[RuffTimo]

It's 37' 7" X 22' 7":



Thinking 11.4.6, so each row has surrounds and atmos, with plenty of bass.

Are on-wall/ceiling speakers good enough? Or are in-wall/ceiling better?

Appropriate speaker sizes for this size of room?

Which receivers can power 17 channels?

[WGH]

I have a 7.1.4 home theater that took me years to put together, consider your first large Atmos theater v.1.0.

I saw you are thinking of building 17 speakers, that is quite an undertaking. Home theaters can be done on the cheap but that is not where they end up. Are you trying to duplicate the sound heard in a state-of-the-art theater? The only way I have found to even approximate the illusion is to spend money, and lots of it.

First - the center dialog speaker is the most important speaker in the room, it has to go as loud or louder than the L&R front speakers (100dB) with superb clarity without getting edgy. This is the one speaker you can't cheap out on.

Second - forget about a receiver, you will need separates. Anthem is excellent, when I was looking to replace an old Outlaw processor the only brand with zero negative reviews was Anthem. The sound quality and clarity without harshness is way above my old processor. You may need to step up to the Anthem AVM 90 to get 17 channels. The next step up is a Trinnov.

$300,000 11.4.6 dts-X: PRO Demo w/ TRINNOV Audio Altitude 32 & TRIAD Speakers at CEDIA 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifPzkRNbZIQ

A surround processor needs amps, lots of them. Separate amps have the clarity and more importantly dynamic range needed for home theater. Luckily there are plenty of Class D amps that will work fine.

In-wall or on-wall speakers are personal preference but it also depends on how close the audience is sitting to a speaker, either a surround or ceiling speaker. Triad makes professional bi-pole speakers and traditional front facing speakers, home theater is all they do. Expensive too. Check out the Triad Forum on AVS Forum to get one view how home theater is done.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/triad-owners-thread.921427/

AVS Forum also has a Dedicated Theater Design & Construction Forum if you want to get deep into the weeds
https://www.avsforum.com/forums/dedicated-theater-design-construction.19/

You will need a mix of absorbers and diffusers, this topic could be a whole new thread. I would start at AV Room Service, LTD to see what the big boys are doing
https://avroomservice.com/

Finally make new friends that have home theaters and visit as many as you can. I'm in Tucson, AZ, stop by anytime and I'll find something to demo, Blade Runner 2049, Dune, etc.

[RuffTimo]

Awesome answers and points, exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!!

I'd never heard that the center speaker is the most important piece... very interesting...

Great point about going with separates... the Anthem AVM 90 looks like a beast! I could totally see that as the heart of this theater...

Great point about absorbers and diffusers, hopefully that's one the cheaper aspects of the project, but it sounds necessary.

Thanks again, and I'd love to visit your theater in Tucson if I get down there again... should be beautiful this time of year!

[Rusty Jefferson]

Man, nice room. That's literally bigger than my entire house.

It's also a huge investment. I think I'd start with professional help. The room is the 800 pound Gorilla.  I have a friend who used these folks to help design his room (https://www.sonitususa.com/about-sonitus-usa) from the start. I'd probably use a custom Meyer Sound system (https://meyersound.com/products/#current) if the budget allowed. Have a  good time!

[WGH]

Thanks again, and I'd love to visit your theater in Tucson if I get down there again... should be beautiful this time of year!

We will have a beautiful spring, which starts in 2 weeks with African daisy and wildflower blooms. Southern Arizona is sunny again after 3 days of non-stop rain with well over an inch, perfect timing for wildflowers.

Your home theater is bigger than my house too, my theater is about 1/3 the size, perfect for two people.

The Meyer Sound site is interesting. They have both focused coverage and wide dispersion speakers. The focused coverage are for rooms with bad acoustics. Generally home theater speakers have a wide, even dispersion, the opposite of stereo speakers, that way everyone in the theater hears the same frequency response but I bet it's a challenge to control echo and room overload at 100 dB peaks. My home theater is also my stereo, The Salk HT2-TL speakers work perfectly for my small space, the sofa is in the sweet spot. I also have a Salk HT2C center speaker, the Seas W18 and RAAL drivers are the same drivers as in the HT2-TL speakers. This is important for consistent tonality across the three front speakers. I used other center speakers before getting the Salk and the sound was just weird, tone and timber kept changing and the front soundstage was not coherent.

The Salk HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker, it is sealed, a ported center channel speakers can make male voices sound chesty. Surround processors send all bass from 80Hz - 100Hz to the subwoofer so deep bass is never sent to the center, surround and Atmos speakers, getting full range speakers for those locations is a waste of money. The HT2-TL speakers go down to 34Hz so I run them lower because I can and I have the 225 watts per channel so dynamic peaks are easily handled.

If you want to experiment there is a Salk center channel for sale on the trading post, buy it and use it for a year to get a handle on what excellent sound sounds like. You need a point of reference. When you start shopping for bigger speakers to fill that space you may discover they sound like crap compared to the Salks

Salk HT2C center channel
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=183270.msg1924194#msg1924194

[RuffTimo]

Settling in on HT specs, would love any feedback before finalizing...

After considering GR-Research (not great for large HT) and Wisdom Audio (dreamy line source tech, but too expensive) and a few others for speakers, I'm now leaning toward Triad... seems a decent mid-level line.

Here's the list:

-- Triad loudspeakers (11.4.8, w/ 6 speakers in arrays, so 13 channels total)
-- GSG DIY subs & amps (4 - 21" BTS, all behind the screen)
-- Anthem AVM 70 Pre/Pro
-- ToneWinner Amps
-- JVC NZ7 Projector
-- Seymour DIY XD screen
-- Crowson Tactile Actuators

Room layout:

[WGH]

Have you posted your room design in the Triad Owner's Thread at AVS Forum? I see Dawn is still giving free advise, her company sells and installs Triad but does not actively sell on the forum. I have read that Triad speakers are all equal quality, the different models are based on room size and probably sound level. My movie buddies are now in their 60's and early 70's and their hearing is not what it used to be, I can finally watch films at movie theater volume with no complaints. 

I usually start at the end of a thread and work backwards and then jump around, that way I get the most recent knowledge first.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/triad-owners-thread.921427/

Triad is sold through a dealer/installer network. I have bought on both eBay and AV Science, which is a Triad dealer that will sell individual speakers to the public at a discount .
https://avscience.com/

A 2016 catalog has all the Triad models, specs and prices
>Download the Triad catalog for prices and more info<

[kenreau]

Big project.  I can't tell if you are intending to use an acoustically transparent screen?  At this project level I would highly recommend it. Only way to get realistic center channel audio presentation.  With the JVC Laser projector you should have no problems.

I second the advice below on a high quality center channel speaker. I would add the Left & Right are nearly as important to get the seamless left to center to right panning sounds.  Surrounds must less important, but I would at least buy from the same manufacturer to get consistent timbre.

I used these Speakers [Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Configuration]
o   GoldenEar Trion Ones for Front Left, Center and Right
o   GoldenEar SuperSat 50s for on-wall surround side and back channels
o   GoldenEar Invisa HTR 7000s for in-ceiling Atmos front and back channels
o   SVS SB16-Ultra subwoofer

Room acoustics is a big consideration. 50% of what you hear is sound interactions with the physical room. I consulted with GIK on a design and have been happy with it.

Kenreau

[RuffTimo]

Have you posted your room design in the Triad Owner's Thread at AVS Forum? I see Dawn is still giving free advise, her company sells and installs Triad but does not actively sell on the forum. I have read that Triad speakers are all equal quality, the different models are based on room size and probably sound level. My movie buddies are now in their 60's and early 70's and their hearing is not what it used to be, I can finally watch films at movie theater volume with no complaints. 

I usually start at the end of a thread and work backwards and then jump around, that way I get the most recent knowledge first.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/triad-owners-thread.921427/

Triad is sold through a dealer/installer network. I have bought on both eBay and AV Science, which is a Triad dealer that will sell individual speakers to the public at a discount .
https://avscience.com/

A 2016 catalog has all the Triad models, specs and prices
>Download the Triad catalog for prices and more info<

Great info, I've spent a few hours on AVS now, including the Triad forum... I was not welcomed warmly there, they seem to have it out for the guy I hired for HT design... oh well

[RuffTimo]

Big project.  I can't tell if you are intending to use an acoustically transparent screen?  At this project level I would highly recommend it. Only way to get realistic center channel audio presentation.  With the JVC Laser projector you should have no problems.

I second the advice below on a high quality center channel speaker. I would add the Left & Right are nearly as important to get the seamless left to center to right panning sounds.  Surrounds must less important, but I would at least buy from the same manufacturer to get consistent timbre.

I used these Speakers [Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Configuration]
o   GoldenEar Trion Ones for Front Left, Center and Right
o   GoldenEar SuperSat 50s for on-wall surround side and back channels
o   GoldenEar Invisa HTR 7000s for in-ceiling Atmos front and back channels
o   SVS SB16-Ultra subwoofer

Room acoustics is a big consideration. 50% of what you hear is sound interactions with the physical room. I consulted with GIK on a design and have been happy with it.

Kenreau

Yes, definitely an AT screen, with both the center and subs behind it and the LR's just outside it. And yes, the center and LRs are upgraded compared to the rest of the room.

[WGH]

I was not welcomed warmly there...

Interesting read, I didn't know they were such a twitchy bunch of nerds. I haven't hung out in the Triad forum since I finished my home theater over 3 years ago. A few apologized, always a good sign. Since you are in the design stage, directly consulting with other professionals, instead of in a forum, would be a good idea.

I designed and built high end custom entry doors for 39 years. My clients did a lot of research before hiring me, I even suggested other woodworkers they could talk to. One client told me he researched for a year before commissioning me to make the 12' high entry doors for his ranch. No harm in telling your HT guy you are getting second opinions, if he gets upset then good thing you find out now instead of halfway through the job.

I found out the timbre of my four Atmos speakers are different. Two of the Triad InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds were the old dipole design (I flipped the polarity to make them bipole), two are brand new (bipole from the factory). The old and new drivers are different, the difference in timbre is easily heard during the Anthem ARC test/calibration procedure. The Anthem DSP corrects the timbre close enough that in actual use it is never noticed. Atmos sound in movies is mostly jets and helicopters anyway, and some wind and rain.

I agree with keeping all the speakers timbre similar. Calibration will be much simpler. In for a penny, in for a pound.

[RuffTimo]

Interesting read, I didn't know they were such a twitchy bunch of nerds. I haven't hung out in the Triad forum since I finished my home theater over 3 years ago. A few apologized, always a good sign. Since you are in the design stage, directly consulting with other professionals, instead of in a forum, would be a good idea.

I designed and built high end custom entry doors for 39 years. My clients did a lot of research before hiring me, I even suggested other woodworkers they could talk to. One client told me he researched for a year before commissioning me to make the 12' high entry doors for his ranch. No harm in telling your HT guy you are getting second opinions, if he gets upset then good thing you find out now instead of halfway through the job.

I found out the timbre of my four Atmos speakers are different. Two of the Triad InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds were the old dipole design (I flipped the polarity to make them bipole), two are brand new (bipole from the factory). The old and new drivers are different, the difference in timbre is easily heard during the Anthem ARC test/calibration procedure. The Anthem DSP corrects the timbre close enough that in actual use it is never noticed. Atmos sound in movies is mostly jets and helicopters anyway, and some wind and rain.

I agree with keeping all the speakers timbre similar. Calibration will be much simpler. In for a penny, in for a pound.

haha...! Anyway, my HT guy knows full well I'm gathering all sorts of opinions and he's been incredibly pleasant about my numerous questions and challenges to his design and equipment choices, including subjecting them to public scrutiny by other self-proclaimed 'experts'. His responses have been nothing but patient, competent, and professional, and he seems to have an endless supply of readily available resources to back up each and every decision. He might be right and he might be wrong, but in 30 years of working with technologists he's right up there with the few I've met who *really* know their stuff at a deep level. And he's the guy those two 'twitchy nerds' really have it out for... go figure.

Crazy that your Triad Atmos speakers were different timbres... did you order all four at the same time? Was it just a quality control issue? Good that you were able to solve it, but that sounds bad...

[WGH]

Crazy that your Triad Atmos speakers were different timbres... did you order all four at the same time?

It was a budget thing. I bought two Triad InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds and two Triad OnWall Bronze/4 Surrounds on eBay for cheap. For some reason Triad speakers are always on eBay, some are new, some are used and always a motley assortment of Bronze, Silver and Gold, a good resource to save some money.

I got tired of waiting for another pair of Atmos speakers to appear and bought two new. I don't know the manufacturing dates on the old speakers, the new look exactly the same but there must have been a running upgrade. The slight mismatch is no big deal.


I was wondering if you can get a demo of a theater the HT guy put together? A mix of Gold and Silver speakers would be ideal. When the soundtrack is swirling around the surrounds, rears and Atmos speakers there is no way to tell if the timbre is correct. The visual cortex is in control and the ears are just along for the ride.

The freely available Dolby Atmos Demos might show off a timbre mismatch but they are very unique videos and not typical of a Blu-ray movie. Now if you are into surround sound music then all the speakers would have to be similar. Surround concert videos are interesting but I prefer a hi-res 2-channel recording and a good stereo DAC.