AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Digital Amplifier Company Owners => Topic started by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jan 2019, 11:27 pm

Title: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jan 2019, 11:27 pm
The NAD M27 is 7 channels.  The Cherry Amps are 2 channels (also offered in higher powered Monoblocks, same specs otherwise).  Cherry MEGA specs based on 1800W transformer and double cap upgrades.  The Parasound A51 amp is 5 channels.

Just the specs first....  We can compare other factors later, such as subjective sound quality and price.

Power Output, continuous power per channel into 4Ω, all channels driven
    Parasound: 400W
    NAD: 180W
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: 400W
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 675W
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 800W

THD+N, 10W into 8Ω
    Parasound: unknown (rated < 0.2 % at full power)
    NAD: 0.005%
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: 0.02%
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 0.005%
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 0.001%

SNR, A-weighted
    Parasound: 112dB
    NAD: 118dB
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: 120dB
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 116dB
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 120dB

Damping Factor
    Parasound: >1100 at 20Hz only
    NAD: >750 at 50Hz-1kHz
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: >400 at 0Hz-1kHz, >300 at 10kHz
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: >180 at 20Hz-1KHz
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: >400 at 0Hz-1kHz, >300 at 10kHz

Frequency Response
    Parasound: 5Hz to 100kHz (AC coupled)
    NAD: 3Hz to 100kHz (AC coupled)
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: 0Hz to 100kHz (DC coupled)
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 1Hz to 60kHz (AC coupled)
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 0Hz to 150kHz (DC coupled)

Input Impedance
    Parasound: 94k
    NAD: 47k
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: 40k
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 20k
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 20k

Input Sensitivity
    Parasound: 1.4V
    NAD: 1.3V
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: 3.2V
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 2.4V
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 3.2V

Weight
    Parasound: 80 lbs
    NAD: 31 lbs
    Cherry Maraschino Stereo: <3 lbs
    Cherry Classic ULTRA Stereo: 42 lbs
    Cherry MEGA Stereo: 42 lbs
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 03:24 pm
Before we get into prices and sound quality....

Looking for suggestions on 2-ch amp comparisons.  Is there a model you'd like me to compare against Cherry Amplifiers?

Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51
Post by: Eugene on 14 Jan 2019, 03:29 pm
Nuprime Evolution One and your Megaschino. I'm very curious.
Thanks Tommy.
 
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 04:06 pm
Nuprime Evolution One and your Megaschino. I'm very curious.
Thanks Tommy.
OK, comparing Cherry MEGA MONO to Nuprime Evolution One.  Both are monoblocks....

Power Output, continuous into 4Ω load
    Nuprime: 330W
    Cherry: 900W

THD+N, 10W into 8Ω
    Nuprime: 0.01%
    Cherry: 0.001%

SNR, A-weighted
    Nuprime: 106dB (rated 91dB at 10W)
    Cherry: 120dB

Damping Factor
    Nuprime: not stated
    Cherry: >400 at 0Hz-1kHz, >300 at 10kHz

Frequency Response
    Nuprime: 0Hz to 50kHz (DC coupled)
    Cherry: 0Hz to 150kHz (DC coupled)

Input Impedance
    Nuprime: 1M
    Cherry: 20k

Input Sensitivity
    Nuprime: 1.5V
    Cherry: 3.2V

Weight
    Nuprime: 15 lbs
    Cherry: 42 lbs

Idle Power Consumption
    Nuprime: 17.4W
    Cherry: 20W

Sleep Mode Power Consumption:
    Nuprime: 1.6W
    Cherry: 8W

AC Fuse
    Nuprime: Slow blow, 5A, 250VAC
    Cherry: none (15A circuit breaker)
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51
Post by: Samoyed on 14 Jan 2019, 04:13 pm
I’m in Seattle. Where could I hear your amps. I’m about to buy the Nuprime Evo.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Eugene on 14 Jan 2019, 04:16 pm
Thanks Tommy. Tech details of Megaschino are looking very fine. Next on my list is the sq. But in The Netherlands that will be a dealbreaker. Evo one will not be the problem but the Megaschino will be a challenge.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 04:20 pm
I’m in Seattle. Where could I hear your amps. I’m about to buy the Nuprime Evo.
We offer a 30-day in-home trial period.  You can compare a Cherry Amp to the Nuprime in your system!  Maybe there are Audio Circle members with Cherry Amps in your area.  What Cherry model(s) are you interested in?  We have some demos available....  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Samoyed on 14 Jan 2019, 04:21 pm
I have no Idea!  My speakers are KEF 900s. What do you suggest comparable to the Evo?
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 04:33 pm
Thanks Tommy. Tech details of Megaschino are looking very fine. Next on my list is the sq. But in The Netherlands that will be a dealbreaker. Evo one will not be the problem but the Megaschino will be a challenge.
How about a Stereo Maraschino (STM) or Maraschino Monoblocks (ILM, DTM, or GCM)?  Plenty of power, performance, and Sound Quality!

There's a KING STM on Amazon Prime, by the way:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JGQWLBC/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_WplpCbRFH7Y4M

I'm not sure about Amazon (the USA faction) shipping to the Netherlands, but we sell direct worldwide, and we have a KING STM demo in stock from a recent upgrade.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189081)
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Eugene on 14 Jan 2019, 04:36 pm
Hi Tommy,
ehh...look at my avatar... those are my speaker: Apogee Full Range. They need a lot of current.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 04:43 pm
I have no Idea!  My speakers are KEF 900s. What do you suggest comparable to the Evo?
Any KING Maraschino since they use our 1kW 60V power supply.  Rated power for 60V Maraschinos is conservatively 400Wpc into 4Ω.

Very nice speakers, by the way!  Can you post a photo of your system here?
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Samoyed on 14 Jan 2019, 04:58 pm
Where is your web page?
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 05:52 pm
Where is your web page?
CherryAmp.com

We also have more than 20,000 likes on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/DigitalAmpCo/

We run the Truth in AUDIO Facebook group (almost 5000 members):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1423862904335991/

If interested in demos or looking for information on Cherry Amps, please email Support@DigitalAmp.com.

Sign up for our newsletter here:
https://bit.ly/2FdSR7K

We don't send newsletters out very often.  We use them to announce special "newsletter members only" deals and Kickstarter programs.

Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: maty on 14 Jan 2019, 06:14 pm
https://hometheaterreview.com/nad-m27-seven-channel-amplifier-reviewed/

Quote
What is different on this amplifier, compared with previous NAD products, is the implementation of Class D amplifier technology licensed from Hypex of The Netherlands, from its state-of-the-art nCore line. Hypex is one of several companies that develop Class D amplifiers, but its technologies are the only ones found in notable audiophile products like the Rogue Pharaoh, B&W Zeppelin, and $12,000 Theta Prometheus mono block. The distinction here is that NAD does not purchase Hypex amplifier modules, but rather designs a homegrown amplifier that utilizes Hypex nCore technology through a license agreement.

NAD has implemented some of its own design technologies, too--including the input stage and the switching power supply called PowerDrive--but the Hypex self-oscillating output stage, which is a big portion of the nCore advantage, is utilized.

It must be Hypex NC500 with NAD buffer/input stage.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Jan 2019, 10:11 pm
https://hometheaterreview.com/nad-m27-seven-channel-amplifier-reviewed/

It must be Hypex NC500 with NAD buffer/input stage.
So it's the same circuitry as yet another pre-fab module amp.  Guess they're trying to find new and exciting ways to avoid designing their own amplifier circuits.  Doesn't anybody actually design their own amps anymore?  That was rhetorical since we know Cherry does, ....and Mark Levinson on their $50,000 amp, although they're now owned by Samsung, so that level of design might be going away there (:
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: maty on 15 Jan 2019, 07:53 am
It is a logical decision. The Hi-Fi and High End market is getting smaller and the prices do not stop going up!

Only great Asian cities are interesting markets and not Europe/NA, that is the true.

People have become accustomed to badly recorded music and low/very low dynamic range that does not need a good equipment to reproduce it (it is even counterproductive).

They do not enjoy music, they only consume it as if it were fast food.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: charmerci on 15 Jan 2019, 10:26 am
So it's the same circuitry as yet another pre-fab module amp.  Guess they're trying to find new and exciting ways to avoid designing their own amplifier circuits.  Doesn't anybody actually design their own amps anymore?  That was rhetorical since we know Cherry does, ....and Mark Levinson on their $50,000 amp, although they're now owned by Samsung, so that level of design might be going away there (:


You should know that several companies here on AC do so.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: jonbee on 15 Jan 2019, 06:54 pm
I have no Idea!  My speakers are KEF 900s. What do you suggest comparable to the Evo?
I'm in Seattle. I have Maraschinos in 2 systems, King Monos and STM. You're welcome to come by for a listen.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Samoyed on 15 Jan 2019, 07:56 pm
Thanks. I’ve sent a pm.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Jan 2019, 11:01 pm
I'm in Seattle. I have Maraschinos in 2 systems, King Monos and STM. You're welcome to come by for a listen.
That’s very nice of you (:

Thanks!

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Samoyed on 16 Jan 2019, 12:38 am
Tommy, I sent you an email. His offer is nice, and quite near, but his speakers are so much better than mine I suspect I’d not hear what I need to hear.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Samoyed on 16 Jan 2019, 08:04 pm
Tommy, did you receive my email?  I’m very interested.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Jan 2019, 09:09 pm
Tommy, did you receive my email?  I’m very interested.

Yes.  Will reply soon.  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: RonN5 on 25 Mar 2019, 09:16 pm
In theory, amplifiers should have no sound of their own…but in reality, we want them to perform magic…deep bass, big soundstage, sweet highs, etc.  And, probably because designers know this…and because their hearing is their hearing, amps do sound different.


My question is simple, is there any reason at any given price point, so let’s say $1500 or $5000, why a well-designed class d amp should sound better than a well-designed class a/b amp?  Or, is it really about sound preference…meaning in my room, in my system, listening to my music after a couple of weeks of switching between various amps, I conclude that I PREFER amp X…yet someone else may prefer amp Y... and so even if I’m happy with my Halo, PS Audio, Audio Alchemy…I should try a Bryston, Channel Island or Cherry because I might be even happier?
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: jonbee on 25 Mar 2019, 11:37 pm
In theory, amplifiers should have no sound of their own…but in reality, we want them to perform magic…deep bass, big soundstage, sweet highs, etc.  And, probably because designers know this…and because their hearing is their hearing, amps do sound different.


My question is simple, is there any reason at any given price point, so let’s say $1500 or $5000, why a well-designed class d amp should sound better than a well-designed class a/b amp?  Or, is it really about sound preference…meaning in my room, in my system, listening to my music after a couple of weeks of switching between various amps, I conclude that I PREFER amp X…yet someone else may prefer amp Y... and so even if I’m happy with my Halo, PS Audio, Audio Alchemy…I should try a Bryston, Channel Island or Cherry because I might be even happier?
My first thought is that the post implies that amps should "sound" the same. But in fact we don't listen to amps, but to speakers or headphones. Transducers are very non-linear, electrically and acoustically, so the result of an amp "filtered" through a transducer will vary a lot.
My experience is that modern well designed amps do sound similar on a given transducer, but the transducers have the final say about what the listener gets to hear.
The prices of suitably "well designed" amps also vary greatly by architecture, with tubes being the priciest to built to a given standard, and newer Class D designs are redefining the value end of the scale, with A/B somewhere in between. So, budgetary concerns play into it as well.
So to me, my Maraschinos sound "as good as" but not "the same as" the $10,000 tube amps I hear, but depending on the transducers and personal taste others may well (and do) judge it differently.
Does chocolate taste as good as vanilla?
Only listening yourself can answer the question, but if you are happy with your sound, relax and enjoy the music.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: OzarkTom on 25 Mar 2019, 11:46 pm
Most of us here are addicted. We could have the best sounding amp in the world, but we must try another. That is why we are always searching, trading. I am sure the Marachinos are not the best in the world in amps, but n the Class D realm, they are the best I have ever heard after trying so many.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Mar 2019, 01:07 pm
In theory, amplifiers should have no sound of their own…but in reality, we want them to perform magic…deep bass, big soundstage, sweet highs, etc.  And, probably because designers know this…and because their hearing is their hearing, amps do sound different.


My question is simple, is there any reason at any given price point, so let’s say $1500 or $5000, why a well-designed class d amp should sound better than a well-designed class a/b amp?  Or, is it really about sound preference…meaning in my room, in my system, listening to my music after a couple of weeks of switching between various amps, I conclude that I PREFER amp X…yet someone else may prefer amp Y... and so even if I’m happy with my Halo, PS Audio, Audio Alchemy…I should try a Bryston, Channel Island or Cherry because I might be even happier?


Exactly, regarding "amplifiers should have no sound of their own".  Steven Stone called the Cherry MEGA "the embodiment of the longstanding audiophile ideal of a straight wire with gain":
https://hometheaterreview.com/digital-amplifier-company-megaschino-power-amplifier-reviewed/
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: RonN5 on 28 Mar 2019, 01:55 pm
And yet many would say that after auditioning several well thought of…well spec’s amplifiers in their home systems…there are sonic differences…a little more forward…a little more open…etc., so generally speaking, is this more likely to be the “sound of the amplifier” or the way the amplifier itself is reacting to the preamp and speakers and so we hear those interactions? 

I guess the reality is you can’t really know how you will hear/relate to a particular piece of equipment until you live with it at home for a while.  One thing I’ve noticed about the Cherry family of amplifiers…unlike most other “brands”, you almost never see the Cherries on the resale market…meaning their owners must love them.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: sumoking on 28 Mar 2019, 02:53 pm
After having a boutique audio store and being an enthusiast
for over 40 years, I have never heard an amp offer so
much! or better said- so little. Gone are my fav. Class A SS or fine custom
tube SET amps. To boot, the price is extremely reasonable.

Tommy is such a fine person to deal with as well.
Thank you Wind Chaser for your recommendation.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: ajzepp on 28 Mar 2019, 02:53 pm
Most of us here are addicted. We could have the best sounding amp in the world, but we must try another. That is why we are always searching, trading. I am sure the Marachinos are not the best in the world in amps, but n the Class D realm, they are the best I have ever heard after trying so many.

This is so true. I love my Butler amp that I've had for over a decade, but every I love class D tech, and every time I see the specs on these cherry amps I get the urge to spend money. Maggies love power, and they sing even with the 125wpc ICE modules in my Peachtree Nova integrated...I can only imagine how they'd sound with the Cherry products.
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: Wind Chaser on 28 Mar 2019, 04:04 pm
When I consider my system in terms of what I plan to keep and what is slated for an upgrade, everything is on the table except for the Maraschino amps. The purity of these little wonders is astonishing. Unlike all my previous amps including many tube amps, these leave nothing to be desired.

Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: smargo on 3 Apr 2019, 04:02 pm
When I consider my system in terms of what I plan to keep and what is slated for an upgrade, everything is on the table except for the Maraschino amps. The purity of these little wonders is astonishing. Unlike all my previous amps including many tube amps, these leave nothing to be desired.

i kinda have to agree with wind chaser - its challenging to trust your ears - when there is so much noise of naysayers -  purity of sound is strictly an ear thing - its like a muscle that has to be developed
Title: Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to NAD M27 and Parasound A51 ....AND OTHERS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Aug 2019, 01:14 am
Any other amps worth comparing against Cherry?

Here's a comparison against Parasound Halo JC-1 (now discontinued):
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155295.0
Title: The new x-CHerry....
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2019, 03:07 pm
Any suggestions on amps to compare against the new x-CHerry?

The x-CHerry is a 2-5 channel Maraschino monoblock based amp, 400Wpc into 4Ω.

Here’s our web page for x-CHerry:
https://www.cherryamp.com/5-channel-amp

Maybe the Parasound A51 to start??