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The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: Pez on 12 Oct 2013, 03:30 pm

Title: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Pez on 12 Oct 2013, 03:30 pm
Coming soonish... Tyson fell back asleep so now I'm waiting for his ass.  :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :duh:
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: liddown on 12 Oct 2013, 04:32 pm
I was pretty impressed with new Double Bass speakers.... Would be interested in your opinion...


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88347)
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 12 Oct 2013, 04:38 pm
Check out the Vapor room, if at all possible. I keep hearing his name.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: mamba315 on 12 Oct 2013, 04:54 pm
Is Audiokinesis on your list this year?
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: catastrofe on 12 Oct 2013, 05:04 pm
Check out the Vapor room, if at all possible. I keep hearing his name.

+1
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: seadogs1 on 12 Oct 2013, 05:13 pm
+1000 on the Vapor Room especially the Joule White!!!
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: EdRo on 12 Oct 2013, 05:51 pm
  :banana piano:NIMBUSNIMBUSNIMBUSNIMBUS :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 05:51 pm
PEZ: Sorry for the delay. We went over to the Hyatt and they have absolutely zero wireless reception there. We were told they basically built the conference room inside a faraday cage to force people who rent the rooms to use their data package upgrade. Total bullshit. Nice hotel, way better rooms but that kills it for us if they don't fix that problem in the future we literally cannot do live coverage.

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0226aba93436cb02b1aca2b2422c26fe_zpsaceba885.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/35149055ce4ff78bde6593749887fef5_zpscd00d923.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/a6dc9e44594ca07168772093a76e6a3f_zps42aca5a3.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/bb678940ec3031a2f8edb7b3d0ac962d_zps11fb22f3.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/50eed09e8aab54dc3eeca08170e07044_zpsaa3eba85.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/d522d6d1400a23e345d05b22b5b758ad_zpsa3754cc6.jpg)


Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Nimbus Side - Vapor room, first of day 2!!!  Had to take a nice  4 minute walk to get from the Marriot to the Hyatt, but it was worth it – these speakers are freaking BEAUTIFUL.  The 211 amps are also the best looking ones I’ve seen at the whole show.  And I LOVE these types of amps.  I have all SS in my system right now (First Watt F5’s, which I built myself), but I am having serious tube envy at this moment.

Oh, they Hyatt is MUCH nicer than the Marriot – it gets my vote for moving RMAF here next year.  Unfortunately there is zero cell reception or wifi here, so if the show were moved, then our ability to post live would be killed.  And that would be the end of RMAF coverage from us.  And that makes me sad.  So, yay Marriott.

And the Vapor room is HUGE, so these speakers and the system can really breath.

One thing – listening to the Nimbus, the room has a bass mode that is present in every seat I tried, except the very first row.  Luckily the sound from the first row is tremendous. 

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Giant soundstage and a very “visual” real presentation of the audio event.  Equal to the best at the show.

Handel Aria – Listening to this LOUD and even at high levels it maintains smooth coherency and musicality.  I usually hate, hate, hate ceramic cone based drivers.  Not here.  I’m not sure how they tamed the breakup I always hear with Accuton in other speakers, but they’ve done it here.

Mahler Symphony – IMO, this is the track where this system really shines.  Big powerful speakers in a room well treated with GIK Acoustics.  Oh, hahahaha, I just realized that some of the “art” I thought was just stupid signage is actually GIK Treatments (the Guitar silksreen is absolutely top quality).  Did I mention that EVERY vendor at RMAF should not only treat their rooms, but they really ought to use GIK.  Having art that doubles as badass room treatment is FAR better than the “carpet on a wall” aesthetic offered by most of the other guys.

Civil Wars – I think this might actually be the clearest, most transparent I’ve heard this track at the whole show.

Tom Waits – OK, the only downside here (and it is very slight), is it emphasizes the rough edges a bit here.  These are not warm speakers, so if that is your cuppa, look elsewhere.  On the other hand, much more impressive is their absolute, complete transparency into the recording.  If you want to hear EVERYTHING on your music collection, then this is it.

Hey, normally I don’t like dead neutral speakers (I like a slight warmth), but just like with the TAD room, the other things these speakers do is so impressive that it pretty overrides that for me. 


Jason’s Notes

Vapor audio room.
Wow the nimbus speakers are an incredible sight to behold. Very imposing and sexy as hell. The tube amps. Simply the sexiest I have seen at the show as well. I actually took a spec sheet! That never happens. :P

The Saint Saens, nice flowing sound with gorgeous seductive and sweet sounding despite the dissonance? Through it all the detail and transient attacks of the violin remain intact.

Handel piece- is tear jerking and emotionally charged. The dynamic detail shine through unapologetically.

Mahler is grandiose  as it should be. Brooding and menacing. The reason I mention that is because I think this is the first system where that actually sounded effortless!

TCW big presentation. These soundstage reminds me of a big horn setup. HUGE imaging MONSTER soundstage these scale very very effortlessly and then keep going well beyond what seems possible.

Walk Away very very big presentation. Pace, rhythm and groove. Again a larger than life soundstage and imaging.

I guess I just love the sound of a big triode presentation. It is impressive that these giant speakers are being driven by a 845 to levels that one would expect from a giant super expensive solid state amp, yet sounding like a SET very warm sounding without the bloat.  A well treated room at high volume levels, with SET. This is why I come to these shows. This is a top 4 contender at the show for sure. 

One last note this room is huge. There's another system in the back of the room that we are going to come back to tomorrow. The reason being Ryan informed us that they are trying to work out getting a different dac with the gear. We wanted to give this system a listen when it was ready to go.


Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 05:57 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/682ac7f1aafaedd42f4a5be101f69477_zps7eabe15f.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/c1522405180a33d664a9077cd7e1e3d6_zpsdaaf0837.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/91fa986ccfe66cc7631f554afb5aeb62_zpse8ba20bc.jpg)

Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Scaena room is up next.  Wow, 2 excellent rooms in a row – starting off day 2 right!  I’ve never heard Scaena before, but I know I love ribbon tweeters and I live line arrays.  I love the refined industrial space station aesthetic.  If ever there was a speaker that deserved to be put into a man cave, this is it.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Interesting – for such big speakers, they don’t oversize or blow up the image at all.  Just 2 musicians playing, right over there…

Handel Aria – Captures the beauty of the presentation nicely.

Mahler Symphony – Scales like crazy.  Yes, those huge ass subs really to matter.  They don’t overwhelm or thump, but when the music gets big, they fill the room.

Civil Wars – The chorus of this track says “I wish you were the one that got away”.  I’m starting to wish that this track would go away.  Plus it sounds really sterile on this system.

Tom Waits – Well, I was enjoying the track until the guy running the room came over and talked over the music, telling me how bad our music selection was.  Then I got a lecture on what dynamic range is, and how the Tom Waits portion of our selection was too compressed.  Dick.  Too bad, I was digging the room before that happened….


Jason’s Notes

Scaena room

Wow another way out there over the top design like the vapor room, but a completely different approach and execution.

Took photos and not in a sweet spot so I won't comment too much on Tyson's music selections. I will say in general it sounds different than the vapor room (duh) in the scene that it is more solid state sounding (yes I know it's an AR amp) that's not a bad thing it's just not the tubey deliciousness I prefer.

In the sweet spot now. TCW Ok now what I said before is more or less confirmed. This to my ears is what a lot of high end systems strive to sound like. Meaning very 'correct' not doing anything wrong, but simultaneously sounding a bit sterile, scrubbed down and a bit stripped of emotionality. For having 6 subs connected to 6 crown amps I find myself wondering where's the bass slam?

The Tom Waits track was... Uninspired nothing about it made me think this is something that makes me want to groove. The vendor in the room took the time to come up to us and let us know how bad this track was and not a good selection for judging a system like this. I disagree. I've heard this song sound AMAZING on systems that cost a fraction of this system. I just think this is the kind of system that kills music that isn't 100% fanatically mixed and recorded. No it's not the most dynamic recording but what's there is beautiful. Word to the wise vendors. Don't be a rude about people's music and try to explain away why it sounds bad. I can say from experience that it is not the music I selected that is causing the terrible sound. 
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: seadogs1 on 12 Oct 2013, 06:01 pm
As long as you're there how about the Vapor Joule White? Thanks! I'm trying to get a good take on it.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 06:11 pm
Wilson Room

OMG, the absolutely freaking best sound at the whole show.  No, check that, best sound of any show ever!  Best sound in the whole entire world, I mean entire universe!!!!!! 

But I have to warn you, only the cool kids are allowed access to this room.  Press badges seem to the be magical, golden key to unlock the doors to this mythical realm of audio bliss. 

No, not really.  We were actually turned away at the door and informed that "structured" presentations were being done and allowing us in 5 minutes after a demo started was on par with showing up late to the ballet.  NO WILSON FOR YOU!!!!!!!!  Wow, 2 dickish rooms in a row.  Amazing.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 06:40 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/9482597f3864199e83b209d6f260de85_zpsf5a2ab5f.jpg)

Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Got to hear the little guys today.  On the small system in the back of the room.  After the debacle of the Scaena room, it’s pretty awesome to come to a room run by genuinely good people. 

Didn’t get a chance to listen to our CD, but the music playing sounded very good.  Even though it was jazz.  And I hate jazz.  But these speakers made me a convert to loving jazz in the space of 5 minutes!  Well, no, not really.  But I will say that they sounded great.  Kept the major strengths of the Daedalus house sound – beautiful tonality and amazing musicality.  They are pushed too far up against the wall to make much comment on the soundstaging or stuff like that.



Jason's Notes

This is a classy look little system. Compared to the big system you aren't getting the bass depth but what is there is great very much the house sound of Daedalus. If setup in a proper space rather than tucked away in a corner most of these issues would probably disappear. Nice little setup.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Pez on 12 Oct 2013, 06:56 pm
I was pretty impressed with new Double Bass speakers.... Would be interested in your opinion...


(http://www.audiocirclexxxxx.com/image.php?id=88347)


On our list
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 07:22 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/e51132f06b37c609311115040401e67b_zpsea050cec.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/c206ffa43d966258c712f64935740791_zpsf64d1c21.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0115bcacc61599649d9346e4cff1d865_zps1a6569cc.jpg)



Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – DEQX room.  Nicely done up, curtains all around the front of the room creates a nice ambiance.  This system is of course the one that can do electronic crossovers, speaker correction, driver correction, room correction, and phase correction in real time.  I actually used to own one of these bad boys.  They work, and work well.  Switching between the processor and not the processor is pretty jaw dropping.  No CD player here, but some decent violin music going on.  Bluegrass.  Great room last year, great room again this year.  The beauty of the DEQX unit it really helps to overcome some of the inherent shittiness of the RMAF hotel rooms.  Oh, OK, I will just say it - the DEQX makes the YG Acoustic speakers sound good!  ANY product that can do that is a downright miraculous!


Jason's Notes

From the back row seat with someone sitting directly in front of me blocking the left speaker and someone sitting in front of the right speaker it sounds surprisingly good!

In sweet spot now: Switching between the deqx and without it it was pretty obvious when the deqx was in the mix. More coherent more lively and better lock on imaging and sound staging.  Wish we could listen to our own stuff because I'm liking what I've hearing
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 07:44 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/e7d87be34ec318168d99f5bf87fa60c2_zps46a881be.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/2e318c3f45f2b0d2a7c256522b2151cf_zps26a1a121.jpg)


Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Back in the Selah room today – they have the Ottavo’s set up.  And as cool as the curved line arrays are, the Ottavos are simply more beautiful to my eye.  The wood finish is amazing, among the very best at the show.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Hey, ceramic drivers that don’t drive me out of the room, yay!  Second time today – This track can just kill you ears on a lot of systems.  Really well done here.

Handel Aria – Sounds excellent.  On a couple of the notes, the room gets overloaded, but a bit of room treatment would certainly clean that up very nicely.

Mahler Symphony – I don’t know how they do it, but they scale the music to a larger dimension than the room itself.  That is tres coolio. 

Civil Wars – Jason’s music sounds good.  Interesting, when I move out of the sweet spot, the sound quality does not drop off all that much.  These speakers sound better across a larger listening area than anything else I’ve heard at the show. 

Tom Waits – Oh yeah, junkyard dog mean.  Love it.  Sounds great even off axis.  Sound is MUCH better today than yesterday.  Not sure if it’s the speaker change, or the fact that we’re actually listening to an actual CD instead of Spotify :P  Actually, I’ve been in the Selah room many times now, and I think this year is their best overall sound. 

Jason's Notes

As I'm sure Tyson has already posted we were here yesterday but with the other curved back speakers. (Sorry I'm terrible about remembering the infinite names assigned to speakers) I will say this. They are able to play our music! Right off the bat I am like the fuller sound of these. Way more refined IMO.

A little overblown on the Handel but room treatment would solve this likely of which there is none. Imaging and sound-staging is pretty damn good!

The Mahler is pretty good as well! Again the room is hurting this system due to the overhang and lack of dynamic control.

One who got away. Very very good imaging again. Very 3d. This is one of those setups that I can tell is excellent, but the lack of treatment underlines how important it is to have that at these shows it could be soooo much better

Waits has good pace, but likes a little of that believability that really gets my tow tapping.

Overall way better than yesterday. Just need treatments.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: hifial on 12 Oct 2013, 07:46 pm
Tyson and Pez. Thank you for all your efforts and great coverage of the RMAF for all of us not able to make it.

If you can I would love to hear your feedback on a few rooms.

The Grimm Audio room has new to the US market their all in one speaker, power amp and DSP system (it even comes with the cabling). It is an all new design that uses the Hypex Ncore amps and Grimm's Studio DSP. It is very well regarded in other parts of the world.

The exaSound room and their DAC's.

The Merrill Audio room with the TAD E-1 speakers.

I know there is one more but I can not think of it right now.

Again thank you for all your efforts.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 08:01 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/9086bbc66eff1bcd8c0ddb975b59acdb_zpse48e2aad.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/89b72e6170482496cacb4452fed2b2d0_zpsa716f4f0.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/a794c086c84eb7238ae2d23e58c2745c_zpsc5255084.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/b85af3d6c23e7b76bc61b5a9db8542d8_zps65321f78.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/11f28027aa936cf6867511c9d606c1f3_zps7ce07f5c.jpg)


Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Every year that Fritz makes it to RMAF, we love his room.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – From the middle seat the bass sounds a bit hollow.  Moving to the front row now.  Sounds much better.  That’s the thing with these rooms – you really should listen to the system from at least a couple of different seats.  Jason and I do that, in every room. 

Handel Aria – Wow, just drips with emotion and beauty.  Best I have heard this track on any system in the entire show.  Really beautiful.

Mahler Symphony – Great tonality on that opening horn call.  Scales surprisingly well, if not at the same level as some of the giant speakers.  But still quite respectable.  Really nice depth of soundstage – the cellos are coming in from way back.

Civil Wars – The LS 7/R’s (I have to have a talk with Fritz about his choice in speaker names….) these are so inherently beautiful that it actually allows me to enjoy this track.  If you are interested in actually listening to MUSIC, then these are the speakers for you.  No muss, no fuss, just quietly do their thing superlatively.

Tom Waits – What a nice, big, fat sound.  Not fat like the Walmart shoppers, but fat like a juicy tube amp.  And that’s being driven by a super tiny little integrated amp.  Not THAT’s impressive.  Great room, as always.


Jason's Notes

Always a great room to come to and this year is no exception. The sign on the door got a chuckle from me. The sound is sweet and easy going.

The Saens was great but lacked the bite that I know is there from my experience in the other rooms. Yet all the other refinement was present.

Handel soulful and true to the emotion of the performance. But in a sort of editorialized way. Some of the detail just not as forward. Still there, but more laid back.

Mahler

TCW wow laid back and very warm sounding. Great body to vocals and instruments. Lyrics 'I wish I'd never, ever seen your face' remind me of Tyson for some reason. Kick drum is great on this system.

Tom Waits is a bit shouty and yet not edgy enough in this system. Probably due to lack of treatment again. Though this is the first time it's really been a huge issue with what I'm hearing. Knowing that this system probably doesn't less than 1/10th of the average system cost I think you seriously should check it out.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 08:23 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/200337c91286db77e9694ae02bae3f49_zpsf9a7059c.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/19cd4a11fe8f088d900d9fac0bb1dcf3_zps01d49e16.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/28469b2258a9adcc9d297fb5dbce877c_zpsfadfec91.jpg)



Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – The shocker room from last year is back again.  Last year it was a single midrange/high frequency widebander with a bass helper.  Did I mention that I hate widebanders?  And I hate metal drivers even more.  I was ready to literally bolt for the door last year.  And then I listened.  And then I named the room best in show for that year.  So much for preconceptions.  (I also found out later that the drivers are not actually metal, so there).

This year they have a real tweeter in there!  One thing – no room treatments ☹  I am always a bit sad when really good systems are in rooms with no treatment.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Sparklingly beautiful.  Not like a chocolate mousse, more like a effervescent champagne.  It is light, not in the sense of brightness, but in the sense of being the opposite of heavy.

Handel Aria – Surprising that this track does not overload the room, considering the lack of treatment.  But sure enough,  no overload.  I’m not sure how that is physically possible, but there it is.

Mahler Symphony – The one track they fall down a little bit is the Mahler.  They just don’t scale the massive dynamics of this track.  On a positive note, they don’t break up or cause any other nasties.  They just compress the music a little bit.

Civil Wars – Laid back and effortless.  You’d think a speaker with shiny drivers would be bright and upfront, but not hear.  Just an easy musicality.

Tom Waits – His voice sounds like it just in the room with you.  These speakers are amazing for vocals, very, very coherent.  Another great year for Zellaton.  It’s rare that Jason and I add any new vendors to our “must hear” list every year, but these guys have done it.


Jason’s Notes

Zellaton CH room was the one that surprised us last year with their out of this world design that actually works very very well. This year the house sound is back again and despite having 0 room treatment it sounds pretty damn phenomenal. We are listening to knopfer and Atkins and it sounds so easy going yet refined like you wouldn't believe!

Saens beautiful most natural violin so easily presented I just want to listen and not type. 

Handel another heartbreaker. Even off to the side these things image.

Mahler did it again was just listening and forgot to type. Off from center these have the best non sweet spot sound I have heard at the show period.

In the sweet spot the civil wars images even better! Great presentation, very emotional and never overblown despite lack of treatment. This is the kind of room I could easily spend several hours in.

Tom Waits gritty and powerful without sounding harsh. The double bass sounds pretty awesome on this system without being over bearing. How they pull off such balance too to bottom without an ounce of room treatment in beyond my understanding. I just can't quite wrap my head around that. 
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 09:03 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/ca93762018bfb5965dc355149cbfd3f6_zps247b3f36.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/5aeb119ee2d3ccaa7a26e43f0417d8db_zpse3773d5c.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/5c19cfef11c9dbc465bc01b812bf51ba_zpscfc222a7.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/4c0baf355d1d4b0fa6cceaeac74476e2_zps7c5e3d78.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/67a9795b59a7c0a0c9d573a93dcce0c1_zpsf0d51fa5.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/4a90e10adb28998db71ec960fd0cbe75_zps9f9319f0.jpg)



Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – The MA Recordings room is badass every year.  This year, like last year, they have all headphones setup in the room.  Except this year is even MORE headphones.  And even better amps.  I’m listening to Beethoven’s violin concerto on the Abyss headphones and the Woo 234 monoblocks.  Sounds pretty good during the orchestral introduction.  But when the violin comes in, it just melts me with emotion. 

Now listening to Stax headphones via the Woo Audio WES.  Same Beethoven track.  The orchestral parts sound better than on the 234’s and Abyss.  With the Stax, the violin sounds very good, but doesn’t melt me like the other setup.

Great room again this year, tons of great music and everyone should drop by here.


Jason’s Notes

What can I say about the MA recordings room that I don't say year after year? Great setup. A lot of fun stuff to look at and or buy and this year Woo audio is sharing the room which means out of this world headphones and headphone amps. My favorite was the one with the Stax headphones. Wow could that system sing! Very dynamic too. Great room as usual.

Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2013, 09:11 pm
Pez: So that's the end of our scheduled rooms. We are going to sort of walk around and do our own thing now. Nt sure where we will start but right now we are taking a break for a late lunch.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: WGH on 12 Oct 2013, 09:30 pm
Great reporting guys! Glad you covered Fritz, his room is always one of my faves. I'm curious what that madman Klaus of Odyssey is showing this year. A few years ago his Klismet speaker were great, the biggest sounding "monitor" speaker I have ever heard.

Wayne
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: OzarkTom on 12 Oct 2013, 09:40 pm
Steve Guttenberg of Chesky Records  told Jim Vaughn that he had the best sound of any that he has ever  heard at the shows. Those plasma drivers is probably the main reason for Steve's comment.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Pez on 12 Oct 2013, 10:10 pm
We might go visit it. A lot going on but maybe.

We are going to see Klaus on Sunday.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: rbbert on 12 Oct 2013, 10:20 pm
So the Zellaton room was playing CDs this year!  Excellent!
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: rajacat on 12 Oct 2013, 10:45 pm
Has anybody heard the Audio Kinesis room?
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: OzarkTom on 12 Oct 2013, 10:48 pm
So the Zellaton room was playing CDs this year!  Excellent!

Zellatons are hard to beat, mine sure has me spoiled.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Pez on 12 Oct 2013, 11:34 pm
Has anybody heard the Audio Kinesis room?

Tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: seadogs1 on 12 Oct 2013, 11:53 pm
How about the Vapor Audio Joule Whites tomorrow?
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: rbbert on 12 Oct 2013, 11:56 pm
How about the Vapor Audio Joule Whites tomorrow?

Their post about Vapor Audio stated their intention to visit that system tomorrow?
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: jhm731 on 13 Oct 2013, 12:11 am
Wilson Room

OMG, the absolutely freaking best sound at the whole show.  No, check that, best sound of any show ever!  Best sound in the whole entire world, I mean entire universe!!!!!! 

But I have to warn you, only the cool kids are allowed access to this room.  Press badges seem to the be magical, golden key to unlock the doors to this mythical realm of audio bliss. 

No, not really.  We were actually turned away at the door and informed that "structured" presentations were being done and allowing us in 5 minutes after a demo started was on par with showing up late to the ballet.  NO WILSON FOR YOU!!!!!!!!  Wow, 2 dickish rooms in a row.  Amazing.

The WA Room:

(https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1384237_10152255934987656_999161560_n.jpg)

Looks like Dave Wilson was packing them in:

(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1385541_10152256499987656_1476156348_n.jpg)
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: FullRangeMan on 13 Oct 2013, 12:21 am
The WA Room:

(https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1384237_10152255934987656_999161560_n.jpg)

Looks like Dave Wilson was packing them in:

(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1385541_10152256499987656_1476156348_n.jpg)
One of the ugliest speaker I have seen.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: seadogs1 on 13 Oct 2013, 12:40 am
Thanks rbbert! I don't know how I missed that. Guys you are doing a GREAT job!
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: pansixt on 13 Oct 2013, 12:48 am
Turn around room from last year Huh?  Wiiillsonnnn? Good to know they sounded good. Wells Fargo ATM won't give me enough
bank roll to flash to get in. Maybe my old National Press Club Member card will work.

But wait, We have the two most objective and discerning folks to gain entry for us.... Ah shit, no substitute for the hands (ears on) on.

Thanks a million T and P
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: J-Pak on 13 Oct 2013, 01:16 am
A couple of my friends said the High Water Sound room sounds really good; speakers are Cessaro horns, one of their smaller models.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: DaveC113 on 13 Oct 2013, 01:50 am
Has anybody heard the Audio Kinesis room?

Yes. I thought it was excellent...it's laid back, very easy to listen to but isn't lacking detail either. I prefer a more forward, somewhat brighter sound. I especially liked the depth of the sound stage and it's ability to resolve a loud, complicated track of Bela Fleck playing live that many systems fail at. There were some minor bass issues in the room but not horrible.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Tyson on 13 Oct 2013, 05:16 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/7bf8e688f072aaa29ca29ff8375b5458_zps31046618.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/be32c426b8f95b5030afe487ba918e7a_zpsb9d04081.jpg)

Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Canjam!  Did you know that Canjam is the single largest headphone expo in the world?  That’s right, and it happens right here in Denver every year.  It has grown from a few vendors scattered about that huge event center, to being completely packed this year.  And it was busy, the most foot traffic I’ve seen of anyplace in the show.  And, not just a bunch of old people either.  Actual young people were there!  Lots of them, too.  People say that our hobby is dying out, but it’s not true – the audiophiles of the next generation are cutting their teeth on headphones.  And, because they are younger, and digitally based with their music, and it’s actually a real growth market, this area has the one thing you don’t really see at the rest of the show – true innovation.


Jason’s Notes

So CanJam is crazy big these days. Amazingly big. It's getting to the point that the vendors are way too close together and it's crowded. Used to be you could see it all in a matter of a few hours now it's so overwhelming we actually sorta just made a b-line to the iFi table as we had heard from various people that we have to go check them out.

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0fdb4eedb196d3c8aac2619e4839278d_zpsb3b996e2.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/39e6842a9399dd09a7ece419e95f883e_zps737cf4e4.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/6ddea8db9467acfbf9a7a8c75ad5d616_zps0b995147.jpg)

Tyson's Notes

Speaking of  innovation– we did hit the iFi booth.  It is run by the same guys that did the Avatar room last year.  This year they have gone small.  Very, very small.  They have a full line of iFi stuff based on some pretty cool trickle down technology.  The coolest part is that it’s mainly PC audio focused, and it sounds seriously good.  The Audeze headphones that they had set up are a model I’ve heard several times in several different setups.  It always sounded good, but kind of mediocre in the past.  Which is what I was expecting here.  Queue up Michael Jackson and I swear to God that it’s the best I have EVER heard that album sound.  Who knew that the Audeze’s were world class headphones?  Guess they just needed the right front end gear to really shine.  Oh, and for you bargain shoppers, these things are cheap.  Lets put it this way, I have never bought any gear from any manufacturer at RMAF, ever.  That changed this year – I walked away from the iFi booth with not one, but 2 new boxes – a USB-SPDIF converter, and a dual run USB cable. 

Jason’s Notes

Sure enough iFi was an amazing experience. A lot of great gear all specifically designed for computer audio and mobile phone/tablet audio. Great looking gear and that mini system..... Wow el84 amplication, Bluetooth this and that, the thing is a perfect fusion of old school with a new thang. We didn't get a chance to listen to it as there is some sort of CanJam rule against playing sound through speakers, but it looks amazing none the less.

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/df779679f210d957bac752abbc429148_zps5a24bd53.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/a976f34566bc7cdcfa7d525f49106843_zps80ae1556.jpg)

We did walk around and listen to a couple of other booths, and  there were some very cool art-deco headphone stands with an integrated amp, dac, and volume control built in, but they were in use and we didn’t get to listen.  But it was very, very, very cool, and one of the most innovative products at the whole show. 


Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: standub on 13 Oct 2013, 06:11 pm
Glad to see I was the only one that really dig the ifi stuff.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: DTB300 on 13 Oct 2013, 07:57 pm
The iFi USB Power is also another excellent product of theirs...
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: a.wayne on 13 Oct 2013, 08:09 pm
Yes. I thought it was excellent...it's laid back, very easy to listen to but isn't lacking detail either. I prefer a more forward, somewhat brighter sound. I especially liked the depth of the sound stage and it's ability to resolve a loud, complicated track of Bela Fleck playing live that many systems fail at. There were some minor bass issues in the room but not horrible.

Ok, So it was avg .....
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: TF1216 on 13 Oct 2013, 11:47 pm
Any more about CanJam gents'?  I would love to hear your takes on the new Audeze headphones and JH Audio's Roxanne.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: jtwrace on 13 Oct 2013, 11:52 pm
JH Audio's Roxanne.
Very good.  Worth the $1600 price tag for general use?  I don't think so unless money is no object.  My Shure IEM with custom ear molds still sound pretty darn good.  In fact when I put them on during the flight home I didn't miss anything from the Roxanne's.  And I mean nothing
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: TF1216 on 14 Oct 2013, 12:12 am
Thanks for the comments jtwrace.  I'm a fan of hearing honest words about the largest players in their respective arenas.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: audioengr on 14 Oct 2013, 04:57 pm
Jason - the tube amps that are driving the Nimbus are 805 tubes, not 845.  More power.  These are 40W single-ended.

I ordered pair myself, as well as the Nimbus white to go with it.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio



PEZ: Sorry for the delay. We went over to the Hyatt and they have absolutely zero wireless reception there. We were told they basically built the conference room inside a faraday cage to force people who rent the rooms to use their data package upgrade. Total bullshit. Nice hotel, way better rooms but that kills it for us if they don't fix that problem in the future we literally cannot do live coverage.

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0226aba93436cb02b1aca2b2422c26fe_zpsaceba885.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/35149055ce4ff78bde6593749887fef5_zpscd00d923.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/a6dc9e44594ca07168772093a76e6a3f_zps42aca5a3.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/bb678940ec3031a2f8edb7b3d0ac962d_zps11fb22f3.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/50eed09e8aab54dc3eeca08170e07044_zpsaa3eba85.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/d522d6d1400a23e345d05b22b5b758ad_zpsa3754cc6.jpg)


Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Nimbus Side - Vapor room, first of day 2!!!  Had to take a nice  4 minute walk to get from the Marriot to the Hyatt, but it was worth it – these speakers are freaking BEAUTIFUL.  The 211 amps are also the best looking ones I’ve seen at the whole show.  And I LOVE these types of amps.  I have all SS in my system right now (First Watt F5’s, which I built myself), but I am having serious tube envy at this moment.

Oh, they Hyatt is MUCH nicer than the Marriot – it gets my vote for moving RMAF here next year.  Unfortunately there is zero cell reception or wifi here, so if the show were moved, then our ability to post live would be killed.  And that would be the end of RMAF coverage from us.  And that makes me sad.  So, yay Marriott.

And the Vapor room is HUGE, so these speakers and the system can really breath.

One thing – listening to the Nimbus, the room has a bass mode that is present in every seat I tried, except the very first row.  Luckily the sound from the first row is tremendous. 

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Giant soundstage and a very “visual” real presentation of the audio event.  Equal to the best at the show.

Handel Aria – Listening to this LOUD and even at high levels it maintains smooth coherency and musicality.  I usually hate, hate, hate ceramic cone based drivers.  Not here.  I’m not sure how they tamed the breakup I always hear with Accuton in other speakers, but they’ve done it here.

Mahler Symphony – IMO, this is the track where this system really shines.  Big powerful speakers in a room well treated with GIK Acoustics.  Oh, hahahaha, I just realized that some of the “art” I thought was just stupid signage is actually GIK Treatments (the Guitar silksreen is absolutely top quality).  Did I mention that EVERY vendor at RMAF should not only treat their rooms, but they really ought to use GIK.  Having art that doubles as badass room treatment is FAR better than the “carpet on a wall” aesthetic offered by most of the other guys.

Civil Wars – I think this might actually be the clearest, most transparent I’ve heard this track at the whole show.

Tom Waits – OK, the only downside here (and it is very slight), is it emphasizes the rough edges a bit here.  These are not warm speakers, so if that is your cuppa, look elsewhere.  On the other hand, much more impressive is their absolute, complete transparency into the recording.  If you want to hear EVERYTHING on your music collection, then this is it.

Hey, normally I don’t like dead neutral speakers (I like a slight warmth), but just like with the TAD room, the other things these speakers do is so impressive that it pretty overrides that for me. 


Jason’s Notes

Vapor audio room.
Wow the nimbus speakers are an incredible sight to behold. Very imposing and sexy as hell. The tube amps. Simply the sexiest I have seen at the show as well. I actually took a spec sheet! That never happens. :P

The Saint Saens, nice flowing sound with gorgeous seductive and sweet sounding despite the dissonance? Through it all the detail and transient attacks of the violin remain intact.

Handel piece- is tear jerking and emotionally charged. The dynamic detail shine through unapologetically.

Mahler is grandiose  as it should be. Brooding and menacing. The reason I mention that is because I think this is the first system where that actually sounded effortless!

TCW big presentation. These soundstage reminds me of a big horn setup. HUGE imaging MONSTER soundstage these scale very very effortlessly and then keep going well beyond what seems possible.

Walk Away very very big presentation. Pace, rhythm and groove. Again a larger than life soundstage and imaging.

I guess I just love the sound of a big triode presentation. It is impressive that these giant speakers are being driven by a 845 to levels that one would expect from a giant super expensive solid state amp, yet sounding like a SET very warm sounding without the bloat.  A well treated room at high volume levels, with SET. This is why I come to these shows. This is a top 4 contender at the show for sure. 

One last note this room is huge. There's another system in the back of the room that we are going to come back to tomorrow. The reason being Ryan informed us that they are trying to work out getting a different dac with the gear. We wanted to give this system a listen when it was ready to go.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: BobM on 14 Oct 2013, 05:58 pm
Sorry guys, but why do you need to quote everything, including pictures, inyour replies? Please edit what you quote so we know what is pertinant to your issue, and post your question outside of the quoted text so we know what you are asking and it is not lost inside the shaded part.

Sorry - just a personal rant.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Don_S on 14 Oct 2013, 06:12 pm
Me too = +1

Sorry guys, but why do you need to quote everything, including pictures, inyour replies? Please edit what you quote so we know what is pertinant to your issue, and post your question outside of the quoted text so we know what you are asking and it is not lost inside the shaded part.

Sorry - just a personal rant.
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Turk on 14 Oct 2013, 06:27 pm
I spent some time in the Vapor room and both speakers particularly the Joule Whites were impressive in many ways, the Nimbus threw an enormous soundstage, although I preferred the overall balance of the Joule White.  Excellent detail, good overall tonal balance, with the exception noted below for the Accuton drivers.

Nimbus did suffer from room boom.  Unlike Tyson and Pez, I still heard a tiny bit of harshness with the Accutons as the music was fairly loud.  Admittedly as one grows older, hi frequencies are missing and not heard.  Likewise, the upper midrange becomes very sensitive, at least with me.  I am guessing for 85% of the listeners the Accutons were spot on.  Exceptional dynamics and without the room mode I expect the Nimbus are incredible in integrating the large woofer.   No small feat.

I would like to hear the Blacks, because for the money, theses were really exceptional in many ways, even gave me a bit of an urge to shop.  I hope next year Vapor can haul in a pair of Black Nimbus or Joules.

I am curious if this aging phenomenon I experience was noticed by anyone else listening in this room?
Title: Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
Post by: Rick Craig on 14 Oct 2013, 11:22 pm
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/e7d87be34ec318168d99f5bf87fa60c2_zps46a881be.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/2e318c3f45f2b0d2a7c256522b2151cf_zps26a1a121.jpg)


Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Back in the Selah room today – they have the Ottavo’s set up.  And as cool as the curved line arrays are, the Ottavos are simply more beautiful to my eye.  The wood finish is amazing, among the very best at the show.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Hey, ceramic drivers that don’t drive me out of the room, yay!  Second time today – This track can just kill you ears on a lot of systems.  Really well done here.

Handel Aria – Sounds excellent.  On a couple of the notes, the room gets overloaded, but a bit of room treatment would certainly clean that up very nicely.

Mahler Symphony – I don’t know how they do it, but they scale the music to a larger dimension than the room itself.  That is tres coolio. 

Civil Wars – Jason’s music sounds good.  Interesting, when I move out of the sweet spot, the sound quality does not drop off all that much.  These speakers sound better across a larger listening area than anything else I’ve heard at the show. 

Tom Waits – Oh yeah, junkyard dog mean.  Love it.  Sounds great even off axis.  Sound is MUCH better today than yesterday.  Not sure if it’s the speaker change, or the fact that we’re actually listening to an actual CD instead of Spotify :P  Actually, I’ve been in the Selah room many times now, and I think this year is their best overall sound. 

Jason's Notes

As I'm sure Tyson has already posted we were here yesterday but with the other curved back speakers. (Sorry I'm terrible about remembering the infinite names assigned to speakers) I will say this. They are able to play our music! Right off the bat I am like the fuller sound of these. Way more refined IMO.

A little overblown on the Handel but room treatment would solve this likely of which there is none. Imaging and sound-staging is pretty damn good!

The Mahler is pretty good as well! Again the room is hurting this system due to the overhang and lack of dynamic control.

One who got away. Very very good imaging again. Very 3d. This is one of those setups that I can tell is excellent, but the lack of treatment underlines how important it is to have that at these shows it could be soooo much better

Waits has good pace, but likes a little of that believability that really gets my tow tapping.

Overall way better than yesterday. Just need treatments.

Thanks to you guys for coming by to visit our room. Ryan had requested some room treatment from suppliers but they couldn't provide  them - but no excuses - I've been to the RMAF several times so I knew you would ding us for that  :lol: