[I.Greyhound Fan]

Good thing I have an adequate supply for my rheumatism issue.

Larry, if you had a large stockpile, could you prescribe it for coronavirus without further medical decrees from above?

Yes Frank, I would be able to prescribe it.  Here in MN we have been told to limit its use or the possibility of hundreds of thousands of people being hospitalized.  I don't know if it is also national but I suspect it is.  They don't want a run on the drug by people wanting to take it as a preventative or by people with mild disease.  The supply would run out.  Don't forget that this is a world  wide problem.

But I agree  with KMMD.  We need to wait a few months for definitive studies.  Right now the results are anecdotal at best.

[Wind Chaser]

Can we please drop this until results from appropriately controlled and unbiased study results come out?  It there are positive results, we will know in 2-3 months as phase 1 completes.  I’m sure that phases 2 and 3 will progress quickly after that, but we are looking at least half to one year before anything is approved.  Kinda useless for the next few weeks and definitely not something that I’d prescribe due to a gut feeling. I’ll happily prescribe it when the studies and science support it.

Thank you. Hopefully your all colleagues are equally rational.

[rollo]

  No one has prescribed anything on a gut feeling. Is there something wrong with a feeling ? Our Medical experts will determine what is warranted. Positive not negative attitudes go a long way.

charles

[avahifi]

I suggest that a reasonable test of Plaquenil could be done much faster.  Start with a couple hundred seriously ill patients, provide Plaquenil treatment for half of them for two weeks and check the results.  If the Plaquenil group does significantly better, it is good to go. Let the lab rats and department heads  twiddle around for another six months if they want to, but in the meantime save lives.

[Emil]

maybe Plaquenil AND cowbell?

Sorry. That's how I handle stress

[Brett Buck]

I suggest that a reasonable test of Plaquenil could be done much faster.  Start with a couple hundred seriously ill patients, provide Plaquenil treatment for half of them for two weeks and check the results.  If the Plaquenil group does significantly better, it is good to go. Let the lab rats and department heads  twiddle around for another six months if they want to, but in the meantime save lives.

   Precisely. This is an emergency, you can give anyone anything, as long as it doesn't make it worse. The people that get better will not care if it is only "anecdotal".

     Brett

[orthobiz]

Meanwhile, doctors in my community are prescribing Plaquenil for themselves. It's embarrassing. I don't prescribe anything for myself or my family. It's a different environment medicolegally even before the virus hit but even more now. Imagine running out of medicine because doctors are stockpiling it for themselves. Pitiful.

Plus, two boxes of N95 masks went missing at our hospital so everything is locked up. I'm going in right now to take care of an open ankle fracture, I hope they have masks, gowns and gloves for me! I don't own any bandanas!!

Stay home and listen to some tunes, on AVA equipment of course.

I agree with Frank that they could probably fast-track a Plaquenil study given how many people are getting sick. So far we have one in Wexford County where I live and I hear there's a drive-up swab station set up in our emergency room parking lot. Guess I'm about to find out.

Paul

[avahifi]

New York has started large scale trials of Plaquenil right now! (got 70,000 doses from the government for starters).  Not waiting for months of research lab tests.

Hopefully we wii see results within a couple if weeks.

If it works it will be a game changer and can put an end to the panic.

By the way, I refer to the drug by it’s trade name, Plaquenil, rather then Hydroxychloroquine because it is a lot easier to spell and pronounce. 🙂

It is the same thing.

Frank

[rollo]

  Whatever it takes. Forward thinking is a good thing. The experts will make the right call. What do we have to lose ? Certainly worth the effort. Stay positive and be well.


charles

[avahifi]

How to do a quick mental calculation of virus death percentage:

Take total cases for a given location, drop the right most two digits.  The number remaining is the number of deaths if the rate there was 1%. Compare this number to actual reported deaths for that location.

For example, right now USA shows 34717 cases and 452 deaths. At 1% rate would be 347 deaths.  Actual rate is 452 divided by 347 which equals death rate of 1.3%, pretty low in comparison to world wide.

Spain on the other hand reports 28768 cases and 1772 deaths. At 1% rate it should be 287 deaths.  Actual rate is 1772 divided by 287 which equals death rate of 6.17%.  Very bad, but not the worst.

You can play this mental exercise for individual state rates too to see who has the best state health services right now.

Frsnk

[I.Greyhound Fan]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Frank, you really need to look at the death rate by age group.  The death rate for 60 and older and people with comorbid health issues is much higher.  The death rate for children is below 1%.  Having a history of high blood pressure raises your risk of dying by 6%.  Diabetes, heart disease, lung disease, kidney disease raises it even further.

[avahifi]

Larry, I know that.  However the overall death rate tells you a lot about a given area’s health service capability.

I do wonder about Germany’s unusually low rate of less then 0.4%.  What is different with what they are doing there?

Frank

[charmerci]

How to do a quick mental calculation of virus death percentage:

Take total cases for a given location, drop the right most two digits.  The number remaining is the number of deaths if the rate there was 1%. Compare this number to actual reported deaths for that location.

For example, right now USA shows 34717 cases and 452 deaths. At 1% rate would be 347 deaths.  Actual rate is 452 divided by 347 which equals death rate of 1.3%, pretty low in comparison to world wide.

Spain on the other hand reports 28768 cases and 1772 deaths. At 1% rate it should be 287 deaths.  Actual rate is 1772 divided by 287 which equals death rate of 6.17%.  Very bad, but not the worst.

You can play this mental exercise for individual state rates too to see who has the best state health services right now.

Frsnk

Sorry - but you're simplifying this situation too much. First, this thing takes weeks to infect people and for the health officials to register the numbers - and even now the stats are not even close to being complete, not by a long shot.

Other conditions - how close people stay in contact. In Italy and other European countries, they physically stay in close contact far more than in the States - plus they didn't have the warning times that we have in the States. We literally live physically more distant away from each other in the States than the rest of the world - except NYC, so you can now see the soaring numbers there.
Also, the overall health of the country and the conditions that they live in. Because of the distance, the US seems to be ahead of the curve - but give it time. Overall, the average American (not AC members) aren't super healthy, give it time, the death rates WILL go up.

Pakistan next year - as one example - will be an absolute mess next year.
Also, if people aren't listening to health officials (but it seems that most are), it wouldn't matter how good the system is, the health system would be overwhelmed and more people would die.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Larry, I know that.  However the overall death rate tells you a lot about a given area’s health service capability.

I do wonder about Germany’s unusually low rate of less then 0.4%.  What is different with what they are doing there?

Frank

Germany is a smaller country and I venture to guess that they are more compliant with a quarantine, unlike here where we have too many all about me people  ((just look at the college kids on spring break in Florida many of whom have contracted the virus)  and people who are positive who are spreading the virus on purpose.  Plus, we have many people who are asymptomatic and don't know they have the virus and are spreading it unintentionally.

My son was at a supermarket yesterday and a woman walked right by him and she was coughing up a storm and did not cover her cough. He immediately held his breath and closed his eyes.  Then he came home, put his clothes in the wash and took a shower.  I would have chewed her out in the middle of the supermarket.  Too many people like this in the U.S..

[I.Greyhound Fan]

And read this-

https://abcnews.go.com/US/white-supremacists-encouraging-members-spread-coronavirus-cops-jews/story?id=69737522&cid=clicksource_81_null_headlines_hed

Those guys should get the virus and .....

[Wind Chaser]

Germany is a smaller country...

And they were not getting mixed messages in the early days such as this is just another virus that will pass in April... nobody was promoting BS hoax/conspiracy theories, etc. The German people do not have any appetite for gut feelings from arrogant fools who think they really smart. 

[smargo]

And they were not getting mixed messages in the early days such as this is just another virus that will pass in April... nobody was promoting BS hoax/conspiracy theories, etc. The German people do not have any appetite for gut feelings from arrogant fools who think they really smart. 

right on!!

[avahifi]

Wind Chaser please keep politics out of this thread.

You too Smargo.

Frank

[galyons]

Wind Chaser please keep politics out of this thread.

You too Smargo.

Frank

Wow! Since when is simple, well documented fact considered "political"? 

[Wind Chaser]

Politics?

Frank, you asked a question... "I do wonder about Germany’s unusually low rate of less then 0.4%.  What is different with what they are doing there?"

I gave you the answer, the undeniable facts. If you have an aversion to facts and truth, then there is no answer to your question.