[BachToRock]

lossless,

Zektor makes a quality switcher if you're interested.  I sold my old Sony TA-P9000ES that I formerly used to switch DVD-A and SACD.  Those are not made any longer and they are more expensive (I got nearly double what I paid for it after using it for almost 4 yrs. as the Sony had analog level controls too) and go very quickly on Audiogon.
"

I've got an extra TA-P9000ES if anybody needs one... it is IDEAL for SACD DVD-Audio Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD if you are utilizing the analog outs of the player... I use one with a Panasonic Blu-Ray and a Denon DVD5910... NO processor in the signal path... straight to the Brystons from the TA-P!

[lossless]

any progress bryston?   

[James Tanner]

any progress bryston?   

HI,

The chip sets to do HD audio formats will not be available till March of 08. We will be looking at stripping audio from the HDMI connection at that point.

Some of my friends in high places say we will be very disappointed in the audio noise floor with HDMI audio transmission.

james

[jethro]

James:

I was curious as to where the noise gets introduced.

Thanks, Steve

[Thunder]

James:

I was curious as to where the noise gets introduced.

Thanks, Steve

I've heard that the HDMI connection itself is more prone to jitter than either RCA or XLR connections. 

[James Tanner]

James:

I was curious as to where the noise gets introduced.

Thanks, Steve

Hi Steve,

Not sure as we have not had a chance to look into it ourselves.

james

[Phil A]

James, I've asked before and you indicated it would involve a redesign of the product but is there any possibility of seeing a BP-26 with HT bypass anytime in the near future?  There are those of us with SP1.7s who don't want to end up with a door stop for multi-channel HT.  The falling value of the US dollar has already made things much more expensive for many of us and it is a major concern.  I have a couple of friends who also have SP1.7s.  One told me based on where it stands now (and I understand you don't control getting the chips or what can be accomplished inside the box with what is required to implement HDMI) he is going to sell his unit and live with something else at least for a bit vs. risk basically being left out in the cold.  If the BP 26 with HT bypass is not possible, the question becomes what will be the path for those that have SP1.7s or SP2s that can't be retrofitted?  I understand you don't have a crystal ball but as you can see from the questions asked from many it is a big concern.  Thanks.

[James Tanner]

James, I've asked before and you indicated it would involve a redesign of the product but is there any possibility of seeing a BP-26 with HT bypass anytime in the near future?  There are those of us with SP1.7s who don't want to end up with a door stop for multi-channel HT.  The falling value of the US dollar has already made things much more expensive for many of us and it is a major concern.  I have a couple of friends who also have SP1.7s.  One told me based on where it stands now (and I understand you don't control getting the chips or what can be accomplished inside the box with what is required to implement HDMI) he is going to sell his unit and live with something else at least for a bit vs. risk basically being left out in the cold.  If the BP 26 with HT bypass is not possible, the question becomes what will be the path for those that have SP1.7s or SP2s that can't be retrofitted?  I understand you don't have a crystal ball but as you can see from the questions asked from many it is a big concern.  Thanks.

HI Phil,

Sorry but I really do not have an answer until we get to play with this new technology.  In the best of all possible worlds we will be able to offer a new digital board that will reto-fit into an SP2. It the worst case we will have to start from scratch and offer an SP3. At that point some type of trade in on the SP2 would be the best option I would assume. 

I understand there are people who wish to move on immediately to the products that offer these new HD formats already and I totally understand but our hands are tied until the chips are available to work with.

As for a BP26 with pass-through nothing yet.  The problem is it is a major redesign.



james

[Phil A]

James, thanks for the prompt response.  Would that trade include something for the SP1.7 too (perhaps for a little smaller amount)?  I'm sure there are owner's of the model prior to the 1.7 who are also in limbo waiting to see what will happen.  I fully understand the fact that you have no idea as to what the reality will be until your engineering staff gets the chips and has time to work with them.  If the SP1.7 won't be included in a retrofit what of the people who have upgraded it?  I realize you may not have the answers but it is more than just wanting "to move on immediately to the products that offer these new HD formats."  I do not have them currently and I know others who do not.  If the answer is nothing will be done for SP1.7 owners vs. SP2 owners I understand Bryston must make a cut-off somewhere (not that I am thrilled with it) but if that distinction needs to be made by Bryston all I ask is let us know so that loyal Bryston customers can at least try to get something decent for it while we can on our own. 

[Thunder]

James, I've asked before and you indicated it would involve a redesign of the product but is there any possibility of seeing a BP-26 with HT bypass anytime in the near future? 

Phil, I use my BP26 for both 2 channel and HT. The fact that there is no bypass is not a big deal IMHO because the work around is simple enough. Plug your sp 1.7 analog output for your left and right main into your BP26 analog input (BP26 provides two sets of analog inputs). Next, adjust the volume level through that BP26 input using the sp1.7 test tone and a radio shack meter. Adjust the volume level of the BP26 to match your other channels. Mark that volume level on your BP26 - I used used masking tape and a pen. Whenever you are running the SP1.7, select the correct input on the BP26 and line the volume level to the mark and then control overall volume level for your HT using your SP1.7. It works perfectly well.
 

[Phil A]

Thanks - I've done similar stuff.  I use to have separate DVD-A and SACD players and used a Sony TA-P9000ES multi-channel preamp into the multi-channel input of the SP1.7 and needed to have the volume control within limits.  I'm not looking to have both a BP26 and an SP1.7.  I'm looking for high quality 2-channel that will enable me to go with a reasonably priced rec'r that is is decent as a preamp for the rest of the channels.  My first preference would be for a BP26 with HT bypass so I can have great 2-channel and get a HT rec'r with the features I might want (e.g. HDMI upconversion, HDMI audio and switching and multi-channel analog input) that is not horribly expensive.  If a couple of yrs. down the road, there are changes that I deem require a new rec'r then I can take the old one and use it somewhere like replace an old Marantz 7300 OSE in the rarely used basement system.  James has indicated the re-design of the BP26 won't be happening. 

The whole point of my questions to James was about upgrading the SP1.7 to have the features for the new formats available.  I fully realize I can use a BP-26 and an SP1.7 together but it doesn't interest me as the SP1.7 (or the SP2) can't handle the audio for the new formats.  James has indicated he is not sure if it will be possible and I'm just trying to get info so I can procede to do what is necessary so that I can have the quality 2-channel and more up-to-date formats.  If there will be trade-ins on only the SP2 or on both the SP2 and SP1.7 in the event a new processor is required for the new formats that would impact what I do with it.  James has indicated HDMI 1.3 chips won't be available to Bryston until March 2008 and I'd expect it will take them some time to work with them until they figure out which way Bryston needs to procede with a processor that can handle audio vis HDMI 1.3.  If it is uncertain that my SP1.7 won't be able to be upgraded and Bryston won't consider a trade-in program for other than an SP2, there is no point in me keeping the unit vs. getting what I can for it and noting it can be upgraded to be the sonic equivalent of the SP2.  I have a friend who will likely sell his SP1.7 for that reason and live with something else until it gets sorted out.  He'll probably sell his sooner than I will but I really can't reasonably wait until the point it is definitely not going to be worth anything.  Selling it and even getting a BP-26 makes more sense. 

Thunder, what are you going to do with the SP1.7 when it is a virtual door stop?  Yes it will still be a better pre-amp for the other channels vs. most other things but I'm more of a 2-channel person and I certainly can live with slightly lesser quality for multi-channel, both HT and audio.  Having something that does video processing the way many rec'rs do and some other features would probably be of more use to me that an out-of-date and not worth much SP1.7.  As noted, if technology changes I can always get another rec'r and use the older one somewhere.

[Thunder]

Thunder, what are you going to do with the SP1.7 when it is a virtual door stop?  Yes it will still be a better pre-amp for the other channels vs. most other things but I'm more of a 2-channel person and I certainly can live with slightly lesser quality for multi-channel, both HT and audio.  Having something that does video processing the way many rec'rs do and some other features would probably be of more use to me that an out-of-date and not worth much SP1.7.  As noted, if technology changes I can always get another rec'r and use the older one somewhere.

Hey Phil, I'm not too worried about it. When I make the move to a pre/pro that can handle the new formats, I'll simply sell my SP2 for whatever I can get or trade it in. It's the same issue with my front projector -- keep them long enough and they become virtually worthless on the used market. Things are moving fast and I think it's too early to pull the trigger on a HDMI enabled pre/pro. Tell you one thing though, I won't move down market when I make a change, a pre/pro is too important to the sound of my HT -- movies and concerts. Just my 2 cents....

[Phil A]

The problem for SP1.7 owners is that you can get something for them now on the used market.  If HDMI can't be adapted to it and there is no trade in, it is pretty much nearly worthless.  So the question becomes why throw away $2k?  I can buy an Integra HDMI 1.3 pre-pro or (more likely) a rec'r with HDMI 1.3 (and use it as a pre-pro), pocket the rest of the cash and then find use for the rec'r in the secondary basement or bedroom system.  SP1.7 owners are just hanging in the wind and all I'm asking is for the best info.  If it is they (Bryston) don't know if they can do it (HDMI on the SP 1.7) and it probably won't be treated in a similar manner as an SP2 as a trade-in to Bryston on an HDMI capable pre-pro, I fully understand their position but need to take action to get what I can.  I might even buy a used or new BP26 if I sell the SP1.7.  I do have a complete basement system and bedroom system to watch movies in surround and I can always just get a rec'r for the main system and move the volume control of the BP26 to an appropriate spot (I am the only user).  I care much more about 2-channel and there are many decent sounding rec'rs that are not that expensive.

[pantone172]

I bought my sp1.7 about 6 months ago from a local dealer with the understanding that I can upgrade. The main reason I decided to go with the Sp1.7, was upgradeability. Trust me, there were other great sounding processors out there to choose from. When I purchased the sp1.7, I convinced my wife that this was my last processor for a long while. It had a 20-year warranty and it was upgradeable to future technologies.

So the question is, will Bryston support the sp1.7 when Bryston does HDMI? ?  I don’t feel waiting until may for a decision is in the best interest of the customer. 

Thanks

[Phil A]

I bought my sp1.7 about 6 months ago from a local dealer with the understanding that I can upgrade. The main reason I decided to go with the Sp1.7, was upgradeability. Trust me, there were other great sounding processors out there to choose from. When I purchased the sp1.7, I convinced my wife that this was my last processor for a long while. It had a 20-year warranty and it was upgradeable to future technologies.

So the question is, will Bryston support the sp1.7 when Bryston does HDMI? ?  I don’t feel waiting until may for a decision is in the best interest of the customer. 

Thanks

I totally concur.  My local dealer told me to sell the SP1.7 and buy the SP2.  Dealers, for the most part (not every single one), generally don't care as long as it rings up sales for them.  The consumer is left holding the bag and the manuf. suffers to some degree as well as it does not build confidence when someone as noted above gets told (as I was) that the SP1.7 and SP2 were fully upgradable to HDMI when it becomes available. 

I think James has answered he does not know about the SP1.7 or even the SP2.  I took it from his responses that the an upgraded SP1.7 even though it is the functional equivalent of the SP2 does not have identical room within the chassis.  So I guess the 1st step for them (Bryston) is getting the chips and see if it can be implemented on the SP2.  When that is done they'll look at the SP1.7 to see if it can be accomplished.

While I realize the above can't be definitely answered, my questions are simple enough.  If it can be done with the SP2 but not older versions of the processor, including the SP1.7 upgraded, then are the customers just out in the cold?  For those with SP2s, I'm sure they'd like to know if they are out in the cold too if it can't be retrofitted to the SP2.  If Bryston in such an event will often some type of trade-in, certainly they can tell us a yes or no and whether that scale will be equal or some sort or sliding scale for an SP2, upgraded SP1.7, unupgraded SP1.7, etc.  I would not expect that at this point in time they could furnish amounts but certainly they could say yes or no and what models would be included.  While I may not like it, I fully understand that the repsonse might be that only full-blooded SP2s will get such treatment at least it lets me to some degree where I stand vs. just hanging in the wind.  I've already been given the BS by the local dealer whose motive is just sales dollars (and it's not confined to Bryston - have had it with other brands where things promised to be able to be upgraded are not able to be and it is bad enough the consumer has to then sell it and take the financial beating and that does nothing for brand loyalty).

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

I know people are upset and concerned but you have to understand that as a manufacturer sometimes the technology changes to the point where retrofitting an older version of a unit is simply not cost effect for either the manufacturer or the customer.

A good example is when we moved from the ST to the SST Series of amplifiers. Motorola came out with a new output device that was far more linear than the current devices available. We designed a unit (14B ST) around these new devices and were amazed at how much more linear and stable the amplifiers were.  We also were able to increase the output power approximately 20% relative to the ST versions due to the stability of these new devices.

To make a long story short these new devices allowed us to design much more simplified and stable circuits with more power and less distortion.  New output stage, new power supplies.  new circuit boards, new backboards etc. simply made a retrofit option financially unworkable.

We will obviously do everything we can to provide an upgrade path for our customers as we move forward but without a hands on investigation of these new technologies it is impossible for me to comment on what can or can not be accomplished in retrofitting the SP1.7’s and SP2’s.

My sincere regrets that I can not give you a more definitive answer at this point.

james

[pantone172]

James, I completely understand and agree that you should investigate the technology first hand, before determining if the Sp1.7 can be upgraded. However, I think we need some kind of reassurance or commitment that you are going to do something for sp1.7 owners in the event we can’t upgrade. I feel your skating around the issue. Lexicon has been supporting their customers with either upgrades or trade-ins since the 90’s and continues to offer these options to their customers today, regardless of changes in technology.

Let’s say, hypothetically, the sp1.7 can’t be upgraded, would you still offer some kind of incentive for owners of the sp1.7 if we choose to purchase a new unit? 

thanks

[James Tanner]

Can you give me some details as to how the Lexicon upgrade system works?

james

[pantone172]

Under the program terms, the customer simply returns the unit in excellent condition to the dealer, with all packing materials, manual and remote included.  A credit is given toward the purchase price of Lexicon's new unit. The manufacturer sets the trade-in values, which are different for each model. Trade-ins are handled directly by dealers. The values assume the units are in good working order and have all packaging, accessories and manuals. Deductions can be made by the dealer for missing items.

[James Tanner]

So lets assume a product retails for $1000 - what would the trade in value be for the previous comparable unit?

james