[minatophase3]

I have a pair of Spatial M4 Sapphire speakers and love them.  I am thinking about adding a sub or dual subs to my system.  I am running an Accuphase e-380 that does not have sub out so am thinking adding a REL with high level connection.  For my medium sized room I think a S/510 or dual S/510's would be good (the REL site suggested that when I chose Magnepan 3.7 speakers as they didn't list Spatials), but have heard some great things about the Carbon Special.  I would only be able to afford 1 Carbon Special if I go that route. 

Can anyone with open baffle speakers chime in if they are using subs?  My biggest concern is that the sub won't be able to keep up with the speed of the Spatials.  Also, not sure how to connect a sub without high level connection to my e-380.

Would love to hear what others are using for subs with their Spatials.

Thanks,
Tim

[Early B.]

Someone asked a similar question recently. This thread should help: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=186955.0

[musicdre]

Tim:  dont RELs have a connection mode off the terminals of the main speakers?  thinking that the REL i had did that.

[minatophase3]

Someone asked a similar question recently. This thread should help: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=186955.0

Thank you!

[minatophase3]

Tim:  dont RELs have a connection mode off the terminals of the main speakers?  thinking that the REL i had did that.

Yes the REL's do have that as a connection option.

[Bonk]

It looks like the E-380 has a pre out in the event you want to try low-level rca connection . And if your sub of choice doesn't allow for speaker wire connection .

[minatophase3]

It looks like the E-380 has a pre out in the event you want to try low-level rca connection . And if your sub of choice doesn't allow for speaker wire connection .

So just take 1 RCA and connect it to one of the pre-out?  If adding 2 subs add 1 RCA to each sub? 

[Bonk]

Indeed . And then of course you would use the gain control on the sub(s) to level match with your mains .

[Tangram]

My two cents:

I have M3 Sapphires in a 13X16’ dedicated listening room that is closed off from the rest of the house. I tried my SVS SB-2000 Pros with the Spatials a couple of months after I got the speakers dialed in. I’ve integrated the subs with small Magnepan LRS’s successfully in the room but with the Spatials I couldn’t get them to work. The amazing detail of the Spatials’ bass was muddied and a definite downgrade. I found that to get the subs to not degrade the sound, I had the crossover and sub volume set so low that they weren’t doing anything.

At least in my room, the M3s absolutely do not need subs. I was listening to a very nice German pressing of the B-52’s Cosmic Thing (Nile Rodgers and Don Was were the producers) last night and was blown away by how good the bass was. With the right amp (I use a Pass Labs XA-25) and less-compressed vinyl sources, the Spatials rock, big time. No subs required!

[AllanS]

My two cents:

I have M3 Sapphires in a 13X16’ dedicated listening room that is closed off from the rest of the house. I tried my SVS SB-2000 Pros with the Spatials a couple of months after I got the speakers dialed in. I’ve integrated the subs with small Magnepan LRS’s successfully in the room but with the Spatials I couldn’t get them to work. The amazing detail of the Spatials’ bass was muddied and a definite downgrade. I found that to get the subs to not degrade the sound, I had the crossover and sub volume set so low that they weren’t doing anything.

At least in my room, the M3s absolutely do not need subs. I was listening to a very nice German pressing of the B-52’s Cosmic Thing (Nile Rodgers and Don Was were the producers) last night and was blown away by how good the bass was. With the right amp (I use a Pass Labs XA-25) and less-compressed vinyl sources, the Spatials rock, big time. No subs required!

My room is about the same size.  The M4 have more than enough bass - too much - but I need a sub to fill in a 70 hz room mode that leaves a pretty big hole.

[Tangram]

I wonder if playing around with your listening position might help that room mode?

[RonN5]

My experience with the M3 Sapphires in a 12,000 cubic foot room.....the bass was really good but lacked that last little bit of oomph.  So, I ran them full range which preserved their control of the tone all the way down into the 50hz region....and I added a sub which I started crossing at 40, then 45, then 50 and finally ended up crossing at 55hz to get the best blend of tone and punch....so my thought is to run your Sapphires full range then play with the crossover and the sub positioning....great sound is possible with the Sapphires and a sub...and unless your room modes are really terrible and you need two subs to combat them, you might very well get away with one sub as I did.

[Tangram]

My experience with the M3 Sapphires in a 12,000 cubic foot room.....the bass was really good but lacked that last little bit of oomph.  So, I ran them full range which preserved their control of the tone all the way down into the 50hz region....and I added a sub which I started crossing at 40, then 45, then 50 and finally ended up crossing at 55hz to get the best blend of tone and punch....so my thought is to run your Sapphires full range then play with the crossover and the sub positioning....great sound is possible with the Sapphires and a sub...and unless your room modes are really terrible and you need two subs to combat them, you might very well get away with one sub as I did.

Well I guess! A 12,000 cubic foot room is 40X40X8’. Even if you have 10’ ceilings, you have a very large room.

[minatophase3]

Thanks everyone.  I am very pleased with the M4's and have used them for about 2 years without a sub.  Before buying a new sub think I will try moving one of my SVS SB-3000's over from my 5.2 system to see how it does. 

Having read some of the posts I see REL or Rythmik are good options.  I used to have 2 Rythmik F12SE subs but sold them to fund my M4 purchase  .  I did feel the F12SE's were better with my stereo system than the SVS SB-3000's but I like the SVS subs better for movies.  I think a sub properly integrated will just add that little something that is missing.

[AllanS]

I wonder if playing around with your listening position might help that room mode?

I only measured 2 listening positions but also 6 speaker positions.  The mode changed but was still there in all. 

[jamieattfield]

I'm using a pair of SVS SB3000's with my M3 Sapphire's. Subs do reintroduce the issue that open baffle speakers solve over regular speakers - boxiness. That said, with a little tweaking, crossing the subs over at 55Hz, at -30db, with a 12db roll-off, they add a little weight that I find pleasant. For me they don't work well with one sub no matter where it's placed, but my room is far from ideal, with one side open to my kitchen. 1 sub just isn't ideal for stereo music and introduces more nodes and issues than it solves in my experience. But two, placed in opposite corners of the room, sounds decent. Opposite meaning, one sub placed against the wall behind my left main, and one in the opposite corner of the room behind me facing forward. I had them either side of my mains for a little while and it sounded a lot muddier than in opposing corners. I occasionally listen to the speakers without subs, and I miss the additional weight the subs provide. Since you have two of them in your other system, I'd recommend just trying them out as I described. Good luck!