[roscoe65]

I was wondering if I could get some input.  I have recently upgraded the drivers on my original [Fostex] Super 3's to the RS5 drivers and right out of the box they are a huge improvement.  That being said, I am interested in adding the bottom octave with one or two subwoofers.

Context:  Mac Mini/Amarra - Tranquility DAC - Fi 421a clone (Se 4wpc) - Super 3/RS5 on Lovan Jazz stands.  Cable upgrades are in order and I have a good idea of what I am going to do.  The room is 12' x 12' x 8' with not obstructions.  Equipment is wall-mounted and speakers can be whatever distance is needed in the room.

I'm considering the choice of a single Omega 12, single Omega 8 or dual Omega 8's.  The budget is flexible, and the price of two 8's is more or less the same as a single 12.  Of these three possible configurations, what would be the most appropriate for my room and system?  Music is varied and this is not my only system but the most serious one I have by a significant margin (though the others are no slouch either).

I would welcome any suggestions and input/discussion.

Thanks,
Randy

[FireGuy]

Congrats on the RS5 upgrade.  I love my Super 5's with that special driver.  Getting right to my point...I will recommend going with two subs.  I added my 2nd sub (Canton) not long ago and the improvement is rather substantial.  Bass notes seem to hover in space at times and it makes the Omegas better at what they do.

[JLM]

The ideal sub location(s) is/are not typically not the same as the speaker locations.  And since each room is different you'll have to experiment to find the best setup for one, two, or more subs (check out the theory behind the "swarm" concept).  Recommend trying locating in opposite corners and inverting the signal to one of the subs to even out bass response. 

[DBC]

I was wondering if I could get some input.  I have recently upgraded the drivers on my original [Fostex] Super 3's to the RS5 drivers and right out of the box they are a huge improvement.  That being said, I am interested in adding the bottom octave with one or two subwoofers.

Context:  Mac Mini/Amarra - Tranquility DAC - Fi 421a clone (Se 4wpc) - Super 3/RS5 on Lovan Jazz stands.  Cable upgrades are in order and I have a good idea of what I am going to do.  The room is 12' x 12' x 8' with not obstructions.  Equipment is wall-mounted and speakers can be whatever distance is needed in the room.

I'm considering the choice of a single Omega 12, single Omega 8 or dual Omega 8's.  The budget is flexible, and the price of two 8's is more or less the same as a single 12.  Of these three possible configurations, what would be the most appropriate for my room and system?  Music is varied and this is not my only system but the most serious one I have by a significant margin (though the others are no slouch either).

I would welcome any suggestions and input/discussion.

Thanks,
Randy

Hi Randy,

I have twin HSU 15" Subs and twin HSU Mid Bass Modules in a 16" x 24" room with vaulted ceiling and large openings into other rooms (somewhat of an open floor plan). The Mid Bass Module is similar in many respects to the DeepOmega (downfiring, 12" driver and is capable of clean output up into the 150hz range). Based on what I have read and in talking to site member ZLS (owns a pair of DeepOmega 12's) the DeepOmega is more refined and plays deeper than the Mid Bass Module. Both however seem to have similar behavior characteristics.

First off if you are going to have a downward firing sub. decoupling that sub from the floor is a must IMO. I have my Mid Bass Modules sitting on Auralex SubDude II Isolation platforms, this dramatically reduces floor & wall vibrations that produce unwanted room induced problems. At my suggestion ZLS purchased a pair of the Isolation Platforms for his DeepOmega 12's and noted immediate improvements:

ZLS wrote

 Hi Doug,

    I received the Sub Dude's, and I am listening to them in my system.

    I want to thank you for recommending them. 

    They do make everything sound clearer and more focused. 

    I hear improvements not just in the bass, but also up into the midrange. 

Isolating a Downfiring Sub (or any sub actually) from the floor will make it much less placement sensitive in most rooms based on my experience. The acid test for a sub is music. My subs on music actually sound best located out away from the room corners. ZLS if I'm not mistaken is using his DeepOmega 12's as stands for his Super 6 Monitors. Point being, don't get stuck thinking a sub has to go into a corner.

I also find connecting my subs via speaker level connection (speaker wire) produces a much more seamless integration compared to Line Level connections (interconnects). I have my mains playing full range with my Mid Bass Modules playing up to 150hz augmenting the mains with very positive effect. The DeepOmega Subs can play cleanly up to 150hz which based on my experience is more important than how low a sub can play when it comes to music reproduction.

If you go to the Decware Site and find my thread titled "Adding Weight & Body" I think you will find some good insight that will apply to the DeepOmega. I purchased my Mid Bass Modules several year ago before the DeepOmega were avaliable, otherwise I would likely have the DeepOmega in my system.

[Canada Rob]

Hi Roscoe,

A single deepOmega 12 will bring more impact, speed, simplicity, and ease of setup to your system than 2 deepOmega 8s.  Look at the pictures of the drivers on the Omega website and you will see the 8 has a larger surround thus taking up some driver area, the 12 has a tiny surround thus allowing for more driver area.  If the 8 had a full 8" driver area and the 12 had a full 12" driver area, a single 12 has more than double the driver area of two 8s.

[DBC]

Hi Roscoe,

A single deepOmega 12 will bring more impact, speed, simplicity, and ease of setup to your system than 2 deepOmega 8s.  Look at the pictures of the drivers on the Omega website and you will see the 8 has a larger surround thus taking up some driver area, the 12 has a tiny surround thus allowing for more driver area.  If the 8 had a full 8" driver area and the 12 had a full 12" driver area, a single 12 has more than double the driver area of two 8s.

Rob makes a great point here with regard to DeepOmega output capabilities.

I was going to add that in my room (which is substantially larger that what you propose) a single Mid Bass Module with 12" driver is more than enough. I would think a single DeepOmega 12 in your room would sound great. Rob seems to be suggesting a single DeepOmega 12 and I would agree. Locate it somewhere between the left & right Main (dead center is not an absolute requirement). This placement allows you to set the Sub crossover as high as 150hz with no Sub localization.

I realize using speaker level connections, placing the sub out into the room somewhere between the mains and setting the sub crossover as high as 150hz is counter to what you will read almost anywhere else. Just give it a try, this is how my system is set up and the Bass sounds great on music.

[roscoe65]

Hi Roscoe,

A single deepOmega 12 will bring more impact, speed, simplicity, and ease of setup to your system than 2 deepOmega 8s.  Look at the pictures of the drivers on the Omega website and you will see the 8 has a larger surround thus taking up some driver area, the 12 has a tiny surround thus allowing for more driver area.  If the 8 had a full 8" driver area and the 12 had a full 12" driver area, a single 12 has more than double the driver area of two 8s.

Thanks for the input Rob.  Related - how critical is centering the single DeepOmega between the speakers?  It may be difficult in my application.

[RDavidson]

Rob will be able to provide a better answer, but centering the sub shouldn't be critical. It will partially depend on the crossover point. Below about 80hz, bass tones are very difficult for our ears to locate. It will also partially depend on your distance from the speakers and sub. You want to get the time arrival of the bass tones to match your speakers as closely as possible. Again, this shouldn't be critical as long as the sub is within about 6-10 feet of the speaker furthest from the sub (assuming the sub will have to be placed to either side). The closer the better.
Hope Rob or someone else chimes in, if my info is inaccurate or needs more explanation.

[Canada Rob]

As RDavidson says, the arrival time of the notes being the same is what you should strive for.  The deepOmega subs are down firing so their bass will be more defused than a front firing sub making placement easier.  The sub should be somewhere between the speakers but dead centre is not necessary.

[roscoe65]

As RDavidson says, the arrival time of the notes being the same is what you should strive for.  The deepOmega subs are down firing so their bass will be more defused than a front firing sub making placement easier.  The sub should be somewhere between the speakers but dead centre is not necessary.

That is helpful  The speakers are about 8 feet apart, and while I could center a subwoofer between them it would lead to other compromises I'm not excited about.  As it is, I could locate the subwoofer on the same plane between the speakers but off center.  The final location would be about 2/3 - 1/3 bettween the speakers.

WRT the 12" sub vs. 8".  While I can always make a budget when I need to, If I don't have to spend twice as much I would prefer not to.  In my room (1,200 cu ft), would there be a significant difference between the 8 and 12 inch subs?  I understand the basic physics of being able to move air, but is there an inherent difference in character between the two?

[Canada Rob]

The 2/3 - 1/3 positioning will work great.  Comparing the 12 to the 8, either will pressurize your small listening room, but the 12 will have greater speed, dynamics, punch and slam.  The 12 will also have better SPL at the very bottom end.

[DBC]

rosecoe65 wrote:

I'm considering the choice of a single Omega 12, single Omega 8 or dual Omega 8's.

I have a good bit of personal experience using one big sub verses two smaller subs for music. I prefer and currently use twin subs in a 16' x 22' room with large openings into other large areas. Twin subs placed along the same approximate plane as the Mains has always provided the most uniform bass response by a good margin within my room.

My guess is a single DeepOmega 12 would be more than enough for a 12' x 12" room but with a square room you may have some real frequency response problems. Twin DeepOmega 8's may help to provide for a more even low frequency room response while providing similar slam and attack as a single DeepOmega 12 ???

Perhaps Rob could provide some input on how twin DeepOmega 8's might perform compared to a single DeepOmega 12 in your proposed 12' x 12' room. Personally, I think I would lean toward the two smaller subs or one DeepOmega 8 now and another later if you like what you hear and want more.

[MarkR7]

I'm a happy Alnico monitor user here, so much so, that I found a pair of 3i to use in a second system. 

As much as I would love a deepOmega8, its a bit out of my sub-$500 (pardon the pun) budget.

Do you guys have any recommendations for a sub that will work great with the RS5-based 3i? Don't need it for HT duty, just for a musical low end foundation that will synergize with my soon to arrive 3i.

Thanks for any thoughts!
M

[Canada Rob]

The Klipsch RPW10 which is sadly discontinued.  Check on the used market.  When I bought mine the CAD MSRP was $500, I got it for $260.  I've had mine for about 7 years and love it.  It's fast, musical, well made, and the driver in it is efficient so it will still produce at lower volumes, and it has a B.A.S.H. amp.  I have mine hooked up with a new affordable flea powered SET (which I hope to announce in the next few days), Super 3i's, and a Schiit Modi 2 DAC.  The sound is so good, I could live with it as my only system.  The sub does wonders for the imaging, which is already insanely good without it, not to mention the improvement in the lower registers.  Overall, a T-Bone steak on a hamburger budget.

[sunnydaze]

I'm a happy Alnico monitor user here, so much so, that I found a pair of 3i to use in a second system. 

As much as I would love a deepOmega8, its a bit out of my sub-$500 (pardon the pun) budget.

Do you guys have any recommendations for a sub that will work great with the RS5-based 3i? Don't need it for HT duty, just for a musical low end foundation that will synergize with my soon to arrive 3i.

Thanks for any thoughts!
M

Hey Mark......

Underwood Wally is closing out Gallo subs at staggeringly good prices -- $399 for one, $700 for a pair.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/subwoofers-gallo-acoustics-classico-cls-10-new-300-watt-powered-subwoofer-19hz-2016-01-13-home-theater-30067-marietta-ga

These originally sold for $1200 through dealers, and later $750 when Gallo changed to direct sell.

Few weeks ago I bought a pair of the 10 inch subs (he also has 12 inch) and I just love them!  Quite flexible setup and very easy to dial in.  Blend seamlessly and beautifully with my JM Reynaud Twins Mk3.   Music only, no HT.  Also seem easy to integrate into room.  I literally just plopped them down in convenient locations and just left them there.  Haven't played with placement at all, they sound that good.  Very well made -- solid and heavy --  and IMO visually appealing with the front firing woof and and the non-traditional / non-boxy facetted surfaces.

Not owning Omega, I have no idea how they would blend, but I hear them as very fast and tight with no overhang, and a bass presentation that is textured and naturally detailed.  Based on what I'm hearing, I'd be surprised if they didn't work nicely w your Omegas.

Before pulling the trigger I asked Wally about the speed issue and their ability to keep up, and he told me guys are using them with stats and single drivers to great success.  He also said they are so good he is having trouble selling RELs.

I once owned a pair of REL Storms.  Granted, years ago and a different system, but I think the Gallos are better.  Lots better.

Definitely look into them.  At this price, an absolute no-brainer.  Highly recommended.   

~John

[RDavidson]

The Gallo's upper -3 db point is at 103 hz according to Sound and Vision's meaurements, which is pretty good. I would want to know how it performs at 110 hz - 140 hz. With the RS5 drivers, I've found that a higher crossover setting on the sub to work well (around 110-120 hz). A lot depends on room and layout and boundary reinforcement.

[tomsch]

I'm in a similar boat as I'm pulling the trigger on a pair of Super 3is for my new house/office that will be ready to move in first week in March. My office will be a 10x12 room and the Super 3is will be used on a large desk. I currently am running Audioengine 5+s but looking for the magic of a single driver. For a sub I've been debating between the SVS SB-2000 and the deepOmega 8. I'm looking for the most musical combination for the 3is. Of course I would assume that the deepOmega is a great pairing given that they are designed  by the same company but the SVS has great extension and power. It's also less expensive so I'm debating between the two.

[Canada Rob]

Hello tomsch,

Check out this review.

http://headphone.guru/the-omega-subwoofer-living-with-the-omega-2-1-desktop-system/

[tomsch]

Thanks Rob - great review! Our new house will be ready in March so I think I'll order the 3is now and see how they sound nearfield in the room and go from there on the subwoofer. I am leaning towards the Omega though simply because it needs to be a good match and I'm not really going for the HT approach.

[rajacat]

Check out the gr-research open baffle servo subs.