[wilsynet]

This topic / thread is for RClark, Danny, JWTrace, etc.

Please post your thoughts here rather than hijack other topics.

[NeilT]

Sorry

[wilsynet]

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103725.0

[Danny Richie]

So the thread got a little off track. It happens sometimes. You guys made too much of it.

I tried to encourage the GR Research questions be posted in my circle by stating:

Sorry guys. I don't know when to quit answering questions. If you guys have any more GR Research related question please post them in my circle.

We can talk about your favorite cost no object mini-monitor here too if you like.

I don't mind if threads in my circle get a little off track. Sometimes they grow into something completely different and we all learn something new along the way.

[Rclark]

I dont understand what everyone was so upset about. Oh well.

[HT cOz]

Well Sweet now that I have full license here is what I really think: Vapor and GR kick some booty

[tabrink]

I get sent to time out a lot.. AND with no good night snack. 
I an a big fan of the Vapor line after RMAF. I have N3  in my library breaking in nice!
OP just bitch slapped ya brother!
Rclark enhance your calm..I mean really who cares!
This is fun!
 

[Rclark]

Cool as a cucumber baby 

[lord dubious]

Hi All
Just read the quarantined thread and could not figure out what the fuss was about.  Were the offending posts deleted?  If so, who did this and were the posts so offensive that censorship was necessary?  Hoping someone can explain what is going on.
Thanks

[srb]

Just read the quarantined thread and could not figure out what the fuss was about.  Were the offending posts deleted?  If so, who did this and were the posts so offensive that censorship was necessary?  Hoping someone can explain what is going on.

Unless some special steps are taken, I believe most deleted posts go to the Intergalactic Wastebin instead of disappearing completely.  They weren't sent there because they were offensive, but because a few manufacturers talked about their own products which spawned further discussion about them, and some felt the topic was being derailed.  You can see the posts here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103726.0
 
As to why this particular topic exists, apparently the OP deuptized himself, created a new sarcastically titled topic in the GR Research circle and called out those individuals (and their ilk) "Who Can't Otherwise Help Themselves".
 
When the moderators feel lines have been crossed, they can warn and move posts, if needed (which they did).  I don't think every time a topic veers off course it's necessary to create a special room for 'bad' boys (or girls) to be dispatched to.
 
Steve

[wilsynet]

As to why this particular topic exists, apparently the OP deuptized himself, created a new sarcastically titled topic in the GR Research circle and called out those individuals (and their ilk) "Who Can't Otherwise Help Themselves".

I chuckled as I created the new topic here.  It almost certainly sounded more acerbic than I was feeling inside.  Which was admittedly a bit frustrated.  But not actually a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[lord dubious]

Unless some special steps are taken, ...
 
Steve

Thanks Steve

[Danny Richie]

So, do you guys really want to explore the high end mini monitor market? What does it take to go to the top level of mini monitors? Or what about the super expensive monitors makes them super expensive?

[SoCalWJS]

An interesting discussion. I would guess that there are so many ways of looking at it that it's next to impossible to get more than a couple of people to agree on whatever solution is presented.

Two way design featuring: The "finest tweeter", the "finest woofer", absulutely highest quality crossover parts and design, optimal cabinet that takes time alignment into considearation. Not sure on the binding post. Internal high quality wire. No rez or equivalent on the inside of the cabinet. xcellent quality control on each component. Designed for phase coherency. Solid wood for the enclosure.

Let's see; who determines what is "best" for any of this? What kind of frequency response on the bottom end is acceptable in a mini monitor? What is the best size for a mini monitor? A litltle bit bigger for more bottom end? A bit smaller for more placement ease? Material for each driver? Which caps/coil etc. is best for the crossover? Substrate material? Near-field design consideration? - opens up even more issues.

The list is long and open to different opinion at every step. Several manufacturers already claim to have the best drivers - there is no absolute concensus (contrary to the earlier discussion which gave that distinction to the RAAL)

[corndog71]

So, do you guys really want to explore the high end mini monitor market? What does it take to go to the top level of mini monitors? Or what about the super expensive monitors makes them super expensive?

I have so much to learn.

[Jonathon Janusz]

Although it took an odd road to get here. . . (and if we really do get into a discussion on high-end mini monitors, maybe a thread title change is in order?)

Seeing as I'm potentially very interested in the idea of top-shelf small speakers, maybe the same question from a different angle, keeping on-topic and maybe a bit focused in Danny's circle:

Take the N2X.  Do it all-in: 

Sonicaps/platinums (or even more exotic if Danny were to have an all but unlimited budget to pick from and would go another direction)

stacked laminated cabinets with either isolated crossover chambers or separate external crossovers, fully lined in no-rez with 2" thick solid wood baffles

premium exotic veneer (or not if you're going for the stacked look) with a full mirror gloss piano finish by hand

only the best for internal wire and tube connectors (I know boutique binding posts would be more high-end jewelry to fawn over in a professional review, but we all know Danny's opinion on these, and we are talking about top shelf performance as well as build quality)

hand measured and individually matched values for drivers and crossover parts

Just to keep this an apples to apples comparison, professionally built out by someone like Ruben, Randall, Peter, Ron. . . and sold through a dealer network to really call it a "production" model speaker.

Then we need to give it a price of $$$$.  I have no idea what the math would really be, but just to hang in this kind of company, let's just say it needs to sit somewhere comfortably in four figures, if not sneaking up on five.


Now, the question asked that started this/the original thread, asked the other way, what in particular would cause the speaker described above NOT to hang in the same company as the other ultra high end speakers discussed?

[srb]

Now, the question asked that started this/the original thread, asked the other way, what in particular would cause the speaker described above NOT to hang in the same company as the other ultra high end speakers discussed?

The drivers.
 
Steve

[Jonathon Janusz]

The drivers.
 
Steve

Okay. . . is that because of engineering/performance?  "the name"/brand perceived value?  price/marketing of the drivers?

Another way:  If BG made a marginally "better" tweeter (basically the same behind the magic curtain) made of "unobtainium" and charged 10x what they do, and Danny all along would have marketed the woofers as "custom designed of purpose-engineered materials for the pinnacle of blah, blah, blah. . ." and never had the price per driver go below $$$ (again, the same item we have now behind the magic curtain), would the speaker all of a sudden get into the party, or would the market of folks shopping in these circles call B.S. and the speaker reviewed poorly as "dressing up a pig" so to speak?

Please note, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand a bit a market I may not be in right now, but wouldn't mind working toward some day.

Thanks!

[saisunil]

I had neos at my place - I liked them, but would like more resolution, more finesse and more bass ... also I think I am used to fabric dome tweeter ...

I would really like a purpose built pair of ref monitors with matching pair of 8" subs voiced as such ... for music (would buy it for home theater but use it for music    )

I really like the looks, specs and what I read about Vapor audio ...
Now that looks like a ref speaker 

[Jonathon Janusz]

. . . and Danny, I'm glad/interested/intrigued to see you observing this conversation.  It strikes me as interesting in that you right now are in the final stages of wrapping up what look to be a group of new and very high-end designed/engineered drivers, and are probably right now just sorting out final pricing. . .

If it seems the pulse of the industry really answers that what you're cooking up doesn't get the recognition/market/mindshare it could simply because the industry perceives it as "cheap", regardless of the realities (I use the term VERY subjectively here - I really don't want to pick a fight on this one) of the situation, it would appear the answer to the equation (read: GR-Research becoming a bigger/better/more profitable venture) is to have to make a very hard choice as to whether or not to just price stuff out of the stratosphere, let the masses marvel at the unobtainable at the top of the mountain, and (maybe if it is even worthwhile to do so) keep trucking along on the "best bang for the buck" side of the house almost as a side project to the new bread and butter. . . ?

Sorry if I'm going a little off on a tangent.  The business of business is something that has always interested me.

Cheers all!