[Thanksgramps]

Thanks for posting the pics Peter.  It's fun to share in your excitement.  Gotta ask on that first one though, with the guy unloading the truck.  It doesn't look very "Alaska-ish" with the nicely manicured lawns and birch trees.  Where are the mountains, oceans, glaciers and bald eagles?   You could at least wait to take the picture for a moose to walk into the frame.   

[pstrisik]

Thanks for posting the pics Peter.  It's fun to share in your excitement.  Gotta ask on that first one though, with the guy unloading the truck.  It doesn't look very "Alaska-ish" with the nicely manicured lawns and birch trees.  Where are the mountains, oceans, glaciers and bald eagles?   You could at least wait to take the picture for a moose to walk into the frame.   

Ok, but you know this will delay my initial SS8 review! 

Here are a couple of young moose - one crossing the street in front of our neighbors' and one in our front yard:

 

Eagles on glacier ice (technically an iceberg):



Denali (Mt. McKinley) from a river boat near Talkeetna:



A winter sunrise from our front yard:



Suzanne, Andy and me enjoying September at Hatcher Pass:



And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.........

......Peter 

[srb]

I don't suppose Jim has shipped any speakers to Unalakleet?  A pair of SoundScape 8s to the Tweto cabin in Ungalik?

Steve

[pstrisik]

I don't suppose Jim has shipped any speakers to Unalakleet?  A pair of SoundScape 8s to the Tweto cabin in Ungalik?

Steve

Don't know about that, they could use the entertainment in those remote spots if they are not out whaling or looking at Russia from their back doors, but he has shipped to Nome.  There were a pair in Anchorage, but the owner did not reply to Jim's email back in April to see if I could go listen.  Nome I would've had to fly to, so that wasn't practical!

..........Peter

[R Swerdlow]

Peter

Congrats on the new SS8s  !  The finish is spectacular.  We all want to hear more of your listening impressions - don't keep us waiting too long.

Thanks for the Alaska photos.  They remind me of old times I spent there in Anchorage.  I especially liked the winter sunrise and Hatcher Pass.  Was the photo of the 2 eagles taken near Seward?

Richard

[jimdgoulding]

What a life I'm imagining you have up there!  You look like a happy couple and I'd have a large dog, too, if it were me.  All the best.

[pstrisik]

Thanks again guys. 

Without further ado, here's my initial impressions with photos at the end. 


First Impressions . . .

So….   All I can start with is “Wow!!”  “Just Wow!!”

No fancy descriptions.  Things just fall into place.  Natural from top to bottom.  I’m preferring the rear grill on solid for the clearer imaging and, to me, more realistic sound of instruments.  It keeps that focus that gives the richer textures more presence, like stand up bass strings, piano notes, trombones, etc.  Jim says it best, that the music is “just there.”  It’s almost like conventional descriptions aren’t adequate.  The music is too real for that, those descriptions just seem too reductionistic.

They sure do play low and cleanly.  Can easily do without subs for 2-channel. 

One thing I found that is interesting.  Up until now, I’ve preferred running through my pre/pro with Audyssey XT32 working and dynamic eq on.  I’m not sure if I still will prefer that as these speakers sound better with direct mode (bypassing Audyssey and xover) than anything yet.  I have an ARC preamp that just made things seem harsher to me before.  I’m curious to see if that is not the case with the SS8’s, or even if it will be an improvement for 2 channel.  (I know I need to work on room treatment.)

I’m powering them with a McCormack DNA-250 amp (250wpc at 8/400wpc at 4).  Known for good dynamics and slightly to the warm side.  I also have a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 monos (500w at 8/1000w at 4) Class D amps that I will try.  They are known for being more neutral.  More than twice the power as the McCormack.  I may try the switch this weekend.

On the disappointing side, which I don’t think really has anything to do with the speakers, is my d**n hearing aids still seem to get in the way of the purity.  I was hoping the more laid back nature of the RAAL would reduce that interference.  I guess it is basically a form of distortion that the h/a’s add.  Subtle, but there.  I can’t really circumvent that yet.  Without them, I lose too much detail.  I can only hope the next pair will do better – they do keep improving.

2 Channel Equipment . . .

Sources:

Thorens TD-145 MkII with MicroAcoustics cart. (not connected at the moment)
Dune HD Smart D1 media player (access most of the 2 channel music over the network)
A basic Sony BDP

Amplification:

Bel Canto DAC 2.5
Onkyo PR-SC 5508 pre/pro
McCormack DNA-250
(Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mkii monos in the wings)
ARC LS-17 pre – still to try
Two Rythmik F12 subs

Photos:

My Paradigm center is still on the console, though I am bypassing it.  Initial try with video was positive with just the SS8's (and surrounds), though it was just Twilight Zone.  Dialog was clearer.  We may watch the first episode of Dexter season six tonight.  That will be a good test of SS8's in phantom center mode.

Slide show:

http://img855.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=01fullshot.jpg

Individual Photos (click thumbs):

System:

   


SS8's:

   


Other Equipment:

 


       .........Peter

[randyr]

i live in Nome and i'm fortunate enuf to have a pair of H2T-TL.  They are great!  You could have come up for the end of Iditarod and we could have a listening session.

[pstrisik]

i live in Nome and i'm fortunate enuf to have a pair of H2T-TL.  They are great!  You could have come up for the end of Iditarod and we could have a listening session.

I would love to do that.  Though it might be that the reverse is more likely to occur.  But you never know!

......Peter

[Austin08]

Peter,

Your system looks very nice. The SS8 does fit well in your room and anhor the whole thing together perfectly. I also notice that you set up your speaker with the wider RAAL offset inside. Did you try to swap the left and right speaker the other way around, put some kind of thick blanket over your TV  and pull your speaker away a little further into the room. I did all that and everything was noticeable better. On top of all that, I also put one 4'x4'x8” sound diffuser panel behind each speaker and run the SS8 with the open back open with no polyfill at all. Man, I am glad I did. I could hear big improvement in details and soundstage.

[jd3]

Peter,
On some music I prefer the solid backs on, but I've gotten used to leaving the 'transparent' grill on and in my room that sounds the best overall.  I'm glad they are everything you'd hoped for! I'm interested in your take on going from the McCormack to the BC's.

You are right about the sound, and the one thing I've noticed with them is all the detail I've never heard before.  Everything in the recording is there.  When I changed amps it became even more noticeable to me.

John

[pstrisik]

Peter,

Your system looks very nice. The SS8 does fit well in your room and anhor the whole thing together perfectly. I also notice that you set up your speaker with the wider RAAL offset inside. Did you try to swap the left and right speaker the other way around, put some kind of thick blanket over your TV  and pull your speaker away a little further into the room. I did all that and everything was noticeable better. On top of all that, I also put one 4'x4'x8” sound diffuser panel behind each speaker and run the SS8 with the open back open with no polyfill at all. Man, I am glad I did. I could hear big improvement in details and soundstage.

Actually, the tweeters are offset to the outside.  I figured it gave me a few inches of extra width between left and right drivers.  Given the limits of the space, it made sense to me. 

I will certainly experiment more with the back grill, particularly when I get some treatments up.  It surprises me that you get better detail with it off though.  Soundstage, I can see, but I find a pretty big difference in detail with it on. 

I went back and read Jim's advice on toe in.  A bit different in that he recommends starting with no toe in.  So I tried that.  Surprise!  The soundstage opened up dramatically!  I've never heard such a wide and enveloping soundstage.  In fact, I actually got up to make sure I didn't have the surrounds playing by mistake.  Spooky!  With other speakers, no toe in means the sound seems to come from two separate speakers.  Toeing them in the right amount clicks the image together but soundstage is more defined and centered.  The SS8's can be positioned all the way from straight to pointing right at the MLP.  The nature of the imaging and soundstage change, but they never just sound like two speakers.  This is very nice.

I can try the speakers more into the room as an experiment, but there is not more room to push the couch back permanently.  Hmmm, now that I think about it, I could push it way back and have the walking path to my office area in front of the couch instead of behind it.  I would either need to find a way to have the screen move forward or get a 65 incher though.    I'll have to think about this more.

Similarly, I can experiment with a blanket over the screen, but not practical for regular setup - both in terms of putting it on and off and because most of my music is on the network and the screen displays my library and what is playing.  I think I will start experiment with room treatments using simple acoustic tiles from home depot.  They are cheap enough.  Once I get a sense of what I really need, I could spring for the more expensive stuff (that stuff is both expensive to buy and very expensive to ship up here.  I've not found anyone selling it here.  (I can't complain too loudly anymore with randyr in the house as shipping costs can double for you up in Nome!)

Peter,
On some music I prefer the solid backs on, but I've gotten used to leaving the 'transparent' grill on and in my room that sounds the best overall.  I'm glad they are everything you'd hoped for! I'm interested in your take on going from the McCormack to the BC's.

You are right about the sound, and the one thing I've noticed with them is all the detail I've never heard before.  Everything in the recording is there.  When I changed amps it became even more noticeable to me.

John

You are liking the Pass amps?  They've gotten me intriqued with the idea of totally Class A in solid state.  The 30 wpc (8 ohms) would have me nervous though.  And the step up to 60 watt monos is way expensive.

I did switch over to the Bel Canto's last night.  Listened for a while and switched back to the McCormack.  Initially, I thought the BC's were cleaner, dryer, and with tighter bass.  When I went back to the McC - I realized that they had been too bright and didn't really notice that much difference in the bass.  The McC is warmer and gentler on the high end.  It has that quality that is often described as "musical".  Listening objectively and critically, there may be some aspects that are better in something like the BC's, but overall, the McC is more engaging, get's me moving, helps me forget about the equipment, and is less tiring.

I am having a bit of trouble with perceived brightness.  I'm sure it is my ears, which are unfortunately sensitive.  I seem to have some hyperacusis.  I was hoping the RAAL would be an answer to this with its reputation of being more laid back, but I don't think it is.  Reducing or eliminating toe in helps.  Room treatment I'm sure will help more.  And working with electronics can still help.  Actually, part of my preference for the back grill on may be that the relative level of mids and highs increases with the grill off/transparent grill. 

Another positive discovery, or report...  My wife watched one of her British tv series and said the dialog was clearer.  This is with SS8's and no center compared to the Paradigm's L/R/C.  Tonight is movie night  so I'm looking forward to seeing how things are with a good sound quality movie.

..........Peter



No pictures this post!!

[Austin08]

Peter,

The open back is giving me the ambient astmosphere but as the same time, They also create a little mess in details like you said. Not untill I put the sound diffuser behind them. Everything is perfect. My living/listening room is not an ideal listening room. There is an openning wall into my dinning room. My right speaker is right there so I had issue with soundstage off balance and lost of detail in the right side. But the diffuser came in and save the day.

[Mudslide]

On the disappointing side, which I don’t think really has anything to do with the speakers, is my d**n hearing aids still seem to get in the way of the purity.  I was hoping the more laid back nature of the RAAL would reduce that interference.  I guess it is basically a form of distortion that the h/a’s add.  Subtle, but there.  I can’t really circumvent that yet.  Without them, I lose too much detail.  I can only hope the next pair will do better – they do keep improving.

Hi Peter,
 
Your post brought back a flood of wonderful memories I have from 2009 GTG we organized in Oregon.  It included 3 or 4 different Salk Models.  Jim had just finished a prototype of the SoundScape12...at the time simply called the HT4.  It had a slightly different midrange driver, but the current model is even better.  Below is a snippet from my description of the experience (in a diffent A/C thread) with my wife, who also wears hearing aids, at the SS12's audition.  You might find it interesting.

  But the Soundscapes have forever spoiled me and ruined every other speaker...and I have heard hundreds of expensive models.  I sat there trying to be hyper-critical, trying to diagnose every nuance (sorry Brandon), find any fault or shortcoming, and suddenly ***poof*** all speaker influences disappeared.  It didn't drift away.  I just got slammed by the music and artist.  What speakers? 

Because of a medical ailment, my wife has a hearing disability of a significant extent...wears hearing aids (but had them off for the event because of noise levels/sensitivity).  She doesn't much like music anymore because a lot of it hurts her ears...as it had when in the car on the way over I played part of a new compilation CD I'd just made.  I brought her in to the Salk room and expected her to leave within minutes.  She stayed for an hour listening to that same CD now being played on the Soundscapes at reference levels.  Guess what.  I looked over and she was in tears.  She told me that for the first time in years she was able to enjoy music again.  It gave me chills to hear that.  I don't know what physiological effects were in play, but I don't care either, as it brought me much joy.

I think we sometimes get jaded, or become slaves of the technology, and analyze analyze analyze, and forget the music and what it can do for the soul.  And I don't want to get too philosophical or sappy, but these HT4/Soundscapes bring THAT internal emotion to you before you realize it.  I dunno guys.  I can't describe it better than that.  In my opinion, Jim has built a disappearing machine that drives music into your soul.

Congratulations on your new SS8's, Peter.    Put some great sound out into that beautiful Alaskan air.

Mud

[pstrisik]

Thanks Mud,

Do you have Salks at home?  With RAAL?  Did your wife begin to listen more after that experience? 

.......Peter

[eclein]

Peter- Congrats on your new speakers!!!!! Nice choices all around in your design/color decisions...well done!!!
 When you finally get a ways down the road and the newish thing is a bit less in your face please tell us if you wouldn't mind if your able to just hear the music and not the speakers. Can you get lost in the performance your hearing?
 Percussion timbre, cymbals etc.... do they sound more defined and real than previous listening sessions. Can you hear any instrument you want, when you mentally tune in to it, without effort?
 
 So thats what Mt. McKinley looks like!!!  LOL...very cool, very cool indeed!!!! I always think it must snow all year round anywhere in Alaska just because its Alaska......I've been in Philadelphia area too long. Enjoy!!!!

[Mudslide]

Thanks Mud,

Do you have Salks at home?  With RAAL?  Did your wife begin to listen more after that experience? 

.......Peter

Sadly, no Salks at home, yet.  We had a few...setbacks.  But the day is coming.  Pepsi cans are being feverishly saved.   

She did listen a bit more than usual after the GTG.  But not having the SS12's around, made it not so special for her.  I sympathize with those of you with severe hearing loss.

[pstrisik]

Peter- Congrats on your new speakers!!!!! Nice choices all around in your design/color decisions...well done!!!
 When you finally get a ways down the road and the newish thing is a bit less in your face please tell us if you wouldn't mind if your able to just hear the music and not the speakers. Can you get lost in the performance your hearing?
 Percussion timbre, cymbals etc.... do they sound more defined and real than previous listening sessions. Can you hear any instrument you want, when you mentally tune in to it, without effort?

Thank you!  All of the above is true except for the brightness I perceive that leads to fatigue.  This is something I've struggled with all along the line, so it is not the Salks.  I just had more hope that the ribbon tweeter would be kinder to me.   I am giving it some time for adaptation and doing various equipment switches and tweaks to see what's best.  I need to do some room treatment though.  I'm sure that will help.

 

So thats what Mt. McKinley looks like!!!  LOL...very cool, very cool indeed!!!! I always think it must snow all year round anywhere in Alaska just because its Alaska......I've been in Philadelphia area too long. Enjoy!!!!

Alaska is quite large.  I don't think it snows year round anywhere up here though - except at higher elevations.  In fact Fairbanks, right in the center of the state, is known for the greatest temperature spread in the world.  Minus 50 in winter to the 90's in the summer.  In Anchorage, where I live, summers are typically in 60's to low 70's.  In southeast, where Juneau is, they don't get much snow at all. 

.........Peter

[jtwrace]

Minus 50 in winter to the 90's in the summer.

summers are typically in 60's to low 70's.

Better you then me!   

[pstrisik]

Sadly, no Salks at home, yet.  We had a few...setbacks.  But the day is coming.  Pepsi cans are being feverishly saved.   

She did listen a bit more than usual after the GTG.  But not having the SS12's around, made it not so special for her.  I sympathize with those of you with severe hearing loss.

Thanks, though I don't consider my hearing loss severe.  Maybe moderate.  The problem is with music.  I need some help from aids to get the detail but hearing aids are not made for audiophiles.  More geared for speech.  So they add a bad piece of digital equipment in the chain.  Some tinnitus and hyperacusis make thinks more aggravating.  Figures that music is my love and this is the challenge I'm given.  Then again, those concerts in the 60's and 70's contributed and I can't blame anyone but myself for that!

........Peter