Chip amp versus D-100

suits_me · « **on:** 16 Nov 2005, 03:04 am »

Dusty, I realize manufacturers must like their newest creations - or how could they justify them - but could you assess the differences between your chip amp and the D-100 mono?

I am toying with an idea of passively bi-amping some Vandy 2Ce Sigs so that I could do some bass EQ below the 600 hz crossover. Four D-100 blocks might be cost prohibitive for me, so I wonder what I'd be giving up by trying this with the chip amps in terms of sound quality, not spls.

Thank you.

CIAudio · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Nov 2005, 03:25 am »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but VMB•1 is soon to be discontinued. They're great little amplifiers, especially for smaller room systems with 2-ways or single driver speakers, however...since we introduced the D series, sales of VMB•1's have dropped to just a few pair a month and are no longer a profitable item.

On the upside, the D•100 is a better amplifier all around...more detail, dynamics, extension, power, more efficient, and the current to drive difficult loads.

The one place where I do like the VMB's better is with single driver speakers, which usually sound best with amplifiers possessing a more laid back sound since the character of the speaker is usually heavy emphasis in the midrange.

chadh · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Nov 2005, 06:04 am »

Quote from: CIAudio

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but VMB•1 is soon to be discontinued. They're great little amplifiers, especially for smaller room systems with 2-ways or single driver speakers, however...since we introduced the D series, sales of VMB•1's have dropped to just a few pair a month and are no longer a profitable item.

On the upside, the D•100 is a better amplifier all around...more detail, dynamics, extension, power, more efficient, and the current to drive difficult loads.

The one place where I do like the VMB's better is with single driver speakers, which usually sound best with amplifiers possessing a more laid back sound since the character of the speaker is usually heavy emphasis in the midrange.

Dusty,

Just out of interest, which single-driver speakers have you liked paired with the VMB1s?

Chad

CIAudio · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Nov 2005, 06:19 am »

Quote

Just out of interest, which single-driver speakers have you liked paired with the VMB1s?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of single-driver designs, but I have several customers pairing them with speakers using Jordan, Fostex, Lowther drivers. I've used them with many bookshelf types, VR-1's, Onix Ref. 1's, and Green Mountain Europa's. I currently use VMB•1's with Von Schweikert LCR-15's in the bedroom system. My preference is for multi-driver systems with good extension and the ability to move some air

chadh · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Nov 2005, 06:28 am »

Thanks for that Dusty.

I'm currently using the VMB-1s with Von Schweikert VR1s. I have an active pre-amp as well - and I certainly have no trouble moving plenty of air.

But given all the fuss around the place over single driver speakers, I was interested to know where to look if I wanted to experiment a little.

Chad

TomekZ · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Nov 2005, 02:57 pm »

Myself being devoted to single driver fullrange speakers, love the VMB-1 with my CSS FR125S in an open baffle. The VMB-1 is the best amp that I've ever had, which includes several chip amps.

tybee · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Nov 2005, 12:47 am »

I am also using the VMB-1s with single driver speakers and agree with TomekZ. I find these amps are better than the digital chip amps so popular on this site. The VMB-1s do not display the nasty glare and sibilance that I encountered with battery powered, digital chip amps. I can listen to these amps for hours without suffering listener fatigue.

It's a shame this fine product is being discontinued. Dusty, you may find after the smoke clears and the digital fad fades, people will be searching out this excellent product again.

CIAudio · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Nov 2005, 04:14 am »

Quote

It's a shame this fine product is being discontinued. Dusty, you may find after the smoke clears and the digital fad fades, people will be searching out this excellent product again.

Yep, we wish we could afford to keep making them, but don't throw us in the class of modified toy amps. Our Class D models are not chip amps (they're fully discrete), do not have glare or sibilance. They outperform every amp I've ever built or owned...tube or solid state.
These are the real deal...not a fad.

brj · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Nov 2005, 06:07 am »

Quote from: CIAudio

Our Class D models are not chip amps (they're fully discrete)

For an given electronics product or design, what is the benefit of a well executed fully discrete implementation vs. a well executed PCB/silicon/etc. implementation? (Several times now, I've run across the assumption that a discrete implementation is always the better solution, but I have never seen an explanation as to why.)

Thanks!

CIAudio · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Nov 2005, 06:48 am »

Quote

(Several times now, I've run across the assumption that a discrete implementation is always the better solution, but I have never seen an explanation as to why.)

Being that hi-end audio is a very small market to the semiconductor makers, most IC's are designed for mass-market products where best performance is not the highest priority.

When it comes to audio amplifiers, IC's are very limiting because of their small die size. Because of this, they cannot dissipate much heat, resulting in low current and power limits. This is why you don't see any "chip amps" over 50w or so...to make more power requires discrete output devices.

As for low-level circuits, a chip may in fact be better than a discrete circuit. The problem with analog signal IC's is you can't change anything inside them, you have to find one you like and design a circuit around it.

Discrete circuits require careful layout and parts matching, and cost more to build, but can be "voiced" more precisely to the designers goals.

suits_me · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Nov 2005, 04:51 am »

Thanks for the info and heads up, Dusty. It turned into a very interesting thread.

bluewax · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Nov 2005, 05:30 am »

I'm hoping to audition two different sets of speakers over the next month or so with the D-100's. I'll let y'all know my thoughts, if interested. The speakers are the Zu Druids and Gingko Audio's Tubuli. Cheers, bw

CIAudio · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Nov 2005, 05:56 am »

Quote

I'm hoping to audition two different sets of speakers over the next month or so with the D-100's. I'll let y'all know my thoughts, if interested. The speakers are the Zu Druids and Gingko Audio's Tubuli. Cheers, bw

I haven't heard them with either speaker you mention. I did have a customer who tried D-200 with Zu Druids...he said they sounded good, but not the magic he was looking for...YMMV

Vinh Vu of Gingko owns both D-100's and 200's and likes them very much.
After trying several amps (Nuforce included), he chose D-100's to demo the Tubuli at the upcoming 2006 CES.

bluewax · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Nov 2005, 06:16 am »

Good to know re: the Druids. Thank you!

I actually was the one who had casually mentioned the D-100s to Vinh after reading so many positive words here on Audiocircle. Great to hear that there's synergy.

Great sound and customer service make this crazy pursuit that much more enjoyable and enriching. I am looking forward to seeing two blue LEDs glowing next to the Tubuli when they arrive in coming days!

Cheers, bw