Best Vintage Speakers

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brk36

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Best Vintage Speakers
« on: 3 Feb 2016, 04:48 am »
So, since my hopes of fixing my XP-18s has lead me down a rather expensive (more than 300.00 dollars rabbit hole) I now turn to all vintage lovers to tell me what my next pair of speakers should me.
Please note I already own a pair of JBL L100 Centuries and just bought a pair of Walsh 2 Ohms.

I have three systems and hence I need a third pair of speakers, please keep it within reason in terms of price. Top end 1,500 dollars. Also, I would like to have graphic equalizer/rheostats on the speakers! Not a must but it would be nice. Thanks guys

Benjamin

S Clark

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #1 on: 3 Feb 2016, 06:19 am »
I owned a pair of Ohm G (a predecessor to your Walsh 2) and still have a pair of Design Acoustics D-12's similar to these     -- and once had the JBL 100's on my short list.
But those days are long gone.  Modern design has far exceeded what designer of 50 years ago could do.  Today, anyone with a computer and a measuring system can exceed the best labs back then, and do it in their living rooms. 
Like I said, I still have my D12's, but for any critical listening, modern speakers are soooo much better than what they made back then.  So no recommendations for vintage.
But for modern, around here nearly everyone recommends what they own.  I own GR-Research stuff, because I could build it from kits much cheaper than buying anything of comparable quality.  But I also like Usher and Audio Kinesis.

Letitroll98

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #2 on: 3 Feb 2016, 01:17 pm »
For that vintage sound, and not JBL or Walsh since you have those, I'd recommend anything Snell or Allison, great value for what you get.  Snells will have to have been refoamed.

brk36

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #3 on: 3 Feb 2016, 01:49 pm »
I owned a pair of Ohm G (a predecessor to your Walsh 2) and still have a pair of Design Acoustics D-12's similar to these     -- and once had the JBL 100's on my short list.
But those days are long gone.  Modern design has far exceeded what designer of 50 years ago could do.  Today, anyone with a computer and a measuring system can exceed the best labs back then, and do it in their living rooms. 
Like I said, I still have my D12's, but for any critical listening, modern speakers are soooo much better than what they made back then.  So no recommendations for vintage.
But for modern, around here nearly everyone recommends what they own.  I own GR-Research stuff, because I could build it from kits much cheaper than buying anything of comparable quality.  But I also like Usher and Audio Kinesis.

First question, how are those D-12s in terms of sound quality? Comparing them not to modern tech but to other speakers in their time. Basically better or worse than the JBL L100 Centuries I already own?

Ok, thanks I will look into Usher and Audio Kinesis. I am kind of unsure of the GR-Research stuff because even though I am good at DiY projects, I have zero experience in building speakers, would that be a problem? How hard are these kits?

Quote
For that vintage sound, and not JBL or Walsh since you have those, I'd recommend anything Snell or Allison, great value for what you get.  Snells will have to have been refoamed.

I will totally check both of those brands out, is there a specific model you think is above the rest? 

Thanks guys!

Benjamin

S Clark

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #4 on: 3 Feb 2016, 02:52 pm »
First question, how are those D-12s in terms of sound quality? Comparing them not to modern tech but to other speakers in their time. Basically better or worse than the JBL L100 Centuries I already own?

Ok, thanks I will look into Usher and Audio Kinesis. I am kind of unsure of the GR-Research stuff because even though I am good at DiY projects, I have zero experience in building speakers, would that be a problem? How hard are these kits?
At the time I bought those Design Acoustics I had a pair of large Advents, and I had looked at JBL 100, AR3a, and the Ohm F.  I thought the D12 and the Ohm F were a step above the other two- probably the omnidirectional sound... similar to open baffle which is very popular today.  I still think the D12's do a pretty good job on classical music. 
As far as building kits, the only difficulty is building cabinets.  If you are decent with wood, have a table saw, I'd say go for a kit or a well documented diy design... you cant beat the value. You have already spoken with Danny at GR-Research. You might visit Dennis Murphy's designs at http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html
Both are top tier, highly respected designers. Dennis now does design work for Salk speaker, good but pricey.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #5 on: 3 Feb 2016, 04:15 pm »
How about a pair of DCM Time Window's.

brk36

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #6 on: 3 Feb 2016, 06:14 pm »
At the time I bought those Design Acoustics I had a pair of large Advents, and I had looked at JBL 100, AR3a, and the Ohm F.  I thought the D12 and the Ohm F were a step above the other two- probably the omnidirectional sound... similar to open baffle which is very popular today.  I still think the D12's do a pretty good job on classical music. 
As far as building kits, the only difficulty is building cabinets.  If you are decent with wood, have a table saw, I'd say go for a kit or a well documented diy design... you cant beat the value. You have already spoken with Danny at GR-Research. You might visit Dennis Murphy's designs at http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html
Both are top tier, highly respected designers. Dennis now does design work for Salk speaker, good but pricey.

I would probably like the D-12's since I am a classical pianist working towards a second Master's in Music, but the price is almost 1500 and for that money I think I would be better off with the kit.

Out of curiosity which kit did you build from GR Research? I am looking at the OB-5 and OB-7 trying to decide which would be better.

Quote
How about a pair of DCM Time Window's.

Do you mean specifically the original Time Windows? They look really cool, and are very inexpensive (200 a pair from what I am seeing)

RDavidson

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #7 on: 3 Feb 2016, 06:46 pm »
+1 for original DCM Time Windows. Very cool old speakers. Look for the slightly later 1a version. If I recall correctly, the 1a has better drivers (Vifa?).

thunderbrick

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #8 on: 3 Feb 2016, 06:57 pm »
+1 for original DCM Time Windows. Very cool old speakers. Look for the slightly later 1a version. If I recall correctly, the 1a has better drivers (Vifa?).

+2!

eclein

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #9 on: 3 Feb 2016, 07:02 pm »
I still use a pair of JBL 4312A's in my system from time to time but I'm now of the thought like others to leave the older designs as a closed chapter in the hobby and now I'm just looking at new stuff thats affordable and highly designed. I'm keeping my JBL collection, whats left, and looking for some ripping bookshelf speakers for my new apartment which is a change in room sizes etc..... it'll be awhile saving up but thats the fun, they tell me! LOL........

 ...how about older Wharfedales as a thought or go back over the years and find out what the "years best" were until you find an idea you might enjoy looking into?

pumpkinman

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #10 on: 3 Feb 2016, 07:05 pm »
How about a pair of DCM Time Window's.

Just picked up a pair of DCM TF 600's about 3 weeks ago and love them. 1st pair of Timeframes that I've owned.  :thumb:  Cost: 1/2 tank of gas and $215

S Clark

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #11 on: 3 Feb 2016, 07:06 pm »
Out of curiosity which kit did you build from GR Research? I am looking at the OB-5 and OB-7 trying to decide which would be better.
I've built the AV-1, the AV-3, the N2x, and the X-Statik, and the LS9.  Some of these are not on his website, but call and ask about them.  There is plenty of info about each around the web and here at AC.  I don't see how you could go wrong with the X-Statik and later add a sub.  Hearing the LS series was the first time I had heard a speaker reproduce the bottom octave of a concert grand with realism.  My piano training stopped well before yours, but I've done my time on a 9' instrument.

brk36

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #12 on: 3 Feb 2016, 08:56 pm »
I've built the AV-1, the AV-3, the N2x, and the X-Statik, and the LS9.  Some of these are not on his website, but call and ask about them.  There is plenty of info about each around the web and here at AC.  I don't see how you could go wrong with the X-Statik and later add a sub.  Hearing the LS series was the first time I had heard a speaker reproduce the bottom octave of a concert grand with realism.  My piano training stopped well before yours, but I've done my time on a 9' instrument.

That is really cool you have classical training, when they finish editing my last recital I will send you a file of it. I would love to build the LS9 but I think it will be well outside of my price range and also way too big for my space in terms of sound and height. I would love to have a pair some day for sure though!

Would you sooner have me build an X-Statik than the OB-7? I would really prefer to build the OB-7 Plus but he doesnt stock it anymore...

Donald

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #13 on: 3 Feb 2016, 09:41 pm »
Not real old, (15 to 25 years depending on model), but on the used market the PSB Stratus Gold  or Gold i can be had for between $500 to $750 depending on which model and condition. A very respectable speaker for the money.

Freo-1

Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #14 on: 3 Feb 2016, 10:24 pm »
Boston Acoustics A-400.

Sound is well balanced, good bass, nice mids and highs.

johsti

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #15 on: 4 Feb 2016, 12:05 am »
Yamaha NS-1000. 

Wind Chaser

Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #16 on: 4 Feb 2016, 12:20 am »
Anything Acoustat  :D

Had a pair of M&K S1b, wish I had not sold them. Saw a used pair in immaculate condition going for $500 ...tempting, but do I want stand mounts?

dB Cooper

Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #17 on: 4 Feb 2016, 01:56 am »
I'll put in a word here for the Dynaco A-25 or any of the A-series speakers for that matter, but the 25 was made in huge numbers making them relatively easy to find, and at a low cost. A simple two way with the simplest crossover imaginable. Ex brother in law still has mine and they still work (butyl rubber surround rather than the rot-prone foam used in most of the acoustic-suspension designs of the era). What makes the Dynaco speakers unusual is the 'aperiodic' tuning, which makes for a much tighter bass than most of their contemporaries and also makes for a relatively flat impedance curve, making them a very easy load for amplifiers to drive.

RDavidson

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #18 on: 4 Feb 2016, 02:12 am »
You might also consider classic Snell speakers = The grandfathers of Audio Note speakers. They can be hard to find in really nice shape, though. I'm also not sure if parts are hard to come by or not, either. Worth looking into though.

I'm also a fan of old EPI's. Quite "modern" sounding especially compared to Dynacos which are also very nice. Just depends on what you're looking for. :thumb:

Letitroll98

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Re: Best Vintage Speakers
« Reply #19 on: 4 Feb 2016, 02:25 am »

I will totally check both of those brands out, is there a specific model you think is above the rest? 

Thanks guys!

Benjamin

Hey Ben, for the Snells the most impressive of the extensive line of Peter Snell's models is the Type C Series V.  Not their largest, that's reserved for the Type A and Type B, but maybe their most completely successful model, one with no real weaknesses.  And I have a fondness for the Type E Series IV, a medium sized two way tower.  Very important to pay attention to the Series designation, one number apart series can mean an entirely different speaker, or a slight revision.  You don't know what you'll get without doing a little bit of research.

For Allison's, Roy Allison's prototype is the model One, a speaker that is designed to be placed against the wall in order to create a predictable environment for bass reproduction with a flat in room frequency response.  The model Three is one half of a One and is designed to go into a corner.  There are some bookshelf models that don't fully realize the concept.  There are no series designation or model changes, a One is a One, a Three is a Three, etc.  The drivers were all handmade in house and are extraordinary unique, the tweeter and midrange are like nothing you've ever seen, designed for very wide dispersion.

All of these are very rare and are snapped up quickly on the used market, which would be the biggest knock on the recommendation.  Best of luck with whatever you decide on.