Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?

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max_the_lab

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Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« on: 26 Jan 2009, 10:47 am »
Hi there,

I am running a pair of MB1s (with the newer midrange domes) with 7B SSTs, and I must say that despite their age, this speaker-amp combination still blows away 90% of the competition.

Unfortunately, I have not had an opportunity to listen to the newer MB2s as the dealer here does not stock them.

The only thread I have found comparing the two was:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18003.0

I am wondering if anyone here has heard the two speakers, and can offer an opinion about the sonic differences between the two.

Thanks.

mvwhiting_83

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #1 on: 26 Jan 2009, 09:13 pm »
Yes, the MB1's w/ a 7B stack compare very favorably against the vast majority of our competition...  Consider yourself a lucky man to have such a kit in your home! :thumb:.... Now, you can make a few comparisons between your MB1's and later incarnations.  There is the MB2+ which featured a (at the time) newly designed soft dome tweeter.  Unlike the metal dome found on the MB1 the soft dome will give you a bit higher resolution, this combined with our handmade soft dome midrange made for much more focused soundstage.  With the new drivers came a new crossover making it all happen.  Overall the MB1, while not a slouch in the least 8), is inferior to the MB2+...  We will never replace a model without marked improvements across the board....  Now the MB2i is latest incarnation of the beast.  The differences are more extensive with this version.  A new Solonex tweeter was co-developed between SEAS and PMC, quite possible our best tweeter ever, with out going into the Active series.....  So with the new tweeter the resolution and "air" has been improved yet again! With the tweeter comes yet another crossover.  All driver units are crossed at -24db/oct, so three drivers are acting as one.  Also improved is the cabinet material - MDF is banned in England becuase of its toxicity.  We now use Medite, made in the same fashion as paper, it is much more dense. This combined with our new cabinet construction method our the MB2i's bass response is improved remarkably.  This is a generational improvement over your MB1's...  Then there are the cosmetic upgrades - glossier cabinets, polished metal badges, sustainably famred real wood veneers that surround the cabinet.

So you will find the differences between 1's, 2's and the new i's, as you go up the generational ladder the performance to be quite staggering. The i-series, across the board, from the DB1i to the MB2i XBD is easily our best looking, highest performing, and also most environmentally sound product to date.

Curiously, where did you purchase your MB1?
« Last Edit: 27 Jan 2009, 12:45 am by mvwhiting_83 »

max_the_lab

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #2 on: 27 Jan 2009, 04:10 pm »
That was very informative, thanks.

My MB1s were purchased preowned here in Singapore, after I made the mistake of sitting down with the seller to listen to them.  :icon_lol:

They have been fantastic speakers to own, revealing improvements to partnering equipment readily, and providing complete musical bliss with all types of music... until the upgrade bug came knocking again.

It sounds like the latest incarnation MB2i has quite a few improvements over the MB1- new tweeter, reworked crossover, new cabinet, new woofer surround... Given the phenomenal speaker the MB1 is, I can only imagine what the 2i must be like. :drool:

Time to start saving, I guess...  :lol:

 

alexone

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #3 on: 27 Jan 2009, 07:50 pm »
Yes, the MB1's w/ a 7B stack compare very favorably against the vast majority of our competition...  Consider yourself a lucky man to have such a kit in your home! :thumb:.... Now, you can make a few comparisons between your MB1's and later incarnations.  There is the MB2+ which featured a (at the time) newly designed soft dome tweeter.  Unlike the metal dome found on the MB1 the soft dome will give you a bit higher resolution, this combined with our handmade soft dome midrange made for much more focused soundstage.  With the new drivers came a new crossover making it all happen.  Overall the MB1, while not a slouch in the least 8), is inferior to the MB2+...  We will never replace a model without marked improvements across the board....  Now the MB2i is latest incarnation of the beast.  The differences are more extensive with this version.  A new Solonex tweeter was co-developed between SEAS and PMC, quite possible our best tweeter ever, with out going into the Active series.....  So with the new tweeter the resolution and "air" has been improved yet again! With the tweeter comes yet another crossover.  All driver units are crossed at -24db/oct, so three drivers are acting as one.  Also improved is the cabinet material - MDF is banned in England becuase of its toxicity.  We now use Medite, made in the same fashion as paper, it is much more dense. This combined with our new cabinet construction method our the MB2i's bass response is improved remarkably.  This is a generational improvement over your MB1's...  Then there are the cosmetic upgrades - glossier cabinets, polished metal badges, sustainably famred real wood veneers that surround the cabinet.

So you will find the differences between 1's, 2's and the new i's, as you go up the generational ladder the performance to be quite staggering. The i-series, across the board, from the DB1i to the MB2i XBD is easily our best looking, highest performing, and also most environmentally sound product to date.

Curiously, where did you purchase your MB1?

hi, mvwhiting_83!

MDF is toxic? since when? and what about all the other speakers who are still made of it? :roll:

al.

mvwhiting_83

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #4 on: 27 Jan 2009, 08:11 pm »


hi, mvwhiting_83!

MDF is toxic? since when? and what about all the other speakers who are still made of it? :roll:

al.

A component in the manufacture of MDF is arsenic...  Which is a toxic substance.  The impact of materials used in manufacturing is more closely followed in the UK and Europe than here in America. The environmental impact of Medite is minimal when compared to that of MDF.  As for all of the other manufacturers using MDF, it is their responsibility to consider the impact their product is introducing. :nono:

Viajero5000

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #5 on: 27 Jan 2009, 10:18 pm »
Hi Ian,

I'm not sure which speaker you're referring to when you say 'MB2+'

I have the MB2, which I believe was the pre i-series model; I'm not aware of a separate MB2+ model; am i missing something?

I haven't heard the MB1, so can't offer comparisons; I have heard the MB2i, which I didn't go for given that I felt that the additional cost of changing from MB2 to MB2i was not reflective of the benefit of the tweeter upgrade.

I would associate the term 'staggering' only with the MB2-XBD Active; the passive MB2 and MB2i are both very nice speakers, but, when set up properly, the MB2-XBD A is a truly thrilling system.  I plan to next upgrade to the MB2-A (sans XBD), credit crunch permitting.     


mvwhiting_83

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #6 on: 28 Jan 2009, 04:17 am »
Staggering would be the difference between the 1 and the 2i.


James Tanner

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #7 on: 28 Jan 2009, 10:54 am »
Staggering would be the difference between the 1 and the 2i.



I remember 'staggering' a lot the last time I heard the MB2i- but then I did have a lot of wine! :lol:

Viajero5000

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #8 on: 28 Jan 2009, 12:25 pm »
Hi Ian/James,

How do you rate the passive MB2i-XBD vs the active MB2 XBD-A?  I found the latter much better, but unfortunately the i series speaker that I heard had been poorly set up (bad room), so it wasn't an entirely fair comparison. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the 'older' active vs 'newer' passive.

James Tanner

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #9 on: 28 Jan 2009, 12:41 pm »
Hi Ian/James,

How do you rate the passive MB2i-XBD vs the active MB2 XBD-A?  I found the latter much better, but unfortunately the i series speaker that I heard had been poorly set up (bad room), so it wasn't an entirely fair comparison. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the 'older' active vs 'newer' passive.

My $.02 Viajero - IMO Active done 'correctly' always outperforms passive done 'correctly' if 'resolution' is what your after.

The problem is that once you get into different types of speaker technology Electrostatic, Dynamic, Planar Dynamic, Horns etc. its tough to compare apples to apples because some may find that a specific speaker techology is inherently better than another for their taste.  So without the ability to listen to similar speaker designs both Passive and Active its a tough call.

james

Viajero5000

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #10 on: 28 Jan 2009, 01:21 pm »
Absolutely agree on different speaker technologies having their own benefits; my question was specifically for the mb2 only, and i agree with your findings that the older active beats the newer passive.

mvwhiting_83

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #11 on: 28 Jan 2009, 08:25 pm »
Our active line will always have the performance edge on our passive.  The compromises made within an active design are kept to an absolute minimum when compared to that of a passive design...  That's at least what Peter Thomas told me, and I'm pretty sure he knows what he is talking about :wink:. So in a word, when asked if the MB2-XBD-A is better all around than the MB2i-XBD, the answer is ABSOLUTELY! 8)

mvwhiting_83

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #12 on: 28 Jan 2009, 08:26 pm »
Oh yea, that said - The MB2i-XBD sounds pretty damn good too. :thumb:

Viajero5000

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #13 on: 30 Jan 2009, 02:37 pm »
thanks for the input Ian.... now if I can only get my hands on a pair of those MB2-A's!

Bassmann

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #14 on: 31 Jan 2009, 07:41 pm »
Does anyone have a pair of the MB2's for sale in the UK? in a nice finish.

I would be willing to swap my Rolex Submariner in steel and OB1's, both in excellent condition for a pair, or is that not enough?

Though I think the Rolex will prove to be a better investment and return long term.
« Last Edit: 31 Jan 2009, 09:11 pm by Bassmann »

Viajero5000

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #15 on: 31 Jan 2009, 09:40 pm »
A bit confused here, do you mean you'll swap OB1 + submariner, or just the submariner? If you mean the former, I might be interested, as I need to upgrade my passive MB2s to active MB2s, and have separately been thinking of buying a submariner... and can use a second pair of PMCs for another room.

Bassmann

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #16 on: 31 Jan 2009, 10:50 pm »
A bit confused here, do you mean you'll swap OB1 + submariner, or just the submariner? If you mean the former, I might be interested, as I need to upgrade my passive MB2s to active MB2s, and have separately been thinking of buying a submariner... and can use a second pair of PMCs for another room.

off topic

Hi Viajero5000

Funny that, as I was just reading an old thread in another forum and noticed you mentioned about having the MB2's. Was about the MF KW550 amp.

Anyway, yes the former (both) OB1's are in oak, owned from new (shadow audio) + all paperwork boxes etc (about 2 years old now),

and

Submariner is the Date just model 16610 with trip-lock winding crown and flip-lock bracelet with black dial and black bezel and of coarse all paperwork + box etc. Bought from a posh jewellers (Lister Horsfall) October 2004 - brand new. its a sexy watch and in the right light it glimmers like nothing else (that can be a good thing and a bad thing) I've found its presence (on MY wrist) can upset people if they notice it!!! he he. Theirs a 2 year minimum waiting list to buy new.


What finish are your MB2's in please?

« Last Edit: 1 Feb 2009, 07:38 pm by Bassmann »

Bassmann

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #17 on: 31 Jan 2009, 11:16 pm »
I have some photos of the watch that I can send via email.

PM me, if your interested.

Can anybody point me to some reviews of this speaker, I've googled all sorts and can't find anytrhing.
« Last Edit: 1 Feb 2009, 08:26 pm by Bassmann »

Viajero5000

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #18 on: 2 Feb 2009, 12:13 pm »
Hi Bassman, sorry for the delay, was away for the w/e. Do you know if there are any differences between the OB1 and OB1+?

W.r.t MB2 reviews, they are few and far between, (but all very positive). Beyond the inherent limitations of box speaker design, I have found little to fault with them; they are in a very different capability league from the PMC domestic floor standers, and the only speaker that has been able to impress me enough to want to change is the MB2-Active.


Bassmann

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Re: Sonic differences between MB2s and MB1s?
« Reply #19 on: 2 Feb 2009, 01:39 pm »
Hi Viajero5000

No wories about the delay, theirs no rush.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think they did an OB1+, was always just OB1 until the i model came out.

The + upgrade was for the other speakers which involved the soft dome tweeter conversion from the previous metal dome unit and the tweeked crossover unit that goes with it.

As far as i'm aware the OB1 started out life already having that tweeter, which is the same as your MB2's i think.