be sharing my build of Rick’s Ceramica kit. Let me first start by thanking a few people who have been very helpful bringing this project to realization. First thanks to Rick for creating a great kit and making it available to DIY customers. Rick has been great to work with on this project. I also need to thank Ivica who goes by Bassivus on DIYAudio. Ivica is a very talented artist whose speaker project on diyaudio caught my eye and has graciously agreed to help me design the Translam Cabinet.
Now a confession, I’m not sure I’ll be able to complete this project as it is greater is scope than any of my previous builds or work. I’m willing to try and maybe even fail but am happy to be on the journey and share my learnings in this thread. To make it even more challenging, I’m living in India and wil be working this project in a culture vastly different than the USA and in languages which I’m not familiar. However, India also has its advantage in great craftsmen, technology, and lower costs than back home.
So with that let it begin..
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I received my first teaser rendering from Ivica this morning and I’m already really excited. I like the scale and shape of the design. It looks great to me.
I’m also checking dimensions by Primary school method. Better safe than sorry when it comes to a project like this. I’m also going out today to check out what kind of wood is available. I’ll try to snap some pics to give you an idea of what its like to navigate a project like this in India.
Here are a few photos...
First look...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184169)
Checking future cuts
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184170)
Lined up CNC shop today
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184220)
Front baffle will be two 18mm sheets of Baltic Burch laminated together. The bass port will be shaped during the CNC process
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184290)
Continue to work on the shape of the internal surfaces and the overall shape. The internal shape is sculpted to reduce standing waves and reflective surfaces.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184314)
A few pics of the work on the midrange box.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184343)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184344)
More eye candy
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184697)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184698)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184699)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184700)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184701)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184702)
Thanks for following...
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Similar footprint to what I am working on now, with Rick's Essenza kit. Great start, looks to be a great project!
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Looks awesome! Subscribed.......... :popcorn:
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Similar footprint to what I am working on now, with Rick's Essenza kit. Great start, looks to be a great project!
Your build is going awesome, it’s like the big brother!
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Design work continues on the front baffle. It is fairly thick at 36mm and we need consider the back wave of the driver and how a thick baffle can be made without negativel impacting the sound of the speaker. Here is an example of techniques that work and don’t work.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184291)
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Design work continues on the front baffle. It is fairly thick at 36mm and we need consider the back wave of the driver and how a thick baffle can be made without negativel impacting the sound of the speaker. Here is an example of techniques that work and don’t work.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184291)
from http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/chamfer.htm
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Hi everybody! Just want to say hello to everyone here. I'm helping @ HT cOz on design of the box. Really enjoying this stuff
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184681)
8)
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That speaker is going to be a work of art!
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Hello HT cOz and welcome to AudioCircle Ivica who goes by Bassivus.
As a builder of several translam projects and follower of many more I have a bit of advice I want to share while the design remains in CAD before the sawdust flies and glue is uncapped.
Allow some mechanism for compliance between the baffle (grey in your renders) and speaker body (red in render above). As the baffle and speaker body undergo changes in temperature and humidity the wood or MDF will grow and contract. I have seen translams fail when the baffle moves in the up/down direction and when solidly glued to the laminated body pull open the layers causing cracks. Like this sad case http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker).
From page 12 of the above linked thread:
(http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26546&d=1476897345)
It is like the furniture making issue of attaching a table top or cabinet top to its legs or base. Its wood and they are going to move, at different rates. For furniture slotted screw clamps are favored. For a speaker like this I would use a bolt on baffle or glue it on with an adhesive that retains some flexibility like RTV.
When the entire speaker is translam like my FA120A build seen below this is not an issue. The trade off is the high stress time when machining the driver and other holes when one slip writes off the entire box!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20233)
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Hello HT cOz and welcome to AudioCircle Ivica who goes by Bassivus.
As a builder of several translam projects and follower of many more I have a bit of advice I want to share while the design remains in CAD before the sawdust flies and glue is uncapped.
Allow some mechanism for compliance between the baffle (grey in your renders) and speaker body (red in render above). As the baffle and speaker body undergo changes in temperature and humidity the wood or MDF will grow and contract. I have seen translams fail when the baffle moves in the up/down direction and when solidly glued to the laminated body pull open the layers causing cracks. Like this sad case http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker).
From page 12 of the above linked thread:
(http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26546&d=1476897345)
It is like the furniture making issue of attaching a table top or cabinet top to its legs or base. Its wood and they are going to move, at different rates. For furniture slotted screw clamps are favored. For a speaker like this I would use a bolt on baffle or glue it on with an adhesive that retains some flexibility like RTV.
When the entire speaker is translam like my FA120A build seen below this is not an issue. The trade off is the high stress time when machining the driver and other holes when one slip writes off the entire box!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20233)
As an amateur but somewhat experienced woodwooker I have to ask about the separation of the joint you've shown. To me it looks like a glue separation problem and not something you could attribute to wood expansion. Just curious?
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Hi everybody! Just want to say hello to everyone here. I'm helping @ HT cOz on design of the box. Really enjoying this stuff
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184681)
8)
Bassivus welcome to AudioCircle we are lucky to have you here. Your work so far is inspiring and its as if you read my mind of what this build could be!
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Hello HT cOz and welcome to AudioCircle Ivica who goes by Bassivus.
As a builder of several translam projects and follower of many more I have a bit of advice I want to share while the design remains in CAD before the sawdust flies and glue is uncapped.
Allow some mechanism for compliance between the baffle (grey in your renders) and speaker body (red in render above). As the baffle and speaker body undergo changes in temperature and humidity the wood or MDF will grow and contract. I have seen translams fail when the baffle moves in the up/down direction and when solidly glued to the laminated body pull open the layers causing cracks. Like this sad case http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker).
From page 12 of the above linked thread:
(http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26546&d=1476897345)
It is like the furniture making issue of attaching a table top or cabinet top to its legs or base. Its wood and they are going to move, at different rates. For furniture slotted screw clamps are favored. For a speaker like this I would use a bolt on baffle or glue it on with an adhesive that retains some flexibility like RTV.
When the entire speaker is translam like my FA120A build seen below this is not an issue. The trade off is the high stress time when machining the driver and other holes when one slip writes off the entire box!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20233)
Norman thanks for stopping by and sharing your experience. It's valuable to have real world advice on this because it is basically an expensive time consuming experiment. However, I've looked at Translam builds for years in admiration and always wanted to give one a go.
Its like you read our minds... Bassivus and I spent a lot of last night discussing this very post and coming up with a mitigation strategy. So far we are thinking the following:
1). Lots of glue and not excessive force while clamping
2). Seal cabinet inside and out with Bitumen Paint or Glue
3). We changed to 360 style cutouts which will consume more wood but should also be stronger
4). We are floating the front baffle with 3 inside screws and 3 outside screws (six total per side)
We are still thinking about a thin layer of Sorbathane to further isolate the baffle and allow movement. Not sure yet on this. I need to check out RTV glue. I think we might make the baffle removable. You can see some of the change in thinking in these renderings.
Now 360 parts instead of C style
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184703)
Speaker view without floating baffle attached
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184704)
Target look
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184700)
If you guys have any hints or tips, we are all ears. As you say changes in the digital realm are quick and easy, once the sawdust if flying changes become painful.
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As an amateur but somewhat experienced woodwooker I have to ask about the separation of the joint you've shown. To me it looks like a glue separation problem and not something you could attribute to wood expansion. Just curious?
Steve in reading the thread it was a bit of mystery, but the final consensus is that the cabinet shrank in low humidity and the baffle didn't. That shrinkage forced the crack.
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Steve in reading the thread it was a bit of mystery, but the final consensus is that the cabinet shrank in low humidity and the baffle didn't. That shrinkage forced the crack.
I think I understand, but what is confusing is a glued joint is much stronger than the wood plys themselves, so to see such a clean separation suggests to me a problem with the glue joint.
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This does look very sweet! Great job!!!
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Hello HT cOz and welcome to AudioCircle Ivica who goes by Bassivus.
As a builder of several translam projects and follower of many more I have a bit of advice I want to share while the design remains in CAD before the sawdust flies and glue is uncapped.
Allow some mechanism for compliance between the baffle (grey in your renders) and speaker body (red in render above). As the baffle and speaker body undergo changes in temperature and humidity the wood or MDF will grow and contract. I have seen translams fail when the baffle moves in the up/down direction and when solidly glued to the laminated body pull open the layers causing cracks. Like this sad case http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42594-My-first-project-is-a-4-way-speaker).
From page 12 of the above linked thread:
(http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26546&d=1476897345)
It is like the furniture making issue of attaching a table top or cabinet top to its legs or base. Its wood and they are going to move, at different rates. For furniture slotted screw clamps are favored. For a speaker like this I would use a bolt on baffle or glue it on with an adhesive that retains some flexibility like RTV.
When the entire speaker is translam like my FA120A build seen below this is not an issue. The trade off is the high stress time when machining the driver and other holes when one slip writes off the entire box!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20233)
Hello, Thanks for the welcome and for valuable building experience info!
I have some building experience also and I'm quite aware of the climate/ temperature/ humidity issues. I'm fighting that with my instrument - 150 year old Double Bass, whole my life and have read a lot on the subject. Plywood shrinks the most on the material thickness side and that multiplied with layer count makes the problem above.
Those things must be taken into consideration when doing the design, so Robert and me changed the design as he already reported.
We welcome all the opinions and advice!
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Hi everybody! Just want to say hello to everyone here. I'm helping @ HT cOz on design of the box. Really enjoying this stuff
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184681)
8)
I continued to be amazed at how well you are realizing the concept!!!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184733)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184734)
Saw dust coming soon...
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I think I understand, but what is confusing is a glued joint is much stronger than the wood plys themselves, so to see such a clean separation suggests to me a problem with the glue joint.
I'll second this.
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I'll second this.
Steidl and steve1580,
The failure photo I posted was from a project by Steve Manning who frequents the htguide.com Mission Possible DIY forum.
Here is one of Steve Manning’s builds in partnership with JonMarsh. These are laminated bamboo plywood picture from page 24 of the long detailed build thread. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43049-Minerva-Monitor-quot-Patience-my-ass-I-m-going-to-go-build-something-quot (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43049-Minerva-Monitor-quot-Patience-my-ass-I-m-going-to-go-build-something-quot)
(http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27928&d=1511130846)
Steve wrote about the failure he suffered in a previous project:
“Hey Ryan ..... after I had mine crack I did a lot of research online into the issue. First, I was rather surprised by how much the BB actually moves over time, I thought it was a lot more stable. That being said, sealing it helps but will not stop it it completely. I think the biggest part is learning to work with it and not constrain the layers from moving. What I found in most cases where these projects crack and what I did myself, is we glue the baffles, backs, sides, what ever, in place across the lamination's. This "try's" to prevent the wood from moving ....... not.
If you look at say what Magico did when they used BB with the aluminum baffles and backs for their cabinets ..... they had o-rings in the baffles and backs and the two were bolted together as a unit. That way they floated independent to the wood portion of the cabinet. That way the BB could breath as needed without cracking.
This is of course all conjecture on my part, but I don't think I'm too far off.
Steve”
So restating what I read Steve saying and the opinion I have is yes “a glued joint is much stronger than the wood plys themselves” and that is exactly the issue. The baffle glued at a right angle to the laminated buildup moves most along its length and when solidly glued to the plywood or MDF stackup that movement can cause a failure. HT cOz gets it and now has in his design an air tight interface between the horizontal laminated sections and vertical baffle.
Here are a couple of pics of my last translam design, the baffle is glued using RTV with ~1/16” ~2mm clearance space all around between horizontal laminated plywood layers and vertical baffle.
(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Dsc_0089-cropped.jpg)
(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/204-ACG-pic-24-cropped.jpg)
Another hint/encouragement to HT cOz is I see in the renders holes I presume are for alignment. Good! Aligning the layers during the glue-up is vital unless you enjoy descending into sanding purgatory where time stands still as innumerable sanding sheets clog and sanders’ motors expire. I have tried the following alignment methods:
- All-thread metal rods. The idea was to get both alignment and clamping. Big fail, if the alignment holes are large enough to get the plywood down the all-thread the layers do not align with sufficient tolerance. Also a builder on DIYaudio.com who did a six foot tall translam line array and left the metal rods in suffered cracks when the differences in the thermal expansion characteristics of wood vs metal happened.
- While gluing manually align each layer and pin with brad nails. Better but makes gluing (even more) slow and tedious and is still prone to misalignment.
- Use wood dowels in holes as in your render. Best solution I have used, my speaker shown above used ¼” dowels in ¼” holes and the layers were very well aligned after glueup. I used the short dowels one can buy precut for making doweled wood joints. I would not use long dowels, they will bind up as you try and slide the layers down them. I had extra alignment holes so when layers 1 & 2 filled a hole I moved over to the adjacent hole for layer 2 & 3. Then the original hole is available again. Or you could custom cut dowels long enough to align but short enough not to fill the hole so it remains available for the next layer. In your renders I see 8 alignment holes. In my experience 4 is plenty so you could alternate which four you use as the layers are added. Final doweling hint is if like me you only drill the alignment holes partly through the top and bottom layers check the dowel length protruding to align that top plate. I almost cracked one when the alignment dowel bottomed in its hole.
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You are a master speaker designer/builder, period. Have yet to hear your creations however your dedication, craftsmanship and engineering skills are very impressive.
Looks great.
charles
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Steidl and steve1580,
The failure photo I posted was from a project by Steve Manning who frequents the htguide.com Mission Possible DIY forum.
Here is one of Steve Manning’s builds in partnership with JonMarsh. These are laminated bamboo plywood picture from page 24 of the long detailed build thread. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43049-Minerva-Monitor-quot-Patience-my-ass-I-m-going-to-go-build-something-quot (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43049-Minerva-Monitor-quot-Patience-my-ass-I-m-going-to-go-build-something-quot)
(http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27928&d=1511130846)
Steve wrote about the failure he suffered in a previous project:
“Hey Ryan ..... after I had mine crack I did a lot of research online into the issue. First, I was rather surprised by how much the BB actually moves over time, I thought it was a lot more stable. That being said, sealing it helps but will not stop it it completely. I think the biggest part is learning to work with it and not constrain the layers from moving. What I found in most cases where these projects crack and what I did myself, is we glue the baffles, backs, sides, what ever, in place across the lamination's. This "try's" to prevent the wood from moving ....... not.
If you look at say what Magico did when they used BB with the aluminum baffles and backs for their cabinets ..... they had o-rings in the baffles and backs and the two were bolted together as a unit. That way they floated independent to the wood portion of the cabinet. That way the BB could breath as needed without cracking.
This is of course all conjecture on my part, but I don't think I'm too far off.
Steve”
So restating what I read Steve saying and the opinion I have is yes “a glued joint is much stronger than the wood plys themselves” and that is exactly the issue. The baffle glued at a right angle to the laminated buildup moves most along its length and when solidly glued to the plywood or MDF stackup that movement can cause a failure. HT cOz gets it and now has in his design an air tight interface between the horizontal laminated sections and vertical baffle.
Here are a couple of pics of my last translam design, the baffle is glued using RTV with ~1/16” ~2mm clearance space all around between horizontal laminated plywood layers and vertical baffle.
(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Dsc_0089-cropped.jpg)
(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/204-ACG-pic-24-cropped.jpg)
Another hint/encouragement to HT cOz is I see in the renders holes I presume are for alignment. Good! Aligning the layers during the glue-up is vital unless you enjoy descending into sanding purgatory where time stands still as innumerable sanding sheets clog and sanders’ motors expire. I have tried the following alignment methods:
- All-thread metal rods. The idea was to get both alignment and clamping. Big fail, if the alignment holes are large enough to get the plywood down the all-thread the layers do not align with sufficient tolerance. Also a builder on DIYaudio.com who did a six foot tall translam line array and left the metal rods in suffered cracks when the differences in the thermal expansion characteristics of wood vs metal happened.
- While gluing manually align each layer and pin with brad nails. Better but makes gluing (even more) slow and tedious and is still prone to misalignment.
- Use wood dowels in holes as in your render. Best solution I have used, my speaker shown above used ¼” dowels in ¼” holes and the layers were very well aligned after glueup. I used the short dowels one can buy precut for making doweled wood joints. I would not use long dowels, they will bind up as you try and slide the layers down them. I had extra alignment holes so when layers 1 & 2 filled a hole I moved over to the adjacent hole for layer 2 & 3. Then the original hole is available again. Or you could custom cut dowels long enough to align but short enough not to fill the hole so it remains available for the next layer. In your renders I see 8 alignment holes. In my experience 4 is plenty so you could alternate which four you use as the layers are added. Final doweling hint is if like me you only drill the alignment holes partly through the top and bottom layers check the dowel length protruding to align that top plate. I almost cracked one when the alignment dowel bottomed in its hole.
Norman,
A huge Thank You for taking the time to post these learnings on stacked laminate designs. Also thanks for connecting the dots on Steve's build as I had not found the second thread. Undertaking this for the first time is a huge challenge and risk but I'm willing to learn and even fail. Thats all part of the fun for me.
Thanks,
Robert
Latest pic
These are the 6 mm dowels that I'm planning to use. I will alternate 4 per stack with the 8 planned holes.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184830)
Nice cross section!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184829)
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This week we've focused on getting the speaker feet ready. The design will be finalized soon and this rendering gives a good idea of what they will look like.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184936)
I sourced aluminum plate which is ~18mm thick, these two plates weigh 35 pounds :o I also found a machine shop with 5 axis machines that can complete the milling.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184895)
Finally, Ivica started to sketch up some ideas for speaker grills. I think this shape is pretty cool as it completes the circle, so to speak.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184939)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184938)
We are getting closer to a complete design.
:thumb:
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What's the projected cost of this build?
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I’m not really sure, less in India than most places. The machine work is 14 hours of estimated work, aluminium ~$100, $300 on wood but will probably need more. Not sure about CNC and paint. This is my main entertainment so I’m pretty chill on the spend. I wanted to push my boundaries and explore the possible in Chennai. 8)
Plus working with Ivica is awesome he is so talented and I think Ricks design is sweet.
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What's the projected cost of this build?
I'm projecting its gonna cost 10 times less than it would be as commercial product 8)
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It has been a while since updating the thread and progress is being made. I've switched wood types to an Indian made Moisture Resistant HDF. The material is very nice to machine and should make painting very easy. It is very dense ~33% heavier than Baltic Birch. I think it will be more stable but can also use this first build as a trial if I don't like the outcome. This weekend I was able to have two parts test cut and glued together. The design is complete and will be approved for cutting this week. I should have all the parts by this weekend. I'm very happy to have it moving into production as I've wanted to to a project like this for a long time. I think Rick thought I was a bit nuts in the beginning :lol:... Here are some photos.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186625)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186626)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186627)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186628)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186628)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186630)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186629)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186631)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186631)
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Very nice!! How many pieces will it take to stack and complete the cabinet? Doweled the whole way up too? That should make finishing so much easier too. What's your plan for finishing? Veneer or paint?
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Each speaker has 56 of 9 different varieties. The CNC shop also has a spray booth and drying room so I think I will go automotive paint maybe Gun Metal Gray Metallic. The funny thing is they are very enthusiastic to do the assembly, finish, craft metal base, and speaker grills. Ivica would go nuts at this place with possibilities. I don't think they understand that I'm having fun doing some of the work myself. Although being finished in a week also has its appeal...
Each color represents a different type of part.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186635)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186636)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186632)
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oops
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Are you planning on selling these? If not, mind sharing the cost of the CNC and finishing?
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I like the cabinets, quite beautiful actually. Didn’t know you were in Chennai, my family’s hometown.
Best,
Anand.
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Are you planning on selling these? If not, mind sharing the cost of the CNC and finishing?
My biggest desire is to see if I could build what I think is a world class speaker. Big shout out to Rick for offering the kits and Ivica for offering help with cabinet design. Now the rest is up to me... :popcorn:
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I like the cabinets, quite beautiful actually. Didn’t know you were in Chennai, my family’s hometown.
Best,
Anand.
Wow it's a small world. I'm working here on a three year assignment with about seven months left. My family stayed two years, so in the last year I've been occupying my time with speakers and amps etc. Chennai is amazing for building and doing work in general. Inside and outside of the office I'm very impressed with the people. It does take a little time to see through hustle and bustle of India.
A few more renderings...
White speaker matching white drivers
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186637)
Back panel is machined from aluminium plate
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186639)
Front baffle cut by CNC to fit drivers
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186641)
Channels cut into all parts to route wires
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186638)
Rear side of front baffle, attached by nuts from inside cabinet
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186640)
Ivica thinks of everything... lol
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Wow it's a small world. I'm working here on a three year assignment with about seven months left. My family stayed two years, so in the last year I've been occupying my time with speakers and amps etc. Chennai is amazing for building and doing work in general. Inside and outside of the office I'm very impressed with the people. It does take a little time to see through hustle and bustle of India.
A few more renderings...
\
\
\
Ivica thinks of everything... lol
You are welcome! :singing:
Just build them right! :thumb:
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Update to Translam build, I've got about half the parts now. It's time to break out the glue :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187459)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187461)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187460)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187467)
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Any more updates? I'm loving this build...
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Hey Ed thanks for the support a lot of inspiration has come from your work.
Mid bass upper cabinet without sand. Notice the CNC work on the top and bottom to creat bevels
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189503)
Aquarium sand is added to voids and the top is set for glue up. This upper cabinet is stout!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189504)
Sanding of the unit is progressing and isn’t hard but takes time
Here is a shot of some of the interior CNC bevels
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189506)
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Ok this is how I feel at this point in the build, unfinished cabinet now weighs 40kg
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189735)
Wires are in more sanding needed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189736)
Tops on more sanding needed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189739)
The build stalled because I needed more dowels - took a few hours driving around the city to find a new supply
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189740)
These buggers have me really stalled, waiting for the parts to arrive from USA. India is strangely a mix of metric and imperial measures. Finding M8 items is way harder than you would think.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189741)
You can see a nearly fully sanded cabinet and some of the inner waste parts stacked on top. I have about 4 feet of these... hum what to do with them?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189742)
Baffle fit has been a bit challenging but will be ok, the biggest hurdle is how to drill the port hole. I've been giving it a lot of thought!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189737)
A cool shot of some of the unique parts that have gone into the build.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189507)
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Nicely done and great progress! It's too bad I'm not there as Tamil is my native tongue and although the middle and upper class are well versed in English, that's usually not true of the blue collar worker!
Impressive!
So since your stint will be over in 7 or so months, will you be shipping those suckers back stateside?
Best,
Anand.
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Nicely done and great progress! It's too bad I'm not there as Tamil is my native tongue and although the middle and upper class are well versed in English, that's usually not true of the blue collar worker!
Impressive!
So since your stint will be over in 7 or so months, will you be shipping those suckers back stateside?
Best,
Anand.
Yes for sure, I think the opportunities in India are very good with a growing middle class and disposable income. I have a nearly empty container provided to me for my return trip, so if your wanting something from India, just let me know. Actually, a friend of mine is also going back so consider it two... lol
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Weekend update
Finished the base section of the speaker and added the M8 screw inserts. At 25mm these were not easy to screw into the tough HDF.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190004)
This was my worst joint which needed to be sanded smooth. I'm not sure what happened to cause the shift could be a lot of factors maybe more than one coming together.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190006)
19 minutes later with 60 grit sand paper it is all worked out.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190007)
Ready for the next stage: Mount port tube, sand and fill gaps, and pre-paint
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190005)
I dropped the speakers off at the CNC shop for hole cutting and fabrication of a mount for the port tube. I know slight cheating but I'm not into buying 220v tools! :green:
I'm looking forward to post production and getting them into paint. This is one area where being in India will pay huge dividends as the amount of sanding is very big but the workers here are happy to work on a project for good pay.
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Really enjoying watching your progress. Didn't catch what was so tricky about the bass reflex port though...?
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The difficulty is in cutting the exact hole to fit the port. It’s back on track now.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190963)
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Looking good!
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Ceramica work continues, baffle is glued up and first coat of primer is on. I have to make a choice between light and dark... :eyebrows:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192348)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192347)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192404)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192405)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192406)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192407)
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Great work!
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More progress on the build. I’ve selected a very white pearl with high gloss finish. You can see sample below. We’ve done two layers of primer and two layers of paint. White is pretty tough as the dark HDF shows through and especially since all sides are end joints. So I’ve instructed the crew to paint, sand, paint, sand until it’s perfect.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193236)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193234)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193233)
Next up is the speaker bases, they need to be machined from aluminum and it took me a while to find the right people. Finally I found a great group who is a team of five with 2,3,4,5 axis CNC equipment and on-site engineers. This is an example of small camera parts they are building from aluminum stock in the 5 axis machine. Looking forward to seeing these bases next week.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193237)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193238)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193235)
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Pearl gloss while paint is finished, next stop final assembly!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193493)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193492)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193491)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193493)
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Stunning! :thumb:
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One done and one to go...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193639)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193638)
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Getting closer, next stop is getting the bases completed.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193704)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193705)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193706)
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Wow, great and other exclamations!
Congratulations on getting them up and "running."
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Looking awesome! You must be excited!
Best,
Anand.
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Thanks all! It is exciting as I’ve dreamed of doing an epic build for a long time. Last night I noticed that my amp was having problems so I’ve not really listened to them properly. I’m wishing that I had chosen a different path on my amp. It’s all good though and part of the journey.
Rick has been great and answered all my questions along the way. If you want a kit he is a great resource and provider of high quality speakers.
I wish I could do another to apply all the lessons that I’ve learned. Some real surprises here and there.
Cheers
Robert
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Really outstanding work HT! Thank you for taking the time to post the photos of the different stages. You have the patience of a saint and the skill of a seasoned carpenter. And yes, Rick is a terrific resource and makes a truly fine product. I’d love to make one of his kits. Maybe some day.
Cheers,
Lester
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Absolutely beautiful!!! How is the burn in coming... how do the sound?
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Hi Robert what is the issue with your amplifier? What is the sensitivity of your speakers? Are you having clipping issues?
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They look great! When are you making the next pair? :P
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Really outstanding work HT! Thank you for taking the time to post the photos of the different stages. You have the patience of a saint and the skill of a seasoned carpenter. And yes, Rick is a terrific resource and makes a truly fine product. I’d love to make one of his kits. Maybe some day.
Cheers,
Lester
Thanks Lester, patience yes - seasoned carpenter no. This is only my second build, but the real credit goes to Ivica on the cabinet. I had a 3d color coded model to reference. I could actually pull a part out of the stack and examine it. Great stuff.
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Dude!! Great job, they look awesome!
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Hi Robert what is the issue with your amplifier? What is the sensitivity of your speakers? Are you having clipping issues?
Hey Nick, the speakers are 88db efficient and they rock out. I'm typically listening in the 80db range so no clipping. I'm not sure whats wrong with the amp but I'm getting almost pink like noise from the tweets, mids, and bass sections. I noticed last night at 1am. I plugged the Modrwright into my Marantz integrated and no issues. I decided to just listen to the Marantz dac/amp tonight and it is sounding really good. The Modwright power tube is a bit microphonic. I have new tubes at home and will bring them back in May. My amp is DIY so perhaps I've messed it up or something. Painful but not preventing me from enjoying the speakers... :popcorn:
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Absolutely beautiful!!! How is the burn in coming... how do the sound?
Hey Ron,
They are starting to sound really good, I can see why Rick has hinted these are big time winners. Even with modest electronics they are very pleasing.
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Dude!! Great job, they look awesome!
Thanks Tomy - I think when I told Rick that I was going to build a Translam Ceramica his BS antenna went off, but I can see the finish line now.
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Thanks Tomy - I think when I told Rick that I was going to build a Translam Ceramica his BS antenna went off, but I can see the finish line now.
That's so great. BTW, whenever I see you post I'm reminded of the speaker cables you made years ago. I still have them and use them in the mix every so often, great cables!
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They look great! When are you making the next pair? :P
This is addicting, you should see the mad awesome designs Ivica has hidden in Solidworks! I would probably not make another big tower as they are so heavy. I'm super glad I didn't step up to bigger bass drivers. I'll admit my retirement hobby will be toying on similar projects. Ok 15 years from now, you guys will see my 3rd speaker project. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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That's so great. BTW, whenever I see you post I'm reminded of the speaker cables you made years ago. I still have them and use them in the mix every so often, great cables!
Tomy that's awesome, hold on to them. Complete unobtanium the Japanese plant closed and the amount of time I put into a pair of those was insane! Striping the wire and hand braiding, someone should have turned me into the funny farm. I need to make one last pair, my own! AudioCircle also grew up, I got a family and started working at Royal Dutch Shell. However, the bug never completely leaves you... my drawer next to my desk.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193767)
I haven't sold a cable for atleast 7 years though... so don't turn me into the police! :wink: :wink: :wink:
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I received a question about how I attached the baffle and what steps I took to prevent moisture splitting the layers. Below are a few pics and what I did to prevent splitting.
This pic is actually the baffle being glued into place.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192347)
This pic shows how each layer was a complete circle and the baffle attached as a separate unit.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184733)
To prevent splitting:
1). I used Moisture Resistant HDF
2). I made each ring like an O and not a C
3). I glued the inside of the cabinet
I believe this is overkill but should work. If I was to do it over I would probably use the C approach to reduce material usage. The ultimate would be to use a Baltic birch and stabilize it via vacuum and cactus juice. I’ve seen posts where manufactures use glue and negative pressure to seal the mdf.
Have fun, Translam are awesome!
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Thanks for responding so quickly!
I was hoping to go with a C shape to save on material. When you say you glued the inside of the cabinet, do you mean as a sealer? If so, I was thinking of using shellac...do you think that would work just as well?
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I used a mixture of 50% wood glue and water inside the cabinet. I don’t think anything would work better for sealing the inside. It’s probably not worth the trouble to use a different method. I think C shapes will work, definitely easier and less expensive.
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Good Lord, Oz.
Your speakers are a work of functional art.
When it comes to A\V, only too much is enough.
Kudos to You & Rick