[bhobba]

Hi Guys

Been playing around with the DAC and have noticed the right side is louder than the left.  I don't know why we didn't notice it before - all I can think of is when we were testing it the balance was adjusted to compensate or maybe it only happens on the USB input.

However this seems to a known issue:
http://www.wyred4sound.com/

Anyway I have contacted EJ at WFS and put in a service request to get a new top cover assembly.  I suspect simply adjusting the balance will resolve the issue in the interim so will continue checking it out until the fix arrives.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Hi All

I have had some feedback from EJ that he is getting a bit of flack about some of my posts and they do not reflect what I have said to him.

To set the record straight my concern about the DAC had to do with not being able to get the USB working.  This has now been resolved and is working flawlessly using kernel steaming.  I have since become aware that problems with Windows 7 had to do with an update to windows.  Having worked in the IT industry as a programmer for many years my experience is these types of problems are virtually impossible to avoid.  Knowing this I now believe when I said products should not be released with these types of driver problems it was not a correct assessment of the true situation.  From what I can gather extensive testing was done.

My position on the sonic's is it is close to the best out there at any price.  It has the best detail of any DAC I have ever heard.   It totally outclassed an Havana is every area.  It was close to Mike's reference DAC but in the areas of sibilance control, fluidity, liquidity, musicality and sound-staging that DAC was better.  Not hugely better - it was close - but it was better.  That DAC however is a lot more expensive, heavily tweaked, and in many ways an unfair comparison.  The reason I mention it the original scuttlebutt is it was scary close to the best out there at any price.  However I found it was 'just' close.  I put just in quotes here because I don't want people to get the wrong idea - this is a tremendous accomplishment.  I also want to add I have had a chance to listen using up-sampled 192/24 material and material recorded at at 192/24.  This raised the bar even further and I want to do a direct comparison to Mikes DAC and the Tranquility DAC specifically checking this out.  Although I can't preempt the outcome of that new comparison because audible memory is a poor thing, my feeling is using that it may be scary close or even equal.  Without reservation I recommend this DAC.  The only DAC I am aware of in its price range that may be its equal is the Tranquility and I will be doing a specific comparison to check it out.  This is expected to occur sometime later this month.

With regard to the balance issue please be aware this is of zero concern to me.  I worked in the IT industry for many years and any new product goes through similar teething issues.  That is only to be expected.  Both EJ and the distributor I got it through here in Australia - Deep Hz Audio -  are doing everything in their power to correct this quickly.  Their after sales service is absolutely impeccable and a real credit to both organizations.  Having problems does not concern me as much as how well they are corrected.  This problem so far has been corrected in a flawless and timely manner to my complete satisfaction.

Thanks
Bill

[krikor]

My position on the sonic's is it is close to the best out there at any price.  It has the best detail of any DAC I have ever heard.

Just got a new DAC2 hooked up last night, and while initial perceptions brand-spanking new and cold out of the box are not anything to pin your hopes on, I've got to agree about this DAC having incredible detail and an ability to separate and locate instruments/musicians like nothing I've heard in my system.  Utterly silent background, space and air of the performance environment, speakers utterly disappear - these are the things that first impressed me upon pressing play.  It out performs the Cary 306/200 it replaces in these regards... I'll be curious how the rest of the sound improves/changes as it breaks in (and whether it can match or beat the Cary in certain other areas like bass response/texture and smoothness in the midrange and with vocals).

As an added caveat to these first impressions, I should also note that my entire system was "cold" as well, having been turned off for several days while we were at a music festival... but I know it well enough and the other components have been static for so long I know what the DAC2 is doing.  Can wait to get home tonight for another listen.

[ted_b]

Srajan's 6moons review is completed and published.  He gives the DAC2 a Blue Moon award for best DAC in the $1500 category.  He says it is close to the Weiss DAC2 ($3k) but not quite.  I'm on EJ's list and will compare to my Weiss asap.

[bryan0101]

Srajan was using the ASI Tango R?! Hes got the ultimate wide-bander the Voxativ Ampeggio right there and didn't write about the combo....

I think all the weiss, dcs...are sh1tting their pants.
and frankly I couldn't care one bit.

Out of all the equip, digital transport/dac drop price the steepest, next is speakers. How stupid is that!

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

Just to get things in perspective here I did a direct comparison today to a $10K dac up-sampled to 384k.  The $10k job ate it alive.  I won't tell you what DAC it was because I promised the guy I wouldn't, but that DAC was clearly better.  Was it the difference in price better?  NO - one thousand times no.  But it was clearly better - even slightly better detail.  And it was not Mike's DAC or a DAC based on any readily available DAC chip but the guy told me they did a direct comparison against the Minvera with the same result - it ate the Minerva.

Thanks
Bill

[denjo]

Just to get things in perspective here I did a direct comparison today to a $10K dac up-sampled to 384k.  The $10k job ate it alive. 

Orpheus Heritage Signature DAC?

[bhobba]

Orpheus Heritage Signature DAC?

No.  But they do advertise they make the best DAC in the world (its not the one I heard - but its not far from it) and I have not heard anyone actually dispute it.  But the exact DAC is not that important.  What is important is you need to spend a hell of a lot more to actually beat it by an appreciable amount.  The Wiess doesn't - but its only twice as much.  You need to spend nearly 7 times or more to do it.  Do you want to spend that much? I may one day but not now.

That said I do have high hopes of the Tranquility.

Thanks
Bill

[denjo]

That said I do have high hopes of the Tranquility.

Bill: I look forward to your views of the Tranquility DAC by and by!

[navi]

Bill: I look forward to your views of the Tranquility DAC by and by!

Bill I also hope the Tranq DAC is GREAT (Maybe then you might want to sell me the WFS DAC2

[joeling39]

I have a Minerva & my experience is opposite. I value the mid range & the Weiss does not cut it when compared to the DAC2 & my AN 1.1 modded. DAC2 is comparable in the mid to my AN but better in the lower frequencies. I'm quite impressed except for the volume imbalance in USB mode. Gonna get mine sent to the neighboring country where the nearest dealer is to have it repogrammed.

I Should be getting a AR dac8 to try soon too?

Minverva is fed through Empirical Audio offramp 3 with ultra clocks using AES/EBU using pc or fire wire using Mac mini. AN fed through offramp. DAC2 also using AES/EBU through the offramp due to the volume problem.

Regards,
Joe Ling

Malaysia

Srajan's 6moons review is completed and published.  He gives the DAC2 a Blue Moon award for best DAC in the $1500 category.  He says it is close to the Weiss DAC2 ($3k) but not quite.  I'm on EJ's list and will compare to my Weiss asap.

[ted_b]

My Weiss DAC2 has the most wonderful midrange I've heard to date.  Many reviewers feel the same (Srajan, Jeff Fritzat Ultra, etc).  To my ears it only lacks the control of frequency extremes of the Metric Halo LIO-8/ULN-8 (and of course the extra channels).  I'm looking forward to EJ getting me a demo of the "other" DAC2.  The STP SE is quite an analog stage, so I expect the W4S to be no slouch there.

[Audioclyde]

Ted, have you had a chance to give the WFS DAC 2 an audition?

Bill, have you been able to compare the Tranquility DAC?

Thanks guys!

Randy

[ted_b]

Randy,
Not yet.  EJ has not caught up with paying cutomers yet. 

However, i do have a most musical and detailed DAC in here for eval right now...the Antelope Zodiac Plus 24/192 DAC.  Topic for another thread.

[Eric5676]

andy,
Not yet.  EJ has not caught up with paying cutomers yet. 

However, i do have a most musical and detailed DAC in here for eval right now...the Antelope Zodiac Plus 24/192 DAC.  Topic for another thread.

Igor Levin's new baby? That man's a genius. On paper, that piece looks pretty tantalizing.

Supposedly not due out until either late this year or possibly early next year, right?

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products_integrity.html#

Heh, I wonder that Gold unit is going to be?



This DAC-2 is on my short list.

[bhobba]

Bill, have you been able to compare the Tranquility DAC?

Not yet.  Eric shipped the DAC early Tuesday morning Australian time.  He has not even sent me the tracking number yet so I can follow its progress.  Hopefully it will arrive in time for our DAC shootout Saturaday but I am not hopefull.  It may be a blessing though since it is a usb only DAC and comparing it to non usb dac's is a logistc pain - you can do it but I would rather not.

Have been listening to the DAC2 qiute a bit now (the balance issue has been fixed) and now belive I have gotten to the bottom of its sound signature.  Overall it is a very neutral DAC that leaves lesser DAC's such as the Havana far behind but it does have a slight issue in the upper midrange.  This makes vocals sound like the performer is a bit 'younger' and gives a lively sound that tends to emphasize the great detail retrieval so you can clearly hear all sorts of stuff.  The downside (apart from the fact it is a slight form of coluration) is sibilance is empasised which on a few recordings such as Barry White can be slightly annoying.  On others such as most (but not all) Cliff Richard and Elvis I find it actually sounds better (right now I am listening to some Cliff Richard I can hear it on) - so take your pick if it is a positive or negative.  Overall I personally would rather it's not there.  Again I must emphasize it's slight - other DAC's - except much more expensive ones were worse in many areas.  But its the type of thing that still leads me to say its close to the best out here at any price - but not scary close.  Exellent acivement none the less. 

Oh yea it is in the ESS DAC as I found out when the Audio GD designer described similar issues with the Saber DAC he recently designed.  He however says in his opinon it is equally as neutral as the pcm1704 but I do not agree with that.  I give the pcm1704 a slight edge in the very best implementations I have heard.  Eric Hider also said they built an ESS Dac and had exactly the same issiue - he could never get the upper midrange quite right so chose a different chip.  Of course this has nothing to do with the excellent WFS implentation which is top notch.

Thanks
Bill

[Eric5676]

I guess it goes to show yet again how important implementation is and quality of all hardware parts in the food chain. Some folks just focus on the DAC chip itself.

That being said, I'm mildly surprised to keep seeing feedback on the Wyred's being on the warm side since that's a descriptive I've never seen applied to the Sabre chips before.

Across probably 6 forums that I've lurked through when doing searches on Google for certain products I'd say this is now the 4th time I've seen someone refer to the DAC-2 as warm, which is great news for me potentially because I need a little bit more warmth in my setup.

[ted_b]

Eric, As you yourself said, it's not the DAC chip, it's the full implementation.  The Wyred STP SE preamp, although fully solid state, has been reviewed as a very non-ss sounding preamp (overgeneralization:warmer than neutral) and I can agree.  So I assume the warmth or midrange texture is due to the "house sound" of their analog section in the DAC.  As you said, for many people those attributes are quite welcome in a very analytical ss setup.

[Eric5676]

Eric, As you yourself said, it's not the DAC chip, it's the full implementation.  The Wyred STP SE preamp, although fully solid state, has been reviewed as a very non-ss sounding preamp (overgeneralization:warmer than neutral) and I can agree.  So I assume the warmth or midrange texture is due to the "house sound" of their analog section in the DAC.  As you said, for many people those attributes are quite welcome in a very analytical ss setup.

Sounds very promising for me. I'm also eager to see more about those Zodiac units but that will be another thread.

As far as this DAC goes, some of bhobba's comments are interesting and hopefully he and some others will follow up on some of that. See if break in time helps a few of their quibbles and such.

[bhobba]

As far as this DAC goes, some of bhobba's comments are interesting and hopefully he and some others will follow up on some of that. See if break in time helps a few of their quibbles and such.

I am a little unsure of what more I can say. This, except for the upper midrange issue, is a very neutral and analytical DAC.  It is unusual in that it is both dark and detailed.  It clobbers lesser and cheaper DAC's such as the Havana that I did a direct comparison to.  That was not just my opinion - it was the view of others there as well.  It however does suffer slightly compared to the very best out there at any price - they are more fluid, musical and liquid and don't have the midrange issue.  That's about it really.  I am not the type for flowery talk comparing midrange bloom etc etc. I tend to get right to the point as I see it.  Bottom line is this DAC is worth a listen in this price bracket so you can make up your own mind.  While I generally take into account stuff like the designers philosophy and give it equal weight to listening you should seek out and listen to the products that interest you.  Really that's the most I can do - is it worth seeking out - beyond that its up to you.  If you have a specific question I will try to answer it.

Thanks
Bill