[J Harris]

I just came across a detailed article on room setup that aims to demolish a lot of audiophile preconceptions. I'm curious whether anyone else has read this, or is familiar with this journal, "The Audio Perfectionist".

http://www.audioperfectionist.com/PDF%20files/journal2rl.pdf

The link is a PDF file - you'll need Acrobat to read it. The article you're looking for is "Good acoustics in real listening rooms."

J!

[Val]

Richard Hardesty has been around for quite a while and those are updated old but still pretty solid files. I agree with most of what he says in the article, as you can see in the audio section of my own website in a couple of articles about the subject. I wish I had more time to update it. The room is an important component, people tend to place speakers badly (close to boundaries and obstacles), too far apart, without symmetry around them, they sit too far from the speakers and close to the back wall, etc. He is especially right in that you have to choose between imaging and bass when placing speakers and that good, well-placed subwoofers improve practically any main speakers.

Val

[John Casler]

While it is an add for the Vandersteen Subs, it is one great bit of info and mostly very accurate and in accordance with most of my set up views.

The only thing I slightly disagree on is the "width" of speaker placement, since I have "limited dispersion" drivers, I "can" place speakers 10' to 12' apart and sit 8' away and have a striking fixed and precise center image with a full and deep soundstage.

This is a great read and I suggest everyone read it who is wondering about their set up. (unless you are happy listening to your room and not your speakers )

Thanks J. (I have seen this before but lost track of it)

[Val]

While it is an add for the Vandersteen Subs, ...

I don't know the entire context, but if I remember well he declared in the first issue that he used to be a Vandersteen dealer before publishing his audio magazine; since he says he likes first-order, time-aligned speakers and speaker-level subs and he knows Vandys well, I see it as a preference and not necessarily an interested plug of the brand.

The only thing I slightly disagree on is the "width" of speaker placement, ...

This hobby is fascinating in so many ways. I see your point regarding limited-dispersion speakers, for I have owned and listened to Quads placed just a few inches away from sidewalls and the huge-open-window effect they produce is impressive. But I have also listened to very wide-dispersion speakers, for example the old Gallo Nucleus and References and the MBL omnis, placed closer to one another than normal in a regular room and the sense of unbounded width, of not having any walls, almost of an enveloping soundstaging way outside of the speakers is astounding. The humble B&W N804s that I owned until recently, when placed on my living room long wall give almost wall-to-wall reproduction with most recordings.

I take issue with Hardesty's assertion that damping floor and ceiling bounce is not important. Anything you can do to absorb first reflections is good.

Val

[jackman]

While it is an add for the Vandersteen Subs,

This is a total hoot!  I read the article and did not feel it was an ad for Vandersteen subs at all.  If you are questioning the objectivity of the writer, I suggest you to take a look at your posts which, 99.999% of the time read like ad's for VMPS.  The article made some good points and the Vandersteen references were merely because the reviewer was familiar with the product.  Much more useful to me than the mush I constantly hear from VMPS dealers who seem to populate this forum and AVSforum.

Also, I've never been a big fan of Vandersteen products.  Maybe I never listened to them in a proper set-up, but they always sounded dull and lifeless to me.  Perhaps they are more sensative to room setup than other speakers.  

J

[John Casler]

I suggest you to take a look at your posts which, 99.999% of the time read like ad's for VMPS. The article made some good points and the Vandersteen references were merely because the reviewer was familiar with the product. Much more useful to me than the mush I constantly hear from VMPS dealers who seem to populate this forum and AVSforum.

While I didn't mean it was "literally" an ad for Vandersteen Subs, it certainly promoted their qualities (which by the way I agree with)

"AND" I didn't mean the comment in a "negative way".

And maybe you missed the point that I liked the information and felt it useful.

Your caustic nature toward VMPS is noted, and I for one, don't care.  You have had a bur up you behind since your "VMPS circle jerk" comment years ago on Harmonic Discord.  And you have made continuos snide remarks whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

If you haven't noticed I am a VMPS dealer so I guess most of my comments would be relating to VMPS, (Duh!!) but 99.99%?

Why don't you reference that with an accurate count, rather than your personal (vendetta driven) estimate, which is probably as accurate as your views and reviews.  All my posts are easy to find.  Why don't you do a tally??

Let's see 99.99% of 304 = 303.97....Hmmm

Since the post about the Hardesty article didn't have "any" reference to VMPS (even though it is in the VMPS forum) you are already inaccurate.

Get a life (and take your medication from now on )

[John Casler]

I don't know the entire context, but if I remember well he declared in the first issue that he used to be a Vandersteen dealer before publishing his audio magazine; since he says he likes first-order, time-aligned speakers and speaker-level subs and he knows Vandys well, I see it as a preference and not necessarily an interested plug of the brand.

Bad choice of words on my part.  Didn't mean that negatively and in fact the Vandy Sub is everything he says it is.  It is one of the few subs (correct me if I'm wrong) that uses the slot loaded, front firing system originated by Big B.

I see your point regarding limited-dispersion speakers, for I have owned and listened to Quads placed just a few inches away from sidewalls and the huge-open-window effect they produce is impressive. But I have also listened to very wide-dispersion speakers, for example the old Gallo Nucleus and References and the MBL omnis, placed closer to one another than normal in a regular room and the sense of unbounded width, of not having any walls, almost of an enveloping soundstaging way outside of the speakers is astounding.

Yeah it is hard to make a blanket statement like that with various dispersions allowing for various placements.  Of course the Gallo and MBL are omni dispersants and this accounts for their "air" and openess.

Can't say I dislike that sound quality at times it is very attractive.

I take issue with Hardesty's assertion that damping floor and ceiling bounce is not important. Anything you can do to absorb first reflections is good.

Actually I hadn't thought of that since my normal speakers are "vertically challenged" in dispersion, but in some cases, you are very correct.

I even have played around with acoustically blocking the ceiling bounce with a couple tweaks.

As you say, a fascinating hobby.

[jackman]

While I didn't mean it was "literally" an ad for Vandersteen Subs, it certainly promoted their qualities (which by the way I agree with)

"AND" I didn't mean the comment in a "negative way".

And maybe you missed the point that I liked the information and felt it useful.

Your caustic nature toward VMPS is noted, and I for one, don't care. You have had a bur up you behind since your "VMPS circle jerk" comment years ago on Harmonic Discord. And you have made continuos snide remarks whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

If you haven't noticed I am a VMPS dealer so I guess most of my comments would be relating to VMPS, (Duh!!) but 99.99%?

Why don't you reference that with an accurate count, rather than your personal (vendetta driven) estimate, which is probably as accurate as your views and reviews. All my posts are easy to find. Why don't you do a tally??

Let's see 99.99% of 304 = 303.97....Hmmm

Since the post about the Hardesty article didn't have "any" reference to VMPS (even though it is in the VMPS forum) you are already inaccurate.

Get a life (and take your medication from now on  )

Give me a break.  I only commented because I found it odd that YOU of all people would comment on the commercial nature of an article.  As far as my observations or reviews of products are concernced, I could frankly care less about what you think.  I have never made a dime or received a discount beyond those available to the general public.  I hope people understand that the same does not apply for the likes of you.  

Also, I haven't said anything bad about VMPS in a long time, not since I listened to a pair of 626's and some VM40's.  The speakers are the real deal, and you are entitled to your comments.  I just thought it was humorous that you would comment on an article being a "commercial".  Nothing more.  If you didn't mean it as a slam, it sure sounded that way. Enough so that another person commented before I did.  

If "getting a life" involves researching all of your old posts, I'll pass.  That's a fate worse than death in my book...or at least root canal.  

Chill out,  just an observation.  

Jman

[John Casler]

If "getting a life" involves researching all of your old posts, I'll pass. That's a fate worse than death in my book...or at least root canal.

Let me see those teeth....I think we can arrange something.

[jackman]

Be careful what you ask for...

J

[John Casler]

You are correct.  I stand forewarned.      

[bkwiram]

I don't sell anything audio-related - and I felt that Hardesty's material was less interesting than it ought to have been. Having paid $40 for the first 8-odd issues of his journal, I expected something more hard-hitting than an extended infomercial for Thiel, Vandersteen, and Dunlavy. Yes, there was other stuff in there (repeat after me: a nice step response graph means the speaker is good), but not $40 worth.

Casler is a motivated dealer for whose online advice you pay nothing.  Makes it hard to complain about paying too much for the service, eh?

cheers,

bk

[John Casler]

Thanks BK

[jackman]

Yea, thanks BK, for making me feel guilty!  I was in a pissy mood last week and should not have said those things.   John is a good guy and someone I want to stay on good terms with if I ever purchase any VMPS stuff.  I have gone through a lot of gear over the years and never say never.

Cheers!

J

[John Casler]

 John is a good guy and someone I want to stay on good terms with if I ever purchase any VMPS stuff.  
J

Jman,

No Hard feelings.  I know you by now, and when you need VMPS...just let me know.

[jackman]

I guarantee that if I look at VMPS (they are very nice speakers and it's totally in the realm of possibility) that you will receive a call.  Having followed your posts, I know you as a good and trustworthy person.  That matters more than the other BS I was all tangled up in last week.  

Hopefully, I'll meet you in person one of these days and hear your system.  I bet it sounds great.

J

[James Romeyn]

John Casler, you funny...  

I too, same as Jackman, am sick & tired of all these self promoting VMPS dealers!  

Contact me if I can help in any way...