Which Cds top your lists' for redues?

1000a · « **on:** 15 May 2007, 06:36 pm »

One that really stands out in my collection is Jeff Beck Group: Rough and Ready.

What I am saying here is each of us have some very specific music that we enjoy a good deal more than other Cds (which are far easier to tolerate poor sound from) than our favs.

So this post might alert us to reissues that sound better but we are unaware of. Or even tweaks to improve the sound on a PC then playing thru a squeeze box and so forth. "Or I made 6 diff. burns of this CD and with each new copy the sound became better than the awful one from the store, so now I am able to enjoy it as before I had to just play it in the car."

My list would be:

Miles Davis: Kinda Blue (last yrs reissue to the org master has distortion on it I find makes me turn it off- anybody have a version they enjoy?)

Why do many of Mellencamp's Cds sound bad, is the engineer smoking crack or does Mellencamp himself hear body in the recordings where I hear lifeless cartoon characters?

Anybody heard the reissues, that are coming out?

The first 2 Jethro Tull LPs have recently gotten the newest remaster Cd job and infact I was rather pleased having heard so many redoes that suck of other bands. These are pretty good and considering the band had no budget at the time, Ah yes many times less is truly more. In fact these are very good for the most part, I recommend easily.

I can not find a decent Cd(s) version of the first 2 Allman Bros. Band Lps they are thinnish and a little grating, my LPs were not great but these truly suck. Any news or better versions on Dreams or other compilations?

Peter Wolf: Sleepless (of J Giels fame, doing singer songerwriter stuff as Dave Alivn and others are doing) +10 music +10 sonics, I really like this LP and it sounds fantastic IMS. Shocking infact for pop or rock, more like a well recorded jazz Lp lots of space very good!

any takers?

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 May 2007, 11:28 pm »

all of these were never that great on vinyl and could use a solid dose of tube remastering

Van Morrison Astral Weeks-
BB King- Indianola MIssissippi seeds
Anything by Nick Drake
Lou Reed- rock n roll animal
All the steely dan stuff- I think the box set is bright thin and harsh

now i have to remember something more modern...but they all sound crappy anyway.

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 May 2007, 11:37 pm »

None.

If they didn't get it right the first time, they never will. I learned that long ago. It is the recording, not the medium. I bought way too many re-do's of what ever and while it maybe a tad better, if it's not done right the first time, forget it. IMHO.

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 May 2007, 11:40 pm »

Interesting point. But is it possible there are some "raw" original pre mastered tapes that can be redone?

If recorded (and saved digitally) i think you could be 100 percent right but i await some one with technical knowlege to comment

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 May 2007, 11:48 pm »

I've been recording for 40 years. If you end up with a turd, you will always have a turd. No "re-do" will ever fix it. If you have a nice recording (on the other hand) there could be hope. Digital processing can fix so much, but that is it.

1000a · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 May 2007, 11:55 pm »

interesting I know I was disappointed with my Steely Dan Cds especially Countdown, but recently Royal Scam sounded quite good. I'll have to figure out if its a new redo. I know I just bought it w in 6 months tops.

Astral Weeks I have, have not listened to it since I redid stereo, I'll see what mine sounds like. I have Lou Reed: NY it sounds not so great. Infact many of the rock Cds I have don't hold a candle to my jazz stuff overall.

On the other hand since using magwire and doing Halos on the tubes some Cds I thought were sub-par like some Joni Mitchell I have is now quite rich very full impressive. But for that 10,000 Maniacs: in my tribe still sounds crappy.

anyway this thread might make and interesting lab and feed back station particularly if the same Cds sound crappy in one rig and good in another, a stretch but who knows.

1000a · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 May 2007, 12:04 am »

Wayner

agreed but when we have a decent to good vinyl version of the same Lp/music is it not in the powers of the people to be able to produce a decent to good Cd.

This of course having nothing to do with vinyl vs Cd debates, just to keep the thread on track. Cause I have infact heard some pretty good redos, I am not saying they topped the vinyl but some are very good Joe Jackson's stuff comes to my mind as does Dire Straits.

It is really heart breaking for people to produce new music that sounds bad when I have some brand new stuff on Cd that sounds so good.

thanks in advance,

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 May 2007, 12:08 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 15 May 2007, 11:37 pm

None.

If they didn't get it right the first time, they never will. I learned that long ago. It is the recording, not the medium. I bought way too many re-do's of what ever and while it maybe a tad better, if it's not done right the first time, forget it. IMHO.

I respect your opinion and experience. Not too be sniide but what about those albums that sounded bad on original vinyl release, then worse on cd but when redone a second time there was a dramatic improvement. For example the steve hoffman gold redo of the first montrose record.

Arent you really saying what was trying to say before, that is, it is possible that a raw tape could be recorded well but the first master sucked. Therefore you can go back to the original and try again? With better results and regardless of format. Stated another way is it the recording or the mastering? And can you have a do over of the mastering when there is still a good recording around. Or once its mastered its done and there is no going back. This is a sincere inquiry not a comment on your post

Is this true that the stones remasters were done from an ebay purchase. IF so no wonder the record industry is in the pits.

1000a · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 May 2007, 12:20 am »

i get the feeling my exile on main st Cd sounds way better than Nel's vinyl from what he posted and I'm not thrilled with the Cd decent but really a let down. there really should be a direct way to tell the suits and marketing people that we think they suck for passing crap when a little effort would give us way better sound.

what are they are worried the stones stuff will sell so little, they had to do it on the cheap

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 May 2007, 06:59 am »

I really loved the Dire Straits remasters, fwiw.

Jim N. · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 May 2007, 08:13 am »

Quote from: 1000a on 15 May 2007, 11:55 pm

interesting I know I was disappointed with my Steely Dan Cds especially Countdown, but recently Royal Scam sounded quite good. I'll have to figure out if its a new redo. I know I just bought it w in 6 months tops.

The old "Citizen Steely Dan" box is excellent. Best CD versions of their old catalog that I have heard.

Wayner · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 May 2007, 11:44 am »

1000a,

I'm saying that if the original master 2 track tape is bad, it's not going to get much better. As far as what format the music is on, I have great sounding CD's, DVD's, LP's and even cassettes. I also have bad ones.

I do think that some re-mastering engineers try to "doctor-up" some of the bad recordings and actually can improve the sound a little. Especially if they are dull and lifeless. Those recordings that are over-modulated and/or poorly mixed will never recover unless they can re-mix from the multi-track format. Then there is a chance.

IMHO, Remix doesn't equal better, just different. Not saying it can't sound different or better, it won't be great differences unless the master to mother/father process was completely hosed-up.

W

PhilNYC · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 May 2007, 11:54 am »

Quote from: 1000a on 15 May 2007, 06:36 pm

Miles Davis: Kinda Blue (last yrs reissue to the org master has distortion on it I find makes me turn it off- anybody have a version they enjoy?)

I have a Japanese re-master of this from May 2001 (or maybe 2000?) which I find to be the best version available on CD. It was released by Sony...

PhilNYC · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 May 2007, 11:55 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 15 May 2007, 11:37 pm

None.

If they didn't get it right the first time, they never will. I learned that long ago. It is the recording, not the medium. I bought way too many re-do's of what ever and while it maybe a tad better, if it's not done right the first time, forget it. IMHO.

Check out the original and the Verve remaster of Jimmy Smith's Root Down. The improvement in the Verve remaster is so much better it almost sounds like a different performance.

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 May 2007, 09:54 pm »

I'm glad that some recordings are being recovered for the better. I certainly am for that. I just think that the redo doesn't always pan out as one would hope.

I think there is a culturally accepted theory that if it is recorded digitally, it must be good.

The great sound you hear is because several engineers did a great job at recording, mixing and mastering. There are many opportunities to hose something up by inexperienced or aggressive hands. Lets hope the industry proves me wrong and all of these lack-luster recordings can be remastered to shine like pearls.

Could you imagine an entire collection of Cd's or Lp's that sounded fantastic, like the artist intended?

Daverz · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Jun 2007, 09:48 am »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 16 May 2007, 11:54 am

Quote from: 1000a on 15 May 2007, 06:36 pm
Miles Davis: Kinda Blue (last yrs reissue to the org master has distortion on it I find makes me turn it off- anybody have a version they enjoy?)

I have a Japanese re-master of this from May 2001 (or maybe 2000?) which I find to be the best version available on CD. It was released by Sony...

HMV Japan shows a 2005 Japanese issue, SICP-816.

I have the 1997 20-bit issue. This has some mild blasting distortion in a few places, but not enough to keep me from enjoying the music. I thought I read somewhere that there was an HDCD issue, but this one doesn't light up the HDCD indicator on my player.

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 02:24 pm »

Many of the early CD rock releases need to be re-mastered, if they haven't been done yet. Quite a few of them were released using the RIAA equalization curve for vinyl, instead of being re-equalized for the flatter and wider freq response of CDs. A couple of perfect examples are Kansas - 2 For The Show (the double live album) and REO Speedwagon - Live: You Get What You Play For. I'm not saying either of these had fantastic production quality on vinyl, but they were much, much worse on CD. The LPs actually have bass, which is completely missing on the CD releases.

Pretty much all of Jimi Hendrix's stuff could stand being re-mastered, especially if they still have the original raw tapes.

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 04:11 pm »

Quote from: Dan Driscoll on 7 Jun 2007, 02:24 pm

Many of the early CD rock releases need to be re-mastered, if they haven't been done yet. Quite a few of them were released using the RIAA equalization curve for vinyl, instead of being re-equalized for the flatter and wider freq response of CDs. A couple of perfect examples are Kansas - 2 For The Show (the double live album) and REO Speedwagon - Live: You Get What You Play For. I'm not saying either of these had fantastic production quality on vinyl, but they were much, much worse on CD. The LPs actually have bass, which is completely missing on the CD releases.

Pretty much all of Jimi Hendrix's stuff could stand being re-mastered, especially if they still have the original raw tapes.

Dan- take this as a light hearted joke-- it is a crime to mention hendrix within 100 words of REO or kansas. What next, a double album of allman brothers and styx? We all know that taste is subjective but....

back on topic. this is a great thread. Too bad it has seen little activity. Let me add that the first round of "band" cds sounded pretty awful. But i cant recall if the vinyl was any better. The box set may have improved them but if not these are ripe for a redo also. The little feat catalog is also something which should be examined for the hoffman type treatment.

1000a · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 04:36 pm »

I am finding the more attention I give my room (= as importantant as my entire stereo 50/50) and its treatment the better all my CDs sound - some have come so far its is a revelation and really sound quite good, so if you have not stared down that alley, its highly recomended, many CDs are quite good but suffer at the hands of our listening rooms. For a quick taste of bass traps on the cheap get plastic bags of insulation place in the corners, if you have none it will be a startling revelation to say the least.

On the other hand others like Southside Johnny, I Don't Want to Go Home (4' wide stage & flat) & 10,000 Maniacs, In my Tribe 5' stage some 3d) suck. I have found a place called BGO records online that has remastered some of the CDs that the major labels have eqnored, such as the 1st 3 Southside Johnny CDs. I will let you know a comparison to the factory release.

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 06:58 pm »

Quote from: kbuzz3 on 7 Jun 2007, 04:11 pm

Dan- take this as a light hearted joke-- it is a crime to mention hendrix within 100 words of REO or kansas. What next, a double album of allman brothers and styx? We all know that taste is subjective but....

Hmmm, Duane Allman trading licks with Tommy Shaw...

If that one got ya, wait till you hear this; except for a couple of songs, I really don't care for Hendrix's music. I admire his guitar playing, but in the same way I admire Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, etc. Mad skillz, but not my favorite music.