Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"

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Bill Thomas

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #40 on: 17 Mar 2009, 08:44 pm »
Tuesday - March 17th, 2009 - "The Beginning of Our Second Dose of Fine Tuning."

     Happy St. Patrick's Day!  This will be a very quick note.  (I'm suffering from a SEVERE case of the flu!)  But I wanted to let you know we have resolved our "can capacitor problem" thanks to the excellent artwork provided by Sheldon Stokes.  Thank you VERY much Sheldon!  Sheldon has generously offered to make artwork available to ANYONE wanting to replace the can capacitor in the FM-3, as well as artwork for replacement PEC modules.  Check out the artwork for yourself at: http://www.quadesl.com/pdf/fm3_capboard.pdf.  Sheldon has also generously provided artwork for replacement capacitor boards for the SCA-35 and the PAS series of preamps.  (We'll show you how they turned out in a later project!)

     Believe it or not, YOU can make your own Printed Circuit boards with a minimum of effort!  The necessary supplies are available from Datak.  Using Datak's pre-sensitized circuit boards and Sheldon's artwork (along with a laser printer, a suitable light source and three mylar sheets), you can turn out circuit boards that will rival professionally produced circuit boards!  As it turns out, Datak's 6" by 6" sensitized board will allow you to make one cap board for the FM-3, one for the SCA-35, one for the PAS preamp and three PEC module circuit boards.  It's a tight fit, but there's *just* enough room to make them all with very little waste.

     I won't go into the actual process of making the boards yet.  (My camera wasn't available when these were produced), but I WILL show you the entire process when I churn out the next set of boards.  Just realize that the process isn't *that* difficult - just a bit time-consuming.  Along with the pre-sensitized circuit boards, you will need the accompanying developing solution and a supply of Ferric Chloride etching solution.  Be aware that Ferric Chloride is pretty nasty stuff.  It will stain skin and should NEVER be poured down the drain!  Treat it with the same care you would use dealing with Muriatic Acid.  (It's not anywhere NEAR as volatile as Muriatic Acid, but if you use similar handling precautions, you'll avoid any problems.)

     In case you think I'm an "old hand" at turning out printed circuit boards, think again!  This was my first attempt using the Datak system.  (You'll see the good, the bad and the ugly in these boards.)  The FM-3 cap board turned out beautifully!  (beginner's luck!)  The PAS preamp board turned out *ok* and the SCA-35 board suffered from mis-registration problems.  It's still workable, but it isn't quite as "neat" as the FM-3 board.

     We'll have pictures of the FM-3 board coming up in our next installment.  Our next installment will be posted as soon as I feel a little better.  Stay tuned!

Sincerely,

Bill Thomas

Bill Thomas

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #41 on: 20 Mar 2009, 07:45 am »
March 20th, 2009 - Update:  "A GOOD Foundation!"

     Electronic devices MUST be built on a firm foundation.  That means, a good, SOLID Power Supply!  In the case of the FM-3 tuner, this means a good rectifier tube and a quad capacitor that is in EXCELLENT condition!  The trouble is, after 40 or more years, almost any can-type capacitor is bound to be near death!  If it doesn't cause hum yet, it probably will soon!  Unfortunately, at present, we don't have many options when it comes to replacement time.  There is no can-type capacitor currently produced in the United States that will fit inside the FM-3 case.  There IS a suitable can-type capacitor available from Germany called an "Authenticap" (available from www.askjanfirst.com), but at approximately $57.00, it's a pretty pricey proposition!  The lack of available space inside the FM-3 means you probably won't have much luck mounting extra terminal strips in order to use discrete capacitors.  But all is not lost.

     As we mentioned in our previous update, Sheldon Stokes has generously provided the necessary artwork that will allow us to manufacture our own printed circuit board that will allow the use of discrete capacitors.  You *might* think that making a printed circuit board is beyond your capability, but that is not the case.  Using supplies from Datak, a laser printer, three mylar sheets and an appropriate light source, ANYONE can manufacture a high-quality printed circuit board.  Here's a picture of the trace side of my very first attempt at duplicating Sheldon's board:

                   

     The toughest part of turning out this board was cutting the half-round hole on the right side of the board.  (A band saw was used to cut the hole here.)  You'll notice it isn't EXACTLY round, but it's "good enough" to get the job done!  This hole is necessary to allow the circuit board to wrap halfway around the 6V4/EZ80 rectifier tube.  The actual circuit traces turned out REALLY nice!  Of course, drilling all the necessary holes for the component leads isn't exactly a picnic, but it's not that bad either.  I used a small drill press to do the job, but a Dremel (tm) tool will do fine as well.  Even a standard electric drill will work, but since the drill bits are so small, it's VERY easy to break them if you're not careful.

     While it *might* be possible to find four capacitors that are *somewhat* close to the original values of the can capacitor, getting the values exactly right isn't possible.  The solution is to use multiple capacitors connected in parallel.  In this case, to get a replacement for a 40-40-20-20 uF capacitor, we're using twelve 10 uF capacitors.  Since all the capacitors are identical, parts ordering is tremendously simplified.  The final result gives us two groups of four capacitors and two groups of two capacitors.  Here's what it looks like after we solder them in:

         

     Pretty neat, huh?  Sheldon's circuit board design also lets us mount the five Watt 500 Ohm Power Resistors and the 1 Watt 470 Ohm resistor (the 470 Ohm resistor has yet to be mounted on this board).  In addition, Sheldon has made it possible to replace the original 6V4/EZ80 rectifier with two silicon diodes, if you desire to change over to solid-state rectification.  Since we're going to retain the tube rectifier, we won't be adding the silicon diodes.  There is one point to mention when you "stuff" the circuit board with parts:  The Five Watt Power Resistors get quite hot, so instead of potentially scorching the circuit board, allow the Power Resistors to have a little "air space" between the bottom of the resistors and the top of the circuit board.  Here's a picture to show you what I mean:

                         

     The capacitors are mounted flush against the circuit board.  The 470 Ohm 1 Watt resistor doesn't get anywhere NEAR as hot as the Five Watt resistors, but we'll give it a little air space as well when we add it to the board.

     Using this circuit board, there is no need to drill any additional holes in the FM-3 chassis.  That's right!  It's a "drop-in" solution to a rather "vexing" problem!  The board fastens to the chassis using the two mounting holes for the rectifier tube socket and one of the holes for the tuning capacitor cover.  And it all fits in the space formerly occupied by the can capacitor!

     Nice work, Sheldon!  (And thanks for the parts list too!)  The parts are available from digi-key and while there have been SOME changes to the exact "style" of the resistors, all parts are readily available (and pretty cheap too!)  When I ordered the parts, the capacitors were running a little under $1.10 each!  That's under $14.00 for all TWELVE of them!  Not bad!

     That's it for now, but there's a LOT more coming soon!  Our second dose of Fine Tuning is just getting underway.  There's a LOT of good music ahead!  Stay tuned!

Sincerely,

Bill Thomas

rlee8394

Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #42 on: 20 Mar 2009, 04:05 pm »
Sheldon does good work. If you don't want the hassle of etching and building your own board, order Chauncy Epperson's for $44.95 here:

http://home.comcast.net/~netminer/CAPBOARD.html

Check out his other parts and upgrades for the FM-3 while you're there. He is close to finishing up his new FM-3 motherboard. I'll be installing that when available and report back soon.

Ron

Bill Thomas

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #43 on: 21 Mar 2009, 04:37 am »
Dear Ron,

     While Chauncy offers a lot of pretty good items for the FM-3, my opinion of his replacement capacitor board is somewhat mixed.  Yes, it will do the job, but his design places three electrolytic capacitors in EXTREMELY close proximity to the 6V4/EZ80 rectifier.  As we all know, heat is not kind to electrolytics, so placing them this close to the rectifier tube would not be *my* personal choice.  Sheldon's board places one of the 5 Watt resistors in this area of the board and it isn't anywhere NEAR as close to the rectifier tube as the capacitors in Chauncy's board.  Please don't take this as a "dig" against Chauncy's work.  I'm just saying that I *personally* prefer Sheldon's board layout.  It's only my *opinion* (and it's worth exactly what you've PAID for it!)

     But there are other reasons to "roll your own" printed circuit boards.  Here's a breakdown:

1     14-066 Positive pre-sensitized circuit board......... 6" x 6" ..........................$5.53
1     12-402 Positive type developer concentrate       2 FL OZ. 59ML ..................$3.45
1     ER-3    1/4 lb. Ferric Chloride Etchant Powder................................. ......... $5.95

(Prices courtesy of OCEAN STATE ELECTRONICS' Website - other sources' prices may vary.)

     In addition, you will need two suitable trays, but instead of spending a BUNCH on trays designed for this, pick up a couple of Pyrex glass baking dishes at your local Wal-Mart.  The two I bought were *just* slightly bigger than the 6" x 6" circuit board which allows you to *gently* agitate the board in the solutions.  Also, the higher sides of the dishes allow you to place the dishes in a sink of warm water to heat the solutions while you are agitating them.  If the water cools before the job is done, drain the sink and refill it with hot water to complete the job.  Also, these dishes come with plastic covers that seal pretty well to keep the solutions clean between developing and etching jobs.  Total cost?  About $16.00!

     So far, that brings our cost of "rolling your own" boards to: $30.93 (and we haven't added the parts yet, right?)  As I mentioned, the capacitors run a little less than $14.00.  That brings us to $44.93!  Add the three resistors and we've gone a few Dollars over the price for Chauncy's board.  Doesn't sound like much of a *deal*, does it?

     Ahh, but there's more!  For our money spent, we won't just get the FM-3 capacitor board.  We'll ALSO get a capacitor board for a PAS preamp, AND an SCA-35, AND THREE PEC module boards as well!  It'll cost about $60.00 for the parts to populate those boards, so that brings us up to a little under $105.00.  (Yes, there'll be shipping charges to add as well.)

     To get Chauncy's replacement capacitor modules for the PAS preamp, you'll pay $34.99.  And the PEC modules for the FM-3 (along with some new coupling capacitors and two replacement 10K resistors for the IF board) will add another $44.95!  That brings our total to over $120.00 - and we STILL don't get a replacement cap board for the SCA-35 available from Chauncy!

     Meanwhile, with the supplies we have, we will be able to do ANOTHER run of circuit boards for just the cost of another pre-sensitized circuit board - $5.53!

     The upshot of all this is:  We get an SCA-35 capacitor board for FREE!  AND, we have another set of boards available for our NEXT acquisitions!

     Granted, if you're just trying to get a single FM-3 repaired with a replacement capacitor board and upgraded PEC modules, spending about $80.00 with Chauncy will do the deed, but there are a few things you WON'T get:  First, you won't get to enjoy the challenge of turning out your own circuit boards.  You won't get the added knowledge and that sense of satisfaction from learning HOW to make those boards either.

     By the way, you don't really NEED to make printed circuit boards for the PEC modules.  You can turn out perfectly acceptable modules on "perf board" using point-to-point wiring.  The circuit boards just make things a little neater and more professional looking.

     In the end, it all depends on exactly how much you possess the "do-it-yourself" gene.  I don't know about you, but *I* certainly got a real "kick" out of seeing those PC boards emerge from the etchant sporting such well-defined circuit traces.

     And while we're doing a cost analysis, consider using the "Authenticap" to replace the original quad cap at $57.00.  Add another $15.00 to make the PEC modules on "perf board" and we're WELL under the cost of Chauncy's boards.

     In *my* case, doing a run of Sheldon's boards made good economic sense, since I DO plan to do other rebuilds soon.  The fact that I prefer the design of Sheldon's capacitor board for the FM-3 puts the "cherry" on the Sundae (at least, for ME it does)!

     Again, I'm not knocking Chauncy's work in ANY way.  I'm simply stating *my* particular preferences, along with the reasons WHY they make sense for *MY* situation.  Your situation is probably VERY different.  I just thought people might enjoy seeing how nicely the "Sheldon Stokes Option" can turn out.

     Besides, I always DID like having fun with photo techniques and chemicals.  If that isn't *your* "cup of tea", Chauncy's solutions might just be the better choice for you!

     One of the GREAT things about having so many Dynaco units out there is that we have LOTS of choices!  One of the *not* so great things about having so many Dynaco units out there is:  we have LOTS of choices!  Weigh ALL the aspects of these choices carefully - then, HAVE FUN!

     More to come!

Sincerely,

Bill Thomas

rlee8394

Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #44 on: 24 Mar 2009, 06:11 pm »
Bill,

You may also want to rotate R11 and R13 on PC-8 so that the heat emitted rises up and away from the board. I do this with all those types of filled resistors. Sure, you can't read the value of the resistors that way, but we all know value anyway. It keeps from scorching the board.

I have been using Chauncey's upgrades, including the power supply board a for a couple of years now. While I understand your concerns, I have not run into any problems with it. Fan cooling, or maybe some sort of heat barrier would aid in keeping the heat from radiating to the electrolytics for those who are concerned with this issue.

On a related item, for those who don't wish to etch their own boards, go to:

http://www.expresspcb.com/

Download their schematic and layout software to design your own boards and then order from them. They are great to work with and I've used them often.

Thanks,
Ron

malden

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #45 on: 16 May 2014, 01:22 am »
I know Bill passed some time ago but I am wondering if the photos he uploaded in this thread are gone forever?

nortryder

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #46 on: 17 Nov 2014, 01:04 am »
I don't know if they are, but they would sure be helpful if they were still around.

max01

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #47 on: 15 Jun 2016, 12:07 pm »
December 18th, 2008 - Update:  "A Little Bit of History!"

     Dynaco's FM-3 tuner is a thoroughly REMARKABLE piece of electronic engineering.  Not because it provides the highest sensitivity of any tube-based FM tuner (It doesn't!)  Not because it has greater ability to separate closely spaced signals on the FM band.  (It doesn't do that either!)  So why on earth would ANYONE be interested in such a tuner?  Because it is one of the most truly *musical* tuners on the planet!  So, is *that* what makes it so remarkable?  Nope!

     What makes the Dynaco FM-3 tuner so thoroughly remarkable is that ANYONE who is able to solder can build one from scratch, and then completely ALIGN it with absolutely NO test equipment of any kind!  Now *that* is TRULY remarkable.  Of course, it doesn't hurt that a properly constructed and aligned tuner simply sounds SO good!

     The FM-3 tuner was actually an update of Dynaco's FM-1 tuner.  The FM-1 was introduced in 1961 as a monophonic tuner.  It was based on a design by Stewart Hegeman, and Ed Laurent (the "father" of so many of Dynaco's "classic" tube components) made the design a reality.  It featured a brass face plate and brown plastic knobs, very similar in styling to the PAS-2 preamplifier.  In kit form, the FM-1 sold for just $79.95!  (That's $560.05 in today's Dollars.)  If you weren't very good at soldering, you could purchase a factory-wired version for $99.95  ($700.15 in today's Dollars.)

     The FM-1, while a Monaural tuner, was designed with Stereo in mind.  Space was reserved on the chassis to add one of two "accessory modules."  One of those modules was a 17 Watt amplifier module that turned the FM-1 into a complete table-model radio - all you had to add was a speaker.  But the other module was a multiplex adapter that turned the Monaural FM-1 tuner into a complete Stereophonic tuner.  It was pretty easy to tell which module Dynaco had in mind.  The metal plate that covered the hole in the chassis had "reserved for multiplex adapter" printed on it!

     The multiplex adapter was designed by Sid Lidz and provided greater than 30 dB of separation.  This may not sound like a lot, but back "in the day" it was common for tuners to really *struggle* to provide more than 25 dB of separation.  To put things into perspective, it is very UN-common for a phono cartridge to provide more than 35 dB of separation, even today!  Here's a picture of the front of an FM-1 tuner that has been converted to Stereo operation with the addition of the multiplex adapter:

                   

     The FM-3 tuner was introduced in 1964 and basically took all the elements of the FM-1 (with the Stereo adapter included) and put them into a restyled unit featuring Dynaco's "Champagne Gold" face plate.  It also added a new twist:  By pulling on the Volume Control knob, you could activate a switch that forced the Stereo tuner into Monaural operation - VERY handy during low-signal conditions.

     This is a *bit* of a "simplification."  There were actually two versions of the FM-3 tuner, but for all practical purposes, they were quite similar.  Dynaco even sold "upgrade kits" that allowed FM-1 owners to replace the face plate and knobs with the more modern "Champagne Gold" versions.  Here's a picture of an early version of the FM-3 tuner:

                   

     Today, FM-3 tuners are commonly sold on eBay at rock-bottom prices.  The problem is, many of these units (if they work at all) suffer from "rock bottom performance" as well.  They hum, they drift and have little or no stereo separation.  Why?  As with most tube-type electronics, HEAT is thy enemy!  After many years of faithful service, an FM-3 tuner will suffer from poor alignment, resistors that have drifted in value, bad tubes and one more "little" problem:  The FM-3 tuner uses a dual "magic-eye" indicator tube that was discontinued by 1970!  In fact, Dynaco sent out a letter to it's dealers and even some of the purchasers of its tuners offering to buy "any and all" EMM801's that might be available - even a quantity of ONE!  Sadly, they were unable to procure enough of them to continue production and the FM-3 was quietly discontinued around 1970.  So why even bother trying to restore one today?  Because when properly operating, they simply sound SO good!

     Restoring an FM-3 tuner today is complicated by the fact that MANY of its parts are now made of "unobtainium."  If you happen to own an FM-3 tuner, or are considering buying one, do yourself a favor and also buy a "parts unit" in order to have replacement parts available to properly restore and repair your existing tuner.

     If you are thinking of buying an eBay unit, here are some things to watch out for:  Does the tuning capacitor operate smoothly with no "play" in the tuning knob?  Do the plates of the tuning capacitor mesh without touching?  Does it have all of its original tubes?  (This is ONE time you certainly hope it does!  Dynaco used two Telefunken 12AX7's in the FM-3 - needless to say, they are VERY desirable, but chances are, they were "harvested" by the eBay seller and sold for BIG bucks elsewhere!)  Are all tube shields present?  (Every tube except the rectifier and the tuning indicator should have a shield).  Is the tuning indicator tube present and does it light up with a normal blue-green glow?  Replacements ARE available, but they are expensive!  (I may possibly have the largest stock of NOS Telefunken EMM801's in the WORLD - about thirty!)  Does the unit pick up ANY signals and play them?  If it DOES make SOME sound, when you tune it, is there a "scratchiness" to the audio when tuning?  Is there ANY stereo separation at all?  What about cosmetics?  Does your potential "candidate" have a nice looking face plate and knobs, with all lettering intact?  And here's one more tip:  Do the IF transformers have a flat top, or a "sloped top?"  (You want the ones with the "sloped top.")  If the answers to the above questions are in the affirmative, there is "probably" no reason why you can't restore your FM-3 tuner back into the "picture of health!"

     In response to our "poll question" we are going to be restoring an FM-3 tuner - just to see exactly how difficult it will be.  But not only that, we're going to be rebuilding TWO of them at the same time.  One will feature Allen-Bradley carbon composition resistors (much like an original FM-3), while the other one will feature more modern metal-film resistors.  There are reports that metal film resistors have a tendency to compromise the performance of an FM-3 tuner, and I wanted to see for myself if this is actually the case.  When we're finished, we'll have at least ONE (mostly) new Dynaco FM-3 tuner!  With REAL luck, we'll have TWO of them!  Cross your fingers and hold on tight, this is gonna be REALLY fun!

Sincerely,

Bill Thomas

Hi Bill and thank you for this quite interesting review, however, I suppose due to its age, pictures are not visible. So could I ask you to send them to me?

Thanks in advance !

ratso

Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #48 on: 15 Jun 2016, 12:58 pm »
hey max, a lot of us here used to look forward to bill's new threads very much. unfortunately, bill passed away a long time ago. nice to take a trip down memory lane with this though  :thumb:

max01

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #49 on: 15 Jun 2016, 01:13 pm »
Oh, I am sorry, I didn't knew :( I am a new member....

Mark Korda

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #50 on: 15 Jun 2016, 02:12 pm »
Hi Max, Bill Thomas should have made a book with all his Dynaco rebuilds. He was so helpful and inspirational and also just a great guy!
   I have a real nice FM-3. It took awhile to find a good one. There is another site which has a great article on the FM-3's history and what you can do to keep it alive, in fact thats the title of the article. I have to run to work but here is how to find it....Google (Audio by VanAlStine). Once your there go to Audio Basics newsletter. Frank Van AlStine has an article about keeping the FM-3 alive. You might have to search awhile but its there and if you can't find it I will when I get home. It's easy to understand just as Bill Thomas's Dyna rebuilds were. VanAlStine saw Bill's step by step rebuilds and loved them.
   Max, check out some of Bill Thomas's other rebuilds of Dynaco tubes. You have to go back a bit.
   VanAlStine said a properly aligned FM-3 is about the 3rd best tuner in the world behind the Marantz 10b and the McIntosh M-78. Of course this can be argued as H.H. Scott and Fisher are right there too.
   Let me know if you find it or can not....take care ..Mark Korda

davidgrace

Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #51 on: 15 Nov 2018, 02:32 am »
I had one and sold it. Bad choice.
When you found a good signal it was quite wonderful.

dB Cooper

Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #52 on: 17 Nov 2018, 02:27 am »
Someone was able to somehow find Bill's pics for a Scott preamp rebuild. I wonder if these photos are sitting in some crevasse on the net somewhere....

aguaazul

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #53 on: 19 Dec 2020, 05:47 pm »
A member over at the The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum named 'Stewdan' set me up with the web files for the threads up to reply 44 of the original 'Double Dose of Fine Tuning!' thread & up to reply 32 on 'Our "Second Dose" of "Fine Tuning" - A TOTAL Dynaco FM-3 reconstruction.

I put them in PDF format on a Google Drive. Here are the links:

Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - _A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!_Full Thread through Post 44
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15B4E107St_x4lreS8CbOvAXRWc03PuEd/view?usp=sharing

Our _Second Dose_ of _Fine Tuning_ - A TOTAL Dynaco FM-3 reconstruction!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j6kd8F3-mOOYvZcI69YVaoRzha4uJ-id/view?usp=sharing

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Aguaazul

avahifi

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #54 on: 19 Dec 2020, 08:58 pm »
My info from our old Audio Basics newsletter on how to keep an old FM3 running is still available.

You can email me at frank@avahifi.com for a .pdf of this info.

Frsnk

aguaazul

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Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #55 on: 19 Dec 2020, 09:14 pm »
Frank,

Would that be Volume Nine - Number Eleven - November, 1990?

That is a great read, thanks!

Aguaazul

dB Cooper

Re: Dynaco FM-3 rebuild - "A Double Dose of Fine Tuning!"
« Reply #56 on: 19 Dec 2020, 10:31 pm »
Read somewhere (I think it may have been Frank even) that FM3's are now so old that the IF transformers may have cooked out of spec and require instrument realignment. If the first one is off, they will all be off if the standard procedure is followed. Any guidance from Frank or anyone else on that?

If you have an FM station worth the effort, you are lucky indeed.