AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 18 Dec 2015, 07:04 am
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Prices are $650 / pair duals, $850 / pair triples, boxes and shipping materials were much more costly than expected. These things are going to be heavy (approx 75lbs x 2 for duals, 95 lbs x 2 triples.)
As seen later in this thread, there are options for inlaid grill frames for duals @ $60 /pr, triples @ $75/pr.
Also shown later in thread are some amp boxes that will fit the A370PEQ and HX800 amps. These boxes are 45'd in the corners and each corner has a #20 biscuit. Assembly is simple. $60 /pr with a flat pack or $70 /pr alone (helps cover a box and packing).
All pricing is in $US.
The duals measure 16" w x 14" d x 30" h.
The triples measure 16' w x 14" d x 44" h.
Bases/ tops are 19" x 17", a smaller overhanging top is also available.
The overhanging tops are much simpler for people to prep (glue them up, give a light sanding, prime, and paint,), no seams to deal with.
The cabinets use both dadoes and dowels to make asembly very easy. Both the baffle and braces will fit into dados..
Each side panel will have a pair of dowels in each end that will mate witht he top plate and base also aiding alignment.
Here is an assembly video that Peter Rawlings did for us :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBmmJzS_iU&feature=youtu.be
Contact us if you are wanting something specific
Cabinets:
1.5" MDF side panels, tops, bases
1" MDF baffles & brases
Combination of dados / dowels for side panel/baffle/base/top alignment. easy toassemble :beer:
Driver mounting screw holes pre drilled
Round-over on rear side of driver cutouts
CNC cut
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174861)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174862)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174863)
jay
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Cool. What State are you in ?
charles
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Cool. What State are you in ?
charles
Look "up and to the left" (BC) :lol:
Mostly shipping out of WA to help keep pricing down. These are heavy and there are 2 boxes per shipment.
jay
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Fantastic Jay! I know that one point of a flat pack is to be able to offer it at the lowest price possible by making a run of identical ones, keeping the number of table saw set-ups and cuts as low as possible. But since you just mentioned the frame may be offered with the choice of either an overhanging or flush top, let me ask you the following:
1- Would you consider making the same choice for the bottom, i.e. flush with the sides?
2- All that would be necessary for an inset front grill to be possible is for the horizontal middle brace to stop short of the front edge of the side panels by, say, an inch. Would you consider making a set of frames with the front brace one inch shallower? If not, it would be easy for the buyer to cut (or have cut) an inch off each brace. Then, little blocks could be glued into the four inner corners of the H-frame onto which the grill frames could be secured, for a clean finished look to the H-frame.
3- If the answer to question 2 is yes, would you consider making the grill frames themselves? Just a simple 3/4" MDF frame (picture frame style) with perhaps a strip across the middle (running horizontally, left to right) to prevent the long sides of the grill frame from bowing inward when the grill cloth is stretched tight across it. If not, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a set together by anyone desiring them, from strips of MDF.
4- Will you be offering a simple MDF box for the Rythmik plate amp?
Whether the answer to these questions is yes or no, the H-frame is very welcomed. Thanks for offering them!---Eric.
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Fantastic Jay! I know that one point of a flat pack is to be able to offer it at the lowest price possible by making a run of identical ones, keeping the number of table saw set-ups and cuts as low as possible. But since you just mentioned the frame may be offered with the choice of either an overhanging or flush top, let me ask you the following:
1- Would you consider making the same choice for the bottom, i.e. flush with the sides?
Yup, no issue with that. I've actually made the base and top panel interchangeable to simply
2- All that would be necessary for an inset front grill to be possible is for the horizontal middle brace to stop short of the front edge of the side panels by, say, an inch. Would you consider making a set of frames with the front brace one inch shallower? If not, it would be easy for the buyer to cut (or have cut) an inch off each brace. Then, little blocks could be glued into the four inner corners of the H-frame onto which the grill frames could be secured, for a clean finished look to the H-frame.
3- If the answer to question 2 is yes, would you consider making the grill frames themselves? Just a simple 3/4" MDF frame (picture frame style) with perhaps a strip across the middle (running horizontally, left to right) to prevent the long sides of the grill frame from bowing inward when the grill cloth is stretched tight across it. If not, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a set together by anyone desiring them, from strips of MDF.
I'll try and answer the above 2 together and address a bit of what you said before question 1. These are not going to be hand cut on a table saw. They are going to be CNC routerd so alterations require changes to the program (or adding optional operations) requiring additional programming hence the desire to keep things simple but extremely accuate. Making the shorter brace to facilitate an inset grill is not a big deal but that would in turn leave a bit ( an inch) of the horizontal dado(s) exposed. What could probably be done is to cut out a 1" notch from the outer edge of the braces leaving a "filler" on either edge for the dado making room for the inset grill frame. Doing this wouild not be perfect... the inside would not have a perfect 90, it would have a samll radius correspondig to the radius of the cutting bit. The end user could easily chisel this out without much trouble if he wanted a perfect 90 there. Having an optional brace like this wouild not be too much trouble.
I'm a bit hesitant to start trying to ship grill frames, pretty fragile
4- Will you be offering a simple MDF box for the Rythmik plate amp?
Thought of this a while back but then it kind of got forgotten.. I'll find out about this.
Whether the answer to these questions is yes or no, the H-frame is very welcomed. Thanks for offering them!---Eric.
[/quote]
No worries, hoping to do an initial run of a couple pairs of duals and a pair of triples fairly soon.... of course we are right in the middle of the "silly season" so things like this tend not to be the priority
jay
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The "silly season" you got that right :lol: :lol: :lol:
Looking forward to pricing and figuring out how I'm going to meet you on this side of the boarder for lunch :D
I need a dual or triple for my house now that I took my Super V's away to next door. I'm sure a lot of people are really happy you are taking the reins on this one. We need someone making these for the people that can't do it and the people that don't have time to do it.
Thanks Jay!
Greg
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The "silly season" you got that right :lol: :lol: :lol:
Looking forward to pricing and figuring out how I'm going to meet you on this side of the boarder for lunch :D
I need a dual or triple for my house now that I took my Super V's away to next door. I'm sure a lot of people are really happy you are taking the reins on this one. We need someone making these for the people that can't do it and the people that don't have time to do it.
Thanks Jay!
Greg
Hey Greg , been meaning to shoot you a message and say hi, just been busy.
I'm sure we can figure something out to get you a pack , Don (my patner in this ) , makes a fair numberof trips down to WA and other nearby states. There is always Vancouver too, it's about 4 hrs for us to get there, about 2 from your area.
It'll work out when you're ready
If you have the space, go with the triples
Will chat soon
jay
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Yup, no issue with that. I've actually made the base and top panel interchangeable to simply
I'll try and answer the above 2 together and address a bit of what you said before question 1. These are not going to be hand cut on a table saw. They are going to be CNC routerd so alterations require changes to the program (or adding optional operations) requiring additional programming hence the desire to keep things simple but extremely accuate. Making the shorter brace to facilitate an inset grill is not a big deal but that would in turn leave a bit ( an inch) of the horizontal dado(s) exposed. What could probably be done is to cut out a 1" notch from the outer edge of the braces leaving a "filler" on either edge for the dado making room for the inset grill frame. Doing this wouild not be perfect... the inside would not have a perfect 90, it would have a samll radius correspondig to the radius of the cutting bit. The end user could easily chisel this out without much trouble if he wanted a perfect 90 there. Having an optional brace like this wouild not be too much trouble.
I'm a bit hesitant to start trying to ship grill frames, pretty fragile
Thought of this a while back but then it kind of got forgotten.. I'll find out about this.
Whether the answer to these questions is yes or no, the H-frame is very welcomed. Thanks for offering them!---Eric.
No worries, hoping to do an initial run of a couple pairs of duals and a pair of triples fairly soon.... of course we are right in the middle of the "silly season" so things like this tend not to be the priority
jay
Jay, your response thankfully made me realize: With a grill frame fully inset into the H-frame, the entire length of the front edge of the two sides of the H-frame will then be visible, including the ends of the dado appearing at those front edges. I failed to realize and envision that. Duh! Yes, making the brace shallower will allow a grill frame to be inset, but that exposed dado would look like Hell! I guess the dado could be cut to end just shy of the front edge of the side, but cutting the dado thusly on a CNC machine may be cost prohibitive. Whatta ya think? Alternatively, I suppose a piece of MDF could be glued into the end of the dado to conceal it, but that would require then applying putty to conceal the resulting seam, leaving possible the seam becoming visible over time. Drat! Or, the top and bottom panels could be made to overhang the side panels by an inch, with the grill frame being inset behind the front edge of the top and bottom panels, but covering the front edges of the two side panels. I'll have to think about this!
Your decision to not make and ship grill frames in completely understandable---made of MDF, they are certainly easily broken into pieces. Luckily, they would be fairly easily made by anyone wanting them.
Yeah, after the New Year will be the time to start making and selling the H-frames. No hurry!
Thanks again---Eric.
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Hey Greg , been meaning to shoot you a message and say hi, just been busy.
I'm sure we can figure something out to get you a pack , Don (my patner in this ) , makes a fair numberof trips down to WA and other nearby states. There is always Vancouver too, it's about 4 hrs for us to get there, about 2 from your area.
It'll work out when you're ready
If you have the space, go with the triples
Will chat soon
jay
This is great news for me too. I'm moving to Vancouver Washington around the end of December or early January, so may be able to avoid needing you to ship me a pair, which won't be cheap. Talk to you later Jay---Eric.
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This is great news for me too. I'm moving to Vancouver Washington around the end of December or early January, so may be able to avoid needing you to ship me a pair, which won't be cheap. Talk to you later Jay---Eric.
We'll work something out Eric :beer:
Talk soon
jay
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See post #1 for pricing
jay
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Jay,
Are you going to offer flat pack cases for the servo amps?
The HX300 for the 8" servos and the A370PEQ for the 12" servos are different size faceplates, so that is an issue.
I know I need a pair of each type for the subs here.
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Jay,
Are you going to offer flat pack cases for the servo amps?
The HX300 for the 8" servos and the A370PEQ for the 12" servos are different size faceplates, so that is an issue.
I know I need a pair of each type for the subs here.
Rich, hate to admit it but that is something I've overlooked :oops:
When I did mine, I just made an open box (5" tall) which the amp drps into and becomes the top plate. I left the bottom side open for ventalation.
We could probably do up a simple 4 sided box with biscuits in the corners to include with the kits
I can look into this a bit and se if i can get somethig going.
jay
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Jay,
The ideas sound interesting. I posted a picture of the old amp cabinet for the A370 that I have. The one for the HX300 is the simple box you mentioned. More ventilation is good.
Looking forward to what you come up with.
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Jay,
I'm in for a pair of the doubles. I really like the look of the overhang on the top and bottom.
The amp boxes will also be a plus!!!!!
fliv
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Jay,
I'm in for a pair of the doubles. I really like the look of the overhang on the top and bottom.
The amp boxes will also be a plus!!!!!
fliv
Got it
Another good thing about the overhanging tops is you don't have to deal with a seam in your prep :)
That's the first 3 pairs spoken for ... hopig they are going o be cut this afternoon or tomorrow
Shoot me a PM when yo uhave , I'll have a couple other ?'s for you
jay
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Another option we are working on for these packs is the flush mount grills (thanks Eric)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135545)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135543)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135544)
These would be .5" .75" grill frames with a cross brace in the cneter that alignes with the center brace of the cabinet.
You could either use a small piece of velcro in each corner or a N52 magnet.
Probably looking at a $50/pr (#980 for all 4 sides) upgrade to do this ( a bit of time and material)
jay
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Another option we are working on for these packs is the flush mount grills (thanks Eric)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135545)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135543)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135544)
These would be .5" grill frames with a cross brace in the cneter that alignes with the center brace of the cabinet.
You could either use a small piece of velcro in each corner or a N52 magnet.
Probably looking at a $50 upgrade to do this ( a bit of time and material)
jay
Awesome! Exactly what I was thinking of Jay.
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What about a single OB sub frame? I already have duals but have considered adding another pair to the mix. Plus they would be easier to deal with than the triple frames.
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The grill implementation looks really good!
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What about a single OB sub frame? I already have duals but have considered adding another pair to the mix. Plus they would be easier to deal with than the triple frames.
corndog
I hadn't really considered it as when I looked at doing that to mine a while back, I just didn't feel it would look that good. You'd end up with a pretty thick area between the 2nd and 3rd drivers.
The grill implementation looks really good!
Thanks John
jay
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corndog
I hadn't really considered it as when I looked at doing that to mine a while back, I just didn't feel it would look that good. You'd end up with a pretty thick area between the 2nd and 3rd drivers.
jay
Looks don't matter that much to me. Since my long term goal is to get a pair of MMGs I was thinking a single sub under the MMG would be kinda cool. I put too much work into my duals to start over.
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Looks don't matter that much to me. Since my long term goal is to get a pair of MMGs I was thinking a single sub under the MMG would be kinda cool. I put too much work into my duals to start over.
I have a pair of the MMG's over here right now. I am going to give them a good examination and figure out what I can do with them. I think there is a lot that can be done with them.
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I have a pair of the MMG's over here right now. I am going to give them a good examination and figure out what I can do with them. I think there is a lot that can be done with them.
I would like to know how much power they need Danny when you are done
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Looks don't matter that much to me. Since my long term goal is to get a pair of MMGs I was thinking a single sub under the MMG would be kinda cool. I put too much work into my duals to start over.
I'll shoot yo ua pm CD
jay
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i would like a pair to fit quad 57 on top would be nice :thumb:,i understand if it too much trouble. :D
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i would like a pair to fit quad 57 on top would be nice :thumb:,i understand if it too much trouble. :D
The 2-12 H-frame can be laid down and used on it's side, serving double duty as a stand for the Quad 57. The dimensions of the frame so positioned are perfect for the job---16" high (the side-to-side width of the frame becoming the height) and 30" long (the top-to-bottom height becoming the length). And, the GR Research OB/Dipole Sub is THE sub for the 57! Just isolate the two from each other to prevent the frame vibrations from reaching the 57.
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I've been communicating with Jay (aka Captainhemo) for the past few days about the design for a pair of triple H-frames, and I want to let everyone know that you won't find anyone more willing and gracious in working with you to create exactly the finished results that you desire.
If anyone reading this is even slightly considering moving into the world of servo-controlled, open-baffle bass, then I highly recommend that you send a message to Jay and find out for yourself that a collaboration of some really great designers and great guys has come together to make these available. I have been running dual ob servos with Danny's Wedgies and I can say that there is no going back for me. What Jay is offering is the opportunity to get that sound in a top-grade cabinet that is customized to your tastes. He will share all his experience with finishing and setting up the final product. Jay is also downright passionate about getting things just right, and loves to communicate about his and others' musical creations.
I haven't seen the cabinets that are being cut for me yet, but I can picture them perfectly next to the NX-s that I intend to pair with them. That combination is something I can't imagine affording from a "major manufacturer," and Jay has made me feel a part of the process from the beginning, a collaborator on a project well beyond my skills. That alone turns the purchase into an experience, in the best possible sense.
I feel remiss in waiting this long to speak up on the board about my experience thus far. I would just like folks here at AC, many of whom I've learned a great deal from and have had a great time getting to know, to recognize the opportunity and to consider incorporating a pair of these beautiful monsters into their systems. I will of course share impressions and pictures when they arrive. Jay is going the extra mile in trying to help me work out a way to get them here without requiring UPS. That's just one more thing that he has done that makes me want to speak up and hopefully encourage others here to share in this offer.
Grateful as always for the great folks here at AC --
John
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Great post John! I can second your testimonial, as I have been doing the same with Jay on a pair of the double-12 H-frames. He is going way beyond what could be reasonably expected, and is accommodating my specific requests, the flush-mounted "inset" grill frame being just one. I already have a set of W-frames (bought as flat packs from the out-of-business Elemental Designs), but Jays frames are really well designed, and CNC cut, offered at a very reasonable price. Bravo!
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thank you guys, appreciate the comments.
Picked up the first run of pieces this afternoon. The inlaid grill mods didn't make the first cutting, we'll cut the rabbets tomorrow and add roundovers to the ones we need to.
Here's a few pics of one of John's triples:
Base with dowels, there are also a coule of screws that go through the base into the side panel (pre-drilled , dowels and screws will of course be supplied)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135621)
Drop the side panels over the dowels
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135622)
Slide the baffle in (front / rear roundovers to come)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135623)
top with dowels ready to cap the frame
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135624)
Slip braces into position
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135625)
Wiring holes in braces and baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135626)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135629)
Pre-drilled screw holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135628)
Like I said, rabbets will be added, grill frames were cut (most of them), I'll also add a rdius to the rear of each driver hole just because it can't hurt :)
For anyone wanting the easiest, least amount of work, I do recommend you go with the over haninging tops/bases. No matter how precise the cuts, if you go with the fluosh pieces, you will have a seam to deal with and that means some minor filling and sanding after gluing and clamping
With the 1" baffles and braces, thiese things are "beefy" !!
jay
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With the 1" baffles and braces, thiese things are "beefy" !!
jay
I'll bet they are. The triple 8" H-Frames I built weigh in at almost 100lbs each.
Mike
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Here are a pair of duals with the overhanging tops/bases. Think I mentioned it already, the grill frame rabbets didn't make it into the program for this run, I still need to cut them. The grill frames worked out nicely and will sit just a bit behind the front edge of the side panels.
You can use them as tables too ;0
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135719)
Grill frames worked out well and are a perfect match ... there is approx .125" vetically and horizonatlly afte the rabets ... a piece of velcro or an N52 magnet in each corner will easily hold these in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135720)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135721)
and from the side
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135722)
jay
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Jay, you are doing a fantastic job and making a lot of people happy!
You are bad thou :nono: I'm now rethinking what I want to do with my systems and how I can move gear around to accommodate some new subs.
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Thanks Greg
I'll plant a seed.... NX - Tremes with triple servo subs on either side.....
jay
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I can attest... that's one powerful seed -- I'm on track for exactly that setup, and yeah, it's pretty exciting :thumb:.
After becoming absolutely absorbed by the Wedgies, with Danny talking about the servos/NX-Tremes being a reference for a very long time, and with Jay doing a great job of turning these into some truly elegant designs, I'll change metaphors and say that the hook is set for me....
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I'll plant a seed.... NX - Tremes with triple servo subs on either side.....
jay
Here's another seed. I heard a system--I believe it was at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, but it could have been at the Capital Audio Fest--that had two triple stacks per side. Whoooeee! You wouldn't think the extra 3 per side would make that much difference, but I thought they lent an air of authority and lower-frequency ease that was quite compelling. If I get really ambitious . . .
But then I'd have to get two more A370PEQ's, etc., etc., etc.
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Thanks Greg
I'll plant a seed.... NX - Tremes with triple servo subs on either side.....
jay
Well, I'm really enjoying my custom super V's Ruben built for me but they sounded better than anything I've had in my great room before. Now they are in my new room which is how I was planning on leaving things. If I move my Super V's back to the great room I do have room for that seed you just planted. You are making this very difficult for me Jay :duh:
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Here are the rabbets cut fro the frill frames
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135875)
Then the grill frames fit nicxley
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135876)
The rabbets are just under 1" wide, grill frames are .75". After wrapping with cloth and using some velcor to secure in place, they should end up very close to flush. About 1/16" all around the frame
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135878)
jay
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136349)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136350)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136351)
-jay
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Have it yoooour waaaaaay.... :D
They all look great -- I could find a spot for each set.
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Amp boxes, 45'd corners and slots in sides.... will get to biscuits this weekend
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136656)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136657)
These are 5" deep.
They are $40/pr with sub flat packs, $50./pr if buying them seperately to help cover boxes/packing materails.
jay
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Jay,
YGPM. :D
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Biscuits are done
Easiest way to assemble is to use an end and a side (plus 2 biscuits) to form an "L"
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136811)
Add some glue (not shown) and push the two assemblies together
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136812)
Use some tape or clamps to secure and let set, voila
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136813)
Lightly sand and finish :thumb:
jay
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Well, I received my pair of 2-12 H-frame flat packs from Jay, and they are really, REALLY nice. Super clean cuts, beautiful MDF 1.5" thick side panels and top and bottom, and 1" thick baffle and front and rear braces. I also got grill frames and amp boxes, which are very cool. The design of the frame couldn't be better, nor could the material, the workmanship, or the packing (my pair arrived in perfect condition, without a single scratch, scuff, or chipped corner). And Jay couldn't have been more of a pleasure to deal with. I guess you can tell I'M happy!
I would take some pics and post them, but some rat bastard stole my digital camera outta my car, and I have only a dumb phone without a lens. I'm going to be selling one of my Vintage drumkits/snare drums (American 1920's-early 70's) to get another pair of the OB subs to stack on top of this pair, so if you might be interested, send me an email---ericjerde@gmail.com.
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Thanks for the feedback Eric , I am glad you are happy with your packs :thumb:
jay
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that pair of triiples pictured earlier in the thread is available but can't be shipped until next week.
It has the recessed grills front and back, .5" roiundvoers , over hanging bases, and can be had with either flush or overhanging tops ( if you are not into dealing with seams, go with the overhangs).
jay
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Just wanted to let everyone one know that I received my double 12's flat packs this week from Jay.
They were professionally packaged and they were in perfect condition. All I can say I WOW. The CNC machining
of the 1.5 mdf is amazing. I dry fitted them and they went together perfectly. I had the overhang on the tops and bottoms with the 0.5 roundover on the top and sides. These things are built like a tank. Very easy to put together and the attention to detail is excellent. Anyone who is looking at possibly getting a set of the double or triple OB sub flat packs from Jay Will NOT be disappointed.
Thanks Jay and Don for all your hard work. I couldn't be happier. Tim
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Just wanted to let everyone one know that I received my double 12's flat packs this week from Jay.
They were professionally packaged and they were in perfect condition. All I can say I WOW. The CNC machining
of the 1.5 mdf is amazing. I dry fitted them and they went together perfectly. I had the overhang on the tops and bottoms with the 0.5 roundover on the top and sides. These things are built like a tank. Very easy to put together and the attention to detail is excellent. Anyone who is looking at possibly getting a set of the double or triple OB sub flat packs from Jay Will NOT be disappointed.
Thanks Jay and Don for all your hard work. I couldn't be happier. Tim
Isn't the 1.5" MDF something else, Tim?! I wasn't prepared for how massive, dense, and non-resonant the side panels and top & bottom would be. Even the "only" 1" baffle and braces are much beefier than normal 3/4". And the machining is, as you said, pro quality. Excellent work Jay!
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Thanks guys, glad you are both happy :)
A couple notes, yup, that 1.5" and 1" is heavy which is the issue with high shipping costs. As I've mentioned, we aren't charging any extra for shipping, we get the qoute and tha's what you pay. There can also be a delay in shipping (as is right now with someone waiting for a pair) as Don has to find time to drive these across the border to ship, that ends up being a minimum 4 hr trip. Sometimes hard to schedule
The rouindovers are not CNC'd, I do this for folks after the initial packs are cut. I run a foam sanding block over everything quicly but at times there may be parts of the roundovers that need some final attention, they should be prety good though.
The rabbets for the grill frames in these first few packs were not cut by the CNC shop, this option did not make it into the program before your packs were cut. In the futre, the grill frecess will be CNC'd as well.
Even with that heavy 1.5 & 1" materail, people should line these with no rez.
Anxious to see some pictures when you guys are finished your builds
jay
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My amp cabinets arrived while I was on travel.
Will post some pictures once I get them built. :D
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My amp cabinets arrived while I was on travel.
Will post some pictures once I get them built. :D
Cool Rich :thumb:
jay
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Pictures from the first amp cabinet build.
Opened the box and unpacked the flat packs. Got the new batch of Titebond II glue and clamps from the earlier builds.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138603)
Next cabinet glued and clamped to dry. After it dries will glue up the second one.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138604)
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I love those step by step built.
Thanks for sharing
and anxious to see the remaining of the built.
Guy 13
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Guys,
we are making a trip on Friday to do some shipping, there is one pair of duals unspoken for right now. It's got the rabbets ffront and rear for the inlaid grills.
There are no roundovers on the cabinets panels right now, if someone wants them and needs roundovers, let me know ASAp and we can get them in Fridays's shipment.
Otherwise, they'll wait until next rip
jay
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Hey folks
We'll have a pair of duals and a pair of triples available shortly (should be cut late this week).
These will be available with either top (flush or overhanging) and we can also do the same with the base if someone wants a pair with narrower bases.
Prices will be $500 / pr for duals, $700 pr for triples $550/pr duals, $750/pr triples, boxes and shipping materials were much more costly than expected. These things are going to be heavy so there will be shipping out of Oroville WA (approx 70lbs x2 for duals, 90 lbs x 2 triples.)
Cabinets:
1.5" MDF side panels, tops, bases
1" MDF baffles & brases
Combination of dados / dowels for side panel/baffle/base/top aligment. easy toassemble :beer:
Driver mounting screw holes pre drilled
Round-over on rear side of driver cutouts
All CNC cut
I can add round-overs to the outer edge of the cabinet panels, top, & base if desired
If you are after the simpleest assembly/prep work, I recommend you consider going with the overhanging top/base. They leave yo uno seam to deal with, all that is required is to glue them up, give them a light sanding, and prime/paint
As seen later in this thread, there are options for inlaid grill frames @ $50 /pr or all 4 (front & back of each cabint) @ $80.
Also shown later in thread are some amp boxes that will fit the PEQA370 amps. These boxes are 45'd in the corners and each corner has a #20 biscuiit. Assembly is simple. A$40 /pr with a flat pack or $50 /pr alone (helps cover a box and packing).
jay
Jay,
Are these still the prices?
George
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Jay,
Are these still the prices?
George
Yes , they are correct George
And I believe the amp boxes will also fit the HX800's
jay
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Test fitted the Rythmik Audio A370PEQ amp for the Super-V's in the flat pack boxes from Jay today. Nice fit!
Will try my hand at DuraTex once it dries out after a few days of rain.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139179)
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Test fitted the Rythmik Audio A370PEQ amp for the Super-V's in the flat pack boxes from Jay today. Nice fit!
Will try my hand at DuraTex once it dries out after a few days of rain.
Never a doubt right Rich :lol:
Glad they work for you !!
jay
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Here's a triple with the overhaning tops,bases and a .5" roundover on all outside edges but the very bottom
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139623)
and with the grill frame inseted
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139624)
As mentioned earlier, if you aren't into dealing with a seam, these larger tops/bases are the way to go as they turn the seam into a transition leaving nothing to deal with :thumb:
jay
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Jay = :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Guy 13
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Jay,
Do all three 8" drivers face forward?
If the middle 8" is reversed, does it have holes in the baffle to feed the wiring through?
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Jay,
Do all three 8" drivers face forward?
If the middle 8" is reversed, does it have holes in the baffle to feed the wiring through?
Rich
These are triple 12's, haven't done any 8's yet. The center woofer is reversed and yes, there is a hole for wiring pass through, it's in the top left corner of the center woofer "chamber", just can't see it at that angle I guess
jay
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Got it. :thumb:
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not really an update but kind of comical....... I've posted a pic or two of our dog in the past who like to "supervise" in the shop... guess she was in there again today while I was working and then showed up at the back door needing to be cleaned up :o (no, she is not locked in the garage while I'm working, the backdoor is open and she comes and goes as she pleases)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140576)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140577)
jay
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Jay,
I'm pretty sure she is just making sure you are doing good work :lol: Looks like she really gets into her job :thumb:
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Jay,
your friendly looking dog is making sure nobody distract you
while you are making some wood art works.
Guy 13
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Hey folks!
Wanted to give a shout out to Jay, Don and Danny. For those who dont know me, I am the owner and operator of www.newrecordday.com. I have knocked out a number of reviews and wanted to accept the challenge of jumping into DIY. I purchased the H-Frame Packs along with the goodies from Danny and will eventually knock out a video review chatting about my impressions. Anyway - for now, I gotta say the work being done by Jay and company is second to none. If anyone is questioning the quality, workmanship, active communication or anything else - DONT! These guys are doing a fantastic job!
Ill shutup now and let the images speak for themselves.
PS: Jay noticed I am missing the veneer trim on the center support piece so ill make sure I fix that...
Who doesnt like CNC'ed MDF?!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140688)
Dry fit looks great! Like a nice puzzle!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140689)
First veneer piece went down like a champ! Knotty Hickory!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140690)
Veneer knocked out on the first sub!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140691)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140692)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140693)
Choosing a color for the baffle was tough but I decided white looked nice! This is just flat Rustoleum enamel with a roller.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140694)
Yup, that worked!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140695)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140696)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140697)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140698)
What we need now is to make that wood POP!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140699)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140700)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140701)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140702)
And now for the second sub...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140703)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140704)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140705)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140706)
Thanks!
Tools used:
Veneer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121774686397?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Router:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1-1-4-HP-Compact-Router-RT0701C/204247210?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25T-PowerTools%7c&gclid=CJy0_4mN_csCFYeUfgodNukADw&gclsrc=aw.ds
Router bit:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-1-2-in-3-Flute-Flush-Trim-Bit-DR44100/202585369
Wood Glue:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Titebond-128-fl-oz-Original-Wood-Glue-5066/100184746
Feel free to ask any questions! I am happy to help...
With the Veneer, I simply used wood glue on the back of the Veneer and on the substrate (mdf). Let it dry... get an iron and crank the heat. Get a paper bag to protect the veneer, press firmly and off you go... just keep moving from one side to the other to avoid bubbles etc.
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Looks great!! :thumb:
I just heard from Jay that you were doing a pair; I was excited to see how you would choose to finish them. I have a set on the way....
I've been running the duals in my own cabinets for awhile -- I look forward to your review, introducing them to folks who don't yet know about the wonders of open-baffle, servo-controlled bass.
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They are looking great Ron :thumb:
jay
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+1 Looking good Ron.
Speaking from recent experience (er, screw up), the wiring diagram is very helpful :duh:
Mike
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Ron, those are really nice looking.
I would have made then a little darker,
but that's me...
May I ask why you painted the inside white ????
Guy 13
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Those look great! I really like the white baffles. :thumb:
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Ron, those are really nice looking.
I would have made then a little darker,
but that's me...
May I ask why you painted the inside white ????
Guy 13
Thanks Guy,
I went with the white baffle because I like the look and I dont see it all that often.
Everyone else: Thanks for comments! I will be doing matching NX-Oticas as well.
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Great job Ron, those look fantastic. You aren't kidding regarding Jay and Don's work, outstanding!
I too felt that there weren't enough white baffles when I built these:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=30396)
Enjoy the bass, I know you will! :thumb:
Best,
Ed
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Ron, I'm not sure if I'm missing something in the photos, but it looks like you've still got some exposed MDF on the side panels and center braces. If those areas are still unfinished, you probably want to do something there to seal up the MDF for moisture prevention.
I also have really enjoyed lighter colors on speakers. The X-LS I've got right now are the original 'white shadow maple' from AV123, and the super-v cabinets I had (before they died) were clear birch ply. Very hip look with midcentury modern still trending as a look people are after. :thumb:
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Jonathon,
What happened to the Super-V's?
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Ron, I'm not sure if I'm missing something in the photos, but it looks like you've still got some exposed MDF on the side panels and center braces. If those areas are still unfinished, you probably want to do something there to seal up the MDF for moisture prevention.
I also have really enjoyed lighter colors on speakers. The X-LS I've got right now are the original 'white shadow maple' from AV123, and the super-v cabinets I had (before they died) were clear birch ply. Very hip look with midcentury modern still trending as a look people are after. :thumb:
Not quite done...
No-res will line the exposed side panels
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I'm going to do my baffles black because I'll be using grills, and the baffles showing through the cloth is not something I'll want to see (too cluttered looking---less is more). I'll also be putting a black felt cover on the backside of the woofer that faces the listener, so you won't see the driver either. I also don't want to see the front of the brace running across the width of the frame behind the grill cloth, breaking the rectangular frame into two square boxes and spoiling the elegant proportions of the frame, so it too will be painted. Black is beautiful, baby! But that's one of the great things about DIY---make yours how YOU want them.
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Your speakers look great Ron! I really like the knotty hickory veneer that you used. The white baffles are nice contrast. You are right Ed. Jay and Don's work is outstanding. Also, they are both very honest and straight forward in their business dealings with other people. I've been corresponding and working with Jay for a number of years on different speaker building project. Jay is a great guy and very passionate about speaker building and electronics. It has been a real pleasure knowing and working with Jay.
Thanks Ron for posting the nice pictures of your assembled H-Frame Flat Packs. Looking forward to seeing and reading your review.
Ron J
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Really appreciate all the feedback guy, love seeing the end results of these cabinets too , keep the pics coming guys :beer:
jay
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Rich, in my prior apartment (which had an amazing room for sound and was otherwise great until the current owner bought the building) the ceiling caved in on top of my system. This destroyed a pair of coaxes, and broke (yes, as in snapped the upper baffle in two and split the lower one a good ways down) one of the cabinets while taking significant chunks out of the other.
I salvaged the tweeters that somehow survived and sent them to Dave (P.I.) for a little experiment; I was curious if cryo treating the tweeters would improve the sound significantly. Dave happened to have a pair of super-v of his own, a cryo bucket, and some time to kill. :D So, I figured since the speakers were a loss anyway, if the tweeters died in the cryo tank it was nonetheless for a good cause.
I tossed the rest of the broken carcass into the dumpster. I swear for some reason, no matter how great the super-v is, that speaker is my personal DIY kryptonite.
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Bummer! Ugh!!!
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Been working on some sub cabinets to better match the NX-Ottica/NX-Treme cabinets. They turned out to be a bit more trouble than I had originally thought but they turned out pretty cool 8)
If we do another run (assuming insterest) at some point, there will be a few tweaks to the programming to prevent a few issues and eliminate some work on my end.
All have the inliad front/rear grill frames and are sloped at 3 degrees to match the NX series. I only used a 1" top plate to create an even 1" exposed panel on the sides/top when the grills are installed.
Here's a pair with 90 degree edges
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141357) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141363)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141359)
Another pair with all vertical edges rounded with a .5" radius. Top of the base is also rounded to match the NX's
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141360) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141362)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141364)
jay
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I gotta say Jay, making the top 1" so that it matches the sides when the grill frame is in place is just fantastic. Aesthetics separate the men from the boys, and you da man!
-
removed
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I gotta say Jay, making the top 1" so that it matches the sides when the grill frame is in place is just fantastic. Aesthetics separate the men from the boys, and you da man!
Agreed!
Jay,
Looks freaking amazing bro!
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Well guys,
The subs are playing and life is good!
Review to follow when I catch up!
-ill let the cat out of the bag now... they are bonkers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142008)
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The 2x12's look great!
The H-Frame servo subs sound great here! Never going back to box subs again.
-
The 2x12's look great!
The H-Frame servo subs sound great here! Never going back to box subs again.
+1 on all that :thumb:
jay
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Well guys,
The subs are playing and life is good!
Review to follow when I catch up!
-ill let the cat out of the bag now... they are bonkers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142008)
Ron,
+2 :green: I figured you'd like them. :thumb:
Looking forward to your review.
Mike
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144316)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144317)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144318)
I'll try and grab a couple more when the sun starts poking through the back door later this afternoon.
jay
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Jay,
Very nice. What color is that? At first it looked black but the closeups look more brown.
Mike
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Those look great, Jay!! Keep on doing your part to populate the audio world with the best bass to be had....
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Jay,
Very nice. What color is that? At first it looked black but the closeups look more brown.
Mike
Thanks Mike,
They are actually Midnight Purple, it is the deepsest , darkest purple.... looks piano black until light it, then the rich purple comes out, really cool
Thanks John :)
jay
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Wow, that is as wet looking as any paint I've ever seen!
-
Really, really nice. :thumb:
Nice job Jay.
Guy 13
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Love that color Jay, I too think that is the wettest looking paint I have ever seen :thumb:
Great work Jay!
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Darn it, Jay!
Stop it already. You know darned well I'm going to be in your area in August, and you know darned well I'm interested in OB subs, and you know darned well I have a weakness for really good deals in audio - especially when it is very well made by people I know and trust. I fear something horrible might happen to my bank account before too much longer.
Did I mention to you that it turns out I don't have to get a root canal? I saved $1100! Uh oh. Now what am I going to do with that EXTRA cash? Melody may never forgive you, you know?
Someone out there....please help me. Don't let me do this. :peek:
Perhaps, I'll sleep it off. Yeah. I'll just forget about this thread and its pretty pictures. G'night!
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Darn it, Jay!
Stop it already. You know darned well I'm going to be in your area in August, and you know darned well I'm interested in OB subs, and you know darned well I have a weakness for really good deals in audio - especially when it is very well made by people I know and trust. I fear something horrible might happen to my bank account before too much longer.
Did I mention to you that it turns out I don't have to get a root canal? I saved $1100! Uh oh. Now what am I going to do with that EXTRA cash? Melody may never forgive you, you know?
Someone out there....please help me. Don't let me do this. :peek:
Perhaps, I'll sleep it off. Yeah. I'll just forget about this thread and its pretty pictures. G'night!
Why do you need a pair of OB sub-woofers ? ? ?
Your wife will take them for her Karaoke singing ! :lol:
I am sure that's not what you want ! :(
Guy 13
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Jay,
Cool! And you can stack them if needed! :)
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Bonkers Jay! Love them! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Lookin' good, Jay. I'll bet that's an even prettier color up close and personal. I'm a sucker for purple.
You gonna grill 'em? Might look nice in something like brown or dark beige or even off white if you dig the contrast.
Dang, all these open baffle subs and I have yet to hear one...guess I'm in the driver's seat to change that, huh?
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Thanks for the comments guys.
Peter, yeah, I've got frames made for both front and rear but think I'm only going to go with the fronts for now. Using the standard inlaid grills for the flat pack I'm cutting.
I like your idea of the contrast... going to think on that for a bit.
You are in for such a treat when you get your subs up and running, there will be no going back
Michael, there'll be a pair with your name on them waiting for you :wink:
As I've mntioned before, looking forward to seeing you and Melody again soon :beer:
jay
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Thanks for the comments guys.
Peter, yeah, I've got frames made for both front and rear but think I'm only going to go with the fronts for now. Using the standard inlaid grills for the flat pack I'm cutting.
I like your idea of the contrast... going to think on that for a bit.
You are in for such a treat when you get your subs up and running, there will be no going back
Michael, there'll be a pair with your name on them waiting for you :wink:
As I've mntioned before, looking forward to seeing you and Melody again soon :beer:
jay
Hey Jay,
Michael reached out to me since he won't be too far from you here in Seattle. I don't have your triple OB subs but I do have my Super Vs and a decent listening room/guest house. I don't think I told Michael that you and I PM as well, he was very helpful with his observations of the Ida-8 and some other observations he's made with different amps. Michael, you would be able to tell me the difference in sound from Jay's new speakers and my Super V's. I would love to hear the ida-8 in my system and my wife Tracey would be happy to entertain if the ladies get bored with our obsession and want to do something else.
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Michael, you would be able to tell me the difference in sound from Jay's new speakers and my Super V's. I would love to hear the ida-8 in my system and my wife Tracey would be happy to entertain if the ladies get bored with our obsession and want to do something else.
Greg. upi are more than welcome to join us this year, I don' thae a guest house to put you guys up in, but we had a good time last year and I'm sure we will again thise year with lots of new stuff to listen to. don MAY have his new K&K monos and possibly a big pair of speakers , my system has changed dramatically since Michaels last visit too.
If the timing doesn't work, you're more than welcome anytime :)
jay
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A couple more pics after drivers, wiring, and no rez
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144464)
I meant to drill 1" holes in the side panels for a female spectron connector, was going to make a cable terminated with male ends to go between sub and amp box..... somehow, I forgot to drill the darn holes and I'm too scared to run a 1" bit thought the paint :duh:
I just left a lead off the back I can connect to the amp box... if I get brave, I'll drill the holes and add the extra female connectors on the cabinets. Still have to run out and pick up the amp boxes, used a couple of the boxes offered with the sub kits (ealier in this thread)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144460)
Tried to get a decent close up with the sun hitting the top edge of the cabinet this am, when the sun hits, there is suddenly all kinds of metallic that yo udon't see otherwise
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144461)
No sign of he cabinets tipping over backwards with all the drivers facing forwards... thankfully 8)
jay
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Beautiful!!
That color reminds me of one of my old bikes. Prettiest purple I'd seen. Anywhere from metallic purple to black depending on how the light hit it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144469)
Mike
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Jay,
Those look really nice, My Super V's are kind of opposite in that they look very black until you put a lot of light on them and then a hint of purple comes out with all the metallic.
I really do like the woofers all going in one direction, that's why even thou I don't like speaker grills I keep mine on. Otherwise I would just leave the grills off as I think it sound a bit better. BTW, I don't have any feet on them that are past the normal width side to side and front to back and they are rock solid on my carpet
-
What is the difference between driver orientation -- same direction vs. opposite, out of phase?? Any sonic differences? Pros and cons?
Well, with the one driver facing rearwards in either a 2 or 3 driver setup, yo uget a more even distribution of the weight. That last pair I built, I faced them all forwards out of curiosity. They are not going tip over on you unless someone plows into one, and in that case, the tower with the one reversed drive may also go over :cry:
Now, I wouldn't have expected any sonic difference but, using the same amps and the same drivers that were in another pair of triples I had been using, I've had to reduce the gain onthe amps by 3 or 4 clicks and the bass seems to be even cleaner/tighter with more ooomph behind it. I am pretty surprised at this and was not the only one to notice the change.
I've mentioned it to Danny and beleive he will try his next set like this to see if he gets similar results
jay
I have been mentioning the reverse directions and saying this was "not" the thing to do. You have drivers with their acoustic centers not together and facing different directions......always seemed silly to me.....just to get weight distribution centered. I am glad someone finally actually listened. My thoughts are confirmed. When I used two of them they were on an open baffle both the same way. My friend in Oregon has 3 on an open baffle all facing forward with great results. See here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142235.0 This way you can align the voice coils with your main speakers if you like as well. This is more important the higher you xover (like with wedgies, etc.).
Hey Ric,
yeah, I get all that, just wasn't sure at those frequencies (my subs are crossed at approx 70Hz), there would be any noticable benefit as the voice coil of the reversed driver is inches ,< 1', off the center of those on the forward facing woofers. The full wave at 70 Hz is roughtly 16'
In my particular case, the cabinet is sloped so I'm still not pefectly aligned, about 1.5" of from the top voice coil to the bottom one.
As mentined, I, as well as others, have noticed a difference
jay
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Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction. It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency. And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers. By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better. Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better. Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there. If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency? You have to be kidding!!!!!! Seriously bad!!!! You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes. Think about it. Try it!!!!!!!! I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never. And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong. And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.
-
Great. Now I need another pair of $$$ cabinets. :duh:
-
The opposing style servo subs work well up to the 150Hz cutoff I use them in the 6x12's. No need for new cabinets. I compared them to the 3x8 U frames and the H-frame opposing setup sound great.
YMMV.
-
YMWV (Your mileage will vary). Hal's system is nothing like anyone else's here nor will it ever be anything like what you are using. He has digital eq., op amp amps for each driver, wires all over the floor.....stuff everywhere and changing daily. The only true pure A/B was done by Jay....he got more output and better sound by having them all go forward (crossed over at 70Hz!!!!). Please, try this yourself. You are the only one that can know the truth. As more and more people do pure A/Bs in the same system we will all know the truth.
-
Unfortunately my woofer holes were rounded on opposing sides so I can't just flip one around. I'm still considering another pair of 16 Ohm drivers. Maybe Jay can cut me 6 individual cubes. :wink: Anyone want a pair of dual cabinets?
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Great. Now I need another pair of $$$ cabinets. :duh:
My 3x8 H-Frames with the center driver reversed sound awfully good also and there were a lot of folks at LASF last year that thought so as well. I could flip the center driver around and run some new wiring (I wouldn't mess with the original wiring) so they would all be in phase then see what it sounds like. That will have to wait until I have some spare time though.
If I were to move the Wedgies far enough back so that the voice coils physically aligned with the sub drivers this would put the the bottom LGK 1/2" above the top of the sub cabinet. It seems this would cause a floor bounce effect with the top of the sub cabinet acting as the floor. To prevent this type of reflection I line the front of the Wedgies up with the front of the sub cabinet.
Am I incorrect in my thinking about a floor bounce effect? If not, which would be more detrimental to the sound floor bounce reflections or not having the drivers physically aligned?
Mike
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I never had any issues or complaints about the bass with either my duals or previous triples with one driver reversed, they sound fantastic... if you go read any of my build threads on the subs, i was always MORE than thrilled.I'm just saying, having made this pair with all 3 facing in the same dircetion, I do hear an improvement
I definitely wouldn't be rushing out to buy or build new cabinets
jay
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Nevermind.
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Mike, Just put some thick felt on the top of the woof/sub so the mid/highs do not bounce off it. I have been doing this for years. Please try physical voice coil alignment once you have all the woofs going forward.
Is good enough actually good enough? Better is better. Do you want better, tighter fuller bass, better lower midrange purity and fullness and better integration with the mids and highs? If you do, you will try these things. If you are satisfied with it the way it is, then you are not an audiophile.....he he....My definition of an audiophile is: "Someone who is never satisfied with his stereo". I mean, why are you reading this instead of listening?.....it's because you want better sound......your an addict....he he. Well, this is one good fix.....and it is not expensive.
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Unfortunately my woofer holes were rounded on opposing sides so I can't just flip one around.
Similar issue here. I'd need new cabinets just to flip the woofer.
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Where can you get thick felt? The only thing I have been able to find around here is the thin stuff they sell in the fabric stores.
Mike
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I'm not really complaining about my current performance. They still sound amazing. A little more impact would be nice. 2 more drivers would be nice. As Ric alluded to, it never ends. :green:
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Desire may never end but funds certainly do. My mother always said I had champain taste on a beer budget :beer:
Mike
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Just use two or three layers of the wool felt you can get in a fabric store.....works fine.
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YMWV (Your mileage will vary). Hal's system is nothing like anyone else's here nor will it ever be anything like what you are using. He has digital eq., op amp amps for each driver, wires all over the floor.....stuff everywhere and changing daily. The only true pure A/B was done by Jay....he got more output and better sound by having them all go forward (crossed over at 70Hz!!!!). Please, try this yourself. You are the only one that can know the truth. As more and more people do pure A/Bs in the same system we will all know the truth.
Do not discount the sound of a system you have never heard. Nothing changes daily in regard to the servo sub array running up to 150Hz.
Build a DC coupled, balanced input amp, with no Zobel or Thiele network needed for stability directly driving a planar driver. To bad most folks will never try it, when it is a great sounding match.
And for DSP, you have never heard this unit using balanced connection to the HX800 amps. Beats any passive crossover I have heard, and I have listened to a large number of them in 40 years of this hobby.
Good luck.
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Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction. It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency. And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers. By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better. Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better. Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there. If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency? You have to be kidding!!!!!! Seriously bad!!!! You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes. Think about it. Try it!!!!!!!! I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never. And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong. And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.
Rick,
Shouldn't you be spouting all your (absolute facts) on your own circle? Oh, that's right you don't have your own circle. So, what speakers do you manufacture again? I own Super V's, do they sound good? Yes, very good. Would they sound better with both woofers facing one direction? Maybe, would they sound better if you designed them rather that Danny? Not a chance it hell is my guess. But the fact is, I haven't heard any of your speakers so I don't really know. Kind of like you don't really know what Hal's speakers sound like, I don't either. I just don't understand how you get on a circle that someone else pays for and knock his design desicisions. I mean, what gives you the right to do such a thing. This is his circle and his business and their's nothing that annoys me more that someone trash talking someone Else's lively hood.
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Hal, I don't discount your system, I bet it is wonderful. But you have not done a proper A/B of the drivers in both configurations and using them in the way ALL others would be using them....this is my point. If you turned around every other driver and had them all facing forward you could listen and tell us what you hear on your system. I bet you would be mind blown at how much better they would be.........then if you made a super dead, super braced open baffle or U-frame with all 6 on them I bet it would be even better. You cannot know anything unless you experiment. And the experiment has to be done very cleanly.....everything the same each time, etc.
Greg, I am not "trash talking" anything. I am offering suggestions based on years of listening.....and now backed up by one of the GR Research users. People take things so personally. This is not personal. Danny decided long ago that his open baffle servo woofs would face in both directions because someone else said it was a cool idea. He did not listen each way and decide for himself....we all do this. I have done this tons of times. We are all.....always learning. We cannot try everything nor do we have the time nor inclination. Personally, I am always open to suggestions. I know I know nothing. We are a single grain of sand compared to the knowledge of the universe. I offer my ideas to help people get better sound. So far, everyone who has tried my ideas has found them to be valid. Danny cannot know everything nor try everything. Hopefully, he is open to bettering his products....hopefully, he is listening to what I say with an open mind and heart and not taking what I say personally. Danny is wonderful, and a wonderful designer.....but he is human, just like you and me....so always learning. Greg, want to learn something? Turn around the driver facing backwards....then time align them with the coax....and get back to us. You cannot learn unless you try something new. My ideas are not mine. I did not invent anything here. I just have information based on direct experience that I am sharing that hopefully will help people get better sound. I hope you share information that helps people. This is how we all grow.....in the Love together.
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I admit to feeling conflicted. I understand, sympathize with, and share the impulses of Hal and Greg, while at the same time thinking Ric's answer is a good one. But I always want to know the "why" of something. I don't know for a fact that Danny automatically put the drivers in his H-frame reversed, without trying them both facing forward, and I don't know for a fact that they sound better---or even different---so facing. The fact that Ric does, does not make it a "fact" just because he says so. He may think it does because he thinks it should, ya know? That's not unheard of in audiophilia ;-).
My drivers are still in W-frames (I haven't yet built the great H-frames I got from Jay---can't wait!), in which the drivers MUST face the way they do, and which no less a technical expert than Seigfried Linkwitz says has resulting sonically-relevant advantages. Yet with all Seigfried's knowledge, Danny designed a better H-frame than did SL, didn't he? And better full-range speakers too, in the opinion of many here. That's because Danny has a designer's mind and an audiophile's ear, a rare combination.
Danny has on occasion corrected Ric on a technical matter, explaining why he is "wrong" in one of his design elements. While I appreciate and admire a highly-developed ear, an ear informed by technical knowledge---if the ear is not thereby made deaf by preconceived notions and/or conclusions---is a very powerful design instrument. No disrespect intended, Ric! You are the ultimate audiophile, and I benefit greatly from your no-holds barred, no-compromise, extreme-even endeavors at achieving excellence in music reproduction---very noble endeavors in my book. I wince when I see or hear Hi-Fi referred to as a "hobby". Music and it's reproduction means far too much to me to use that belittling and demeaning term in relation to Mankind's most sacred and important art form. I think that we all agree on, ay?
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One thing to understand is the mind of a designer. Here's an example -- Danny has already stated that one of the reasons he reversed the woofers is for weight distribution. Now imagine the pain and sorrow and repercussions of a young child tipping over a GR Research subwoofer onto himself or another child due to inadequate weight distribution. And to compensate for uneven weight distribution may require a higher cost, an "unreasonable aesthetic" or a more difficult DIY design merely for a slightly better sound, if what Ric is saying is true.
My point is that there's lots of other non-sonic considerations that a designer isn't gonna use a forum to attempt to explain because it sets himself up for another round of second guessing by audiophiles who aren't proficient in speaker design, manufacturing and marketing.
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The W frame will be a good test against the other two cabinet styles.
It keeps the driver centers aligned and has the force cancelling effect. Nice that it is also shorter than the other two cabinets as well.
Another way is simply taking the Super-V's and compare to two stacked 1x12's both facing forward as the bass section. That is also a direct AB comparison.
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Ric if you go back and read post 109 (your post) on the previous page, if that isn't bad mouthing Danny's designs, I don't know what is. Maybe it wasn't intended to come across like that, but I'd say it did. There are a lot of very happy customers out there with the designs you mentined, don't think I've ever heard a complaint about any of them.
That being said, I do agree with you that the only way for people to know what the difference is, is to actually try, without doing so, it's hard to say what a person will hear or feel.
As I mentioned, I was never the slightest bit disappointed in either the duals or triples with a reversed driver, my reason for doing the latest build with all 3 drivers facing forward was for appearence and also because I had a few people ask me just how unbalanced the cabinets would be if they were to have the drivers all face forwards... I didn't really know so I tried it.
There is a difference in stability, you can tell they are more rear weighted if you push on them... will they tip over, no not unless a deliberate attempt is made to tip them... the same could happen with a standard version.
I was surprised when I noticed some sonic differences using the same 6 drivers and same amps with the settins untouched, I had simpoly swapped the drivers from one pair of cabinets to the other
Saying people will be blown away by the sonic differences is a huge exaggeration IMO. Do I hear a difference, yeah, a bit more impact/focus and an icrease in output (I had to reduce the gain on each A370 by 3 or 4 clicks). Am I blown away, no but I will say I'm pleased with the unexpected result
Rich, would be cool for you to try a couple of your modules with both facing forwards as you mentined, wouild love to know results
jay
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Jay,
Looking at rewiring the servo subs, so the A/B would be doable.
And as far as the 6x12 H frames, there are two pairs I know of made by Ruben. Both are running last I heard. The second are mated to the BG FS880's that Danny designed mods for.
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Actually, Hal has half his drivers reversed.....so putting them all forward will really make a more noticeable difference than what you heard....assuming the same use. Others, that cross over higher will also hear much more difference. The fact that you are crossing over at 70 and it makes a noticeable improvement means that crossing over higher will really make a serious difference. And again if they physically align voice coils with phase set to 0 degrees there will be more difference and again more difference if they use an open or U-baffle. But these are just words. The only one that can know is you.
One of the reasons I sometimes use exaggeration is to put a fire in your arse. Most people won't do anything unless you shout at them and take them to church. Really, it is up to you to pursue better sound or not. Some have the finances, some don't. Some have the desire, some don't. Some like to experiment, some don't. Some people will take what I say personally. Some just want to argue and make drama. I want to help people get better sound. I have no financial stake in whether or not you have better sound.
You say reversing one woofer out of three makes a noticeable difference crossing over at 70hz......I say, this is just the beginning. I hope some more people will try reversing, physically time aligning and open/U-baffles and hear for themselves and report back. I have no more to say on the matter. It is now up to you all. You either drink the water nor not. Bless us all. The water is yummy!
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Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction. It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency. And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers. By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better. Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better. Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there. If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency? You have to be kidding!!!!!! Seriously bad!!!! You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes. Think about it. Try it!!!!!!!! I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never. And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong. And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.
Actually the complete opposite is true. You never want to use them on a flat baffle especially one no larger than the size of the woofers themselves. By doing this you have no real front to back wave separation. So you are reducing your output in the lower ranges considerably. You also create a peak in the response in relation to the baffle size. And the woofers can much more easily reach full X-max as there is zero additional loading of the drivers.
Also to create a cavity resonance within the space you'll need to produce a wave length short enough to propagate within the 13" square space. That would be wavelengths higher than 1kHz or so. They don't play that high.
Even if you look at the H frame as a port the tuning frequency is very high. It would probably fall in the 500 to 600Hz range.
So your concerns are not really valid in this application and you're killing your bass response by the use of the flat baffle.
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Danny,
I had two of your servo woofs on an 18 inch wide 2.25 inch thick baffle and measured flat at 20 hz in my room. How low do I need? I heard nor measured any peaks. Obviously, you have more extreme low frequency output and more headroom in an H-frame. Depends on the size of the room and how loud you listen whether or not you would ever reach the limit. If you use U-Frames then you are more than half way there....and also if you needed more output then use more woofs.
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There also seems to be some confusion here regarding time alignment. There is physically aligned and then there is acoustically aligned.
Just because something is physically aligned does not mean it is time aligned. The reason being is that other things in the signal path cause a shift in phase or time delay. So you can have a pair of drivers physically aligned but the use of a first order crossover can put them 180 degrees out of phase at the crossover point.
And if you have a passive crossover on your upper set of drivers it doesn't matter weather your subs are physically aligned or not. The inductor inline with your mid-bass driver caused a big shift in phase. And it doesn't matter whether it is a Neo 10 or a woofer. The inductor will cause a lag. So if you want to ignore the phase control on the servo amp and align the acoustic output then you might find that the subs need to be four feet or more behind the plane of the speakers to time align them at the crossover point. The distance will depend on how high the crossover point is. Or you might need to move them out in front of your main speakers.
Fortunately the servo plate amp has a phase control that will allow them to be blended from almost any location.
Now as for the woofer facing one way or another and whether they are time aligned or not and what difference it will make. With one woofer flipped the amount of offset of the voice coil at 20Hz is less 1/100th of the wave length. So the phase rotation is less than 1% on a low frequency note. Think you can hear that? The amount of phase rotation goes up with frequency but we are still talking about ranges from 1% to 8% of phase rotation. That is laughable compared to the amount of time delay, peaks, and cancellation you get from the room reflections of those low frequency waves. The reflection can be anywhere from 0 to 180 degree out of phase and everywhere in between.
So chances are that you are more likely to make a greater difference by moving your subs back or forward 6" to a foot than you are trying to keep the voice coils aligned.
Now technically it can make a difference if the voice coils are aligned. It will keep them more in phase for sure, but keep some prospective. Let's say you have a mid and a tweeter that is in perfect time alignment at a given height or distance between the two of them. Move your seating height up 6" and now they are no longer in perfect phase. One arrives in time before the other. You are creating 1% to 8% of phase rotation or more and in a MUCH more sensitive range. And I can tell you for certain that most mid to tweeter combos are very rarely in perfect time alignment at the typically measured tweeter axis or at an on axis response. There is very often 10 to 20 degrees of phase rotation going on between the drivers.
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Actually the complete opposite is true. You never want to use them on a flat baffle especially one no larger than the size of the woofers themselves. By doing this you have no real front to back wave separation. So you are reducing your output in the lower ranges considerably. You also create a peak in the response in relation to the baffle size. And the woofers can much more easily reach full X-max as there is zero additional loading of the drivers.
Also to create a cavity resonance within the space you'll need to produce a wave length short enough to propagate within the 13" square space. That would be wavelengths higher than 1kHz or so. They don't play that high.
Even if you look at the H frame as a port the tuning frequency is very high. It would probably fall in the 500 to 600Hz range.
So your concerns are not really valid in this application and you're killing your bass response by the use of the flat baffle.
Here we have a perfect example of something significant. I have absolutely no doubt, yes, even without hearing it, that the difference in sound between mounting the drivers on a flat baffle rather than in an H-frame is far, far greater than the difference between having all drivers facing forward. The former will create a huge disadvantage (against the flat baffle), the latter a perhaps slight advantage (in favor of it). If you want to use a flat baffle, it obviously needs to be of sufficient width to achieve the same front-to-back distance between driver centers (to prevent opposing polarity cancellation) as is achieved in the 16"W X 14"D H-frame. The flat baffle (even at 2-1/4" thick) will then require robust bracing to equal the non-resonance achieved in the frame by nature of it's construction. You gotta first get the basics correct before you sweat the details.
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Danny,
I had two of your servo woofs on an 18 inch wide 2.25 inch thick baffle and measured flat at 20 hz in my room. How low do I need? I heard nor measured any peaks. Obviously, you have more extreme low frequency output and more headroom in an H-frame. Depends on the size of the room and how loud you listen whether or not you would ever reach the limit. If you use U-Frames then you are more than half way there....and also if you needed more output then use more woofs.
Yes, they will still try to maintain a flat response. That is what the servo control system does. But if you try to push them to higher SPL levels you'll run out of X-Max real quick. And the system is probably using a lot more of its headroom trying to control the overshoot. So it is having to slam on the electrical brakes pretty hard to keep control. You're probably down to half or a third of the output you would have with a H frame in the first octave or two.
Take away the servo control and you will no longer maintain a flat response, or have any low end output, plus bottom out the woofers a lot more easily.
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Hello Everyone,
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Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to post a picture of my system with a pair of Jay's flat pack dual OB subs. I have an old (1966) set of Altec Valencias in which Danny helped me upgrade the x-overs. I am running first generation Dodd Audio 120 monos and a Dodd mid pre. They sound great with the new subs. Thanks To Jay and Danny for all the help.
Fliv
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146048)
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Nice amps Fliv.
You might want to try pulling those woofers further out into the room. You should get a lot better results that way. Some room treatment will go a long way too.
Thanks for posting the pic.
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Looks great Fliv :thumb:
You did a super job of capturing the retro look with the subs, love the inlaid grills
jay
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It's hard to tell how far from the wall behind them the subs are. Three feet is good, five feet even better, if the room length allows it. You're right Jay, the inset grills give subs the 50's-60's look. Fliv, the H-frames look stained, but it must be paint. They could be veneered, but with the roundovers that would be pretty hard to do!
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Guys,
The H frames are painted. I sprayed them with several coats of an antique brown followed by 4-5 coats of poly. I wanted them to blend in with the Altecs as good as possible. You are right that I should pull them out from the wall a little further but my space is limited. I'd say they about two feet right know. I will experiment with pulling them out a little further and leaving the Altecs in place. Danny is right. My next project with the room is to make some acoustic panels (Roxul) for a little room treatment. I hope to order the materials within the next few weeks.
Thanks for the suggestions guys.
Fliv
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A six pack of Owens-Corning Semi-Rigid 703 2" fiberglass panels is under a hundred bucks. That's what all the room acoustics companies use. Just wrap the 2' x 4' panels in acoustically transparent material, and put one at each of the two first-reflection points on the side walls, on the wall behind each speaker, and a couple behind the listening position. Money well spent!
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I have had very good success with these products from GIK
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/knauf-rigid-fiberglass-3-lb/
And after trying the Corning stuff, I liked working with Knauf better.
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Sent Steve and Greg over at Sound Insight / GT Audio a set of dual H-framess for the Capitol City Audio fest, here's a little blurb on them
https://youtu.be/3nT_H_IEOVo
Maybe Steve or Greg will jump in with some pics :)
jay
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Sent Steve and Greg over at Sound Insight / GT Audio a set of dual H-framess for the Capitol City Audio fest, here's a little blurb on them
https://youtu.be/3nT_H_IEOVo
Maybe Steve or Greg will juimp in with some pics :)
jay
Just saw this on Stereophile:
(http://cdn.stereophile.com/images/CAF2016-GTAudio-600.jpg)
On sale for $4800 a pair for the OB subs!!!??? YIKES!!
George
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Yes, Sound Insight SI-200, 2x12" H-Frame Servo Subs with A370PEQ amps in the GT Audioworks room.
They are being sold for $6000.00/pair built by Sound Insight. The show price was $4800/pair.
I built my own.
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Yes, Sound Insight SI-200, 2x12" H-Frame Servo Subs with A370PEQ amps in the GT Audioworks room.
They are being sold for $6000.00/pair built by Sound Insight. The show price was $4800/pair.
I built my own.
And who is Sound Insight?
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http://www.sound-insight.com/index.html
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Based on the actual quality of bass that these subs produce, they SHOULD sell for that much. They kick the crap put of every other bass system out there. Of course we are lucky that we can get world class performance for peanuts....
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Based on the actual quality of bass that these subs produce, they SHOULD sell for that much. They kick the crap put of every other bass system out there. Of course we are lucky that we can get world class performance for peanuts....
+10 Tyson
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Based on the actual quality of bass that these subs produce, they SHOULD sell for that much. They kick the crap put of every other bass system out there. Of course we are lucky that we can get world class performance for peanuts....
Agree on quality of the bass.
Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.
George
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Agree on quality of the bass.
Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.
George
A bit unussal here as "you" know the prices of the parts etc, with other high end subs, you wouldn't be privy to that information, I'd bet no other sub in this class (are there any? :lol:) that is sold as a finished product is sold with any less of a margin, probably just the opposite actually
He's got the cost of the components (including all the little stuff), the flat packs, shipping on both, his build time, finishing, supplies etc, it adds up fast
We'll be offering some finished sets in an automotove finish up here and they wont be far off the price above , although they'll be in Cdn $...
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Agree on quality of the bass.
Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.
George
+1
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Agree on quality of the bass.
Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.
George
If you add up the cost of all the parts and materials (flatpacks, drivers, amps, No-Rez, threaded inserts, spikes, glue, sandpaper, wiring, Neutrik connectors, etc.) plus shipping to get everything to you you are going to be looking at close to $3k. And that is for unfinished cabinets. You still have to finish them. With this in mind, $6k for finished speakers and amp boxes is not even double the cost of materials; $4,800 is very good for having somebody do all the work for you.
Even $6k is a very good deal compared to what speakers of this caliber would cost from a dealer if they had a mainstream headbadge.
Of course, the more of the work you can do yourself, the lower the cost. Such are the rewards of DIY.
Mike
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If you add up the cost of all the parts and materials (flatpacks, drivers, amps, No-Rez, threaded inserts, spikes, glue, sandpaper, wiring, Neutrik connectors, etc.) plus shipping to get everything to you you are going to be looking at close to $3k. And that is for unfinished cabinets. You still have to finish them. With this in mind, $6k for finished speakers and amp boxes is not even double the cost of materials; $4,800 is very good for having somebody do all the work for you.
Even $6k is a very good deal compared to what speakers of this caliber would cost from a dealer if they had a mainstream headbadge.
Of course, the more of the work you can do yourself, the lower the cost. Such are the rewards of DIY.
Mike
If those numbers are correct, I agree and change my opinion.
I had in my head that all the major parts (flat pack, amps, drivers) could be had for south of $2k.
George
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If those numbers are correct, I agree and change my opinion.
I had in my head that all the major parts (flat pack, amps, drivers) could be had for south of $2k.
George
Mike's numbers are spot on, he said what i was trying to say, he just was a bit more clear :lol:
It adds up fast !!
jay
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For parts and flatpack I think I spent around $2200. (Plus an additional $300 in tools!) Considering the labor of assembling, sanding and painting, and then the end performance I agree. I could totally see retail price with a premium finish would be around $10K.
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DIY is the way to go! The cabinets don't look to be that hard to build. You don't have to deal with crossovers because of the plate amps. MDF is cheap. If you wanted a premium finish without investing the work, you could have them painted professionally at an auto body repair specialist.
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DIY is the way to go! The cabinets don't look to be that hard to build. You don't have to deal with crossovers because of the plate amps. MDF is cheap. If you wanted a premium finish without investing the work, you could have them painted professionally at an auto body repair specialist.
I completely agree ratacat but some people have more money than time, so for them pre-made is the way to go.
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Doing a finished pair of cabinets for a fellow. He is going with the rear grills and wanted a way of having the wiring exit the cabinets without interferring with the rear grills. He did not want to use a 4 pole panel connector on the cabinets ....
So just before the wiring bundle gets to the grill, I created a little passage that will allow 2 twisted pairs of the solid core 16ga wire to pass through. Takes a bit of mucking around to get the pairs through, but once they are both in, it's actually a good fit and once the no rez is in place, the wiring will be hidden away
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147534)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147535)
jay
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Doing a finished pair of cabinets for a fellow. He is going with the rear grills and wanted a way of having the wiring exit the cabinets without interferring with the rear grills. He did not want to use a 4 pole panel connector on the cabinets ....
So just before the wiring bundle gets to the grill, I created a little passage that will allow 2 twisted pairs of the solid core 16ga wire to pass through. Takes a bit of mucking around to get the pairs through, but once they are both in, it's actually a good fit and once the no rez is in place, the wiring will be hidden away
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147534)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147535)
jay
The old drill one hole to meet up with the other hole trick :thumb: Used in the alarm industry for many years with varying results, depending on how deep you have to go and how big of a hole you can drill. Nicely done Jay!
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Hey Jay, is that pair going to be flush edges top and bottom? I have been considering that and would like to see how they look.
Best,
Ed
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Is it possible to put the amp inside or it wouldn't fit?
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Is it possible to put the amp inside or it wouldn't fit?
The amp won't fit and you need to get to them to dial them in. They are not bad looking at all and in my case people seem interested in what they do so it's kind of fun. PeterJ has a thread going where he is hiding the amps in a unique and cool design but the skies the limit as to what is possible.
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Hey Jay, is that pair going to be flush edges top and bottom? I have been considering that and would like to see how they look.
Best,
Ed
Yup, they'll be flush top and bottom, I'll lpost pics as progress is made
jay
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Is it possible to put the amp inside or it wouldn't fit?
As Greg said, I too get a lot of interest in the plate amps, people are curious . Really, if a person wanted, they could drop the boxes right up on top of the subs and proudly display them :)
Sorry, haven't switch my amps over to the new Midnight Purple boxes but here is one plopped on top of one of Don's old Teal triples, gotta get those amps swapped
over
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147575)
jay
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Because these flat packs use screws to secure and "clamp" the base ( eliminates the need for 4 long clamps reaching from end to end), I build them upsaide down. I don't glue the side panels and baffle down to the top (origninally upside down on the bottom).
Once you get the baffle and braces glued into the sde panels (this assembly sits on the dowels in the inverted top), you can glue on the base and secure with screws. Clamp with a couple clamps across the braces and one front to back on the braces, let it set like that for an hour or 2.
Flip it over and pop the lid off. Apply your glue and clamp the lid downn onto the dowels, I always let it set like this overnight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147630)
Ed, here are a cou0ple shots of the first cabinet after it's been unclamped, flush trimmed, sealed on exposed cut edges, and a light sanding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147628)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147629)
jay
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Thanks for that Jay, much appreciated. I like it :thumb:, I think that is the direction I am going to go. What type of finish will you go with?
Best,
Ed
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Thanks for that Jay, much appreciated. I like it :thumb:, I think that is the direction I am going to go. What type of finish will you go with?
Best,
Ed
These are going to have a .5" roundover added to the front vertical edges. They'll be black inside (bafles and side panels). The cabinets themselves will be veneered in India Apple wood top coated in stain lacquer to match the persons current speakers, should be really cool :thumb:
jay
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These are going to have a .5" roundover added to the front vertical edges. They'll be black inside (bafles and side panels). The cabinets themselves will be veneered in India Apple wood top coated in stain lacquer to match the persons current speakers, should be really cool :thumb:
jay
There's a wood I've never heard of, so I Googled...gotta love Google images! Also known as Timeo...pretty stuff. Are the other speakers same? Are you doing the finishing? You know final photos are required assuming you can, of course
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Hey Peter
I have nicknamed Google " The Oracle".... " ask the Oracle" is becoming a common phras around here :lol:
Some places seem to call it Timeo, some India Apple Wood, it does look like nice stuff and the person's speakers are finished in the same. Getting a good match will be key, from picutres we've looked at, the color does seem to vary . Hoping the supplier (still undecided) will work with us to try and get as close as possible.
I'm only doing the cabinet/prep work this time, passing ths veneering off to a pro in town I feel I'm almost to the point where I could have done this one but a couple more personal projects first.
Yes, the person is fine with me posting pictures, there'll be some finished pic when we get there.... who knows, maybe we'll get a pic of the customers system, very nice :)
jay
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Hey Peter
I have nicknamed Google " The Oracle".... " ask the Oracle" is becoming a common phras around here :lol:
Some places seem to call it Timeo, some India Apple Wood, it does look like nice stuff and the person's speakers are finished in the same. Getting a good match will be key, from picutres we've looked at, the color does seem to vary . Hoping the supplier (still undecided) will work with us to try and get as close as possible.
I'm only doing the cabinet/prep work this time, passing ths veneering off to a pro in town I feel I'm almost to the point where I could have done this one but a couple more personal projects first.
Yes, the person is fine with me posting pictures, there'll be some finished pic when we get there.... who knows, maybe we'll get a pic of the customers system, very nice :)
jay
Jay,
Definitely send the supplier the most accurate pictures you can get of the current speakers, an physical sample would be even better if there are leftover pieces from the original project.
Don't expect anything more than close though. Each tree is different. The only way to get a perfect match is to buy enough sequentially matched pieces for the entire project at one time.
That being said, again, the better the sample you can provide to the supplier the better the chances they can find a close match in their stock.
Mike
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Thanks Mike, appreciate the input. We're trying to get something matched up now
Here's a couple more pics..
A couple rounds of block sanding, roundovers on front vetical edges cut and all magnet holes drilled.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147857)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147858)
I'll get the amp boxes glued up tomorrow
jay
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Here are a few more pics of another build, these will be a set of triples with the large / overhanging tops and bases with .5" roundovers on all outside edges. The fellow wants all drivers facing forwards and front/rear grill frames.
A front and rear pic of one of the baffles showing all pre-drilled driver mounting holes and rouindovers all on rear
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148007)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148008)
Here are a couple shots of the base with roundovers, installed inserts for spikes (Danny's 8mm spikes fit these), and the counter sunk screw holes that eliminate the need for long clamps during glue up.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148009)
One of the other side with locating dowels for the side panels
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148010)
A few of the cabinet all dry fit
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148011)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148012)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148013)
Will get the other cabinet dry fit tomorrow and then get the 4 grill frames trimmed out
jay
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148026)
Very nice...I thought this was Tineo...with an N not a M?
Regardless, i like the wood and used it myself.
there is so much variation in the wood samples.
Getting a 'match' is very difficult.
look at my avatar to see variations
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Very nice...I thought this was Tineo...with an N not a M?
Regardless, i like the wood and used it myself.
there is so much variation in the wood samples.
Getting a 'match' is very difficult.
look at my avatar to see variations
Yes, it is Tineo... the way my fingers work we were lucky to get an "m" :lol:
He's hoping for a decent match especailly in regards to colour. He sent in pics of his existing cabinets then was sent a few pics of the sheets they selected/suggested and are now sending. fingers crossed !
jay
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Yes, it is Tineo... the way my fingers work we were lucky to get an "m" :lol:
He's hoping for a decent match especailly in regards to colour. He sent in pics of his existing cabinets then was sent a few pics of the sheets they selected/suggested and are now sending. fingers crossed !
jay
Jay,
What source do you use for your veneer? My main source is Oakwood Veneer Co.
Mike
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Yup, same place
jay
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In regards to the triple currently under construction (or a double, or quad for that matter), what would happen if you pushed the baffle to the front of the "box", so that the speaker looked like a traditional package? This assumes you would have all drivers facing forward. Would this give you equivalent performance?
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In regards to the triple currently under construction (or a double, or quad for that matter), what would happen if you pushed the baffle to the front of the "box", so that the speaker looked like a traditional package? This assumes you would have all drivers facing forward. Would this give you equivalent performance?
Then it puts a lot of pressure on the side panels that are now much deeper. So they have to be much beefier. It also limits how high they can play before the upper range overtones create a resonance in that cavity. It cuts the upper range down to less than half.
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In regards to the triple currently under construction (or a double, or quad for that matter), what would happen if you pushed the baffle to the front of the "box", so that the speaker looked like a traditional package? This assumes you would have all drivers facing forward. Would this give you equivalent performance?
If you get the optional inset grill frames, with grill cloth hiding the woofers the OB Subs DO look like a traditional package. Having the baffles in the middle of the frame is a big part of the OB design---you don't want to change that.
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If you get the optional inset grill frames, with grill cloth hiding the woofers the OB Subs DO look like a traditional package. Having the baffles in the middle of the frame is a big part of the OB design---you don't want to change that.
The inset grills are popular (thanks Eric :beer:) I don't think a pair has gone out yet without grills. We've got the duals with either both front/rear or just fronts
jay
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Jay Flat packs is one of the best i ever i put together,but i have to warn you,this thing is heavy which is a good thing when is come to subwoofers. :thumb: :thumb:
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Then it puts a lot of pressure on the side panels that are now much deeper. So they have to be much beefier. It also limits how high they can play before the upper range overtones create a resonance in that cavity. It cuts the upper range down to less than half.
Not necessarily. If you took the Hframe and just cut off the front at the baffle, you wouldn't be extending the sides, so no additional pressure, nor does the cavity change. How much would the rigidity suffer at that point? And what does the front half of the frame contribute to the sound of forward firing woofers?
Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the design; consider this as a thought exercise.
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If you get the optional inset grill frames, with grill cloth hiding the woofers the OB Subs DO look like a traditional package. Having the baffles in the middle of the frame is a big part of the OB design---you don't want to change that.
If you are using push pull woofers, I agree. But if both woofers are firing forward.....
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Not necessarily. If you took the Hframe and just cut off the front at the baffle, you wouldn't be extending the sides, so no additional pressure, nor does the cavity change. How much would the rigidity suffer at that point? And what does the front half of the frame contribute to the sound of forward firing woofers?
Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the design; consider this as a thought exercise.
You'd lose a lot of output I think
jay
jay
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Not necessarily. If you took the Hframe and just cut off the front at the baffle, you wouldn't be extending the sides, so no additional pressure, nor does the cavity change. How much would the rigidity suffer at that point? And what does the front half of the frame contribute to the sound of forward firing woofers?
Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the design; consider this as a thought exercise.
Yes, if instead of moving the the center of the baffle forward and you just chopped off the sides on the front half then the back sides would have no more pressure on it than before. However, you just cut in half the front to back wave separation, and slightly unloaded the driver. So the cancellation effect front to back would come sooner and they would tend to not play as low or the drivers would reach X-Max sooner trying to maintain the same SPL levels. There is no benefit to it, just some drawbacks.
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Jay Flat packs is one of the best i ever i put together,but i have to warn you,this thing is heavy which is a good thing when is come to subwoofers. :thumb: :thumb:
Thanks man :)
Your subs turned out great , feel free to share some pics or if you prefer, wait until your grills /no rez is all done !!
jay
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Well, better late than never.... after a year or so, these teal riples finally got their white external grills. I'd have taken a system shot with them but unfortunately, they are sitting in a hallway right now, hopefully back in service soon
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151162)
I haven't been cutting any packs with external grills but if anyone prefers them, it wouldn't be an issue
jay
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Been a while but here are a few pics of the Indian Apple Wood (Tineo) subs. We're just finishing up the amp boxes, hopefully in for lacquer this weekend
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151851)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151855)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151852)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151853)
More pics after lacquer
jay
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Wow, those look great.
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That's a very nice grain and color pattern. The finish is really going to make it stand out.
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Not the greatest light but here's one after a cabinet has been wiped down with minerael spirits to give an idea of what they'll look like after the finish is applied
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151856)
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More great work, Jay!
I'm excited to get my next shipment!!
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Wow, those look great.
X2 :thumb:
Thanks for posting these Jay, I really like the units without the top and bottom overhang.
Best,
Ed
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Thanks guys, wish we could take credit for the fine veneer work but we had an outside source do this one
We're working on our skills wrapping the amp boxes which are coming along nicely
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A little more progress
We finally finshed venerring the amp boxes, took a bit longer than we had initially figured
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152033)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152037)
mg]http://www.audiocircle.com/im
[iage.php?id=152037[/img]
This afternoon the cabinets went out to the finishers .... we hung ou there for a bit while he sealed the cabients/veneeer, really bought things to life
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152035)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152038)
Hopefully, we'll have some final rsults letaer in the week
jay
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Jay,
They look really nice with the sealer. Should really be something with the lacquer.
Mike
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Jay,
They look really nice with the sealer. Should really be something with the lacquer.
Mike
Agreed ! I knew once there was "something" on them , they'd pop, but when we were standing there watching the guy spraying the sealer, I was pretty shocked at just how much they changed. Can't wait to see them all finnished up, hoping I can get the client to post some pics when they are set up in his room :)
I wouldn't hesitate to use this Indian Apple Wood (Tineo) veneer again, beautiful stuff
jay
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Kenny (the H-frame customer) has put a lot of trust and faith in you and I Jay! He contacted me about the subs after I raved about them and your H-frames a few times on the Audiogon Forum. He had a lot of questions about the subs themselves, which I did my best to answer. But it was after talking to Danny that he was really sold on them ;-). I then put him in touch with you, as he wanted the frames to match the finish on his speakers. Looks like he's getting his wish, 'cause they're beautiful!
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Kenny (the H-frame customer) has put a lot of trust and faith in you and I Jay! He contacted me about the subs after I raved about them and your H-frames a few times on the Audiogon Forum. He had a lot of questions about the subs themselves, which I did my best to answer. But it was after talking to Danny that he was really sold on them ;-). I then put him in touch with you, as he wanted the frames to match the finish on his speakers. Looks like he's getting his wish, 'cause they're beautiful!
Hey Eric
Appreicated the recommendation and we're getting them as close as possible to his cabinets. After he send us the chosen veneer, cut a couple samples and had them lacquerd so we could send them down to him where he could compare to his existing cabinets
His wait is getting close to being over !
jay
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Here we go, 6 coats of satin lacquer and they really do pop
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152438)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152439)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152440)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152441)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152442)
Just need to glue the magnets in the grill frames, pack them up , and ship them off
jay
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Those are gorgeous Jay, fantastic job.
Best,
Ed
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Purtty!!! :thumb:
Mike
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Christmas/New Year's specail
We've got a pair of daul H-frames for a TG'ing sale price....
These are with the overhanging tops/bases, one forward-one rearward facing woofer, 1.5" side panels, tops, & bases, 1" baffle with pre-drilled screw hoes and roundovers on rear of woofer cut outs, and 1" braces.
They are recessed for front grills only. Grill frames and a set of our amp boxes for the A370/HX800 are included
The set is identical ( aside frm only having front grills) to the pair that Ron (Vedder332) put together back on page 4 of this thread
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140688)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140689)
Reg price with the 2 grill frames and amp boxes is $640 + shipping, Christmas/New Year's price SOLD :xmas:
jay
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A couple new projects on the go....
A set of sloped triples with all woofers facing forward. He went with a small over hang on the tops to eliminate the need to deal with a seam. These are going out as flat packs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155235)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155236)
We also added sloped duals to our designs. Glued this pair up the other day for a customer,. Flush tops, bot woofers facing forward, , front recessed grills, .5" roundovers all the way around. finish will be piano black
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155237)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155238)
jay
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Looking good Jay.
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Looking good Jay.
Thanks danny
Both these sets will be paired with NX-Ottica's hence both customers wanted the slped cabinets to match..
If anyone is looking for a "tandard" pair of duals, we'll turn post #206 above into a Christmas/New Years specail :xmas:
Happy Holidays everyone
jay
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Update on teh India Applewood subs....
So back in late Oct when we went to box up the Indaia Applewood subs pictured above, we noticed some issues with the veneer, we just couldn't sen them as we weren't happy with the job that was done:(
Decided to call the client and explain the unfortunate situation Disappoiting but he understood and was actually appreciative we didn't ship them and have "make the call"
We buuilt out a 2nd pair of cabinets and this time we did the veneer in house, another lesson learned the hard way
The 2nd pair arrived at their new home just before Xmas (Mery Christmas Ken:xmas: ) and the new owner is getting them ready for bass duty. He sent me a few pics today with the drivers installed and sitting in place with the speakers we were trying to match
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155636)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155783)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155637)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155638)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155639)
:thumb:
-jay
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Those look fantastic Jay! Is the inset for the grill frame painted or veneered? I am deciding that right now, the plan at the moment is veneer.
Best,
Ed
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Nice job Jay.
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Thanks guys !.
Ed, the insets are all veneer too, was a bit tedious but I think well worth the effort. I'll try and get the owner to get a shot or two without the grill frames at some point.
jay
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Looks good Jay :thumb:
Mike
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The veneer on the subs matches that on the owner's speakers really well Jay. Great job! I have been recommending the OB/Dipole sub regularly and frequently in the Audiogon Forum, which is where this owner learned of them. He then contacted me, and I referred him to Danny (who closed the deal and made the sale), and then to you. Hope he likes the sub as much as I predicted he would! It appears he has both his speakers and the subs sitting on Symposium Acoustics isolation platforms. A serious audiophile!
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thanks Mike , Eric.
The customer saw the posts above and forwrded a couple pics withou the grill frames
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155799)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155800)
jay
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First class job Jay, those look great, and yes, the insets are just a bit tedious :duh: :lol:.
Will No-Rez be added?
Best,
Ed
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First class job Jay, those look great, and yes, the insets are just a bit tedious :duh: :lol:.
Will No-Rez be added?
Best,
Ed
Yeah, tedious and time consuming but, worth it in the end, was glad to see you doing yours too :thumb:
Yup, he's got the no res, he'll add it last.
jay
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It would be great if Rythmik plate amplifiers came in L shape, bent right after the cooling fins.
This way one would be able to put the huge transformer and those caps in the cavity (bottom of the H frame would need to be some 4" tall), the cooling fins would be sticking out a bit, but all the controls would be in that case on the bottom back of the frame and everything in a single box.
Current height of the plate is 12-7/16", this would perfectly match both W and H frames with 12" drivers.
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If you increase the height of the H-Frames by 4" they would be too tall to use as stands for OB monitors like the MTM version of the NX-Otica.
If you don't intend to use the H-Frames as monitor stands than you can add another cavity under the bottom woofer for the amp. This is what I'm doing with my current H-Frame build for 8" drivers. With 12" drivers the height of the cavity only needs to match the width of the amp. This way there is no need to bend the amp.
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If you increase the height of the H-Frames by 4" they would be too tall to use as stands for OB monitors like the MTM version of the NX-Otica.
Then it could work for W frame 12" and all 8" options
This is what I'm doing with my current H-Frame build for 8" drivers.
This sounds interesting. Do you have any photos to share at this time?
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I want to build H Frames with the plate amp in a drawer on the bottom. You are saying that it would add too much height. I hate to have it one the floor in another box. How does the W frame compare. I'd like to XO about 300hz. Danny said the H frame goes up to 300hz. Not sure about the W Frame.
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I want to build H Frames with the plate amp in a drawer on the bottom. You are saying that it would add too much height. I hate to have it one the floor in another box. How does the W frame compare. I'd like to XO about 300hz. Danny said the H frame goes up to 300hz. Not sure about the W Frame.
I've done some thinking about this subject, and came up with this idea: attach a couple strips of 3/4" MDF (like maybe 1" to 1-1/2" wide) to run horizontally across the back of the H-frame (or W-frame), spaced so that the top and bottom of the plate amp can be bolted or screwed to the strips. The amp placement would be constrained only by the depth of the amps power transformer, which is about 4" I believe. If so desired, a pair of vertical strips could be glued on and run between the horizontal strips, and the long sides of the amp bolted or screwed to them. Unless the strips and the amp would acoustically "load" the H- or W-frame and/or driver, I don't think the mounting of the plate amp to the frame would create a problem. But Danny may provide the definitive answer to that question.
I believe that 300Hz figure is the same for a W-frame as for an H. The cavity resonant frequency of both W and H frames is about the same.
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Can't recall what thread it was but, I believe there was discussion about the amps and mounting them to the cabinets.... IIRC , although not a definite "no'no" (conventional subs mostly have the amps mounbted to the enclosure), I think the concensus was that it was probably wise to house the amps serparately away from vibrations
When I built my first pair of dual h-frames, I had planned to just have the amps site on top of the cabinets ( little feet on amp boxes) but after reading that thread, i decided to keep them totally separate.
jay
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Can't recall what thread it was but, I believe there was discussion about the amps and mounting them to the cabinets.... IIRC , although not a definite "no'no" (conventional subs mostly have the amps mounbted to the enclosure), I think the concensus was that it was probably wise to house the amps serparately away from vibrations
When I built my first pair of dual h-frames, I had planned to just have the amps site on top of the cabinets ( little feet on amp boxes) but after reading that thread, i decided to keep them totally separate.
jay
Having the amps in separate boxes doesn't create much of a problem---they can sit right behind the frames, out of harms way.
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Having the amps in separate boxes doesn't create much of a problem---they can sit right behind the frames, out of harms way.
This is a personal view. Obviously they do create a problem (to some), otherwise there would be no discussion about it.
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On the first pair of H-Frames I built I made the plinths long enough to the backside of the H-Frame for the amp boxes to mount to the plinth. This put them far enough away from the drivers so they didn't interfeer with the sound but kept them attached to the cabinets.
As for 8" options, there are no more 8" drivers available and the last I heard from Danny is there won't be any more. They didn't sell well enough to justify the cost.
I also wouldn't expect Rythmik to redesign the amps for a smaller form factor. I can't imagine how much the up front R&D costs would be for something like that.
Mike
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I guess if the amp is flipped horizontally, cooling fins inside and controls close to the rear it might work on W frame.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156835)
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This is a personal view. Obviously they do create a problem (to some), otherwise there would be no discussion about it.
That's why I above shared the idea I came up with of mounting the plate amp to the back of the frame. The OP hasn't yet built a pair of W-frames, and his concern about the amps may be more in anticipation of a problem than a realized one at this point. I didn't think my reassuring him it wouldn't create much of a problem for him in actual use would require defending; I was obviously mistaken!
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Here we go, 6 coats of satin lacquer and they really do pop
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152438)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152439)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152440)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152441)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152442)
That Tineo is georgeous!! A bit pricey. But I really Like it. Wonderful Job. I can only hope that mine will come out half as nice.
Just need to glue the magnets in the grill frames, pack them up , and ship them off
jay
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This is a personal view. Obviously they do create a problem (to some), otherwise there would be no discussion about it.
I like my listening room to be neat and clear of wires and tripping hazards. Just a personal thing. Not a big problem but it's not good for my OCD :lol:
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Since the OB subs have to be at least 3ft off the front wall and you want to meep the wires from the amp to the speaker as short as possible you can literaly set the amp boxes directly behind the speaker cabinet. That way the only wire you have is the one from your preamp or AVR, just like you would have if the amp was physicall built into the cabinet.
Since the amp would be sitting directly behind the cabinet you wouldn't see it from the front.
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Since the OB subs have to be at least 3ft off the front wall and you want to meep the wires from the amp to the speaker as short as possible you can literaly set the amp boxes directly behind the speaker cabinet. That way the only wire you have is the one from your preamp or AVR, just like you would have if the amp was physicall built into the cabinet.
Since the amp would be sitting directly behind the cabinet you wouldn't see it from the front.
Exactly my point as well. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone reading this has OCD to some degree; that's what lead us here ;-)!
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Thanks jimbones, I like it to and was really happy at how close the match withthe customers existing speakers came out. It's not too badly priced when you compare it ot other veneers, yeah you can get some stuff realitively cheap, I'd say the Tineo is moderately priced. One full book matched sheet with do a pair of dual H-frames and a pair of amp boxe. Pretty much just trimmings left over.
Another thing worth noting and I belive this has been discussed previously as well, there is a fairly large unbraced area in the "v" of the w-frame, I think guys have glued a horzonatl brace in this area to help . I'd think a piece of 1" dowel would work breat but remember to be aware of psitioning, you have to be able to get the woofer in !!
Mike, as I'm sure most do, that is exactly what the fellow is doing withthese. The amps will set directly behind the cabinets with only a short lead out/in wire The amp boxes are just shy of 13" long so really a guy could turn them sideways behing the cabinet to save a bit more room ( c couple inches) and they'd still be hidden by the cabinets. I personally like keepingt them separate, don't like introducing them to more vibration than necessary. That being said, I liked what you did with that original pair yo ubuilt with the extended bases for the amp boxes to sit on :thumb:
Eric, welcome to OCDC ! (ocd circle :lol: )
jay
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I priced a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" rosewood veneered plywood. It was $700 from my local retailer. Can you recommend a source for Tineo? I would really like to do Reconstituted but they only have a few varieties available, mostly boring stuff ha ha.
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Oakwood Veneer Company out of Troy, MI
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Oakwood Veneer Company out of Troy, MI
Yup, that's where the stuff pictured above came from..
'm probably pointing out the obvious but you'll want to make your side panels at least 1.25" thick (personally I'd go with 1.5" ). Even though the cabinets are open,those woofers put a lot of preasure on them. Use No-Rez as well
jay
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Yup, that's where the stuff pictured above came from..
'm probably pointing out the obvious but you'll want to make your side panels at least 1.25" thick (personally I'd go with 1.5" ). Even though the cabinets are open,those woofers put a lot of preasure on them. Use No-Rez as well
jay
Yes I plan to do 1 1/2 with no rez. Plywood with veneer outside wall and MDF wall inside.
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Now that I look more closely it looks like the outside verticals are rounded?
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Now that I look more closely it looks like the outside verticals are rounded?
On the tineo pair pictured above, yes , the front outside vertical edges are rounedover. Some guys want them this way, some don't, this particular cutomer wanted them rounded on the fron, not on the back to match his existing speakers.
If you go back to page 5, post 86 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139480.80), there is pair we sent to Ron at New Record Day which he finished in hickory with no roundovers.
jay
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I guess if the amp is flipped horizontally, cooling fins inside and controls close to the rear it might work on W frame.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156835)
Mireti, I may building something like yours, W Frame with Amp in drawer on Bottom. I cleared it with Danny and he thinks I will be fine. Vibration and heat are of no concern. Yay! Lol.
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Mireti, I may building something like yours, W Frame with Amp in drawer on Bottom. I cleared it with Danny and he thinks I will be fine. Vibration and heat are of no concern. Yay! Lol.
Thank you Jim, but I was a little bit impatient and ordered two RELs T-Zero on Sunday. They should be delivered today.
I will see if these two will work for me, if not I will get back to you.
Also, I am quite sure there could be others who would like the amp inside, but not so sure about the drawer. I mean, something could rattle. Wouldn't a fixed double/tripple sized and cut out bottom for the amp be a better solution?
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I used the term "drawer" loosely (don't mind the pun) :) Of course I will have to build it like a Brick S House or such that there are no rattles. I don't think that will be too hard. You are right, it takes time. I happen to be in no rush. I am hoping to get this done by mid summer. That gives me a few months. I have a local shop that will cut all the wood to spec so it will be delivered as a flat pack. I have a shop and can do it myself but I think it will go faster If I sub that out. I'll do the assembly. REL's are supposed to be good. I don't know how they compare to GR OB's. I was sold on the OB woofers.
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REL has a great reputation amongst advanced audiophiles, but they can't be considered in the same category as the OB/Dipole Sub. REL's, the Rythmik F12G, and other excellent sealed box subs are a completely different animal than the GR Research/Rythmik Open Baffle/Dipole Sub. Completely different in design, sound, and acoustic behavior, in the same way a Dipole speaker is completely different from a box speaker. Their dipole operation and figure-of-8 radiation pattern, where they need to be placed in the room, how they integrate with a loudspeaker, their maximum output capability, their lack of a resonant box, their characteristic sound--- "leaner", cleaner, etc. all different from any and all box subs, whether sealed or ported.
I liken the difference between box subs and the OB/Dipole as the difference between an acoustic/stand-up bass and an electric. The electric is rounder, fuller, fatter, the acoustic quicker, more snap and attack, less overhang and plumpness. The OB/Dipole is THE sub for ESL's, Magnetic-Planars, Ribbons, and other highly transparent loudspeakers.
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that sloped set of uals I posted pics of a while back is finally nearing the finish line.
Here's a couple shots of them after a few coats of epoxy and some block sanding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157956)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157957)
Our painter is busy so they've been in the shop for quite some time but great results. Here's one in the booth
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157958)
Another before final polishing
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157959)
Picked one up this afternoon and popped the grill in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157960)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157961)
Had to use some little knobs so the grills could be easilly removed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157962)
Some good light to show the finish
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157964)
Bably blue amp boxes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157963)
Now to box and ship 8)
jay
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Very nice Jay! What is the purpose of the epoxy on the raw MDF? Is it used to seal the edges of the MDF?
Best,
Ed
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Ed,
It does a very good job of both sealing the MDF so no seams will show through and it strenthens the MDF a lot.
Mike
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Ed, just as Mike said. The epixy really encapsulates the MDF cabinet.
we rolled this stuff and then blocked it , in the futre, it will likely be sprayed as our painter has been doing some of this.
jay
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Looking good Captain.
Those amp boxes look like aluminum, at least on my cellphone. Cool idea.
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A coule more of the Apple wood subs. This is the pair that had some veneer issues and we ended up keeping for in home demos. They sat in Don's garage all winter, when we pulled them out, the lacquer had all cracked :cry:
Went to work on them , sanded them down with a block, re lacquered with a flat lacquer this time and fitted them out with drivers, no-rez, and grills.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158648)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158647)
jay
jay
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For b-stock "demos", those apple wood look really nice! That might be one of the first of these OB subs that I could easily mistake for being an ordinary boxed speaker with the grills on. I like the grain on that veneer too, and I think that the satin finish adds to the "natural" look. It should be really easy to blend those in with the rest of the furniture in a room. :thumb:
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A coule more of the Apple wood subs. This is the pair that had some veneer issues and we ended up keeping for in home demos. They sat in Don's garage all winter, when we pulled them out, the lacquer had all cracked :cry:
Went to work on them , sanded them down with a block, re lacquered with a flat lacquer this time and fitted them out with drivers, no-rez, and grills.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158648)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158647)
jay
jay
Fantastic Jay! With the inset grill, it really does look just like a bookshelf speaker from the 60's, such as the AR 3a.
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Ok, some folks have been asking about 6 stacks, a few have asked about singles (for running a single 12 on each side of a small room)..... so weve been working on a modular design that can work out for basically any number of woofer (singles, duals, triples, quads, or 6 stacks). We saw something similar a year or so back when Rich built his 6 stacks.
These are cut from Medex, 1.25" side panels, 1" baffles, and .625" top/bottom modle plates. The actual cabinet top/base will also be 1.25" Medex. Medex is a water/moisture resistant composite, it's classified as an MDF but is slightly denser , approx 770 kg m/3 vs 720 kg m/3 with standard MDF. It is formaldahyde free :green:
I've got a couple modules cut as prototypes. We went kind of crazy with the dowels, there will not be as many with production pieces. Final units will have 2 dowels for each joint vs the 4 we drilled ( I only used 2 per joint in the pics below)
Baffles are 1" thick. They are pre-drilled for woofer screws, have wiring pass thorough holes in each corner to eliminate going up and down with wiring, ( forward facing baffles will not have the pass through holes), and a .5" roundover on the rear side .
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160409)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160410)
Top/bottom module panels are .625" thick. They've got 4 8mm bolt holes (one in each corner) for bolting modules together (these are skinned over so the plates can be reversed at the very top/very bottom of a stack, no hole will be visible at the very top/very bottom. The necessary ones will be drilled out for bolts before shipping.
There are wiring pass throughs on the rear side of the baffle.
These plates inset .75" from front and rear edge of side panels so grills can be inset (options yet to be determined).. There's a .125 reveal cut onthe front/rear edge to correspond with next module..
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160411)
Side panels are 1.25" thick. Each will have .5" roundovers on outer vertical edges, a .125" rouindover (reveal) on inner vertical edges and outer horzontal edges to correspond with next modules.. Two dowels will match each top/bottom plate and also baffle edges.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160412)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160413)
Here's a sinle module from the rear side with the .125" reveal/rouindover cut around the top. Next module has the same cut on bottom. There will also be two vertical dowels in each side panel (both top and bottom) for locating subsequent modules and a base and top on each stack.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160414)
A pair with a mock base and top (some left overs I had lying around). Actual base/top will have .5" rounded corners and .5" round overs on top of base , the top.bottom of cabinet top.
NOTE: If you're thinking of veneering a set of these, we can disucss eliminating the ro's
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160415)
A better look at the reveal between modules
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160416)
Bolt holes were positoned so that after no rez is installed, they'll disappear
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160417)
As mentioned, pricing is not finalized, hopefully soon. We've got to determine yeilds, source some fastners and there a couple little details we need to finalize as well. Likely these will ship 2 modules per box, maybe 1 when it includes a cabinet top and base.
So , for those who have asked, they are coming soon :thumb:
jay (now to go through and fix all my typos :lol:)
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Jay,
Looking good.
Never put the NoRez in mine as they are still raw MDF. Will be cool to see a pair of 6x12's with finish on them when the modules are done.
Rich
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Hopefully soon Rich :hyper:
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After making a few revisions to the modular prototypes, we cut a run to build a pair of 6 x 12 cabs.. a bit time consuming to asemble all these modules as I glued each up in 2 stages.
First I glue the top and bottom plate to the baffle. Each plate is positioned with 2 dowels in the baffle/plate. You have to pay attention to the wiring pass through holes in the plates..... they need to be on the rear side of the baffle so roundover side with forward facing woofers, driver mouinting side with rearward facing woofers.
Forward facing woofers use baffles with no wiring pass through holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163148)
Rearward facing woofers use baffles with wiring pass through holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163149)
Apply a nice layer of glue to the baffle, tap in your 2 dowels until they lightly seat, then postion the baffle on the plate.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163144)
Do the same with the opposite plate
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163145)
Then you can fit the side panels (dry) for alignment, and clamp the top / bottom plates to the baffle and let sit for a few hours. I use a clamp on each side of the baffle (over the dowel holes in the plates) and add a an extra from side to side just to hold things in place. You don't need a ton of preasure, just tighten the claps until everything seats.... you'll feel it in the clamp when this occurs.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163146)
Once it's dry, yo ucan remove the camps. Lay the module on one side, remove the side panle, pull the dowels and scrape off any glue that may have squised out of the baffle / plate joints. check the side plate to make sure there is no glue there either. Add a layer of glue to the exposed edge of the bafle and top/bottom plate. Tap in your 6 dowels until they are lightly seated.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163147)
Add your side panel and flip the module over, repeat the above for the opposite side panel. Again, clamp uo the nmodule from side to to side to squeeze the side panels to the edges of the baffle and plates. A clamp in each of the 4 corners works well.. Thought i had snapped a picture of the clamp up but apprarently not :duh:
I let the module sit over night all clamped up before moving on..
If you get system going, you can have a couple modules in different stages glued up and sitting at the same time.
Each of the modlues is located onthe previous one with 4 dowels in the side panels and secured together with 4 bolts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163150)
I knew from Rich's (HAL's) pics that the 6 x 12 cabinets were but once I assembled a set, I realized the pics did ot really portray just how big they are , oh my :o
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163151)
Here's one with the NX-Tremes these will be paired with
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163152)
jay
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:o WOW Jay, that a heck of a speaker system!! Cool setup for the massive sub systems.
Best,
Ed
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Looking good Jay! :D
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theyre so small :lol:
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Based on the weight of my triples, each sub may tip the scales at 340 lbs!
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Jay, those effing things are huge! There's something to be said for ostentatiousness, eh? I'd love to hear 'em someday.
Could be they'd stress a significant other out, though. Maybe you could string a rope between them and use as clothes line....Dual purpose, you know.
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:lol: too funny Peter.
Have a customer who's interested in some quads so I threw a mock up of them together in the shop to snap a couple photos.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167726) (http://www.audiocircle.com
/image.php?id=167727)
Recently we did a paiir of the modular cabinets in dual form for a customer. When we were looking at them mocked up inthe shop, I thought it might look cool if I cut the reveal both above the top module and below the bottom module to give the illusion the top and base were "floating". It tunred out pretty cool , you can this in the pictures above
jay
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Does anyone in Atlanta have these and would be let me have a listen?
Sure would be cool. 8)
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If anyone is near Maryland, let me know. I have the 6x12's servo sub arrays with the OB line arrays.
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Does anyone in Atlanta have these and would be let me have a listen?
Sure would be cool. 8)
Wierd, I feel like we sent a set of triples to someone in Georgeia but digging through records, I can't find it :scratch: I know of someone in Tyrone, who may let you hear a set of duals (not these particular cabinets but still dual OB h-frames) as well as a guy in N Carolina who I know wouild be more than happy to let you hear his triples.... yeah I know N Carolina is a bit of jont ....
Danny may know of someone down in your area with a pair ?
jay
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If anyone is near Maryland, let me know. I have the 6x12's servo sub arrays with the OB line arrays.
that's the low frequency thump we all hear from coast to coast at times right Rich? :lol:
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Yes. As often as possible! :D
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I know of someone in Tyrone, who may let you hear a set of duals (not these particular cabinets but still dual OB h-frames)
Yeah, I know that guy, too. :lol: I have a set of duals in Stone Mountain.
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I have a pair of the MMG's over here right now. I am going to give them a good examination and figure out what I can do with them. I think there is a lot that can be done with them.
I am thinking a pair of triples may match up nicely with the Maggie .7 speakers. Have you figured out what can be done with the MMG's?
Seems to me this would be a tremendously capable system that doesn't cost as much as a new car.
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If anyone is near Maryland, let me know. I have the 6x12's servo sub arrays with the OB line arrays.
I am in Frederick, have had a long interest in the servo sub H-frames.
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I am thinking a pair of triples may match up nicely with the Maggie .7 speakers. Have you figured out what can be done with the MMG's?
Seems to me this would be a tremendously capable system that doesn't cost as much as a new car.
Triple 12's should be a great match. I recently built a pair of triple 8 servo subs with A370 amps for someone who is pairing them with Maggie 3.6s. He and his wife love them.
Mike
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I have a pair of 3x8" H-Frames with HX300 servo amps and drivers to be built. Also have the 3x8" U frame here as well with amps. They are extra at this point.
I am about 110 miles south of Frederick. PM me if you are going to be in the area.
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I am thinking a pair of triples may match up nicely with the Maggie .7 speakers. Have you figured out what can be done with the MMG's?
Yeah, I made a whole thread on upgrading the MMG's. It was a pretty significant upgrade.
Seems to me this would be a tremendously capable system that doesn't cost as much as a new car.
The MMG's with upgrades were really good for a small budget. They do need quite a bit of power though. So keep that in mind for your budget too.
And the servo subs are the easiest to match up with them. The flexibility of the servo system allows them to do just about anything. And with the open baffle servo system its a perfect match.
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Yeah, I made a whole thread on upgrading the MMG's. It was a pretty significant upgrade.
The MMG's with upgrades were really good for a small budget. They do need quite a bit of power though. So keep that in mind for your budget too.
And the servo subs are the easiest to match up with them. The flexibility of the servo system allows them to do just about anything. And with the open baffle servo system its a perfect match.
For the client with the 3.6s we added an in-line filter to keep the Maggies from having to deal with first octave signals. By filtering the lows off the Maggies he found they played much cleaner and don't need as much power as before. He says his power amps for the Maggies now barely twitch the needles, keeping them almost entirely in class A mode (Pass Labs class A/B amp).
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He Jay,
Are you near Vancouver, B.C. or Vancouver, Washington? I am near Vancouver, B.C. so I am wondering if you are in B.C. whether you ship from Canada for the flatpacks?
James
Look "up and to the left" (BC) :lol:
Mostly shipping out of WA to help keep pricing down. These are heavy and there are 2 boxes per shipment.
jay
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He Jay,
Are you near Vancouver, B.C. or Vancouver, Washington? I am near Vancouver, B.C. so I am wondering if you are in B.C. whether you ship from Canada for the flatpacks?
James
Shot you a PM James
jay
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Have a pair of modular 2x12 H-Frames on the way from Jay and should be here Friday. Then glue-up starts.
Found a local finishing shop and they are testing a finish on one of my modular 6x12 cabinets. Epoxy base coat and gloss polyurethane in Hot Rod black for the color. Should see the test finish on Friday. If it worked well, will get them the modular 2x12's after glue-up as the next step in finishing.
They can do any automotive finish car color, so may change to a different one after they know pricing.
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Looking forward to seeing that sample paint and hearing some feedback on our modular subs. Shouild be an easy glue up for you
jay
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Finally I took care of the wiring today! Not only am I a pro at procrastinating, I also happen to work very slowly.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171613)
Jay and his guy did an amazing job with the sloped duals and I can't wait to dial them in once they break in some more and the no-rez is installed. The finish is extremely nice and they match the color of the speakers just about perfectly.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171614)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171629)
Until now, I've been playing the NX-Otica's with a sealed subwoofer with satisfactory results in my system, although the integration isn't exactly seamless. I'm also surprised at how low they seem to extend by themselves in my room.
Now that the winter amplifier is back in the system, I've been doing much more critical listening. I decided to reorganize the equipment rack the other day and took out two shelves which gave me a dramatic improvement in terms of sound stage and imaging. It was a real eye opener.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171616)
I also had a nice 300b integrated amp on loan for a couple days and it made me realize just how efficient the NX-Otica's actually are. I could definitely get away with even less than 8 watts per channel especially if I was to hi-pass above 80hz.
Kudos to Jay and to Danny for putting together and designing this exceptional package! :thumb:
And thank you Mike (mlundy57) for assembling the crossovers as well as providing me with very detailed soldering instructions!
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Dang David, your setup looks nice. Nice diffusors too.
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I like it too.. Really Nice , How long have you been into Home Audio..??
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David !! Was starting to get worried about you !!
So glad to see youi've got the subs up and running . System looks super dude :thumb:
Enjoy
jay
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Dang David, your setup looks nice. Nice diffusors too.
Thanks Danny! One nice thing is that I can easily move the ones in the middle when occasionally watching movies. I can store them away and the process takes about 30 seconds. I treated the left wall with 4 absorption panels as per your suggestion.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171619)
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I like it too.. Really Nice , How long have you been into Home Audio..??
Thank you Delta77 I appreciate your comment.
A little over 20 years on and off but the only experience I had with open-baffles in my system was a pair of Magnepan SMGa back in the days. My audio journey all started when I was 16 and decided to buy vintage equipment rather than visiting the usual stores...a nice MC240 tube amp and a pair of Kef 104/2 speakers for the equivalent of US1500$ :green:
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David !! Was starting to get worried about you !!
So glad to see youi've got the subs up and running . System looks super dude :thumb:
Enjoy
jay
Jay!! Thank you so much for bearing with me and investing so much time in my project. I would recommend your flat packs to just about anyone! Especially when fully assembled/finished haha :green:
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David,
Those look great! Glad you got them up and running. Now for the fun :thumb:
When you are ready to install the No-Rez, if the insides are slick and shiny, be sure to scuff them otherwise the No-Rez won't stay stuck.
Mike
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When you are ready to install the No-Rez, if the insides are slick and shiny, be sure to scuff them otherwise the No-Rez won't stay stuck.
Mike
Mike, that no -rez will not come off that paint... it grabs it unbelievably well As long as it's clean, no dust, it will not come off.
jay
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Jay,
I've had it come unstuck when applied over a smooth topcoat so I scuff sand with 320 or 400 grit.
Mike
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Jay,
I've had it come unstuck when applied over a smooth topcoat so I scuff sand with 320 or 400 grit.
Mike
gotcha, maybe it's the type of finish ? No issues with this high quality automotive clear coat... the self adhesive of the no-rez grabs it and even if you don't press it, it's damned hard to get off. I've stuck no-rez to quite a few different finishes and so far, this clear seems to be what it likes best.
jay
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gotcha, maybe it's the type of finish ? No issues with this high quality automotive clear coat... the self adhesive of the no-rez grabs it and even if you don't press it, it's damned hard to get off. I've stuck no-rez to quite a few different finishes and so far, this clear seems to be what it likes best.
jay
Quite possibly. I use finishes designed for furniture.
Mike
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The modular 2x12 H-Frame flat packs from Jay are here. Danny sent 4 - SW-12-16FR and will be here tomorrow. The HX300's, connectors and cabling are here.
Time for some gluing and installing during the holidays!
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Finally got busy and glued up another set of amp boxes. Wrapped them in the leftover Applewood (Tineo)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172231)
these will be sprayed in flat lacquer to match another set of Applewood subs we have here..
jay
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Here's a few pics after some low sheen lacquer ( I like the look of this on wood) and fitting an amp.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172717)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172718)
Now this pair of Applewood "demo" fianlly have their matching amp boxes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172719)
jay
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Hi all,
Very inspiring and most impressive work here.
I am a newbie about to pull the trigger on this project but still tying up some loose ends in my head as I formulate my plan.
Regarding the materials:
- Now that you are using the 5/4 Medex, do you notice any kind of sonic improvement or degradation over the glued 2 x 3/4 MDF sheets approach in your non modular design?
- Anyone have arguments for or against using Richlite for the baffle or even the whole H Frame? Price might be a negative for the whole H Frame, but would it improve sound as a baffle?
- Finally I am a 3 sub per cabinet kind of guy on a 2 sub per cabinet budget. Would it make sense to build a cabinet for 3 subs with the intent to add the third sub later, or would this just be adding an extra unused chamber to resonate until it is properly fitted with the 3rd sub?
Thanks,
-Dan
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Hi all,
Very inspiring and most impressive work here.
I am a newbie about to pull the trigger on this project but still tying up some loose ends in my head as I formulate my plan.
Regarding the materials:
- Now that you are using the 5/4 Medex, do you notice any kind of sonic improvement or degradation over the glued 2 x 3/4 MDF sheets approach in your non modular design?
- Anyone have arguments for or against using Richlite for the baffle or even the whole H Frame? Price might be a negative for the whole H Frame, but would it improve sound as a baffle?
- Finally I am a 3 sub per cabinet kind of guy on a 2 sub per cabinet budget. Would it make sense to build a cabinet for 3 subs with the intent to add the third sub later, or would this just be adding an extra unused chamber to resonate until it is properly fitted with the 3rd sub?
Thanks,
-Dan
Hey Dan
With our kits (both modular and non-modular) we use a 1" bafle, it's actually a bit over kill but it does eliminate the issue of the screws poking through the rear roundover. ( I like to use the radius on the backside even with subs)
There is such little baffle in each "chamber" that a different material is unlikely to change the sonics... resonense here is not an issue.
Our non-modualr kits use 1.5" MDF not a pair of laminated .75" sheets. I did build a couple pairs early on using the laminated sheets.... pretty hard to say if there is any difference.
I have not noticed any difference in sound between the 1.5" MDF and the 1.25" Medex... but the 1.25" Medex is denser, resists moisture better, and seems to be more durable ( less likely to ding a corner etc). We recently sent Danny some prototypes of a different cabinet, I think he was surprised at the difference between the two matials.
If you built the subs in a modular fashion, you cold build them as duals then add a 3rd section when the time came. If you definitly plan to migrate to triples at some point, be sure you order the SW12-16FR's, the 8 ohm versions will not work for triples.
I also recommend you use the no-rez in your subs... when you are going with a set of subs at this level, just do them right ... right from the beginning.
HTH's
jay
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Thanks Jay,
Overkill is AOK in my book. :D
Sounds like MEDEX is the way to go. All my research said it was very easy to work with and better than standard MDF, so I am glad to hear that it performs better too.
No-Rez was always in the plan. When we are talking about a $2k plus project, doing them right is the only option.
I was not able to find a price on the modular flat packs, is it the same as the non modular prices posted at the beginning of this thread?
Thanks again Jay!
-Dan
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Thanks Jay,
Overkill is AOK in my book. :D
Sounds like MEDEX is the way to go. All my research said it was very easy to work with and better than standard MDF, so I am glad to hear that it performs better too.
No-Rez was always in the plan. When we are talking about a $2k plus project, doing them right is the only option.
I was not able to find a price on the modular flat packs, is it the same as the non modular prices posted at the beginning of this thread?
Thanks again Jay!
-Dan
Dan
Prices for the modular subs wil be $150 / module whichwill include the bases ad tops for each tower (so for example, a set of duals is $600, hardware is included)., . We'll be going to a single sized base/top on the next run.. I do need some lead time on these right now ( I've got 4 modules but no tops/bases for the towers. No grill frames are programmed yet but we may be able to accomade them. amp boxes are as priced on the first page of the thread..
jay
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Jay,
I am interested in a pair of open baffle subs. I have a few questions about the flat pack, could you send me a private email?
Thanks,
Fernando
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Fernando, Welcome to AudioCircle!
I think you need 3 posts before you can use PM system.
You can post in any topic.
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Welcome Fernando,
Just respond back here a couple of times and you'll be in good shape. You know, tell us how great we are are something like that :lol:
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Thanks for the reply.
-
I have been reading through Audio Circle and find it very imfromative.
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Jay,
I am interested in a pair of open baffle subs. I have a few questions about the flat pack, could you send me a private email?
Thanks,
Fernando
All good, you should have received my PM. LMK if yo uhave any other ?'s Fernando
jay
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I am also interested in a pair of the triples subs.
This is my first post and I will add more to allow for pm.
-
What is the weight of one triple sub?
I have a couple of listening areas and am concerned about ease of moving them.
Mike
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I don't have much painting experience or skill.
Some have had their units painted by commercial painters or car repair shops.
How much does that typically cost to have done?
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The 370 amp for these subs on the GR website has one version.
The Rythmik website has multiple versions, including one with balanced connections.
I think that the GR version may have some other features and upgrades also.
Can someone please elaborate on that?
Mike
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What would be the widest size clamp that I would need for the triple sub for glueing?
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I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a pair of 1.7s.
How does one add in inline filter to limit the signal to the main speakers?
I believe there was a mention of that earlier in this thread for Maggies.
The result was that the Maggies required less power from unloading the lower frequencies.
Mike
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What is the weight of one triple sub?
I have a couple of listening areas and am concerned about ease of moving them.
Mike
Wel. I've never actually weighed one assembled but, you'r e looking at 90lbs per triple flat pack (shipping weight), then it's about 22lb / woofer , wire , and no-rez so le's say for sake of argument, 160lbs finished.
the modulars would be very similar even though they are 1.25" Medex as opposed to 1.5" MDF for the non-modular version
jay
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I don't have much painting experience or skill.
Some have had their units painted by commercial painters or car repair shops.
How much does that typically cost to have done?
It really varies but I can tell you it is not "cheap". I'd say around $1300 is minimum and it can easily be MUCH more especially if you need to pay for asembly and prep.
Some of the House of Kolor paints we've used get pretty costly but man, they are cool
jay
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The 370 amp for these subs on the GR website has one version.
The Rythmik website has multiple versions, including one with balanced connections.
I think that the GR version may have some other features and upgrades also.
Can someone please elaborate on that?
Mike
features of all should be very similar although (I'm not 100%% sure) I don't think the high level inputs are functional on the balanced version. One thing you have to specify is that the amps will be used in OB config... a shelving cirucit neds to be added before they ship them out to you.
jay
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What would be the widest size clamp that I would need for the triple sub for glueing?
18".... I like to have a minimum of 6, more is obviously better. Never too many clamps :)
jay
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I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a pair of 1.7s.
How does one add in inline filter to limit the signal to the main speakers?
I believe there was a mention of that earlier in this thread for Maggies.
The result was that the Maggies required less power from unloading the lower frequencies.
Mike
Once yo u know the main amp input impedence, yo can determine the size of cap required to basically high pass them the signal you want. Use a high quality cap. If you don't want to build this your self,, I think has been known to make some nice inline units that will work for you.
jay
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features of all should be very similar although (I'm not 100%% sure) I don't think the high level inputs are functional on the balanced version. One thing you have to specify is that the amps will be used in OB config... a shelving cirucit neds to be added before they ship them out to you.
jay
If you order through Danny he will be sure Brian adds the appropriate boards and caps/resistors as necessary. If you order the amps directly from Rythmik you have to tell them what drivers you will be using in addition to open baffle. Any of the A370 versions work. your choice should be based on what works best with your system. I prefer the A370PEQ3 for my speakers but a client had me build his with the A370XLR2s.
Mike
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I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a pair of 1.7s.
How does one add in inline filter to limit the signal to the main speakers?
I believe there was a mention of that earlier in this thread for Maggies.
The result was that the Maggies required less power from unloading the lower frequencies.
Mike
In addition to what Jay has said, the filter goes between the preamp and power amp. If your preamp and power amp use balanced connections you will need to build a balanced version of the filter. The only difference is for balanced you will need two caps per channel. One for each hot wire.
Mike
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In addition to what Jay has said, the filter goes between the preamp and power amp. If your preamp and power amp use balanced connections you will need to build a balanced version of the filter. The only difference is for balanced you will need two caps per channel. One for each hot wire.
Mike
Or, you can open up the amp and add the cap inline to the inputs, less cable and connectors. Some may prefer this ....
jay
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Thanks for all the info and replies
Mike
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Going to start the glue-up of my modular 2x12 H-Frames tomorrow.
I am thinking about using Titebond II glue as before, but does someone have a better recommendation for adhesive? All I have locally are Lowes, Ace Hardware and a local hardware store. That limits selection a bit.
Let me know.
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I use either Titebond II or III for almost all my glueup needs. These cubes are going to be a fairly straight forward glueup so either will work fine. If the glueup is going to be complicated I prefer III since it gives me more working time.
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mlundy,
Thanks!
Nothing complicated from Jay's info, so Titebond II it will be.
If folks are interested, will post pictures of the progress.
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Seriously!!! You have to ask if we want pictures??? :thumb:
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Going to start the glue-up of my modular 2x12 H-Frames tomorrow.
I am thinking about using Titebond II glue as before, but does someone have a better recommendation for adhesive? All I have locally are Lowes, Ace Hardware and a local hardware store. That limits selection a bit.
Let me know.
Cool Rich, LMK if you have any ?'s along the way, should be pretty straight forward.
That glue will be fine for this
jay
edit ahhh, , didn't se this next page, you guys have already solved the world's problems :)
LOL, as Mike said , dumb ? Rich :duh:
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Jay,
Will get the glue tomorrow and start the process.
mlundy,
Will post pictures as it goes along.
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Just found a pretty full closed bottle of Titebond III, but it is about 2 years old left over after the 3x8" build. Shook it up, looks ok and seems to be drying and hardening correctly.
When I looked online should be good for 2 years when stored at room temp and not frozen.
Should I just get new glue, or is the bottle ok?
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If you have a couple scrap pieces of MDF you could glue them together, let them dry overnight then break them apart. If they fail at the glue line the glue is bad. If the wood breaks someplace other than the glue line itself the glue is good. Right next to the glue line is fine, just so long as the wood breaks but the glue line holds.
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Thanks!
Easier to get a new bottle and start fresh.
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Thanks!
Easier to get a new bottle and start fresh.
Yup, good plan :thumb:
jay
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Starting the build of the two 2x12 modular H-Frame servo sub flatpack builds.
The shipping box contains parts for one 2x12 and extremely well packed to protect against shipping gorillas. The flat packs have all the parts and very well packed from Jay and Don. Just supply glue and clamps.
New 16oz bottle of Titebond III glue like I used on the 6x12's awhile back.
Unpacked and time to let the Medex come to room temperature before gluing.
The first set of GR-Research SW-12-16FR servo sub drivers are unboxed from the main box for the individual boxes for protection.
Wiring for the Rythmik Audio HX300 servo amps are done, Just have to wire the drivers to Speakon connectors.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173707)
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Starting the build of the two 2x12 modular H-Frame servo sub flatpack builds.
The shipping box contains parts for one 2x12 and extremely well packed to protect against shipping gorillas. The flat packs have all the parts and very well packed from Jay and Don. Just supply glue and clamps.
New 16oz bottle of Titebond III glue like I used on the 6x12's awhile back.
Unpacked and time to let the Medex come to room temperature before gluing.
The first set of GR-Research SW-12-16FR servo sub drivers are unboxed from the main box for the individual boxes for protection.
Wiring for the Rythmik Audio HX300 servo amps are done, Just have to wire the drivers to Speakon connectors.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173707)
Glad it all was undamaged... we try to pack to avoid it .
jay
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Damn,
Jay. You do great work!
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Damn,
Jay. You do great work!
We try man :D Hope you enjoyed your holiday up int he NW .
jay
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Hi HAL,
Are the two boxes with GR Research logos the rest of the kit? Amps, drivers, wiring, hardware, etc.? If so would you please do an un-boxing series couple of photos? I'm thinking open one box, take a picture of everything still packed. Then take a photo of everything out and laid out in front of the box.
Jake
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JakeJ,
No, the two GR-Research boxes are the 12" servo drivers I bought from Danny directly to install in the 2x12 H-Frames when they are built. Just drivers and screws to mount them in the open baffle cabinets.
I separately bought HX300 amps, drivers, wiring and connectors for the system.
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Quick response! I edited and you posted before I got done. OK, I thought you bought full kits and the flat packs from the captain.
There are many ways to execute this design, my plan at present is to build a set of the subs driven by the A370PEQ amps as standalone subs to play with in my HT and main stereo. Then, as opportunity allows, work up a set of vertical arrays similar to HAL's Monolith design. I have 8 Neo8's and 8 Neo3's from the pre Christie Digital/BG era and I have access to machining and so can have a solid metal frame fabricated which I want to then sandwich with materials to damp vibrations. I envision the front of the baffle covered with wood that can have waveguides routed in. Yes, this will be dipole and yes, I have a lot to learn still. Fortunately there are plenty of resources.
My dream speaker project that is obviously based on other's work but intrigues me enough to pursue it.
Sorry for going a bit OT, now back to our regularly scheduled thread, :thumb:
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Quick response! I edited and you posted before I got done. OK, I thought you bought full kits and the flat packs from the captain.
There are many ways to execute this design, my plan at present is to build a set of the subs driven by the A370PEQ amps as standalone subs to play with in my HT and main stereo. Then, as opportunity allows, work up a set of vertical arrays similar to HAL's Monolith design. I have 8 Neo8's and 8 Neo3's from the pre Christie Digital/BG era and I have access to machining and so can have a solid metal frame fabricated which I want to then sandwich with materials to damp vibrations. I envision the front of the baffle covered with wood that can have waveguides routed in. Yes, this will be dipole and yes, I have a lot to learn still. Fortunately there are plenty of resources.
My dream speaker project that is obviously based on other's work but intrigues me enough to pursue it.
Sorry for going a bit OT, now back to our regularly scheduled thread, :thumb:
It's pretty seamless actually we can supply you with the flat packs (either modular or non-modular) that match up perfectly with Danny's electronics. You'll get everything you need to compete the build. If you prefer, completed cabinets also are an option but shipping costs increase due to size/volume.
Our modular subs are easily upgradable if you start with duals. Going to triples, quads , or even 6 stacks is pretty straight forward (quads and 6 stacks will need a change from the A370 PEQ to the HX800).. If you anticipate a possible upgrade from the duals, be sure you start with the SW12 16FR woofer, the Sw12 08FR won't work for triples or 6 stacks .... gets a little confusing as you could actually go from duals to quads using the SW12 08FR's, but triples or 6 stacks require the 16's due to impedence load.
Making a speaker with Neo3/Neo8's is not going to work, they cover similar ranges (the Neo 8 a bit lower) but neither will reach low enough , even in a wave guide, to cross to the OB subs. Additionally, if you are only using 4 Neo 3's per speakaer in a line, you are going to run into serious filtering issues, you'd be better off using a single Neo3 or going to say 9 (minimum or 16 (preferable).
The Neo 3/Neo10 is going to be a far better match, how you lay them out and implement them will be a huge factor in how successful you end up being with this.... there's a lot going on here, it can take some time to get a hndle on it, and even when you think you 've got it, you may not... trust me :lol:
But, you're in the right place , lots of great info here and Danny is always willing to help
jay
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Hi Jay,
Thanks, I planned on you as my go to for the flat packs when i'm ready. My sole purpose right now is finding a property and moving ASAP. Once that is accomplished and I have my own space to work with then I can make plans.
Jake
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Hi Jay,
Thanks, I planned on you as my go to for the flat packs when i'm ready. My sole purpose right now is finding a property and moving ASAP. Once that is accomplished and I have my own space to work with then I can make plans.
Jake
Sounds good Jake. Best of luck with your property search. LMK when you want to talk
jay
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I will. Ya know, I'm just down here in SE Washington and it's only a ~6 hour drive to Kelowna. I'm thinkin' I should make the trip after things thaw out this spring and check out what y'all got goin' on.
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I will. Ya know, I'm just down here in SE Washington and it's only a ~6 hour drive to Kelowna. I'm thinkin' I should make the trip after things thaw out this spring and check out what y'all got goin' on.
There ya go, that would be cool. You could hear a few systems while you are here with some cool gear :)
Keep me posted
jay
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I will. Ya know, I'm just down here in SE Washington and it's only a ~6 hour drive to Kelowna. I'm thinkin' I should make the trip after things thaw out this spring and check out what y'all got goin' on.
Well Jake,
I think you need to stop by and pick me up for the road trip. I've always wanted to go to Jay's place. I know it's hard to believe but Iv'e even been invited :lol:.
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Well Jake,
I think you need to stop by and pick me up for the road trip. I've always wanted to go to Jay's place. I know it's hard to believe but Iv'e even been invited :lol:.
I was thinking the same thing Greg :beer:
We just have to plan it to be sure Don is around, you guys need to meet him too and hear his system. Can arrange it so Mike from Mivera is there too. I'll actually have one of his new SE amps (well all internals of the SE but in a standard case) to test in the system starting this weekend
jay
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I was thinking the same thing Greg :beer:
We just have to plan it to be sure Don is around, you guys need to meet him too and hear his system. Can arrange it so Mike from Mivera is there too. I'll actually have one of his new SE amps (well all internals of the SE but in a standard case) to test in the system starting this weekend
jay
That sounds great Jay! I'm really looking forward to not only meeting you but also listening to your system along with Don's. Michael will be bring his loaded version of Mike's amp to a G2G that I'm having in Feb. so Jake and I will get to listen to it then as well.
I'm also really looking forward to hearing you and Don's speakers and hear the differences with them compared to my Super V's.
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That sounds great Jay! I'm really looking forward to not only meeting you but also listening to your system along with Don's. Michael will be bring his loaded version of Mike's amp to a G2G that I'm having in Feb. so Jake and I will get to listen to it then as well.
I'm also really looking forward to hearing you and Don's speakers and hear the differences with them compared to my Super V's.
So, do you want me to start building you a new set of Otica's or Extreme's :lol: :cheeky:
jay
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First 1x12 module is glued, clamped and drying overnight. Only enough clamps for one module at a time.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173738)
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First 1x12 module is glued, clamped and drying overnight. Only enough clamps for one module at a time.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173738)
Hal, you can get those type of clamps at Harbor Freight for $4.99 ea. They are pretty much the same quality as the Irwin model you see at HW for over twice the price.
https://www.harborfreight.com/18-in-ratcheting-bar-clampspreader-62125.html
edit; it looks like your clamps are the ones from Harbor Freight :lol: Don't you want to buy just one more set so you can go twice as fast :whip:
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gregfisk,
By the time they get here from HF, as it is a long way to one, I will be done with the clamps.
The money I save on clamps goes to NoRez, so all good.
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Well Jake,
I think you need to stop by and pick me up for the road trip. I've always wanted to go to Jay's place. I know it's hard to believe but Iv'e even been invited :lol:.
OK we will have to figure that out because the more the merrier.
There ya go, that would be cool. You could hear a few systems while you are here with some cool gear :)
Keep me posted
jay
My thoughts exactly! Been hankerin' to hear the Otticas and have listened to Greg's Super Vs long enough to fall in lust for a pair.
That sounds great Jay! I'm really looking forward to not only meeting you but also listening to your system along with Don's. Michael will be bring his loaded version of Mike's amp to a G2G that I'm having in Feb. so Jake and I will get to listen to it then as well.
I'm also really looking forward to hearing you and Don's speakers and hear the differences with them compared to my Super V's.
And reallly looking forward to hear Mike E's new Don Sachs gear and the opportunity to hear the Mivera amp. Hey Greg should I bring the deHavilland 845 amps to Jays? That might be interesting. Jay, any idea how hard it would be to bring a set of amps across the border and back, since they are not part of a sale deal?
Greg, I just got the boot by the "friend" I moved in with just last May. It's a long story like they all are. I have begun my search for new digs and I'm planning on buying since my duplex is self-sustaining. My new ex-roomate expected me to just boot one of the renter's. Pfft! That's not happening, I got good renters that pay on time. Not screwin' with that formula. Hell, the $450/mo I make off of it every month can help make the payment on the new place! Anyway, I'm hoping to close on something by the end of January and move the first week of Feb. So that's a heads up, Greg, to have the G2G sometime in the second or third week of Feb. Please.
I have to try and get out of here ASAP. The situation is hostile at best and even my cat is stressed out. Wish me luck on finding and securing a new abode soon!
Wow! That was way OT. We should take this to PM or use the PUGET SOUND AUDIO GROUP thread here:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0). Or create a new thread for the Kelowna Audio Club for our new group in BC!
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Module #2 is glued and clamped. First was dried enough after 4 hours at 70 degrees to unclamp.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173753)
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OK we will have to figure that out because the more the merrier.
My thoughts exactly! Been hankerin' to hear the Otticas and have listened to Greg's Super Vs long enough to fall in lust for a pair.
And reallly looking forward to hear Mike E's new Don Sachs gear and the opportunity to hear the Mivera amp. Hey Greg should I bring the deHavilland 845 amps to Jays? That might be interesting. Jay, any idea how hard it would be to bring a set of amps across the border and back, since they are not part of a sale deal?
Greg, I just got the boot by the "friend" I moved in with just last May. It's a long story like they all are. I have begun my search for new digs and I'm planning on buying since my duplex is self-sustaining. My new ex-roomate expected me to just boot one of the renter's. Pfft! That's not happening, I got good renters that pay on time. Not screwin' with that formula. Hell, the $450/mo I make off of it every month can help make the payment on the new place! Anyway, I'm hoping to close on something by the end of January and move the first week of Feb. So that's a heads up, Greg, to have the G2G sometime in the second or third week of Feb. Please.
I have to try and get out of here ASAP. The situation is hostile at best and even my cat is stressed out. Wish me luck on finding and securing a new abode soon!
Wow! That was way OT. We should take this to PM or use the PUGET SOUND AUDIO GROUP thread here:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0). Or create a new thread for the Kelowna Audio Club for our new group in BC!
Sorry to hear about the living situation , never a good thing :(
As for bringing the amps across, I don't think it would be diffiuclt but I do recommend you have paper work/recepts if yo udo. We do have a pair of K&K Audio, transformer coupled, 6C33C mon's we can plug in if you guys want tubes. Each of these parallel SET bad boys has 5 Lundahl trans formers ! Depending on when you guys come up, yo may not even want tubes.... right now in the middle of winter, the 6C33C mon's heat Don's entire upper floor LOL I had them here for a while but it is really unbearable as I'm in a pretty small room (18x12)
Hmmm, a Kelowna Audio Club/group thread......
jay
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Module #2 is glued and clamped. First was dried enough after 4 hours at 70 degrees to unclamp.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173753)
Rolling along Rich :thumb:
jay
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Jake,
Ouch! for sure. I'll PM you about Jay's and also my G2G. Mine will be in Feb. so we'll need to work around that as well.
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Test fit modular H-Frame sub 2x12 #1 together after drying overnight. Looks good so far!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173786)
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Module #3 glued and drying. Maybe #4 later after 4 hours of drying.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173889)
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Last module glued and both are drying overnight.
Test fit the drivers tomorrow and setup the wiring.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173909)
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Rich,
How do you plan on handling the seams where the modules meet?
Mike
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They have a reveal so they just sit on each other and bolt together.
There is no plan to permanently attach them and make them look like one unit. Each module will be painted and that is it. Easy to disassemble and move around.
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Makes sense.
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Rich,
How do you plan on handling the seams where the modules meet?
Mike
Mike, I've shown pics of this a few itmes earlier, thought you'd have seen it.
Not a seam at all, it's a revial... I cut a small (<1/8 raidus) around the top /bottom of the modules. When they are boted together, you get a reveall/feature on the cabinet that never needs to be hidden... very similar to what was done with Rich's 6x12 stacks. That's the beauty, you can add to these at any time if you want more.
In Gaelen's 2x12 & NX-Otica MTM thread, his cabinets have the same reveals, they do look good. I've actually been cutting them on the top and bottom of the top/bottom module as well, it creates the effect that the cabinet top is floating as well as the effec that the bottom module is floating... kind of cool..
jay
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The two H-Frames test fit is good and ready to install drivers and wiring harness.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173923)
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The parts to build up a modular 2x12.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173929)
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Looking good Rich. Those 2x stacks will be pounding out the bass soon :thumb:
jay
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Jay,
Thanks! The ease of building these compared to my other H-Frames is wonderful! Glue-up with the dowels was very easy and with simple clamps everything aligns well for fit. Very nice indeed! Just wipe off the surface with a paper towel is all I did for prep for glue. Titebond III glue worked well with plenty of time for fitting and clamping for me, as I am very slow. Thanks for all the hard work making the flat packs!
Now on to getting some sound out of them! :D
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What's all the wire on top of the H frames for?
-
The cable I have on hand to wire them up. More than I need, but was all in my box of parts.
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Drivers installed and wiring for the speakers is done. Now for some testing before finishing sub #2.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174015)
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Drivers installed and wiring for the speakers is done. Now for some testing before finishing sub #2.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174015)
Thanks for the feeback Rich, appreciate it !Stack looks great
I know you use a bit of a different wiring setup than most, but for those of you just wiring "normally", those vacant 2 holes in the lower module baffle allow you to go from the driver/servo coil terminals and head toward the upper module without having to backtrack . Helps keep wiring as short as possible. Using that upper hole let's you go through the baffle and directly up into the top module (or next module in a larger stack). We've included holes on both sides to allow the driver/servo leads to remain on either side of the cabinet, no back and forth.
jay
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Jay,
Yes, mine are wired differently than most to make them easy to move as modules.
The amp is connected and subs are working! WOOHOO!
Trying some measurements next, but sub test signal from Room EQ Wizard is working! :D
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Second 2x12 H-Frame is loaded with drivers and ready for wiring.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174189)
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Are the modular units attached to each other in some way? I could see it working well with just dowels if you are building a tower of them, but how would it work if you were going to lay them down on their sides? You could screw them together, but then you have screw heads under the no-rez so not real easy to take apart in the future.
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There are four bolts and washers with nylon lock nuts between each module as well as the dowels.
The tops and bottoms of the modules would need to be removed to make them lay flat on their side. No problem with the modules.
Would suggest placing them sideways and then bolt them together to make it easier instead of tipping them over.
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There are four bolts and washers with nylon lock nuts between each module as well as the dowels.
The tops and bottoms of the modules would need to be removed to make them lay flat on their side. No problem with the modules.
Would suggest placing them sideways and then bolt them together to make it easier instead of tipping them over.
Hardware is included in the kits (grade 8 5/16 x 1.75" bolts, flat washers, & nylon lock nuts)
Easiest way to deal withthe no - rez is to drill a corresponding hole to matchthe bolts. Bolts are a nice button head design so really wouldn't be seen from top... I can cut a chunk of no-rez, drill holes, position with bolts in a module and snap a pic. On the weekend
jay
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regarding the no-rez and the bolts / nuts that holod the modules in place.
The center of each bolt hole is 19mm in from the side panle and 27.5 mm in from the front or rear edge. Whenther you do your no rez with butt joints or miter it, the bolts will be hidden by the no-rez on the side panel once it is installed.
You can either drill a hole in the location or you can just notch the hard damping layer . Try and leave the foam above so it meets up properly withthe foam on the said panel. I just snipped this out quickly with some side cutters for pics , could have been eater LOL
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174889)
Here it is flipped with the bolts installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174890)
And after the side panel no-rez is in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174891)
Bolts are a nice hex cap with nylon locknuts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174892)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174894)
jay
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So the bolts are hidden behind the norez? So if you would like to break down the boxes would you have to remove the Norez or could the bolts be loosened and disconnected without having to replace the Norez?
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Yeah, the bolts/nuts are hidden under the foam of the no rez. You'd be able to get them out if you wanted to break them down, it'd just be a matter of compressing the OCF and getting an allen key in the bolt, a socket onthe nut below.
jay
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Hey folks
We've done up some of the same amp boxes to fit the HX300's . These are bsically the same design as the A370/HX800 boxes but sized accordingly.
Boxes are vented, 45'd inthe corners, and earch corner has a single #20 biscuit. Easy to assemble.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175367)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175368)
Pricing is the same, $70/pr or $60 / pr with flat packs
I can core a 1" hole inthe end plate if you want to mount a female 4-pole connector inthe amp box
jay
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Yay!
Looking forward to a pair for the HX300's and the 2x12's!
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Yay!
Looking forward to a pair for the HX300's and the 2x12's!
The pair pictured will be coming your way shortly :)
jay
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Second 2x12 H-Frame is loaded with drivers and ready for wiring.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174189)
HAL,
Any updates on your OB subs ? How do they sound ?
Those cabinets sure do look great. Love the modular/stackable design. Plenty of room to grow.
TIA
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Waiting on the new baffles for the planar mid and tweeter to arrive. Once they get here and built, will be able to listen to them.
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We sold our demo subs that I had been using in my room so I had to throw a set of these modulars together and load them up with some drivers until I can build a permanent pair for my room ( again LOL).
I popped one of the prototype wedgie cabinets up on it in these pics...... the 4 wiring pass through holes inthe rearward facing baffle really aid in keeping the wires as short and neat as possible
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176658)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176659)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176660)
This was also the trial run for bolting on the bases to make adding an additional modula easy. The bolts go down through the base and thread into inserts installed in the bottom of the base.
jay
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HAL,
Any updates on your OB subs ? How do they sound ?
Those cabinets sure do look great. Love the modular/stackable design. Plenty of room to grow.
TIA
Here is the thread where I am discussing the planar driver upper module that goes with the 2x12 servo subs. Want to keep this thread about the servo subs.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153244.msg1668776#new
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Hey Jay,
What area of town are you in and are you busy tomorrow, Sat. the 23rd.
Ron from Ktown
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Hey Jay,
What area of town are you in and are you busy tomorrow, Sat. the 23rd.
Ron from Ktown
hey Ron
Sorry I missed this, was a bit of hectic day yesterday then went out to the Wentworth concert last night.
I'm in the South Ethel area
jay
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Hello Jay,
I should be free from business tomorrow around 3:00.
Have you a shop where I can drop by.
Are you making all Danny's flat-packs?
Sure would save on shipping.
Ron
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Hello Jay,
I should be free from business tomorrow around 3:00.
Have you a shop where I can drop by.
Are you making all Danny's flat-packs?
Sure would save on shipping.
Ron
I sent you a PM this afternoon with my email address, did you get it ?
jay
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I can't seem to find it Jay.
Try again please.
I'm not allowed your email.
I'm anxious to meet up.
Ron
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I can't seem to find it Jay.
Try again please.
I'm not allowed your email.
I'm anxious to meet up.
Ron
Just sent you another one Ron. go to "home"... in the left hand pane you should see " unread messages" , click that.
LMK if you have troubles
jay
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He may not have enough posts for PMs yet, doesn’t it take 5?
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He may not have enough posts for PMs yet, doesn’t it take 5?
yeah, but, I think you can reply to PM's right away, you just can't initiate them but I could be wrong.
Anyway, been in contact via email now, all good
jay
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Has any one built a pair of OB subs to go with Eminent Technology LFT-8b speakers? Thinking about a pair of triples to go with mine.
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Finally getting some material flowing again :)
Another pair of triples ready to go
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182158)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182159)
New cabs are now using 1" Medex for bafles and braces.
driver mounting screw holes pre-drilled
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182164)
Roundovers on rear side of driver cutouts. May have shown this before, but we are now putting 4 wiring pass through holes in baffle for rearward facing drivers. This allows wires to run up both sides ( one side driver coil, one side servo coil) and let's you go out to the front at the bottom, run up to the terminals, then cntinue up and out the top. Saves back and forth wiring and keeps wiring as short as possible.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182165)
jay
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Hi Jay,
I would like to order some flatpack baffles from you. Thanks
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What are you after ? shoot me a message
jay
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As I have consumed the content from this community over the past year and a half, I feel I should at least contribute a little to compensate for the knowledge you have all has shared. So provided below is my humble opinion of the experience I had listening to the legendary H-Frame OB Subs.
I had to the privileged to head up to the great white north over the labor day weekend and meet the legendary Jay and his good buddy Don.
First I want to thank Jay and Don for the hospitality. The food was off the charts good, the local wines were most tasty, and somehow we managed to stay out of the whiskey, which was probably a good thing.
I was lucky enough to hear both the NX-Treme Oticas and the NX-Oticas coupled with the servo-controlled OB H Frames. Since this is the H-Frame thread, I will stick to what I have to say about those beauties and maybe post some listening thoughts on the Oticas in their appropriate thread.
Let us start with a little history; I first came across these subs while looking for a way to augment the bass in my three-way speakers that seem to roll off way higher than I prefer. I had been evaluating the regular suspects (the ones you find in many of the hifi shops) and reading every review I could get my hands on. In one review of a hi-end show, the GR-Research OB subs were mentioned as a side note in the article where the author compared what he was hearing to Danny's H-Frames and how how has not heard such great bass since. Please note, that the H-Frames were not at the show, but he chose to use them as a reference point. That un-provoked positive review/comparison piqued my curiosity and sent me chasing a chance to hear this open baffle sound that is compared to the known best out there.
Fast forward 18 months and I finally got my chance to hear them.
I am so impressed with the H-Frames, they really produce incredible clean bass. The notes heard from the standup bass on Erykah Badu's Rim Shot, or any of the many Ray Brown recordings we played was just plain extraordinarily detailed and clean. It was like the notes were being plucked from the strings in front of me.
People have stated before that these subs just sound right, and I can only concur. The punch these subs provided (both the 3 stacks and the two stacks) was more than enough. When listening to the likes of Larry Carlton and Robben Ford jam away on a live recording the kick drum and bass guitar were providing that thump and blanket of vibratory bliss that just takes you deep into feeling the music like you are at the show. We even threw on some Kanye West and of course some of the heavy stuff like Rage Against the Machine, and Disturbed's Down with the Sickness just because you must when testing subs, and the H-Frames came through having no issues with the heavy hitters.
The statements people make about the bass not being boomy is spot on. I have heard some pf the major competitors out there with monster voice coils or even more monstrous price tags, and the servo subs in Jay's H-frames just sound cleaner to me. The big boys I did audition are excellent contenders, but the H-Frames are really incredible.
I feel like I am repeating what has been said before on the forums, but after finally having heard it myself, I can only validate all the positives that this kind of sub-woofer is known for.
So after careful consideration and intense negotiation with the wife, I opted to take Jay up on his offer for the Sloped Purple Triples he had already built. So, if anyone else was thinking about those... Too late! They are mine as I am taking delivery of them this month so do not even think about it! :)
I am finally in the elite OB Sub Owners Club. :beer:
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Welcome abord
Mike
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Dan, it was a great litle G2G, enjoyed the company. And yes, Don cooked up a killer feast that Sat night :beer:
You'll both be happy far into the future with those subs :dance:
jay
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The statements people make about the bass not being boomy is spot on. I have heard some pf the major competitors out there with monster voice coils or even more monstrous price tags, and the servo subs in Jay's H-frames just sound cleaner to me. The big boys I did audition are excellent contenders, but the H-Frames are really incredible.
I feel like I am repeating what has been said before on the forums, but after finally having heard it myself, I can only validate all the positives that this kind of sub-woofer is known for.
I am finally in the elite OB Sub Owners Club. :beer:
Sometimes in high end audio people fall in love with just different flavors of sound. But sometimes sometime is just flat out better than everything else. The OB subs are IME just flat out better. Welcome to the world class bass club!! :thumb:
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Prices are $550 / pr duals, $750 / pr triples, boxes and shipping materials were much more costly than expected. These things are going to be heavy so for US customers, there will be shipping out of Oroville WA 98844 ,k for Cdn customers they'l ship from V1W3S9
(approx 75lbs x 2 for duals, 95 lbs x 2 triples.)
Just curious on pricing, maybe this was answered already. Does pr duals mean a PAIR of Dual flat packs? Or is it 750 dollars for 1 Dual Flat Pack?
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Just curious on pricing, maybe this was answered already. Does pr duals mean a PAIR of Dual flat packs? Or is it 750 dollars for 1 Dual Flat Pack?
That is for the pair. there is additional costs for the amp boxes and grill frames if wanted, prices are in the same post you quoted above....
Let me know if you have any other ? 's
We're a bit backed up right now so a bit of a lag but we're getting there
jay
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Hello everyone,
My first post in AudioCircle forums, but have been lurking around for a couple of weeks now.
(Apologies in advance, if this is not the correct thread for my post. Please move my thread or guide me where to post such a question.)
Short post: Is it possible to audition these subwoofers somewhere nearby? I am in northern VA, Washington, DC's suburbs and am willing to drive an hour or even two.
Long version: I am very curious about these OB subwoofers. I recently moved and now my Magnepan 3.6r speakers are setup in a 20x13 living room with two large openings (5' and 6' to foyer and dining room respectively). Looking to augment the bass of the maggies, which is practically non existent in this living room :( I know, it is too big and too many openings to pressurize easily. My kit is very old...the Maggies are fed by a couple of Bryston 200wpc monoblocks sitting behind the maggies. Balanced cables are connected to an old Anthem AVM 20 pre-pro with DSP bypassed. Meridian 588 CD player and Rega P3 turntable are the sources. I know, I know, I need a proper 2-channel pre-amp. This setup is only for 2 channel music. I have another room for movies. I have an old Velodyne sub (DD12 I think), which died right after we moved. The plate amp is dead. Looking to repair it, eventually.
Anyway, I have read through quite a lot about these OB subwoofers....but being a bass head, I worry about the OB design not having enough output. When I talk to box sub dealers and manufacturers, they all say OB design does not have low bass, it only has mid bass....which is kinda true of my maggies. So without actually hearing the OB design, it would be impossible for me to buy (and build) these OB subwoofers.
I am looking for a "fast" sub which has tight bass. I have looked at sealed box designs from REL, SVS and HSU. I have auditioned REL and SVS. I found SVS to be good for movies, but not particularly good for music on planar - magnetic speakers like my magnepans. I found it a little boomy. REL was good but was too expensive for a small, single sub. I am looking for a pair of subs this time.
What should I do?
Thanks
Raj
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While the mid bass comment may be true of the OB subs they heard, it is not true of these servo OB subs. To go with your Maggies you want a pair of the triple 12” driver H-Frames. I built a pair of triple OB subs with 8” drivers for a client with Maggie 3.7s. He loved the bass but would have preferred the 12” drivers if he had room for them.
You’re welcome to listen to mine. I’m in the Tulsa, OK area if it works for you.
Mike
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Anyway, I have read through quite a lot about these OB subwoofers....but being a bass head, I worry about the OB design not having enough output. When I talk to box sub dealers and manufacturers, they all say OB design does not have low bass, it only has mid bass....which is kinda true of my maggies. So without actually hearing the OB design, it would be impossible for me to buy (and build) these OB subwoofers.
I am looking for a "fast" sub which has tight bass. I have looked at sealed box designs from REL, SVS and HSU. I have auditioned REL and SVS. I found SVS to be good for movies, but not particularly good for music on planar - magnetic speakers like my magnepans. I found it a little boomy. REL was good but was too expensive for a small, single sub. I am looking for a pair of subs this time.
What should I do?
Thanks
Raj
Typical OB woofers are just as they say. The servo subs are very different. They produce a lot of output and are flat to 20Hz. And nothing is faster or really compares in any way. And nothing will blend as seamless and easy to your Maggies.
Rich Hollis is in Callaway, VA. He has a set of doubles and a set of towers with six per side.
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Raj,
Danny is close. :) It is Callaway, MD, about 2 hours south of NoVA.
I wish you had asked this in time for CAF2018 in early Nov. in Rockville when I had The Monoliths with OB servo 2x12's setup in the HAL room for the show.
In the middle of getting the two systems setup again, so will be Dec before they are both running again, but not that far away.
Luckily the line array setup can be configured with 2x12, 3x12, 4x12 and 6x12 OB servo setups with the HX300's and HX800's servo amps I have. Probably closer to the Maggie 3.6's than the smaller setup.
PM me and we can discuss dates in Dec if you are interested.
HAL
aka Rich
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Danny is close. :) It is Callaway, MD, about 2 hours south of NoVA.
Oooops, I knew that.
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Thanks for the responses, guys. I appreciate it.
So Rich, you are probably the closest guy (who has these OB subs) to me, right? Around 2 hours drive. I could do that. Will PM you when I have enough posts here. I am definitely interested and thanks for the audition offer. BTW, are you an audio equipment dealer? If yes, what else do you sell?
I just spent an hour going through all the 21 pages of this thread. Gleaned quite a bit of info.
I am curious of placement of these OB subs. Do they have to be right besides the main speakers, like most photos I see here? Can't they be hidden like regular subs? If not why? Do you guys cross them over too high to the mains? In my talks with HSU guys, they recommend that their subs be placed as close as possible to the listening position, maybe right besides the couch/chair. They say that will give the best mid-low bass thump in (say) dance music, I like dance music ;-)
Also, I read that these need to be at least 3' out from the back wall. Now that will definitely not fly in my living room, from the WAF perspective. I would like these to be approx. 6" away from the back wall. Is that a no-no?
I was thinking if I get/build these OBs, I would like to place them right behind my Maggies (3.6 are large enough to "kinda" hide these OBs.
-Raj
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I would like these to be approx. 6" away from the back wall. Is that a no-no?
Think of a traditional sub as a piston that forces pressure changes within the room.
Then the open baffle subs quickly push air from one side of the room to the other without loading the room. So they do need to be out into the room to achieve that.
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I was going to nominate Rich but I see it's already been done :lol:
If you head up to his place, hopefully you'll be able to have a listen to both the 2 x12's and 6x12's he's got. You'll be able to see our modular setup which can be configured from 2x12 up to 6 x12's. As you likely noticed in this thread, 2x12 and 3x12's are also available in a non-modular design.
Yes, for guys crossing at higher frequencies, keeping the subs close to the mans is a good idea as the sound becomes driectinal. for the lower cross over points, getting them further away is possible. You don't want these subs beside you, the dipole design creates nulls to the side so yo u basically want them shooting straight down the room. Bass impact will not be an issue .
6" from the front wall is not enough. 3' is generally considered the "minimum" but people have had pretty good sucess with a bit less.
These subs are fast, accurate, and play very low but don't creat the typical "
room boom" that many are used to. They can take a bit of getting used to but once you do, there's no going back
jay
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Thanks for the responses, guys. I appreciate it.
So Rich, you are probably the closest guy (who has these OB subs) to me, right? Around 2 hours drive. I could do that. Will PM you when I have enough posts here. I am definitely interested and thanks for the audition offer. BTW, are you an audio equipment dealer? If yes, what else do you sell?
I just spent an hour going through all the 21 pages of this thread. Gleaned quite a bit of info.
I am curious of placement of these OB subs. Do they have to be right besides the main speakers, like most photos I see here? Can't they be hidden like regular subs? If not why? Do you guys cross them over too high to the mains? In my talks with HSU guys, they recommend that their subs be placed as close as possible to the listening position, maybe right besides the couch/chair. They say that will give the best mid-low bass thump in (say) dance music, I like dance music ;-)
Also, I read that these need to be at least 3' out from the back wall. Now that will definitely not fly in my living room, from the WAF perspective. I would like these to be approx. 6" away from the back wall. Is that a no-no?
I was thinking if I get/build these OBs, I would like to place them right behind my Maggies (3.6 are large enough to "kinda" hide these OBs.
-Raj
Raj,
Sent you a PM with the info you asked about.
Danny and Jay's advice is excellent for correct setup of the OB servo subs. You do not want to hide them behind the Maggies.
Rich
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The OB subs will be the best match for your Maggies bar none. However, If there is no way you can get them far enough away from the wall to work properly, the next best option is Danny’s sealed servo sub, especially if you build the sandbox cabinet.
Danny’s sealed servo subs use the same servo control as the OB subs. They are just as fast and accurate as the OB subs but they load the room differently.
With your Maggies the crossover point will be low enough you can place the subs away from the Maggies, as with any sealed sub. Between the servo control and adjustibility of the amp you can dial these in to blend very well with the Maggies. All servo controlled subs are not the same. I auditioned many sealed servo subs from different manufacturers for my living room HT/music system and the Rythmik/GR sub was hands down the best. I used one with Danny’s Wedgie OB speakers for close to a year before building OB subs.
Again, the OB subs will blend the best because you would be using di-pole bass with di-pole mids and highs (like with like). The sealed sub is a compramise. A very good compramise, but a compramise none the less.
Keep an open mind and lidten to Rich’s speakers. Just know there is a very good option if the best one won’t work for you.
Mike
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Thanks for the replies guys,
Rich, I got your PM. Thanks. Once you have the rig setup, please let me know. I would like to come hear it.
Mike, I like that option also. I think it would be best if I find someone nearby willing to give me a demo of Danny's servo subs. Checking if there is a thread for those kind of subs.
I know Rhythmik makes fully built servo subs, presumably using same or very similar tech. But again, they are an internet only seller.........so I cannot go to a store or showroom to check them out :-(
I do have a really old Velodyne Servo Sub, a FS12. It recently died but I remember its bass was always tight. That model is from 1995 and of course, its servo tech would probably be no match to modern servo sub technologies.
-Raj
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Raj,
The prebuilt version of Danny's sub is the Rythmik F12G. The only difference is it would not be in a sandbox cabinet.
It's true you can't go to a store to hear one, but Rythmik has a money back 30 day trial period. I couldn't listen to the Rythmik before I bought it either but with the guarantee I figured I didn't have anything to lose. I was ready to pull the trigger on a $2,500 sub when I ordered the Rythmik. The Rythmik outclassed it so I got a better sub and saved a lot of money.
Have fun at Rich's.
Mike
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Raj,
Will do!
Rich
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What is the usable FR of the dual driver version please? To be more specific, how high do they go before the FR rolls off, gets lumpy or loses refinement?
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Using the 12db / oc slope, Danny has crossed them in numerous designs around the 200 hz mark
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Bought a pair of H frames from Jay. Dealing with him via e-mail was a real pleasure. The box is still sealed. It will probably be after the Holidays before I get to it. Thank's again.
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I think you had a 2nd box arrive yesterday :thumb:
Not sure how the 2 boxes got separated, they usually arrive together.
Happy Holidays :xmas:
jay
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Picked that box up this morning, thanks
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I was going to use AE Dipole woofers for this build but, I've changed my mind. Servo Sub kit is the surefire way to go IMO. I need help deciding which kit. I'm thinking kit #4. I'll need a pair of boxes Jay.
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I was going to use AE Dipole woofers for this build but, I've changed my mind. Servo Sub kit is the surefire way to go IMO. I need help deciding which kit. I'm thinking kit #4. I'll need a pair of boxes Jay.
For a two driver cabinet that would be the one. Remember, you will need one kit for each H frame.
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Thanks and I'll order this set-up with some No REZ
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Kit 4 would be my choice as well. You could go with kit 3 but I like the flexability of the A370PEQ.
Once you decide for sure, letme know and we can package you up a pair of amp boxes for either the A370's or the HX300's
I'd recommend you grab 4 sheets of no rez... you won't use the full 4th sheet but you'll be shy with only 3
jay
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Kit #4 bought and paid for.
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Darn, I ordered 3 sheets. Maby the seller will see this and add another sheet.
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I sent DR a pm. Hope he's the go-to man for this. Anyway, all is good. I'm now thinking epoxy base under paint is a nice way to finish these.
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And that's taken care of, thanks. 127/slo cure ordered with some micro balloons.
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Just received my OB-3s with amp boxes from Jay. Just a shout out for his help and craftsmanship. Packaging was top notch as well. If you had any doubts about ordering these, fear not! Waiting on a pair of NXOticas now. Happy Holidays peeps
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:thumb:
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Jay and Danny are so helpful- even for noob DIYers like me- it’s been a pleasure working with these guys over the past several months
C
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Nice and square. Foolproof. Used Titebond III.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188415)
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Glad to see them coming together man :thumb:
Might be a touch of sanding etc where the braces meet the side panels but should be minimal.
Keep us posted on your progress , love seeing all the different finished results
And if you need any guidance with regards to wiring. I set this thread up a while back. Did up drawings for most confiigs... find what matches your cabs and there will be a diagram and a written "follow along" to get it right.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149708.msg1600884#msg1600884
jay
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:thumb: Grill frames hide all sorts of sins. These will be epoxied & finished with automotive type paint. Weather here is probably not conducive to attempt a finished job on these unless I do this indoors. Thanks for the link.
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Just a thought. What type of fasteners are favored for attaching the speakers?
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Just a thought. What type of fasteners are favored for attaching the speakers?
They come with mounting screws
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They come with mounting screws
Yeah they do.....
If the screws are not found in the box, check around the magnet of the woofer.... I've found them in a few strange places LOL this was mostly on earlier drivers I got from danny, the latter ones have all been sitting inthe little bag just as they should be .
jay
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Guess I need to open the box the speakers came in.
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Glued up the 2nd H Frame this morning.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188522)
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Can I listen to these using a Stereo power amp while I wait for the servo amp to get here? thx
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Can I listen to these using a Stereo power amp while I wait for the servo amp to get here? thx
You can. They will play and you can burn them in a bit that way. They just won't have the control.
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Excellent. I'm milling around, stumbling and quite unsure if I should attempt the epoxy coat this time of year or, wait until spring. One thing in my favor out here in the sticks is there's no dust in the winter. It's just not real warm.
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Raka arrived today. no smell. I'm going to do this indoors.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188806)
Danny, I'm impressed. Just flipped a few switches and spun a few knobs, in the right direction or not, these filled a void in my system I didn't know I was missing. Can't wait for the top half to arrive.
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don't be afraid to play with the settings on the A370's.
And here's (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151754.msg1622832#new) a drawing from @Throwback you can make copies of to help keep track of your settings and what changes they make if need be
jay
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Thanks. Quite a few different senarios.
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Yes there are..... try not to change too much at any one time. If you do too much, you won't know what is doing what
jay
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I'm thinking I like fast roll-off. Crisp & clean. Doesn't linger
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I'm thinking I like fast roll-off. Crisp & clean. Doesn't linger
That’s where the 80Hz/24 and 50Hz/24 low pass settings come in. These settings add an additional 12dB per octave filter at 80Hz and 50Hz respevtively.
All the setting options on these amps can be a bit daunting but they give you the flexibility to dial in the sound you want. You have to supply the patience and tenacity to keep experimenting until you get the sound where you want it. Or as close as your room will allow.
Mike
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I would also recommend moving the subs towards the inside. My Mini Stratas sounded a lot better spread out and toed in.
https://flic.kr/p/RZG1fd
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Raka arrived today. no smell. I'm going to do this indoors.
The epoxy won't cure in cold temps. 6oF is min. but it will take a long time to cure. I don't like to use epoxy below 75F. To help accelerate cure, pre-warm the MDF boxes with a portable heater, and put your jugs of epoxy/hardener in a pan of hot water to raise the temp of the epoxy. It will flow easier. Don't do any sanding indoors, especially before epoxy is fully cured which takes a week or more (depending on temp). You don't want uncured epoxy dust in your lungs!
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I would also recommend moving the subs towards the inside. My Mini Stratas sounded a lot better spread out and toed in.
https://flic.kr/p/RZG1fd
Thanks. This set-up is so temporary. By Monday-Tuesday I'll have the wedgies on top and the Voxativ's in our bedroom.
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The epoxy won't cure in cold temps. 6oF is min. but it will take a long time to cure. I don't like to use epoxy below 75F. To help accelerate cure, pre-warm the MDF boxes with a portable heater, and put your jugs of epoxy/hardener in a pan of hot water to raise the temp of the epoxy. It will flow easier. Don't do any sanding indoors, especially before epoxy is fully cured which takes a week or more (depending on temp). You don't want uncured epoxy dust in your lungs!
Thanks for this. The epoxy application is on hold until springtime. I may muster up the ball's and try my hand at veneer. What's stopping me? Ruining a few hundred dollars worth of materials and making a real mess of things.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189210)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189211)
A set of quads built from our modular design. These were sprayed in a satin white lacquer. Will load up the 2nd cabinet this weekend and get them wired up.
jay
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Those should be a lot of fun to listen to! :D
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Looking forward to it Rich :)
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What are you going to power them with, HX-800s / 2 drivers per module?
Mike
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Yes
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Don being a bit Creative for his friends at Driftwood Brewing....
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189419)
My comment was " where the f#%k are the coasters ? " :lol: :thumb:
jay
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Hi folks. I have an issue I can't seem to solve. When I power up the second amp there's a high-frequency whine I that won't go away. Doesn't matter which amp I power first it's always the second one. Thanks
edit: issue solved. servo connections were inverted.
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So both A370 amps whine, just depends on which one you start as #2?
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thanks HAL. Yes, both whined when wired wrong all good now. :duh:
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got these wired up yesterday, now up and playing . Wow :o
Need to slice up some no rez now
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189605)
If we get things a bit more organized this aft, will get a couple more pics
jay
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Damn!
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Yep.
Those are going to be fun subs! :D
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How big of a difference does the No-Rez make, Jay? Any comments on how it changes the sound quality?
Thanks,
Jake
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dam , yup :lol:
And Rich, yeah, they are and will continue to be fun.... a few hours on them now ...need a few more. Don did some tweaks and getting better.
Jake, haven't done a/b's yet (with / without no-rez) . That being said, Ihave no issue using it on any speaker build now, I first used no-rez a few years back on an Ob7 build and since, I've used it on every build. Cheap insurance to help reduce and prevent cabinet resonance
jay
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How big of a difference does the No-Rez make, Jay? Any comments on how it changes the sound quality?
Thanks,
Jake
In box speakers No Rez reduces cabinet coloration of the sound. Vocals are clearer, detail is improved, bass is tighter and better defined. It may seem expensive compared to alternatives but it really works well and is super easy to install. I’ve used it in towers and bookshelf speakers and got great results.
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Thanks, guys. I was specifically asking in reference to its application in a subwoofer and an open baffle sub at that. I thought maybe since Jay builds more of these than anybody else he might have listened to them with and without.
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Thanks, guys. I was specifically asking in reference to its application in a subwoofer and an open baffle sub at that. I thought maybe since Jay builds more of these than anybody else he might have listened to them with and without.
The effect on the open baffle woofers is the same. The bass response tightens up a bit and sounds cleaner across the board.
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Thanks, guys. I was specifically asking in reference to its application in a subwoofer and an open baffle sub at that. I thought maybe since Jay builds more of these than anybody else he might have listened to them with and without.
I have heard different sets of these, some with, some without no-rez but I've never had say a set of duals with and set without to do a direct a/b comparison.
I listened to a set of duals I through together for temp use with no no-rez..... had them in here for a bout 2 or 3 months and they sounded great. Had I ever gone and finished them (ended up using for another project) they'd have been treated with no-rez because I do believe there are improvements.
As mentioned, we use it for all our finished cabinets/speakers.... have done so ever since I first used it back with my Ob7 build.
It's money well spent.
jay
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got these wired up yesterday, now up and playing . Wow :o
Need to slice up some no rez now
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189605)
If we get things a bit more organized this aft, will get a couple more pics
jay
Hi, can I jump in late and ask a couple of questions please.
I can't see the HX800 amp on the GR website. Where does one find it or order it, and what is the price?
With one amp and multiple drivers, how do you wire up the servo function? From amp to one driver, or to all drivers?
thanks guys
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Hi, can I jump in late and ask a couple of questions please.
I can't see the HX800 amp on the GR website. Where does one find it or order it, and what is the price?
With one amp and multiple drivers, how do you wire up the servo function? From amp to one driver, or to all drivers?
thanks guys
Rythmik has discontinued the HX800 amps. The way we are now handling multiple groups is by using the A370XLR2 amps: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html
They can be used as a master and slave combination where the settings on one unit control them both. Or settings can be used individually to further control the response or each group.
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As Danny says, then you wire each group of 2 or 3 woofer driver coils in parallel, servo coils in series.
olarity depends on driver orientation. See here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149708.msg1600884#msg1600884
jay
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Rythmik has discontinued the HX800 amps. ...
Bummer. :(
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Bummer. :(
Actually I like the dual A370 amps better.
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Actually I like the dual A370 amps better.
They do take up twice as much floor space.
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They do take up twice as much floor space.
That's true.
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Rythmik has discontinued the HX800 amps. The way we are now handling multiple groups is by using the A370XLR2 amps: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html
They can be used as a master and slave combination where the settings on one unit control them both. Or settings can be used individually to further control the response or each group.
Oh thanks for this info. What about the HX600 amps? They are listed as 'New' on the Rhythmik web page you linked. But OTOH Hypex seem to have changed their HX series of plate amps over to FA series (Fusion), so maybe they are discontinued at source.
I won't deny I am partial to Hypex. Their Fusion plate amps have pretty nice EQ built-in, too. Is there any way to DIY adapt one of their stock amps for use as a servo amp with GRR's servo subwoofer SW-12-16FR? Or are the servo amps more customised than just have a couple of 'amplifier small leads' attached somewhere?
I also don't know how one decides when to use an XLR2 or an XLR3 variant of the Rhythmik amps.
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Oh thanks for this info. What about the HX600 amps? They are listed as 'New' on the Rhythmik web page you linked. But OTOH Hypex seem to have changed their HX series of plate amps over to FA series (Fusion), so maybe they are discontinued at source.
I won't deny I am partial to Hypex. Their Fusion plate amps have pretty nice EQ built-in, too. Is there any way to DIY adapt one of their stock amps for use as a servo amp with GRR's servo subwoofer SW-12-16FR? Or are the servo amps more customised than just have a couple of 'amplifier small leads' attached somewhere?
I also don't know how one decides when to use an XLR2 or an XLR3 variant of the Rhythmik amps.
I can shed some light on the XLR2 vs XLR3 question. The XLR2 has one pair of balanced inputs and one pair of balanced outputs. You would use this one when you want to daisy chain the input signal from one amp to another. The XLR3 has two pairs of balanced inputs but no balanced outputs. You use this version if you want to have more than one source sending a signal to the sub.
Mike
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:thumb: :beer:
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They do take up twice as much floor space.
They do but it's kind of irrelevant... the subs need to sit out from the wall say a min of 3' ... the amps typically sit right behind the sub tower so you're already using up that space........sort of :)
Yeah, the HX 800's were nice but n reality, the dual A370's probably offer more configuration options.
I do know where there is a pair of HX800's and stack of 4 per amp tha t might be available if someone o was intersted
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got these wired up yesterday, now up and playing . Wow :o
Need to slice up some no rez now
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189605)
If we get things a bit more organized this aft, will get a couple more pics
jay
Has anyone measured the OB subs with and without the alternating driver installations to determine what the deltas are between the 2 configurations ?
Would be nice to have a definitive answer on performance and distortion in addition to just weight distribution and aesthetics.
TIA
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Has anyone measured the OB subs with and without the alternating driver installations to determine what the deltas are between the 2 configurations ?
Would be nice to have a definitive answer on performance and distortion in addition to just weight distribution and aesthetics.
I'm interested in hearing more about this, too. I'm guessing there would be a subtle sonic difference between the two configurations, as well, due perhaps to how the subs load the room.
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I'm interested in hearing more about this, too. I'm guessing there would be a subtle sonic difference between the two configurations, as well, due perhaps to how the subs load the room.
FWIW, here are a couple of THD plots of my mono-triple (from 40Hz down) playing at 100dB. The mains are playing at 95dB +/-5dB from 40Hz upwards in this plot. From about 107Hz up, the complete system is under 1% THD and most of the system from 418Hz up is under 0.3% THD or @ 50dB down from the fundamental. Most of the sub is at 2.7% THD and under with three peaks, each peak is caused by the 5th, 3rd and 2nd harmonics in that order.
Most of the THD is comprised of 2nd, 3rd and 5th harmonic distortions (which have been disabled to more easily see the black THD plot), but a reduction in 2nd order should make a difference (at least to the plot). Reducing volume, reduces the THD levels below 40Hz to that of bass driver, so more sub drivers could help lower distortion. Davey mentioned in another thread that there would be a -15dB reduction in even order harmonic distortions by alternating driver directions (see second plot scaled in dB), but I don't think I can achieve that figure due to having an odd number of drivers (only 2 of the 3 would cancel).
Between the 2 plots, you can see the majority of the system's THD ranges from [2.7% to 0.3%] or @ [-30dB to -50dB] below the fundamental at this specific SPL.
Left scale is in % THD:
(https://i.imgur.com/m7eHmNw.jpg)
Left scale in dB for comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/xxgVMYx.jpg)
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FWIW, here are a couple of THD plots of my mono-triple (from 40Hz down) playing at 100dB. The mains are playing at 95dB +/-5dB from 40Hz upwards in this plot. From about 107Hz up, the complete system is under 1% THD and most of the system from 418Hz up is under 0.3% THD or @ 50dB down from the fundamental. Most of the sub is at 2.7% THD and under with three peaks, each peak is caused by the 5th, 3rd and 2nd harmonics in that order.
Most of the THD is comprised of 2nd, 3rd and 5th harmonic distortions (which have been disabled to more easily see the black THD plot), but a reduction in 2nd order should make a difference (at least to the plot). Reducing volume, reduces the THD levels below 40Hz to that of bass driver, so more sub drivers could help lower distortion. Davey mentioned in another thread that there would be a -15dB reduction in even order harmonic distortions by alternating driver directions (see second plot scaled in dB), but I don't think I can achieve that figure due to having an odd number of drivers (only 2 of the 3 would cancel).
Between the 2 plots, you can see the majority of the system's THD ranges from [2.7% to 0.3%] or @ [-30dB to -50dB] below the fundamental at this specific SPL.
I'm not sure if you realize this but the level of average room noise will be typical about 45 to 50db down as well. So the room noise will be as loud as the distortion levels that you are trying to measure and impossible to separate from the room noise. Outside of an anechoic chamber you are not likely to get any meaningful or consistent data.
And whether the distortion numbers are 1% or 3% isn't going to tell you anything about the way it sounds. You're looking at figures that are well down in output.
Distortion numbers also vary with output levels, and there is no industry standard for taking them. So there is no way of making meaningful comparisons to measurements made by someone else in another place.
What really tells the tale is to look at the spectral decay. This will show you the settling time. Audible differences here are quite significant especially when looking at servo controlled drivers.
But this also is difficult or impossible to measure in a room as you'll just be looking at how long it takes the signal to quite bouncing back and forth in the room rather than how long it takes the woofer to stop.
And like distortion numbers it will vary with output levels. So to make any meaningful comparisons you'll have to match output levels.
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Well, I may be the first to post actual measurements for the question, "Does alternating drivers help", but here goes.
Note, I am measuring a mono-triple in a 1.5" thick MDF H-Frame with normal cavity sizes of 13" x 13" x 6.5" crossed over @ 40Hz with a 48dB/octave slope. No mass loading membranes or open cell foam has been applied to the cavity walls. All measurements were taken without moving the mic located at the listening position and at the same volume and XO settings. At least 9 measurements were taken with all drivers facing forward and at least 9 were taken with the center driver of the triple reversed in a quiet room with no lights, HVAC, fans, etc. running.
For those that are concerned the measurements are being lost in the noise floor, here is a plot (all 3 drivers facing forward) showing THD, the Noise Floor and the first 1-9 harmonics. The noise floor is 15.7dB below the THD plot @ 25Hz and what I have been told from audio engineers, humans are suppose to be able to hear down into the noise floor, but by how much, I don't know. Since there is 15.7dB difference (THD versus Noise Floor) for this experiment, we won't have to go there. Also, harmonics below the noise floor have been greyed out in the plot.
(https://i.imgur.com/pPh1Yjc.jpg)
I think there has been 2 lingering questions about alternating drivers, 1) output levels and 2) sound quality (subjective and/or qualitative). Since my hearing is different from everyone else's, I can only share my measured plots and my perceptions of sound preferences.
Reminder: These tests are based on an odd number of drivers so I don't get equal cancellations like folks would who have even number of drivers.
As for #1, output levels, The calibrated mic only sees at most @ a 0.3 dB drop by reversing the center driver. I can get more boost by narrowing the cavity opening or increasing the plate amp's volume level to compensate. From my experiment, with the plate amp's volume level set to 11 O'Clock, I am not concerned with this in-room 0.3dB SPL drop which maybe different elsewhere in the room.
(https://i.imgur.com/jzIe1Bu.jpg)
As for #2, sound quality, there is a 2.3dB THD drop @ the 23.3Hz plateau and 4dB THD drop in the peak @ 38.3Hz (40 Hz crossover point, Purple is all facing forward, Blue has center reversed). Can this be heard, I don't know, but I am more than willing to accept this free lowering of the THD. FWIW, the peak at 38.3Hz is primarily comprised of the 2nd order harmonic distortion. The first two relatively unaffected peaks are comprised of odd order harmonics.
CORRECTION: Plot title is incorrect. Should read: "All Forward THD vs Center Reversed THD"
(https://i.imgur.com/KbyG0pc.jpg)
Comparing the multiple measurements, the preceding observations are pretty much consistent throughout. I would expect slightly better improvements using an even number of drivers.
Since we are DIYer's, we should all be interested in how to build/assemble our projects to get the best/cleanest sound possible. Hope this helps giving a quantitative data point on the original question of whether or not to alternate drivers.
Update:
For those concerned about reflections, here is an impulse response of the room and system. GIK Acoustics suggests all early reflections should be down at least 15-20dB within 20ms-40ms.
https://www.gikacoustics.com/unpacking-etc-time-domain-measurements-early-reflections/ (https://www.gikacoustics.com/unpacking-etc-time-domain-measurements-early-reflections/)
(https://i.imgur.com/PeG2h9x.jpg)
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You have spent some time on this producing some interesting information.
As for distortion numbers telling us how it will sound? I'd have to say that it is not going to be something that we can distinguish real well if at all by knocking something up or down several db in level on something that far down as the music is playing. It is perceived as part of the input signal too easily.
And if you are getting readings 15db above the noise floor then you have an exceptionally low noise floor. Typically there are close to par.
What is really impressive is the flat response to well below 20Hz. :thumb:
In the comparison of all facing forward verses on flipped it is not clear which is which.
And the most telling of all was the decay rate of the impulse response within the room. That is a huge amount of time that those long wavelengths are bounced around in the room before setting. Killing that and making it as fast as possible will have a much greater audible effect than anything.
Even when I measure and test a speaker, I see the impulse response and apply gating to do away with room reflections in the measurement. And by 2 to 4ms the speaker output has ended (with a 1 watt signal), but the wall, floor, and ceiling reflections carry on for a really long time comparably.
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And if you are getting readings 15db above the noise floor then you have an exceptionally low noise floor.
The plots are straight out of REW and a Cross Spectrum Calibrated MiniDSP UMIK-1 mic. Nothing has been altered. It is, what it is.
Typically there are close to par.
I could appreciate that. :thumb:
(https://i.imgur.com/oCM9YiD.jpg)
What is really impressive is the flat response to well below 20Hz. :thumb:
Actually, I am very happy with the flat response from 40Hz on down.
In the comparison of all facing forward verses on flipped it is not clear which is which.
Sorry that the description of the THD drops were not clear. Summary: Alternating the center driver resulted in at most a 0.3dB drop in SPL and a 2.3dB and 4dB drop in THD compared to all drivers facing forward. Purple is all facing forward. Blue is center driver reversed.
And the most telling of all was the decay rate of the impulse response within the room. That is a huge amount of time that those long wavelengths are bounced around in the room before setting. Killing that and making it as fast as possible will have a much greater audible effect than anything.
Actually, the early first reflections are down considerably within 20-40ms, but true, the waterfall plot can be improved in the sub frequencies. Part of that may be due to the open floor plan in the back of the room. Here is a plot out to 300ms. Mid-bass, mids and high frequencies are down @ 50dB in 300ms.
(https://i.imgur.com/PWL12wW.jpg)
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While we are talking about spectral decays....
For comparison, when I am measuring a speaker only (no room reflections) and show some woofer break up or ringing that carries on for an extra 2 to 3ms that is something that is often pretty easy to hear with music information within that area.
So just imagine how much the room reflections are affecting what we hear.
Fortunately anything arriving 6ms in time away from the fundamental is enough time for our ear to perceive it as a second event or later arrival.
Another biggie is how much cabinet wall resonances can add to what we hear. It can also be a large order of magnitude greater than measured THD from the drivers themselves.
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Very early in this thread a few people wanted a single instead of the double in a flat pack. Has there been any more thought about offering one? For me, space is the concern and mounting my main speaker on top of it would be ideal using two singles for left and right.
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Very early in this thread a few people wanted a single instead of the double in a flat pack. Has there been any more thought about offering one? For me, space is the concern and mounting my main speaker on top of it would be ideal using two singles for left and right.
We don't offer a amp and woofer combination designed for a single 12" woofer. To reach nominal SPL levels in open baffle a pair is also recommended.
They also don't have to be vertically stacked. They can be horizontally stacked.
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What is the difference in using two in separate boxes vs two in one box? I was planning on using the A370 mounted in a separate box that you offer,
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What is the difference in using two in separate boxes vs two in one box? I was planning on using the A370 mounted in a separate box that you offer,
Adding longer cables to the servo control system causes some delays in the control. It is recommend not to add any more cabling length than what is already connected to the amp. That's why we keep the amps located right behind each woofer cabinet.
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I did not think 4' to 5' to each driver would have such an impact. Thanks.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196767)
This is my first project. I realize it’s a bit ambitious to start with the NX-Oticas and the dual subs, but I figured I might as well jump in with both feet. So far, so good. I’m going to try and do the paint job myself. I’m testing out the results on the amp boxes now with some oil based gloss black.
Funny thing is, I cleared a small space in my garage to work and have spent half my time assembling workbenches and equipment. I didn’t realize that you already have to have handyman skills to become a handyman. :lol:
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That I clearly not my garage. This is my new space. I’m looking forward to a few more projects, if I can get this one right.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196768)
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How do I place order for pair of triples for my Servo Sub 5 kits. Still $870?
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How do I place order for pair of triples for my Servo Sub 5 kits. Still $870?
Email me @ captainhemo at shaw.ca
Prices are at the top of the first post on page 1.
jay
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I have a kind of basic question on these.
Let's say you're doing a double (2 driver) configuration. How are these wired to the amp? I see a lot of wiring with both sets of binding posts on each driver being used, but as a noob when it comes to subwoofer wiring I don't know why.
Is there a wiring diagram available anywhere?
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Is there a wiring diagram available anywhere?
Here it is...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200575)
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I believe the diagram is different if both drivers are facing forward.
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Jay posted a comprehensive set of wiring diagrams for the different possibilities of driver configuration. You can find those here https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149708.msg1600884#msg1600884
The reason both sets of terminals are used is because one set is for the driver coil and the other set is for the servo control coil. You have to use both, they have to be properly connected together, and connected to the correct pair of wires on the amp.
Mike
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If you are using a HX800 amp the color codes are different for each channel, so get them wired correctly. If not one half the sub is reversed polarity and cancels the output from the other side. Took me a while to figure that out.
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Jay posted a comprehensive set of wiring diagrams for the different possibilities of driver configuration. You can find those here https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149708.msg1600884#msg1600884
The reason both sets of terminals are used is because one set is for the driver coil and the other set is for the servo control coil. You have to use both, they have to be properly connected together, and connected to the correct pair of wires on the amp.
Mike
This is perfect, thank you!
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I have another noob question. I'm finding it difficult to locate 1" MDF in my area (northern NJ). Would it be feasible to glue two 1/2" sheets together for the main baffle? Or should I look for 1" plywood or some other material?
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I have another noob question. I'm finding it difficult to locate 1" MDF in my area (northern NJ). Would it be feasible to glue two 1/2" sheets together for the main baffle? Or should I look for 1" plywood or some other material?
Gluing up sheets of MDF is not a problem.
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If you are using a HX800 amp the color codes are different for each channel, so get them wired correctly. If not one half the sub is reversed polarity and cancels the output from the other side. Took me a while to figure that out.
A little late to this but, I also posted the wiring color codes for the different amps in that thread as well
There's schematics as well as written step by step instructions to wire these things up in different configs.. just pck the right setup for your build
jay
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Satin white (20 degree sheen) duals with amp boxes/ grill frames.
Big .5" radius on all outer edges and a smaller, .25" radius on inner edge of grill recess and on allouter edges of amp boxes
3/8 x 3/8 N52 cylinder magnets were pre-installed from rear of braces.
We were going to wrap the grills in white but the customer is stillundecided on color so he'll be wrapping them himself.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201640)
jay
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I don't imagine I get a vote, but the black drivers with some black no-see-um grill net would be really striking. But then I'm all about no-see-um grills since using it. Sheer and sexy, ya know!
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I don't imagine I get a vote, but the black drivers with some black no-see-um grill net would be really striking. But then I'm all about no-see-um grills since using it. Sheer and sexy, ya know!
Well, I think you just volted :lol:
Hopefully when he gets them all fisnished up and playing he'll share some pics here or send me some to post
jay
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Jay,
What type of paint and topcoat did you use on those?
Mike
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It's Valspar Cloud White and a Valspar 20 degree Clear Lacquer on tp.
jay
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Is that a latex paint?
Mike
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Is that a latex paint?
Mike
I doubt it under top coat, Mike, assuming solvent based lacquer. Most lacquer can be tinted enough to be opaque, which the method most often used by cabinet manufacturers for a "painted" finish. In the furniture and car finishing worlds, acrylics (latex is an acrylic resin) have almost no place where they perform well. Better on walls.
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I doubt it under top coat, Mike, assuming solvent based lacquer. Most lacquer can be tinted enough to be opaque, which the method most often used by cabinet manufacturers for a "painted" finish. In the furniture and car finishing worlds, acrylics (latex is an acrylic resin) have almost no place where they perform well. Better on walls.
That’s what I thought but when I looked up Valspar Cloud White I only got results foe Lowes latex paint
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It's just a color name. Places that provide finishes to industry can tint to any color in my ginormous color fan sourced from a paint supplier with all the funny names. They also run under the radar of the general population, being targeted mostly at industry for a variety of reasons. Nasty solvents being one of them.
And FWIW, although sheen is often expressed in "degrees", it's actually referring to a percentage. It's the percentage of reflected light from a given surface measured with a Glossmeter. No kidding, there is such a tool! A glossy surface reflects a higher % than matte, for example. "Matte" or "dull" typically around 15-25% sheen although the "matte" part is largely at the discretion of manufacturer. There is no real standard for terms like "gloss", "semi-gloss" "satin" etc.
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Is that a latex paint?
Mike
No, it's lacquer
jay
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It's just a color name. Places that provide finishes to industry can tint to any color in my ginormous color fan sourced from a paint supplier with all the funny names. They also run under the radar of the general population, being targeted mostly at industry for a variety of reasons. Nasty solvents being one of them.
And FWIW, although sheen is often expressed in "degrees", it's actually referring to a percentage. It's the percentage of reflected light from a given surface measured with a Glossmeter. No kidding, there is such a tool! A glossy surface reflects a higher % than matte, for example. "Matte" or "dull" typically around 15-25% sheen although the "matte" part is largely at the discretion of manufacturer. There is no real standard for terms like "gloss", "semi-gloss" "satin" etc.
Peter summed it right up :)
This customer wanted a finish closer to dull as opposed to gloos or even "satin" . The Valspar 20 degree ( ort so it is called) fit the bill nicely... it gives just a bit of sheen but without being overly relfective.
jay
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jay,
can you please email me with the total cost for a dual triple H frames shipped to 23301? What is the total weight? How many boxes and dimensions?
Thanks very much
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This may be a stupid question, but how do these amps get the input signal? Do you need a preamp with two sets of outputs or can you use a splitter near the amps?
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This may be a stupid question, but how do these amps get the input signal? Do you need a preamp with two sets of outputs or can you use a splitter near the amps?
If you only have one set of outputs from your preamp then you can use splitters otherwise it’s probably better to have a preamp with dual outputs. You can also go off of your amplifier speaker outputs if you have the A370PEQ.
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I use a Jensen Iso-Max thats connected to the binding post of my amp and outputs either RCA or XLR depending on what you need.
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If you only have one set of outputs from your preamp then you can use splitters otherwise it’s probably better to have a preamp with dual outputs. You can also go off of your amplifier speaker outputs if you have the A370PEQ.
Thanks. Is there any consensus on what sounds better (using a preamp's 2 sets of outputs, splitting a preamps single set of outputs, or using high level speaker inputs) or is it one of those things you just have to try? Is there a manual somewhere for the A370PEQ? That's probably what I'll use because I'm thinking a pair of dual 12s may be enough for my current room [18.5' x 13.5' x 7.5' with two openings on one end (2.5' and 4.0' wide)], but I'd like to be able to step up to a pair of triple 12s at some point if I end up with a bigger room. Will a pair or dual 12s work okay in this room? If this isn't the appropriate place for these question, feel free to delete them.
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I use a Jensen Iso-Max thats connected to the binding post of my amp and outputs either RCA or XLR depending on what you need.
As you know Mike, I'm doing the same thing here.
IIRC, you were at one time high passing your main amp for the Super 7's..... did you remember to remove that inline cap ?
jay
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Thanks. Is there any consensus on what sounds better (using a preamp's 2 sets of outputs, splitting a preamps single set of outputs, or using high level speaker inputs) or is it one of those things you just have to try? Is there a manual somewhere for the A370PEQ? That's probably what I'll use because I'm thinking a pair of dual 12s may be enough for my current room [18.5' x 13.5' x 7.5' with two openings on one end (2.5' and 4.0' wide)], but I'd like to be able to step up to a pair of triple 12s at some point if I end up with a bigger room. Will a pair or dual 12s work okay in this room? If this isn't the appropriate place for these question, feel free to delete them.
I would place them in this order, best to worst, but deltas maybe small.
- using a preamp's 2 sets of outputs
- splitting a preamps single set of outputs
- using high level speaker inputs
#2 Will have 3dB lower output than #1, but can be compensated either on the pre/pro's side (sub out volume control) or the plate amps volume control.
#3 High level outputs are usually the last or convenience resort.
More information can be found here: http://gr-research.com/a370peq.aspx (http://gr-research.com/a370peq.aspx)
Manuals can be downloaded from here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html)
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Duals will work well in a room of that size... prety close to mine and have had duals in one form or another in here for ages.
jay
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Jay, yes I remover the caps. Had no choice, as I no longer have any interconnects in my system with my new PM and the caps were in a XLR splitter cable.
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Right, forgot you had the new integrated, duh on my part LOL
Enjoy, it's a great piece
jay
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Yes, it's only got about 50 hours on it and it blowing my away, can't wait till it's burned in.
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Thanks for all the help so far. Here's my room right now with no real tuning at all. The only acoustic treatments I have are absorption panels (3" of OC 703) at the first reflection points on the walls. The speakers are Magnepan 3.6Rs. Adding a pair of dual 12 OBs is about $2500. Is it worth it? Is gaining extension down to 15hz or so going to add enough to the music to justify the expense? I listen to jazz, classical, and rock. Talk me into it.
(https://i.imgur.com/8ZuMvau.jpg)
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Thanks for all the help so far. Here's my room right now with no real tuning at all. The only acoustic treatments I have are absorption panels (3" of OC 703) at the first reflection points on the walls. The speakers are Magnepan 3.6Rs. Adding a pair of dual 12 OBs is about $2500. Is it worth it? Is gaining extension down to 15hz or so going to add enough to the music to justify the expense? I listen to jazz, classical, and rock. Talk me into it.
IME it's not really about extension, it's about power. Panel speakers, even large ones, have good, tuneful bass. But visceral, punchy, MEAN bass? Uh, no.
Before the servo OB subs came along, the only way to get powerful bass was with a box. And boxed bass is crazy hard to integrate with a planar main speaker.
The beauty of servo OB subs is you get all the power and punch while not losing any detail or musicality. You truly can have your cake and eat it too.
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Yup , brings Ray Brown to life :)
jay
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This may be a stupid question, but how do these amps get the input signal? Do you need a preamp with two sets of outputs or can you use a splitter near the amps?
I have a similar question but more around the impedance matching between the preamp output and the amplifier input. My tube preamp does have two outputs but they're in parallel, probably like most preamps with dual outputs, and has an output impedance of 600Ohms (@ 1KHz). One output is already driving a tube amplifier with 100KOhms input impedance. The Hypex amp appears to have an extremely low 1,800Ohm input impedance which on paper should be a (very) poor match for most tube preamps. The A370PEQ is much better in this respect with a 30KOhm input impedance but most 12" Rythmic subs appear to only come with the Hypex. Is this impedance matching something to seriously consider when picking the right subwoofer model or this is an example where the real life application does not support the measurements. Thanks.
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(http://cdn.stereophile.com/images/CAF2016-GTAudio-600.jpg)
I love the look of exposed drivers, but the no rez, in my opinion, looks terrible. Has anyone ever made a grill frame like they are typically built but with a wider perimeter and cross piece in the center? The idea is that the wider frame will cover up the exposed edges of the no rez. The frame can then be painted the same color as the cabinet. Will this have a negative effect on performance or will it be purely cosmetic? It should improve the appearance considerably if not using grills.
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I love the look of exposed drivers, but the no rez, in my opinion, looks terrible. Has anyone ever made a grill frame like they are typically built but with a wider perimeter and cross piece in the center? The idea is that the wider frame will cover up the exposed edges of the no rez. The frame can then be painted the same color as the cabinet. Will this have a negative effect on performance or will it be purely cosmetic? It should improve the appearance considerably if not using grills.
The foam on the NoRez is mostly acoustically transparent so if you cover its edges it effectively changes the sonic characteristics of the cabinet. Essentially puts a semi-back on cabinet.
There are some alternatives. Here's one:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.200
I think that photo sort of highlights the NoRez.
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If you make the frame out of 1" x 3/4" hardwood (I've used both poplar and oak, you don't need a cross piece.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204107)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204108)
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The foam on the NoRez is mostly acoustically transparent so if you cover its edges it effectively changes the sonic characteristics of the cabinet. Essentially puts a semi-back on cabinet.
There are some alternatives. Here's one:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.200
I think that photo sort of highlights the NoRez.
I really like the compound bevel look of this NoRez build. It gives it a very finished look.
FWIW, I rotate my drivers by 45 degrees (so the posts are in the corners, NW/SE or NE/SW versus E/W or N/S) to give my big mitts some more room to access the speaker binding posts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150675)
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I really like the compound bevel look of this NoRez build. It gives it a very finished look.
FWIW, I rotate my drivers by 45 degrees (so the posts are in the corners, NW/SE or NE/SW versus E/W or N/S) to give my big mitts some more room to access the speaker binding posts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150675)
Yes it does. I've built two pair like that. However, when you miter the NoRez it takes twice as much compared to straight cuts.
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I really like the compound bevel look of this NoRez build. It gives it a very finished look.
FWIW, I rotate my drivers by 45 degrees (so the posts are in the corners, NW/SE or NE/SW versus E/W or N/S) to give my big mitts some more room to access the speaker binding posts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150675)
I agree. That's a very nicely done pair, but I would still like to cover up the norez, but not if there's a sonic penalty. Does anyone know specifically how covering it up as described above will change the sonics?
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Seem like if you wanted to get real creative you could wrap the NoRez with grill fabric. (that would be a challenge to implement) That should not affect its performance significantly. Personally I would use grills if for no other reason but to help keep dust out.
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I agree. That's a very nicely done pair, but I would still like to cover up the norez, but not if there's a sonic penalty. Does anyone know specifically how covering it up as described above will change the sonics?
My grill frames cover the bottom strip of NoRez and I can't tell any difference with the grills on or off. It looks like your grill frames would only cover the top and bottom strips of NoRez so I doubt you would notice any difference either.
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Yes it does. I've built two pair like that. However, when you miter the NoRez it takes twice as much compared to straight cuts.
If doing the mitered edges/corners, plan on a sheet per driver ... 8 mitered pieces per.
jay
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My grill frames cover the bottom strip of NoRez and I can't tell any difference with the grills on or off. It looks like your grill frames would only cover the top and bottom strips of NoRez so I doubt you would notice any difference either.
No, my idea is to cover all sides of the exposed NoRez (top, bottom, right, and left of both driver cavities). I won't do it if there's a sonic penalty, but it doesn't look like anyone's tried it yet.
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No, my idea is to cover all sides of the exposed NoRez (top, bottom, right, and left of both driver cavities). I won't do it if there's a sonic penalty, but it doesn't look like anyone's tried it yet.
Why would your grill frame cover the outside or middle strips of NoRez? You have MDF on the outside of the vertical pieces of MDF for the grill frame to rest and a MDF brace between the center pieces of NoRez if you use a cross brace in the grill frame. So the grill frame would only cover the top and bottom horizontal pieces of NoRez. The grill cloth is acoustically transparent so it doesn’t matter if it covers the NoRez.
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If doing the mitered edges/corners, plan on a sheet per driver ... 8 mitered pieces per.
jay
I must be cutting the NoRez different than you. It takes me one sheet per 12” driver if I straight cut it and two sheets per driver when I cut 45 miters
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Why would your grill frame cover the outside or middle strips of NoRez? You have MDF on the outside of the vertical pieces of MDF for the grill frame to rest and a MDF brace between the center pieces of NoRez if you use a cross brace in the grill frame. So the grill frame would only cover the top and bottom horizontal pieces of NoRez. The grill cloth is acoustically transparent so it doesn’t matter if it covers the NoRez.
The goal is to make the frame wider to purposefully cover the exposed edges of the NoRez. No grill cloth will be used. The frames will then be painted the same color as the cabinet. The whole idea is to preserve the exposed driver look while covering up the not so great looking NoRez.
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Ahhhh, now I get what your after.
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I must be cutting the NoRez different than you. It takes me one sheet per 12” driver if I straight cut it and two sheets per driver when I cut 45 miters
Cut each piece in half so you have 2 pieces 24" x 13.5".... then, cut your 45's at the end of each peice to make them 24" 13" ( or just a hair under 13") with a 45 bevel at each end. Now you can rip each piece into 4 13" x 5 7/8" ( or noarrowier if you have rabbets at front for grills). If you don't have the rabbets, leave the baffle side 5/8" away from baffle)j.
Now set your saw back to 45 and cut a 45 ( or wahtever angle you choose) alonge each 13" side to create the forward/rearward facing bevels.
That will give you your 8 pieces per woofer
jay
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The goal is to make the frame wider to purposefully cover the exposed edges of the NoRez. No grill cloth will be used. The frames will then be painted the same color as the cabinet. The whole idea is to preserve the exposed driver look while covering up the not so great looking NoRez.
You could skip the NoRez all together. Many people do with no complaints.
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Cut each piece in half so you have 2 pieces 24" x 13.5".... then, cut your 45's at the end of each peice to make them 24" 13" ( or just a hair under 13") with a 45 bevel at each end. Now you can rip each piece into 4 13" x 5 7/8" ( or noarrowier if you have rabbets at front for grills). If you don't have the rabbets, leave the baffle side 5/8" away from baffle)j.
Now set your saw back to 45 and cut a 45 ( or wahtever angle you choose) alonge each 13" side to create the forward/rearward facing bevels.
That will give you your 8 pieces per woofer
jay
I’ve been cutting the pieces 6-1/4” wide so the damping material goes almost up to the driver then cutting the foam back so the driver has room.
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I’ve been cutting the pieces 6-1/4” wide so the damping material goes almost up to the driver then cutting the foam back so the driver has room.
You are fine if you are within .5 or .625 etc of the baffle... the panel is braced solidly from top to bottom by the bafle in that area. Then, instead of cutting the foam back, just bevel it on the inside edge too. I'd say cut the 24x13 pieces into 4 13x6" but you have to account for the 1/8" blade . We acutally cut them a little narrower due to the 20mm rabbet at front edge for grill recess's 5.75" will butt them right up against the baffle if you have the rabbet.
jay
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Hi .
I am have been following this thread since the beginning . Finally i decided that the best option for me to add low frequency extension and impact to my Spatial Audio X2 speakers is a pairopen baffle subwoofer . So afyer talking to Both Danny from GR research and Jay I decided to order the kits. Everything arrived in pristine condition and me and my friend put together the frames and the Amp boxes this weekend . Very meticulous engineering and as no surprise to anyone who have put them together it was fun and no headaches . The next step is painting . Then finish the subs . I have to say that i have a lot of respect for the Gentlemen mentioned above . The are accessible friendly and very knowlegable . There are no questions trivial to them . I attached my pictures of the work in progress . I will post the finished project when its done .
Tamas
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205136)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205137)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205138)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205139)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205140)
The last image is my listening room . Once the subs are done i am going to experiment putting the speakers on the long wall to see if it would be better . My room is not symmetrical as the right side of the room is open .
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Oh man, in that room the servo subs are going to crush it. You are in for a treat!
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Hey great job! Planning to build a set this summer. I bet they are going to be the perfect match for the Spatial's. Please post your impressions once you have them up and running. Looks like you have lots of room to try different placement options. Have fun!
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Thanks for sahring juszat :thumb:
Glad the assembly went well for .
You're gonna be loving your bass son
jay
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Here's a shot of three different configurations. A customer asked about quads in a non-modular form so they are now an option. This one has .5" roundovers on all external edges and is setup for opposing drivers. As always, large roundover on rear of woofer cutouts and all driver mouinting screws/wire pass throughs are pre-drilled. These things are beasts, each weighs in at approx 115-120 lbs.
The triple shown also has all external edges rounded ove but has all 3 woofers facing forwards. This set also has front grill frames with preinstalled N52 3/8x3/8 cylinder magnets installed from rear side of braceing and backside of grill frames.
The dual 12 in the pic has nnot had any customer requested additions, it will be sent down to our friend and collegue Peter J who is going to do an assembly video to show folks just how easy these are to assemble :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205475)
I'll post some more pics of the quads once we pack some stuff up and make some room.
jay
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Having made my own dual sub cabinets like these back before these were being offered, anyone who chooses to make their own is way wacky. After completing both cabinets I decided that was the end of my speaker building hobby. Buy these and be happy.
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Here's a pair of triples we've been working on fora customer who has been extremely patient with us while the cabinets were held up in paint.
Finished in House of Kolor black and their Show Clear. Any final polishing will take place later this week. There are matching amp boxes and front grills will be wrapeped in black cloth before shipping.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205650)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205651)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205652)
Here's a short little walk around video, sorry for the quality :(
https://youtu.be/cdpq1NVzsUo
jay
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A few after final polishing.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206079)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206080)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206081)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206082)
jay
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Beautiful Jay, just gorgeous!
For those wondering, getting to this level of finish is incredibly time and material intensive. House of Kolor products are considered to be some of the best in the industry and I doubt anyone would call them inexpensive.
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They look beautiful. I am sure they look better in person!
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Simply top-notch. Do want :D
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Beautiful cabinets and finish. Very Jealous !!!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208230)
jay
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Do you anchor the plate amp to the amp box with the provided screws or just place the amplifier on the box ?
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Do you anchor the plate amp to the amp box with the provided screws or just place the amplifier on the box ?
Yes, lay the amp in place, drill small pilot holes (3/64 or so) and install a screw after drilling each hole. Don't tighten them all down until after they are all drilled and in place I always do them in a criss cross pettern to keep everything aligned. There is a decent gasket/felt on the bottom side of the amp so you can go around a nd snug them all down after intial installation. I always use a bit shorter screw than what comes with the amps as well, no need to go really deep with these
JAY
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Thank you Jay . I will do that . I would like to discuss another more troubling issue . So i put together the Speakon connectors both the female coming from the amp and the male and connected them together . I am running an XLR connection from my preamp to the amp . I set the subwoofer as it was recommended by Rhythmic and turned on the system but there was no sound coming out from any of the two subs . I switched the preamp output ( I have two per side to make sure that is not the problem . My speakers work but not the subs . No sound whatsoever . Any suggestion what might causing it ?
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first and most obvious, are the amps on or if set to auto , are they turning on ?
Settings I like to start with:
PEQ OFF
Phase 180
C/o 80 ( adjust to suit what you need)
Volume 11 o'clock
C/O Slope AVR / 12
Rumble Filter OFF
Damping LOW
Extension 20
We once had a set of triples that didn't play at all right out of the gate, after say 5 inutes, they slowly began to play... I don't know if the suspensions were super tight or what but they never had an issue again... it was wierd but it did occur. If you double check all your wiring and the amps are indeed turning on, let thejm "play for a few minutes, see if they wake up
jay
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This one's heading over seas
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208355)
jay
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When I got my first sealed servo sub built and fired up for the first time I too got nothing. I ran pink noise through it and just let it play. I could feel it move slightly so I figured it was just stiff. Within an hour I started hearing the walls of my apartment shake. It got there.
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When I got my first sealed servo sub built and fired up for the first time I too got nothing. I ran pink noise through it and just let it play. I could feel it move slightly so I figured it was just stiff. Within an hour I started hearing the walls of my apartment shake. It got there.
Yeah, I think some of them are just really stiff right out of the box
jay
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thank you for the suggestions . i connected everything again .I also took pictures of my wiring including the speaker connectors . I am playing a HSU research Bass management cd which has live recordings of a lot of really low frequency sound and a few pink noise sweeps . As soon as the album start playing the Subwoofer which is set to auto turns green on both amps . so i will give it a time . In the meantime I am attaching the pictures if anybody will see something obviously wrong . The cables with the green tapes on is my wires coming from the servo coils .
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I'm betting they start to play after some time.... if the lights turn green on the amps, the input signal is being detected and triggering the auto on circuit.
You'll likely start to notice some movement of the woofers soon and the music will follow
jay
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208365)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208366)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208367)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208368)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208369)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208370)
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The above images are my right subwoofers and their speakon . As i noted in my previous post the green label indicates the servo coil . I followed the driver coil 1+( red) thicker wire from the amp to the 1+ ( red to the subwoofer . 1- ( white thick) to 1-( white) to the driver coil and the same logic in the servo coils as well .
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What I can add to this after playing the Bass optimization disc twice ( 45 min disc) that my subwoofers are not responding . I can't feel any vibrations by touching any of the four woofers . So I think I either made a wiring error but I checked it three time ( pictures included ) or perhaps both of my plate amps are faulty which is to be honest would surprise me . both looks identical and their connections are all solid . no loose wires . there is a tiny transformer hum when I plug them in but it quickly falls into silence .
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Servo leads in series right ?
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149708.msg1600884#msg1600884
I know this is an obvious one but... you did strip back say 1" or so of wire jacket before inserting and tightening in the connectors ? Have you used a meter to check continuity from amp side of circuit to terminals on drivers ?
Once you get them working, I'd suggest twisting up each set of leads
jay
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Jay .
Life is about learning through experience . I called Danny who ever patiently walked me through all the possible troubleshooting steps . Finally I ended up restarting everything from scratch connecting and turning the system back up again ( mind you i have never used a speakon connector ) so incidentally I twisted the connector 20 degree and felt a snap . I did it on the other side and voila the whole system came alive . So today's lesson is that there are lot we may able to fix by turning thing just 20 degree in the right direction . As of today I have become one of the new member of the Open Baffle Subwoofer community . Many thanks to you and and Danny who made it happen . I can see without even setting it up properly that this is going to be a new beginning to experience music .
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Awsome, glad they came to life Amazing what the little "click" does huh :thumb:
Just wait youi dial them in
Enjoy your new subs man
jay
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hi im new to this forum and intrested in ordering a set of these sub cabinets to build like i don't have enough to fix or re do around the house . lol can i get a idea on what the shipping and cost will be for a set of twin sub cabinets ? and shipped to 10573 thats new york . thanks I'm so interested in building them to go with my set of maggies i have re built . i had maggies 30 years ago and always felt they would do much better with a sub and releleaved of some of the bass they make . thanks mark
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hi im new to this forum and intrested in ordering a set of these sub cabinets to build like i don't have enough to fix or re do around the house . lol can i get a idea on what the shipping and cost will be for a set of twin sub cabinets ? and shipped to 10573 thats new york . thanks I'm so interested in building them to go with my set of maggies i have re built . i had maggies 30 years ago and always felt they would do much better with a sub and releleaved of some of the bass they make . thanks mark
Mark,
You have enough posts you should be able to PM Jay, Captainhemo, about the costs.
You will be amazed at the combo of your Maggies and these subs. Have fun.
Mike
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hi im new to this forum and intrested in ordering a set of these sub cabinets to build like i don't have enough to fix or re do around the house . lol can i get a idea on what the shipping and cost will be for a set of twin sub cabinets ? and shipped to 10573 thats new york . thanks I'm so interested in building them to go with my set of maggies i have re built . i had maggies 30 years ago and always felt they would do much better with a sub and releleaved of some of the bass they make . thanks mark
Mark
Shoot me an email at captainhemo at shaw.ca
jay
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This is great news for me too. I'm moving to Vancouver Washington around the end of December or early January, so may be able to avoid needing you to ship me a pair, which won't be cheap. Talk to you later Jay---Eric.
sorry to bring up this old post but i see you may live close to me and i had questions about the sound these produce, i am 100% down to get and make these but have no idea what they sound like. i live in orchards
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Guys,
for the triple stack when you are daisy chaining speaker terminals on the dc side, are you twisting speaker cables ends together, soldering, or just inserting them side by side in each terminal . The wires provided by GR research are solid copper and appear to be difficult to twist together. If twisted will the twisted pair fit into the terminal opening?
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Guys,
for the triple stack when you are daisy chaining speaker terminals on the dc side, are you twisting speaker cables ends together, soldering, or just inserting them side by side in each terminal . The wires provided by GR research are solid copper and appear to be difficult to twist together. If twisted will the twisted pair fit into the terminal opening?
They'll twist well and hold well. Put something on them and give them a tight twist then just slide them into the binding posts.
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You can slip them in the quick connects side by side,works fine. Just make sure you give thjem a little "tug" to be sure they are biting.
Have also soldered them in the past.... hard to get the 2 16awg solid wires to sit nice onthe smallish tabs though. If you're going to solder, do it pre-no rez , much easier.
jay
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hi guys i just got my set of flat packs from jay via ups. all i can say i was amazed by his packing job first. than when i took them all out the quality of workmanship is top notch as is the material . putting the first one together was a peace of cake and it went together completely square with 5 clamps . thanks jay for this great product you and danny have a great thing going here .
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Glad they are going together well for you. We dry fit everything and typically give everything a light sanding after final baffle machining (roundovers / wiring holes depending on driver orientation) and any other routing extras are done.
Feel free to post some pictures when you all done if you like.
Also, thank you for the feedback always appreciate it.
And finally, packing credit goes to Don (endo2112), he's the master packer that makes these things pretty much bomb proof
jay
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214515)
hi guys got my subs up and running and couldn't be happier with them . thanks danny and jay for your great products and workmanship as they wouldn't have come out as nice as they did without your engineering . a few pics of them i still need to dial them in better and play with placement . my room is tough and getting smaller every day lol.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214511)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214512)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214513)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214514)
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Awesome!!! I like how you have them connected to the amps. Are the wheels temporary?
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Awesome!!! I like how you have them connected to the amps. Are the wheels temporary?
ya there the nutrik connectors danny recommends they work well and are well made .
yes the castors are temp for now as i have to move speakers back when I'm not listening to them . in another year or so when i retire and move i will have a room set up as my man cave and put spikes on the subs I'm thinking there just too dam heavy to lift them now to slide out of the way .
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You might consider Herbie's Gliders. They would slide easily on your wood floors while providing a good foundation for the subs. I'm using them on my triple subs and they work great.
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You might consider Herbie's Gliders. They would slide easily on your wood floors while providing a good foundation for the subs. I'm using them on my triple subs and they work great.
Yep.
I use Auralex Acoustics SubDude-II Subwoofer Acoustic Isolation Platforms underneath my OB subs. Makes them easy to slide on my wood floor. I also screwed metal handles onto my amp boxes to make them easier to carry.
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is there i issue with using castors i picked the ones with the softest wheels so they could aid in dampening ? kicking a few ideas around my head to use both possibly retractable spikes ?
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is there i issue with using castors i picked the ones with the softest wheels so they could aid in dampening ? kicking a few ideas around my head to use both possibly retractable spikes ?
With either wheels or spikes or Herbies or whatever, the goal is to stabilize the speakers so they don't vibrate while playing. A simple test is to listen with wheels on, then wheels off. Crank up the volume. If there's no audible difference, put the wheels back on.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214515)
hi guys got my subs up and running and couldn't be happier with them . thanks danny and jay for your great products and workmanship as they wouldn't have come out as nice as they did without your engineering . a few pics of them i still need to dial them in better and play with placement . my room is tough and getting smaller every day lol.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214511)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214512)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214513)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214514)
Nice job man, they look great :thumb:
Enjoy !
jay
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I'm just about to start a build of the H Frames and need help!
Anyone have a shopping list of exactly what I need to build the flat packs?
And what are the easiest and best painting options?
Thanks in advance! I'm a doctor and haven't built anything since the subs for my blazer 20 years ago.
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Clamps, glue, sander. I couldn’t afford a pro finish so I painted them with Duratex.
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What size clamps? How many? And what brand of glue?
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What size clamps? How many? And what brand of glue?
This might be helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBmmJzS_iU&t=2336s
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What size clamps? How many? And what brand of glue?
Ok, for a minimum glue up 4 18" clamps for duals and 6 if they are the triples but remember, that is bare minimum... more is always nice as you can add them to other places..... The dowels in the base / top / side panels take care of the alignment, so really, you only NEED to clamp across the braces to squeeze the cabinet together and from front brace to rear brace to keep them up against the baffle.
In Peter's video, you'll see I recommended assembling them upside down and not to glued the top on during the first step, it is actually done last.... instead, you want to glue the baffle, side panels, and braces using the top as a jig. Then the base to the exposed end facing up using the 4 dowels for alignment. The base has 4 counter sunk screws so no clamps required here.
Once the glue sets up, unclamp and flip the cabinet over (right side up). Now knock the unglued top off and glue it down using the 4 clamps (they'll clamp from the top to the braces) ... I'd use a small piece ctive piece of scrap between the clamps and face of cabinet top.
Titebond glue will be fine, or, get the Titebond Extends if you want a bit of extra open (work) time
jay
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Does anyone know of someone near Eastern Iowa area that runs a pair of the GR open baffle subwoofers?
Thanks
Don
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to say thanks to Jay for my new sub cabinets. I ordered a pair of dual 12 open baffle subs. Very high quality work, and excellent shipping and packaging. No damage.
Tom
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Thanks Tom, appreciate the feedback.
We send out Tom's pair all glued up with preinstalled magnets in the cabs and grill frames. Fairly well prepped so only minor work required before finishing at your end. Boxes end up being larger so there is an higher shipping cost involved but, it is an additional service we can provide.
jay
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Hi - just checking in to see what shipping / lead time is currently looking like? Am planning on a pair of doubles to go with my Magnepan 3.7i.
Thank you!
CD
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We currently have quite a list of folks waiting on a variety of cabinets. We are trying to get through them as fast as we can ....
Best thing to do is get your name in our "queue" by emailing me at captainhemo at shaw.ca..... we're trying to fill orders in the order that they were received
jay
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do we get on the list and purchase these via email?
can we get holes sized for alpha 15a's?
anyone have any luck running those woofers in the dual h-frame? (trying to keep cost down...)
thks tim
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do we get on the list and purchase these via email?
can we get holes sized for alpha 15a's?
anyone have any luck running those woofers in the dual h-frame? (trying to keep cost down...)
thks tim
My email address is in the post directly above yours.
What is the outer diameter of those woofers... I doubt they'd even fit inthe cabinets.....
jay
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I sent you an email about purchasing a set of duals.
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Sorry, wasn't notified of this post.... did we get you sorted out ? Not sure from your user name....
jay
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Hi - just checking in to see what shipping / lead time is currently looking like? Am planning on a pair of doubles to go with my Magnepan 3.7i.
Thank you!
CD
I strongly recommend triples. You'd be surprised how much difference the added driver makes and it doesn't take up anymore floor space than the doubles. The triples would also balance out visually with the Maggies better. Here's a pic of triples with a pair of Martin Logan Summit Xs
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220671)
These have A370-XLR3 amps built into the bottom of the the towers. If you keep the amps separate the towers would be shorter accordingly.
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Sorry, wasn't notified of this post.... did we get you sorted out ? Not sure from your user name....
jay
Haven’t heard anything jay, Still want some though. Not sure if you want to private message or email me. Your choice. My email is not the same as my username.
Squeak (justin)
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I sent you an email about purchasing a set of duals.
Sorry, wasn't notified of this post.... did we get you sorted out ? Not sure from your user name....
jay
So does this mean there is a Dual OB Sub Flatpack available? I did not see it listed on the website.
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So does this mean there is a Dual OB Sub Flatpack available? I did not see it listed on the website.
You'll need to message Captainhemo directly to purchase since he's the on that offers then.
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So does this mean there is a Dual OB Sub Flatpack available? I did not see it listed on the website.
Yes, we've have been shipping duasls, triples, and quads to customer for over 5 years... they used to be on the GR site, not sure why they are not any longer....
The quality kits, service and support our customers have become used to are still available here !
All the information about these is on page 1, first post... I try to keep that up to date.
In a nutshell, we use ultra refined, solid 1.5 Plum Creek MDF for the side panels, top and bottom plates so there no seams to telegraph through paint down the road. Baffles and bracing are made from 1" Medex. All wiring pass through and pilot holes for drivers are pre-drilled, large roundover are added to rear of baffles. More options are available after discussing
Kits are very easy to assemble, everything is either dado'd or doweled.
As posted earlier in this thread, Peter did an assembly video of one of our cabinets for us, it can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBmmJzS_iU
All the different wiring drawings and write ups I did for the different cabinets are here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149708.msg1600884#msg1600884n
Email me at captainhemo@shaw.ca
jay
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Time to kick start this thread again with some modular sub building.
Just received from Jay the new pair of H-Frame OB servo sub flat packs to change my 2x12 servo subs to 3x12's. Will be doing a glue-up over the next week, then taking them to my local finishing group for the gloss Hot Rod Black finish.
First step, the box arrived in fine condition. It is SOLID! :) Will be unboxing and taking pictures as I go.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222674)
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Great to see they have arrived !!
jay
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Finally time to build the pair of open baffle H-Frame sub modules.
Jay sent the kit with the dowels and bolts to go from a 2x12 to a 3x12 for the new speaker design.
Here is one module laid out with what I use to glue-up and clamp them.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224032)
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The bottom is glued to the baffle and the glue on the top side ready for the piece with dowels:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224033)
Second side glued and now clamped:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224034)
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After 30 minutes glued the left and right sides and clamped them to let the glue dry:
Let it dry for 2 hours and remove the clamps and set aside to build module #2.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224035)
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Module #2 is glued, clamped and drying.
Will be waiting until Sunday for them to be dry and ready to take to the finish company.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224040)
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The servo sub open baffle H-Frames are dried and ready for painting.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224063)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224064)
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Coming along nicely! :thumb:
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The two OB H-Frame 1x12 modules are painted and drivers installed. Some pictures of the simple steps to install the driver with the pre-drilled holes for the 8 mounting screws.
Next step will be wiring the Speakon connector to the driver.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224751)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224752)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224753)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224754)
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Man that looks gorgeous! How did you get such a smooth surface?? :o
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Jay did a very smooth CNC surface on the flatpacks and the automotive paint folks do the full sand and finish in their giant clean room. They always do a great paint job.
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Jay did a very smooth CNC surface on the flatpacks and the automotive paint folks do the full sand and finish in their giant clean room. They always do a great paint job.
I am not being too noisy, about how much did it cost to get the frames professionally painted? Yours came out fantastic.
Thx,
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Mine were about $600/pair. Different colors are different prices. I chose a color that they use a lot and have in stock.
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Mine were about $600/pair. Different colors are different prices. I chose a color that they use a lot and have in stock.
Those look stellar.
For those that are old enough, Earl Scheib missed a business opportunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjdHaMeiiQ
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Thanks! They do great finishes.
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Hey folks
Been some time since an update in this thread, Along with NX Series of cabinets, we've continued to ship these out out as material has become available.... it's sketch at times when trying to predict estimates on delivery .
Duals, Triples, Quads and now these new solid sided 6 stacks are all available. The 6 stacks and the quads ship in 3 custom made boxes each due to weight/size limiations.
Here's a peak at the 6 stacks, used a larger 1.5" base and ad roundovers to the rear of all woofer holes and all exterior edges of the cabinets.. These beasts stand 86" tall with no spikes.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232852)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232853)
As always, feel free to reach out at captainhemo at shaw.ca
jay
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That's just not enough Jay. Can you make an 8 stack? Maybe hang a couple out to the sides like arms with guy wires from the top.
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That would be over 300 pounds fully loaded! I’m sure the bass is awesome but who’s gonna move it?
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That's just not enough Jay. Can you make an 8 stack? Maybe hang a couple out to the sides like arms with guy wires from the top.
Don't forget a step-ladder!
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We need an Iwojima style picture raising one of those subs! :lol:
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Hey folks
We've had a number of people over the past few months ask if these kits are still available..... the answer is yes but, these are not the kits on the GR Research website any longer. To get these beefed up kits, you need to contact us directly.
If you are curious about kit quality, just read back through this thread, there are numerous comments/feedback about many of the kits/cabinets we've supplied over the past 6 years.
Additionally, we'll soon be cutting more of the modular design which can be seen earlier in this thread.
All of the solid sided versiions (duals, triples, quads, 6 stacks) are all available but the quads and 6 stacks are not stocked. They'll be cut as needed
captainhemo at shaw.ca
jay
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Hey all!
I wanted to share photos of the 6-stack subs that Jay made the flat packs for. They are awesome! More photos in my gallery, but here are some good shots.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237364)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233984)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237733)
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We sent a set of those 6 stacks to Tailand as well !! Obviously, we have to custom cut those when ordered, too big to stock these and not a large quantity of them going out.
Duals and triples are in stock, pricing is current on page 1 of this thread as is a link to an assembly video of the cabinets.
jay
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I'm 6'4. The guys that ordered these must be really short.HaHa Seriously those look really cool and I want them. What size room are they going in?
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I can't recall how large Noah's room is, he may chime in... the guy in Thailand has a room approx 30x20' I believe.
We also do quads, triples, adn the duals and earlier in this thread, we also have a modular line of these .
jay
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I can't recall how large Noah's room is, he may chime in... the guy in Thailand has a room approx 30x20' I believe.
We also do quads, triples, adn the duals and earlier in this thread, we also have a modular line of these .
jay
How many can you get in an 18x13 room. I think I read somewhere but don't remember at what point do you need more than 1 amp per channel for the subs?
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How many can you get in an 18x13 room. I think I read somewhere but don't remember at what point do you need more than 1 amp per channel for the subs?
They need either two A370 or one HX800 (per tower)
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Have my two modular 6x12 H-Frames in a 16' x 25' room and do well. Running four HX300-12OB servo amps for the setup. :thumb:
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Have my two modular 6x12 H-Frames in a 16' x 25' room and do well. Running four HX300-12OB servo amps for the setup. :thumb:
How does that work. Is it two triples stacked on each other? Can you also tell me how it goes back to the preamp?
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How does that work. Is it two triples stacked on each other? Can you also tell me how it goes back to the preamp?
I should have read a little further up because most of my questions are answered.
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How many can you get in an 18x13 room. I think I read somewhere but don't remember at what point do you need more than 1 amp per channel for the subs?
I've run two triple towers in a room that size although I'm currently running duals. Both work bery well..
You can u up to 3 of the SW 12 16FR's on a single amp so for quads or 6 stacks, you need to use either an HX 800 or 2 of the A370 amps per tower...... if you use the SW12 08FR's, you can only use 2 per amp. I always recommend folks go with the 16's even if doing duals, it leaves an upgrade path.
And again, note, these cabs are no longer featured on the GR Research site, if you want our beefed up version or our modular version ( all shown in this thread), you need to deal with us directly. Have had a number of folks confused by this thinking they were getting these cabs when ordering off the site
jay
captainhemo at shaw.ca
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I went up to visit Jay (@Captainhemo) and Don (@Endo2112) up in Kelowna a couple weekends ago to pick up a new pair of woofer towers. We enjoyed a nice BBQ steak dinner and listening to some tunes on the Super-Sevens. Thanks for the hospitality!
Don had built a set of quad towers a while back and offered them to me for a good price. So I found a new home for my triples and had Don paint the quads to match my Line Forces.
I wired them up with Neotech solid core UP-OCC in PTFE. This turned out to be a bit of a pain because the towers were set up with the drivers facing both front and back. Trying to fish the 12ga wire through the tight turns necessary to go between the front and back was quite challenging. In hind-sight, I probably would have have used stranded wire.
I had two sheets of No-Rez left over from earlier projects, so ordered the other six sheets necessary to finish these. I had hoped to have everything done this past weekend, but my brand new Dewalt table saw stopped working after about 30 cuts. I have a replacement on the way, but it won't be here for another couple weeks. In the meantime, I'm listening to them without the No-Rez.
Each quad tower is driven by a Rythmik HX800 amplifier, which has two 400W amps, each of which is connected to a pair of servo woofers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255019)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255018)
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Jaytor...... :o ..... W O W
Absolutely state-of-the-art.
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WOW! 8)
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Jaytor -- any sonic differences between the triples and quads that you've noticed so far?
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Jaytor -- any sonic differences between the triples and quads that you've noticed so far?
I haven't had a chance to get them dialed in yet. I am going to wait until I get the NoRez installed before I pull out my calibrated mike and Room EQ Wizard to get them properly set up. But even with no adjustments other than the most basic, they are sounding very nice.
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Very sweet and envy provoking even though there is no way to fit that setup in my room I can always dream of remodeling say adding dormers or just making a second floor over the garage. Then I'd have room for them :green: :thumb:
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I went up to visit Jay (@Captainhemo) and Don (@Endo2112) …..
Looks great. For the No Res are you planning to miter or straight cut?
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Looks great. For the No Res are you planning to miter or straight cut?
I'm planning to use a 45 degree miter on each of the four sides of each piece.
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I'm planning to use a 45 degree miter on each of the four sides of each piece.
Nice. Which blade will you be using with your table saw?
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Nice. Which blade will you be using with your table saw?
I used the stock blade that came on the Dewalt Jobsite saw - 24 tooth, 8 1/4" . The cuts I was able to do look great - very clean and smooth. NoRez is not hard to saw through.
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.
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Good to know. I’m going to cutting No Res, for dual Double Trouble’s, NX-Otica’s and NX Studio’s soon. debating on table saw or band saw.. currently own neither. Leaning towards a table saw.
Table saw is easier for straight cuts like you'll need for the subs and NX-Studios, as well as most of the pieces for the NX-Oticas.
Assuming you are going to apply NoRez to the upper wing, you'll need to cut the curve which is a lot easier on a band saw. But...you can do all the other cuts on a table saw and just trim the curve with a box cutter or possibly a small saber saw. I used a box cutter when i built my NX-Oticas.
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Table saw is easier for straight cuts like you'll need for the subs and NX-Studios, as well as most of the pieces for the NX-Oticas.
Assuming you are going to apply NoRez to the upper wing, you'll need to cut the curve which is a lot easier on a band saw. But...you can do all the other cuts on a table saw and just trim the curve with a box cutter or possibly a small saber saw. I used a box cutter when i built my NX-Oticas.
I have found that a hacksaw blade works very well for cutting straight cuts and curves as well if you dont have power equipment.
Wayne in Oregon
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Table saw is easier for straight cuts like you'll need for the subs and NX-Studios, as well as most of the pieces for the NX-Oticas.
Assuming you are going to apply NoRez to the upper wing, you'll need to cut the curve which is a lot easier on a band saw. But...you can do all the other cuts on a table saw and just trim the curve with a box cutter or possibly a small saber saw. I used a box cutter when i built my NX-Oticas.
Top ramp to NX-Studios is super easy to cut for. With a razor blade or x-acto knife just slice through the rubber part at the transition point but do not cut through the foam and it will give you a super clean seamless bend when viewed from up above. The foam will easily squish right at the transition.
Also Jay, that quad stack looks quite impressive. Not messing around there for full scale aural reenactment. And it still sounds better than the Roseland (but that's not saying much).
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My replacement table saw arrived this weekend and I spent a couple hours cutting all the No-Rez. 32 pieces with 45 degree miter cuts on all four sides. Now to get all these pieces installed.
EDIT: Actually 64 pieces, not 32.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255468)
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My replacement table saw arrived this weekend and I spent a couple hours cutting all the No-Rez. 32 pieces with 45 degree miter cuts on all four sides. Now to get all these pieces installed.
EDIT: Actually 64 pieces, not 32.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255468)
Looks great.. what are the dimensions of a cut piece? I don’t have access to measure mine at the moment but wanted to get started.
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Each piece is slightly under 13” x 5.5”.
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Each piece is slightly under 13” x 5.5”.
:thumb: Awesome thanks!
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Prices are $650 / pair duals, $850 / pair triples, boxes and shipping materials were much more costly than expected. These things are going to be heavy (approx 75lbs x 2 for duals, 95 lbs x 2 triples.)
As seen later in this thread, there are options for inlaid grill frames for duals @ $60 /pr, triples @ $75/pr.
Also shown later in thread are some amp boxes that will fit the A370PEQ and HX800 amps. These boxes are 45'd in the corners and each corner has a #20 biscuit. Assembly is simple. $60 /pr with a flat pack or $70 /pr alone (helps cover a box and packing).
All pricing is in $US.
The duals measure 16" w x 14" d x 30" h.
The triples measure 16' w x 14" d x 44" h.
Bases/ tops are 19" x 17", a smaller overhanging top is also available.
The overhanging tops are much simpler for people to prep (glue them up, give a light sanding, prime, and paint,), no seams to deal with.
The cabinets use both dadoes and dowels to make asembly very easy. Both the baffle and braces will fit into dados..
Each side panel will have a pair of dowels in each end that will mate witht he top plate and base also aiding alignment.
Here is an assembly video that Peter Rawlings did for us :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBmmJzS_iU&feature=youtu.be
Contact us if you are wanting something specific
Cabinets:
1.5" MDF side panels, tops, bases
1" MDF baffles & brases
Combination of dados / dowels for side panel/baffle/base/top alignment. easy toassemble :beer:
Driver mounting screw holes pre drilled
Round-over on rear side of driver cutouts
CNC cut
jay
What is the lead time for ordering a pair of 4 X 12 OB H Frame Flat Packs? And what is the availability for 3 X 12 OB Flat Packs?
Daniel3Dad
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Just an FYI the 4x12 subs will need 2 amplifiers per tower as the HX800 amplifiers are in short supply.
The 3x12" tower will only need one amp per tower.
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If you want to do a 4-stack, I'd recommend you use the modular cabinets and ask Jay to do a top plate that is the same size as the cabinets (no extra overlap). These have a nice reveal between each separate woofer box and will also have one between the top box and top plate. I think this will look a lot cleaner and more modern than the larger top plate overlap.
Mine are currently built with the larger top plate and I've asked Jay to make new top plates for me that are the same size as the cabinets.
The modular design is a lot easier to move if you need to relocate your woofer towers. The four stacks weigh 200lbs+.
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Agree with Jaytor,
The modular OB H-Frames are much easier to move around and position at about 40lb/module.
Jay is making me two 6x12 OB H-Frame modular flat pack kits with same size top cap to replace the ones that had water damage in my room. This time build then paint them.
I have new painted drywall and a floor again! :D
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Agree with Jaytor,
The modular OB H-Frames are much easier to move around and position at about 40lb/module.
Jay is making me two 6x12 OB H-Frame modular flat pack kits with same size top cap to replace the ones that had water damage in my room. This time build then paint them.
I have new painted drywall and a floor again! :D
Thanks for the recommendations. I have to introduce myself in order to see how I can contact Captainhemo to order what you recommend. I am an engineer with too much time on his hands and a large basement theater that I want to eventually install some GR Research Open Baffle speakers. My plan is to assemble the sub woofers first as I already have some speakers which sound good but are a bit long in the tooth. So my question is how does one contact Captainhemo ?
A humble Hole Snipe* Daniel3dad (*a retired Navy Steam Propulsion Engineer)
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you can reach him at this email address:
Captainhemo@shaw.ca
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Jay and Don made a new set of top plates for my quad modular subs. I installed them today and I think they look much better than the overlapping top plates. They have a reveal at the junction which matches the reveals between the modules, so it works quite well. The larger top plate which extends past the front and sides looked a little clunky, particularly next to my Line Force speakers. Thanks Jay and Don.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257559)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257560)
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Very nice setup and room, sir!
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That looks great and I love the grill fabric. It ties the modules together and makes them look like one unit.
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This is an amazing thread and I'm learning so much from it!
I'm sorry if this has already been asked before but I'd like to try and achieve a piano black gloss finish on the OB H-Frame I've just ordered. All the videos I've seen of sanding and polishing use circular pads and I don't think these would be able to access internal corners where three surfaces meet (like trying to polish a floor-wall-wall corner in a room).
I'm thinking I therefore have to paint and polish the panels before assembling them together? Are there any other options you'd recommend?