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Industry Circles => Tortuga Audio => Topic started by: tortugaranger on 27 Aug 2020, 01:18 pm

Title: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 Aug 2020, 01:18 pm
Hi All,

Since we're about a week away now from releasing our latest preamp, the LDR300x.V3, it's time to organize a tour.  I've been at this now for 10+ years and to my ears the LDR300x.V3 is THE best sounding preamp we've ever made. And at the same time the best preamp for the money since we've also been able to squeeze some of the cost out of our earlier designs without sacrificing sonics.

The LDR300x tour unit will be an active version with a low gain op amp input stage (voltage amplifier) and a JFET buffer output stage (current amplifier). However, by popping the top shell off the enclosure (removing 4 socket head screws), you'll be able to move 2 jumpers turning it into a passive preamp that bypasses the active stage. I encourage you to try this and get your impressions.

But wait there's more!! The ePot.V3 Max board inside the LDR300x has a plug-in attenuation module. We currently make an LDR version and also a discrete thin film resistor version of this module. I will include both module types with the tour unit and you can try both attenuation module types and let everyone know your impressions.

In summary, participating in this tour will let you compare a single preamp in both active and passive mode with both an LDR attenuator and a discrete resistor (logarithmic ladder) attenuator. Cool beans!

Tour Rules:

1) 10 people plus 2 standby in case someone drops out
2) You get the unit for 1 week MAX!!! You receive it on a Monday, you ship it out no later than the following Monday. So if you're not ready to actually listen to it because you have too much  else going on please be honest about that and take a pass rather than sit on the unit for several weeks. Yes, that has happened in the past.
3) You MUST insure the shipment with tracking info when you send it onwards to the next person.
4) By participating you agree to post your impressions in this thread. Nobody expects you to be a clever pro wordsmith. In your own authentic words is good enough.
5) Once the tour list is full up I'll ask all participants to provide their full name, phone, email, and home address which I'll keep private except that I'll send the contact info of the next person to the current person so they can ship it forward when the time comes. 

If you're interested please respond to this thread or PM me.

Product page: https://tortugaaudio.com/products/passive-preamps/ldr300x-v3-preamp/ (https://tortugaaudio.com/products/passive-preamps/ldr300x-v3-preamp/)

The link below is to the product thread on AudioCircle by way of reference. But please use this current tour thread for all questions and comments specific to this tour.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168215.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168215.0)

Cheers,
Morten  :thumb:
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 Aug 2020, 02:48 pm
Tour List Update

1) glynnw
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: GentleBender on 27 Aug 2020, 03:11 pm
I’d love to have a listen. I’m in the 34470 zip code.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 Aug 2020, 03:21 pm
Tour List Update

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Delta77 on 27 Aug 2020, 04:13 pm
Tour List Update

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) Delta77
4)
5)
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 Aug 2020, 04:44 pm
Tour List Update

And then there were 4!

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) Delta77
4) JTF
5)
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: mresseguie on 27 Aug 2020, 04:46 pm
Morten,

My zip is 97330. I'd like to participate in this tour.

Michael
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Delta77 on 27 Aug 2020, 06:26 pm
Oh, was I supposed to send my zip..
Here you go I hope I'm still 3-4th on the list..

BURT...
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 27 Aug 2020, 06:30 pm
Oh, was I supposed to send my zip..
Here you go I hope I'm still 3-4th on the list..

BURT...

I forgot to mention this in the "Tour Rules" but what I'll do is sort the addresses before we kick off and arrange the tour sequence to minimize the shipping distances/cost between each tour member. This means the sequence of this list below will likely get rearranged.

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) Delta77
4) JTF
5) mresseguie
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 27 Aug 2020, 09:26 pm
Please sign me up for the tour, would love to hear the new pre
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 27 Aug 2020, 09:27 pm
Sorry, forgot to mention my zip is 98136
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: krustykat on 28 Aug 2020, 12:12 am
please sign me up too!   Zip:27539
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 28 Aug 2020, 01:00 am
And...we've got 7

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) Delta77
4) JTF
5) mresseguie
6) MttBsh
7) krustykat
Eight)
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: richidoo on 28 Aug 2020, 12:10 pm
please sign me up too!   Zip:27539

Hey that's my zip too!  :thumb:
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 31 Aug 2020, 12:41 pm
And...we've got 8 plus room for a couple of standbys.

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) Delta77
4) JTF
5) mresseguie
6) MttBsh
7) krustykat
Eight) Emiel
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: sruffle on 7 Sep 2020, 02:00 pm
I would be interested in participating.  My zip is 07043.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 7 Sep 2020, 03:19 pm
A quick update on the LDR300x and the tour. On Friday the power supply in our large format CNC machine developed a problem which stopped us from making the very last part needed for the LDR300x builds. We subsequently moved our CNC unit from an uncooled space 5 miles across town to our main shop which is cooled where we can repair it in relative comfort. We are in South Florida and it's 90-95 F here every blessed day June through October. Got the move done over the Labor Day weekend. With some luck we'll have it up and working again later this week and break loose the tour unit.

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) Delta77
4) JTF
5) mresseguie
6) MttBsh
7) krustykat
Eight) Emiel
9) sruffle
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 16 Sep 2020, 01:34 pm
Ok. We are finally rolling new 300x.V3 units through production and expect to break one loose for the tour and ship it out early next week to the first participant.

What I need from each of you is to PM or email me (morten@tortugaaudio.comi) the following info:

Your Full Name
Address
Phone #
Email address

I will not share any of that info publicly. I will however PM or email you the contact info of the next person on the tour so you can ship the unit forward.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 26 Sep 2020, 02:11 pm
This past week flew by us and while we were busy as can be we did not get our tour unit out the door as planned. As with any new release there are the inevitable last minute issues that need tending and kinks that need ironing out. Tending and ironing chew up a lot of time but after 4-5 weeks with our new ePot.V3 series boards and products things are already smoothing out nicely. Expect to see an update on the tour very soon along with a notice that the unit has been shipped off to the first participant.

Regarding the tour unit itself, it will be nominally configured as an active preamp including the VCAP CuTf (copper teflon) output coupling cap upgrade. However, you'll be able to evaluate it both as an passive and as an active preamp. To switch between passive/active modes you'll need to remove the 2 topmost socket head screws on both the front and rear panels. This will free up the top half of the split case enclosure. Once you have the top off, there are two jumpers located in the right rear corner on the input/output interface board. The jumpers slip on to 2 of 3 pins. In one position "P" you get passive, in the other position "A" you get active. In the passive position the active gain/buffer board is simply bypassed entirely.

I would ask that each participant put the unit back into its default active mode before shipping it on to the next person. You can operate the unit with its top off so you can switch back and forth between passive/active if you wish. Make sure you power it down OR turn off your amp before switching modes.

Talk soon,
Morten



Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 4 Oct 2020, 02:38 pm
Another week flew by as we made numerous updates to the firmware. That work is done now so the tour unit goes out this week...finally.

1) glynnw
2) GentleBender
3) UNCOLA
4) MttBsh
5) krustykat
6) Emiel
7) sruffle
8') Delta77
9)
10)

standby
1)
2)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 11 Oct 2020, 02:12 pm

** Updated **

Here's the tour sequence lineup. We start off waaaay  west in Hawaii, then Washington, California, Arizona, back to the east coast in New Jersey, then North Carolina and finally full circle to Florida. The Midwest is missing - where'd you guys go?

After much hurry up and wait the tour kicks off this week. We've been doing a ton of work the last 2-3 weeks refining the firmware based mostly on initial feedback. glynnw dropped out of the tour because he went ahead and bought one instead...no patience ;)

Still have room to add a few as we move along.

Please remember your commitment to keep the tour unit for no more than one week. Which means if you receive it on a Monday you ship it on to the next person no later than the following Monday.

Enjoy and look forward to your feedback/reviews.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) Bob2 - MI
6) sruffle - NJ
7) krustykat - NC
8') GentleBender - FL
9) jriggy - ??
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: jriggy on 11 Oct 2020, 02:57 pm
You’re calling for me now here in the mid-west! And I was thinking about asking to join after seeing the tour recently.

Have always been interested in trying one of your offerings since I do like DAC direct to amp for some listening, so I thought I’d also probably enjoy a passive.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Bob2 on 11 Oct 2020, 04:04 pm
I'm interested. 49286.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 11 Oct 2020, 09:20 pm
You’re calling for me now here in the mid-west! And I was thinking about asking to join after seeing the tour recently.

Have always been interested in trying one of your offerings since I do like DAC direct to amp for some listening, so I thought I’d also probably enjoy a passive.


I'll add you in.
Please send PM me your full name, address, phone # & email address.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 11 Oct 2020, 09:20 pm
I'm interested. 49286.



I'll add you in.
Please send PM me your full name, address, phone # & email address.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 12 Oct 2020, 02:57 pm
Well, looks like we filled in that Midwestern hole with 2 additions from Indiana and Michigan.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) jriggy - IN
6) Bob2 - MI
7) sruffle - NJ
8') krustykat - NC
9) GentleBender - FL
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: uncola on 20 Oct 2020, 08:49 pm
 usps sent me a note saying it's being delivered TODAY  :D
edit:  oops, something else is being delivered today.  the Tortuga preamp is being SHIPPED today
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 21 Oct 2020, 06:36 pm
usps sent me a note saying it's being delivered TODAY  :D
edit:  oops, something else is being delivered today.  the Tortuga preamp is being SHIPPED today

Yes, the tour unit has finally left the building and is on its way to Hawaii so we are off and running on this tour at last.

We've been doing a LOT of updating, improving and bug killing since the release of the V3 a few weeks back and feel the LDR300x.V3 is already fairly far up the maturation curve.

We ran into 2 problems worth noting; random lock-ups and sonic artifacts during volume change. Both have now been resolved.

It took a while to solve the random lock-ups but we finally got that taken care of. We only recently became aware of the sonic artifacts (soft putt-putt-putt-putt motorboating sound usually associated with unstable op amps - not the case here). The sonic artifacts were only present during volume change or when the screensaver was running (with the swimming turtle). The artifacts were from high frequency serial data bursts being sent to the the OLED display anytime the display was being updated. We didn't notice these artifacts during development for the simple reason that they were very faint - we had to put our ear next to the speaker/driver to notice. After some analysis we decided to stop having the turtle swim continuously when the screensaver is active. We also made changes to the serial data transmission firmware that substantially quieted these transmissions. In our view these sonic artifacts are now essentially undetectable (with normal ears) and, most importantly, are NEVER present at all during normal listening.

We hope you all enjoy the tour experience and we look forward to your questions, comments and suggestions.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 23 Oct 2020, 05:39 pm
Dear Tour Participants,

I thought I'd elaborate on the possible ways you can evaluate the LDR300x.V3 that can make for a more interesting experience.

Active vs. Passive - The tour unit comes configured as an active preamp. However, you can remove the top half of the enclosure in order to access jumpers JPL and JPR located on the Interface Board near the right side of the rear panel. By moving the jumpers on on JPL and JPR from the "A" position to the "P" position you effectively bypass the active gain/buffer board and can operate the preamp as a passive unit.

Active - Unity Gain or +6 dB - The active tour unit is set to unity (1.0X) gain hence there's no actual amplification of the audio signal within the preamp. The 2 unity gain modules can be swapped out for a pair of +6 dB gain modules provided with the tour unit. Please be aware that the gain modules must be aligned properly such that the white dot on the plug-in module is on the same side of the 4 pin module header as the white dot on the board.  Sound complicated but it will make more sense when you see it.

LDR vs Discrete Attenuation - The tour unit comes set up with an LDR attenuation module installed. This module can be removed and replaced with a discrete attenuation module that uses thin film resistors only. The LDR module has 100 steps of attenuation while the Discrete module has 127 steps of attenuation. Arguably a bit overkill at 127 steps but it was either that or 63 steps which, while plenty granular, would be considerably less than the 100 steps with the LDR. When swapping theses modules, please only do so by first powering down the preamp and either disconnecting it from your amp or making sure your amp is turned off. Common sense stuff.

When done with the tour unit and before packing it up and shipping it onwards, please put it back to its original default state of active, unity gain modules and LDR attenuation module.

Thanks and I hope you enjoy the tour.

Cheers,
Morten

P.S.  To remove the top half of the preamp case, remove only the top 2 corner socket screws on both the front and the rear panels. Leave the bottom screws installed. Then gently rock/pry the top half shell up and off the unit.


Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: GentleBender on 24 Oct 2020, 07:11 pm
Can you pin this post to the top of the page? This info will be really helpful for those on the tour. I look forward to seeing what people say about the different settings before I get my hands on it.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 24 Oct 2020, 07:28 pm
Can you pin this post to the top of the page? This info will be really helpful for those on the tour. I look forward to seeing what people say about the different settings before I get my hands on it.

I would if I could figure out how to do it. I can make topics stick to the top but don't see a way to make a post be sticky within a topic. If someone knows if there's a why please enlighten.

Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: uncola on 25 Oct 2020, 01:25 pm
the eagle has landed!  Just got home from work, unpacked it and took photos.  Will plug it in tomorrow :)
first reaction:  the discrete resistor attenuation module is to tiny!  I'm used to it taking up half the space inside a preamp or integrated amp with those relays and huge space taken up by all the resistors. 
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216191)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216192)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216193)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 5 Nov 2020, 12:42 am
    Morten,

    Do you have a list of the sequence of where the LDR300x.V3 preamp tour is heading? I have a few people who want to take a listen and they keep asking me when I might be expecting it to arrive. Thanks!

    Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 5 Nov 2020, 03:00 am
Just as an update I received the tour unit Monday afternoon from Uncola and plan to send it off to Delta77 in a few days. Still need some quiet time to do some critical listening but really like what I've heard so far! 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: uncola on 5 Nov 2020, 04:12 am
I took some pictures of the inside to help you guys change settings, I'll post them tonight after work :)

here I labeled where the settings change areas are
view full size to read the labels https://i.imgur.com/sdAODrZ.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/sdAODrZ.jpg)

view of the passive/active pin jumpers.  left is active, right is passive
https://i.imgur.com/p5j3rhg.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/p5j3rhg.jpg)

here's the gain setting modules..  make sure you align the white dot on the module with the dot on the pcb..  left spot has dot on the bottom, right spot on the top
https://i.imgur.com/KHqGWhr.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/KHqGWhr.jpg)

the ldr/stepped attenuation modules just pop off and on.. you can see it only goes in one way because one side has two rows of pins and the other only one row
https://i.imgur.com/nBYK7Bg.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/nBYK7Bg.jpg)

I used this documentation to figure out the menus.
https://tortugaaudio.com/docs/epot-v3-operation-controls/ (https://tortugaaudio.com/docs/epot-v3-operation-controls/)

So I'm not a preamp guy at all, I started using preamp out on cheap headphone amps or passive alps rk27 preamps early on in my audio hobby but eventually eliminated them and used digital volume control in my dacs.  But trying the tortuga for a week has sold me on analog preamps and it just blew my mind with the increased dynamics and tactile texture from my philharmonitor 2 way bookshelves that I use near field.  Imaging was better and I was able to pick out instruments more clearly from the soundstage as well.  The imaging was so good I wondered if this is what people describe when they talk about tube amps.   I swapped out the LDR module for the stepped attenuation and it seemed slightly worse to me.  I didn't have time to try purely passive mode, just unity gain.  Not sure if the LDR's create the magic or the fancy VCAPS.  Interested in what other people who try purely passive mode think, if anything is lost other than volume. 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 6 Nov 2020, 12:35 pm
Hi All,

Just a quick update on the tour status. The preamp is currently in Washington with MttBsh this week.

Also, I'd left out LarryD56 from Idaho by mistake earlier.

Cheers,
Morten

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA (has it now)
3) Delta77 - CA  (next up)
4) LarryD56 - ID
5) Emiel - AZ
6) jriggy - IN
7) Bob2 - MI
8') sruffle - NJ
9) krustykat - NC
10) GentleBender - FL
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: kernelbob on 6 Nov 2020, 02:07 pm
Regarding uncola's comment "Not sure if the LDR's create the magic or the fancy VCAPS."  When comparing the LDR module to the stepped resistor module, aren't the VCAPS in the system not involved in the swap?  My understanding is that with the attenuation module swap, the only change is between LDR versus stepped resistor attenuation.

Having the ability to swap the attenuation modules is a great feature and allows the user to easily isolate the sonic difference between their DNA.  I'm a long time Tortuga happy camper, running a Tortuga LDRxB and Tube Buffer in a biamped system with four monoblock amps.  I use the Tube Buffer ahead of my low input impedance solid state bass amps.  The more optimal impedance matching clearly improves not only the bass, but also the mid/treble performance.  I like the design of the new LDR300x-V3 which essentially integrates the Tube Buffer with the LDR controller.

Best,
Robert
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 8 Nov 2020, 05:34 pm
I took some pictures of the inside to help you guys change settings, I'll post them tonight after work :)

here I labeled where the settings change areas are
view full size to read the labels https://i.imgur.com/sdAODrZ.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/sdAODrZ.jpg)

view of the passive/active pin jumpers.  left is active, right is passive
https://i.imgur.com/p5j3rhg.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/p5j3rhg.jpg)

here's the gain setting modules..  make sure you align the white dot on the module with the dot on the pcb..  left spot has dot on the bottom, right spot on the top
https://i.imgur.com/KHqGWhr.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/KHqGWhr.jpg)

the ldr/stepped attenuation modules just pop off and on.. you can see it only goes in one way because one side has two rows of pins and the other only one row
https://i.imgur.com/nBYK7Bg.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/nBYK7Bg.jpg)

I used this documentation to figure out the menus.
https://tortugaaudio.com/docs/epot-v3-operation-controls/ (https://tortugaaudio.com/docs/epot-v3-operation-controls/)

So I'm not a preamp guy at all, I started using preamp out on cheap headphone amps or passive alps rk27 preamps early on in my audio hobby but eventually eliminated them and used digital volume control in my dacs.  But trying the tortuga for a week has sold me on analog preamps and it just blew my mind with the increased dynamics and tactile texture from my philharmonitor 2 way bookshelves that I use near field.  Imaging was better and I was able to pick out instruments more clearly from the soundstage as well.  The imaging was so good I wondered if this is what people describe when they talk about tube amps.   I swapped out the LDR module for the stepped attenuation and it seemed slightly worse to me.  I didn't have time to try purely passive mode, just unity gain.  Not sure if the LDR's create the magic or the fancy VCAPS.  Interested in what other people who try purely passive mode think, if anything is lost other than volume.

Thanks for participating and posting all the pics and info.

Quote
The imaging was so good I wondered if this is what people describe when they talk about tube amps.

Can't say that amps don't matter in regards to stereo imaging but I would argue that amps can't do better than what they're given.....whether tube or solid state. In my view, volume control devices can have an outsized impact on stereo imaging and sound quality generally. Our V3 series of preamp controllers do a great job of sustaining/resolving the stereo imaging.

Quote
Not sure if the LDR's create the magic or the fancy VCAPS.  Interested in what other people who try purely passive mode think, if anything is lost other than volume.

You'll find that the magic remains even without the active buffer/VCAPs. The active stage can lend a more definitive punch to the sound depending on the system it's installed in. But for systems with sources that have excellent robust output/drive stages there's minimal discernable benefit form the active gain/buffer stage unless you really need some gain to maintain adequate volume control headroom (i.e. "10" isn't loud enough and there's no 11). Most systems don't need any actual gain from a preamp.

The other scenario where the active gain/buffer provides a better solution than a passive alone is when driving into a low impedance amp (puts undue load on your source) or when driving into separate primary plus subwoofer amps from the same passive preamp output in which case the combined effective impedance of a passive plus 2 amps all in parallel can drop low enough to negatively impact sound quality. Adding the active buffer to the preamp mitigates this issue.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 11 Nov 2020, 05:36 am
I have very much enjoyed the week with the LDR300x.V3 in my system, it is now in route to Delta77 in California.

I've had a Tortuga passive in my system for the past 5 years and it's in a different (higher) league from any other preamp I've heard including the Dodd battery powered pre it replaced, Eastern Electric and others over the years.  My Tortuga passive is a DIY model that's about three times the size and five times the weight of LDR300x.V3. I listened very carefully to the LDR300x.V3 and thought I heard a slight refinement to the sound, but when I put my older model back in the system it sounded every bit as good, in a blind test I would not have been able to tell the difference. This is not in any way a negative about the LDR300x.V3, it is an exquisite preamp that delivers crystal clear, deep, smooth and detailed sound. Anyone who hears a Tortuga for the first time is in for a real surprise. It's hard to come to terms with the fact that such a compact, lightweight device can produce such glorious sound, especially for a grand or under. I only listened in the active mode so can't comment on how it sounds in passive mode but I suspect any differences would be very small.  I really appreciate the styling and layout, how easily one can change inputs, volume, etc.

I want to thank Morten for his generosity in sending out tour models of his equipment to try out, his designs and implementation are truly state of the art.

Here is my system:
Source: Channel Islands Audio DMC-1 Network player/DAC
Preamp: Tortuga passive
Amp: Digital Amplifier Company STM King MK2
Speakers: Cain & Cain Abbys with Fostex T900A Horn supertweeters, dual subs
Cables: Zenwave powercords and interconnects
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Delta77 on 15 Nov 2020, 09:11 pm
Got the LDR300 installed about an hour ago..

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217035)


First impression: I Like it.. Sounds very nice.. If I had purchased this one , it wouldn’t be going back..

I will give it some more time , and I will try to give a description of what I’m liking about this preamp...

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217037)

To make the RCA cables reach I had to set the unit on its side, just as I did with my previous passive preamp.. (my new 300B is just humungo) working on a new stereo cabinet soon..


Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 16 Nov 2020, 01:07 pm
Hi All,

Lockup Issue - Something to be aware of is the possibility that the tour preamp may lockup and become non-responsive. This is one of those bugs that got by us during development but showed up in production because of the variations in performance from one microcontroller chip to the next. Took us quite a while to get to the bottom of this behavior but it was due to an improper clock setting on the microcontroller. Some units were fine with this and others not so much. This has been corrected going forward through a simple change in the firmware. Just a heads up in case anyone on the tour observes this behavior with the tour unit - just reboot and carry on.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Delta77 on 19 Nov 2020, 01:57 pm
Giving this preamp a work out , day 3 listening to some very familiar tracks from Hirie..

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217160)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217161)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 19 Nov 2020, 02:27 pm
Giving this preamp a work out , day 3 listening to some very familiar tracks from Hirie..

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217160)

Noticed that the preamp was in Mono mode as indicated by the "Mono" message in upper right hand corner of the display. We sometimes get calls from owners asking about this. You can toggle between  stereo and mono mode by pressing the center button on the remote 2 times in a row (not too fast, not too slow). In normal stereo mode the "Mono" message will disappear - it won't say "Stereo".

Thought I'd mention this just in case you weren't aware of it.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Mollydog on 20 Nov 2020, 04:46 am
Not sure if I can still get on the list.  I would like to.  Regards,  Rich
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 20 Nov 2020, 01:40 pm
A quick update on the status of the tour.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA  (has it now)

4) LarryD56 - ID (up next)
5) Emiel - AZ
6) jriggy - IN
7) Bob2 - MI
8') sruffle - NJ
9) krustykat - NC
10) GentleBender - FL

Standby List
1) Mollydog
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Delta77 on 23 Nov 2020, 02:14 pm
Hello all,
I removed the LDR300xV3 yesterday, and have the mailing info for Emiel..
I will mail today after work..

I listened to the Tortuga just the way it came, without trying to change it to the passive state.. I didn’t want to make any changes over the 5-6 days I had to audition the unit..

The first day was great the second day was kinda IDK (maybe my ears) not so good.. The third day the Tortuga was playing great again which lasted until I took it out..

So I will give some description of some of the things I noticed.. As you can see I’m not much of a writer, but I will give it a shot..

Smooth , is the first word on my notes.. I also wrote that the soundstage seems to have been taken under the wings of the Tortuga (not exactly sure how to describe it)..
Everything was in the right place and the db levels seem to also be under control..

Control was second on my notes.. The Tortuga LDR300xV3 has Lots of adjustable volume control..Also very easy to adjust little increments.. No funky noises, pops, or clicks, Nice...

No listening fatigue was noticed while in my system.. I listened to the Tortuga about 4-6 hours a day for 5-6 days.. I didn’t experience any strong feelings of wanting to remove it (which is what usually happens when a product doesn’t work for me)..

Lastly I didn’t feel as though my system out classed the Tortuga preamp, but I would probably be more interested in their higher end models..

Thanks Morten for sending it my way,
Burt...

My system for reference...

InnuOS, Zen - Streamer
Modwright/OPPO, 205 - DAC /CDP
Decware, Zrock2- Bass restoration (bypassed)
Aric Audio, passive- Preamp ( replaced with Tortuga LDR300xV3 )
Aric Audio, Super 300B - Amp
Tekton, Double Impact SE- Speakers
Tekton, Enzo - Subs x2
PI Audio Group, UberBUSS- conditioner
Zenwave, RCA & SC
TWL & Cullencable, power cables


Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Delta77 on 24 Nov 2020, 12:15 am
Morten messaged me the address info for Emiel in Az., so that is where I shipped it..
Here is the tracking info..

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217358)

Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 25 Nov 2020, 01:01 am
Hoping the preamp makes it's way to me next (I thought it was heading my way this week). This actually works out better for me since I'd like to pair it up with my new Cherry STM MkII that should be arriving any time now. I've got five people ready to take a listen when the preamp shows up.

Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 25 Nov 2020, 01:44 am
Hoping the preamp makes it's way to me next (I thought it was heading my way this week). This actually works out better for me since I'd like to pair it up with my new Cherry STM MkII that should be arriving any time now. I've got five people ready to take a listen when the preamp shows up.

Larry D.

Hi Larry, I too hooked the LDR300x.V3 to my relatively new Cherry STM MKII amp and I think you’ll find it makes an amazing pairing. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 25 Nov 2020, 04:27 pm
Hoping the preamp makes it's way to me next (I thought it was heading my way this week). This actually works out better for me since I'd like to pair it up with my new Cherry STM MkII that should be arriving any time now. I've got five people ready to take a listen when the preamp shows up.

Larry D.

My apologies to LarryD56 for not following the published order. It was purely accidental. I've updated the tour list to reflect where we are.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA

4) Emiel - AZ (has it now)
5) LarryD56 - ID (up next)
6) jriggy - IN
7) Bob2 - MI
8') sruffle - NJ
9) krustykat - NC
10) GentleBender - FL

Standby List
1) Mollydog
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Emiel on 27 Nov 2020, 12:35 am
Sorry for not checking in earlier, I just saw that it was shipped to me. I looked at the UPS tracking code and looks like something went wrong with my unit number and UPS had to correct it and are delivering it tomorrow. Looking forward to getting it hooked up tomorrow!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Emiel on 27 Nov 2020, 08:47 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217498)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217499)


The preamp just made it to my door, safe and sound! Plugged it into the system and have been listening for the last hour. Initial impressions is that it sounds very controlled compared to my Schiit Saga, especially in the bass department of which I have plenty on tap. Cranking the volume for a quick stress test revealed that the bass stays very controlled and clean even at very high volumes. This is not something that sounds entirely pleasant when I try it with my Schiit Saga, but with LDR300x I feel like I will be pushing the volume up a little bit over the next few days because it sounds very good at high volume, sorry neighbours!

The system is fully open-baffle and consists of:

DAC: Parasound D/AC 1100 HD
Amplifier: Dayens Menuetto
Subwoofer Amplifier: Dayton SA1000
Speakers: Caintuck Audio Betsy baffle with 8 inch Alnico Wild Burro drivers
Subwoofer: Dayton Audio PSS555-8 21" Subwoofer, naked/no-baffle
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 29 Nov 2020, 07:57 pm
Hi Larry, I too hooked the LDR300x.V3 to my relatively new Cherry STM MKII amp and I think you’ll find it makes an amazing pairing. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

MttBsh,

   I'm supposed to get my King STM MkII by Wednesday. Had the double rail caps added. The delayed schedule works out the best so that I can hear the new amp and Tortuga preamp together. I already have a Megaschino, but I wanted to have a new amp for the upstairs system. Also purchased a DAC DAC 3, but they're not quite through production yet. Looking forward to hearing what the Tortuga can do in my system.

Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 29 Nov 2020, 10:14 pm
MttBsh,

   I'm supposed to get my King STM MkII by Wednesday. Had the double rail caps added. The delayed schedule works out the best so that I can hear the new amp and Tortuga preamp together. I already have a Megaschino, but I wanted to have a new amp for the upstairs system. Also purchased a DAC DAC 3, but they're not quite through production yet. Looking forward to hearing what the Tortuga can do in my system.

Larry D.

Larry - that's great that you will hear the two together, I have no doubt you will love the Tortuga/Cherry combination. I would also be very interested in hearing your impression of how the King STM MkII compares to the Megashino, which I have never heard but would love to some day down the road.

Matt
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Emiel on 4 Dec 2020, 07:30 pm
The preamp is on its way to LarryD56! I really enjoyed my time with it and will write up a review in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 7 Dec 2020, 02:51 pm
Hi All,

LarryD56 has the tour unit for the next week (from when he receives it) with jriggy in Indiana up next after him. We are waiting on feedback from Emiel. Have a nice week everyone!

Cheers,
Morten

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) LarryD56 - ID (has it now)

6) jriggy - IN (up next)
7) Bob2 - MI
8') sruffle - NJ
9) krustykat - NC
10) GentleBender - FL

Standby List
1) Mollydog
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Emiel on 9 Dec 2020, 09:01 pm
Ok, here’s my review of the LDR300x.V3! Quick disclaimer, I was an idiot and forgot about the included hex wrench, so I only ran it in active mode. I wanted to open it up to change up the settings but realized none of my metric hex wrenches fit and I didn’t have time to go to the hardware store to pick up another set that would work. Only when I packed it up to ship it out again, I realized you included the correct hex wrench. So for anybody receiving it next, keep that in mind!

I’ll preface this by being honest, I was very sceptical this would do anything positive for my system. The current preamp I am using is a Schiit Saga which tested incredibly well in terms of distortion figures on audio science review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-saga-tube-pre-amp.6520/


The only issue that it has is that the impedance changes quite a bit throughout the volume range, but it is very low from about 75-100% volume. In tube mode, on the lower volume section, this impedance issue changes the frequency of the sound a lot, predominantly by rolling off the low end. This causes the sound to be very bright and unbalanced in my system which is why I only run it in passive mode where this should not be an issue. Bass is very important to me as my partner is an upright bass player, so I often have the opportunity to compare live upright bass playing and great recordings of upright bass players in my system and in the same room. The upright bass is such a fascinating instrument because it produces very low and visceral bass without ever being boomy. This led me down the path of chasing down the best bass possible in my room which led me to an open baffle 21 inch subwoofer. This produces a very realistic sounding bass response in my regular system with the Schiit saga.

The moment I hooked up the LDR300x.v3 though, I immediately noticed that the bass became more full yet with more control. This was a very pleasant surprise and totally not expected, so for the first day or two, I listened to a bunch of electronic music. Some albums I listened to were Aphex Twin - Ambient Selected works 85-92, Haruomi Hosono - Medicine Compilation From the Quiet Lodge and Surgeon - Europa Code. They all sounded much more controlled, fuller and smoother than with my Schiit saga. Strangely enough, I was turning up the volume to very loud levels without realizing it because everything sounded so smooth. I would try to talk to my partner, thinking the volume was low enough to do so, but then realized we couldn’t understand each other because the volume was up quite high. Switching back to my Schiit saga this week, the opposite happens, I have the feeling that the music is a lot louder but then when I try to talk to my partner, I realize the volume is not up very loud because we can easily hold a short conversation. My thoughts are that with the LDR300x.v3, content below 500 hz is being beefed up a little bit more in comparison to the Schiit saga. On the audio science review analysis, amirm found that the Schiit Saga in tube mode with a low impedance load of 600 ohm, started to droop at 500 hz. In passive mode he did not find this, however, we have to remember that the analysis is only slightly representative of a real-world listening situation. Perhaps even in passive mode, the Schiit saga is taking out some content below 500 hz in my system. This would explain to a certain degree why the LDR300x.v3 sounded fuller, smoother and more balanced, likely because it has better linearity.

Now in terms of the harder to quantify stuff like soundstage and imaging, I felt like the LDR300x.v3 produced a slightly larger soundstage that made the music sound more engaging but at the expense of imaging. I use my system for both movies and music, and I feel like movies are a great way to test imagining as I should be able to clearly correlate somebody's mouth moving with speech. This is where the LDR300x.V3 fell a bit short when compared to the Schiit Saga. The Schiit Saga produces pinpoint imaging, making it really easy to correlate a mouth moving with speech, but the LDR300x.V3 felt a bit more “diffuse” making it harder to pinpoint where sounds are coming from. Switching back to music, I noticed the same, the LDR300x.V3 sounds much more diffuse and I noticed less instrument separation. I believe this is another reason why the LDR300x.V3 sounds smoother, the overall presentation of music sounded more “gelled together” at the expense of some detail and imaging. There are two ways to look at this, and in my opinion pinpoint imaging is not exactly the most natural sounding presentation of music. I thought the sound of the LDR300x.V3 was more natural and pleasant sounding. As Delta77 mentioned, this results in very little listening fatigue. I wanted to listen to music for hours and hours on the LDR300x.V3 whereas with the Schiit saga I can get some listening fatigue at some points, especially when listening to more complex music.

After my first day with electronic music, I switched over to some acoustic music (Ketama - Songhai, Joe Pass - Virtuoso) again everything sounded natural and smooth albeit a bit diffuse. I think for more critical listening, the Schiit saga does a better job with acoustic music, especially with something like Ketama - Songhai because it does a better job at separating the instruments from each other. However, for more enjoyable listening and a more natural presentation, the LDR300x.V3 does a much better job.

Next up was some Jazz and I went through this playlist:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/features/12-great-jazz-recordings-to-test-your-hi-fi-system

All fantastic albums and good recordings. This really put the LDR300x.V3 to the test. We turned off all the lights and settled in for a serious listening session. Overall it was very enjoyable, albeit maybe slightly too laid back for my tastes. The Schiit Saga has a bit more bite which especially for the highly dynamic jazz recordings like those from Rahsaan Roland Kirk, makes things sound a bit more exciting. This however does come at the trade-off of faster listening fatigue.

Alright, now some more practical stuff. The volume control is super smooth and I loved the added flexibility in volume adjustment over the Schiit saga. The preamp looks fine, just a simple black box and it feels nice too. That being said, I prefer the visual appearance of the Schiit saga, but who the hell cares about visuals, sound is what matters here! One of the things I really did not like about the LDR300x.V3 is the apple remote. At first, everything worked fine for an hour but then I started having issues with the LDR300x.V3 locking up every time I used the remote to turn the volume up or down. I quickly realized it was because the remote was also interacting with my apple TV which I use for watching movies. This basically rendered the remote useless for me, so for the rest of my time with the preamp, I just manually turned the volume up and down, which is totally ok, although a remote is nice. Especially when it is pitch black and I’m on my second beer, making the mistake not to check the ABV (13%...ouch!). Stumbling around to turn the volume down in the dark is not a whole lot of fun, and I love having a remote for this purpose. At first, I thought this was just a minor issue for me, but switching back to the Schiit saga, with its custom remote I realized that for me at least, the apple remote is not ideal, at least not when it produces locking up issues. When the apple remote did work, however, it was very nice to use.

One more issue I was having was that the LDR300x.V3 was putting out a very low level but audible bleep sound every two minutes or so. This was super annoying when my system was on but with no music playing. Probably just a firmware thing, but annoying nonetheless. Now if I have to be super nitpicky, I also am not a huge fan of the turtle swimming around on the screen which drew a lot of attention to itself in the dark. It would be nice if there is an option to turn this off.

Overall, I really enjoyed my time with the LDR300x.V3 and to me, it is a worthy upgrade over the Schiit saga!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: jriggy on 10 Dec 2020, 01:43 am
I’ve had a last min scheduling/life conflict arise and I am going to have bail of my turn with the preamp. So sorry guys.

Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 10 Dec 2020, 02:30 am
I got the LDR300x.v3 today and have it playing in my main system. My current preamp is a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE and my initial impression is that the 300 (let's call it that, for briefness) is more natural and has a wider soundstage. The 300 sure doesn't fix harsh recordings. That's good. You're getting what was recorded and not something that was altered (even though you would like to alter some annoying tracks). I've only played a couple CDs so far, but I'm limited with what I can do with this preamp since all of my system is connected with XLRs. I can't play anything through my DAC since it's only outputs are XLRs. I did have adapters for my amp and RCA outputs on my CD player, so I can get some good listening in. I like what I've heard so far. Will report more later.

Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 10 Dec 2020, 03:45 pm
Hi All,

A slight change in the lineup as one drops out and another comes on. Bob2 you are up next after LarryD56.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ

5) LarryD56 - ID (has it now)
6) Bob2 - MI (up next)
7) sruffle - NJ
8') krustykat - NC
9) GentleBender - FL
10) Mollydog

Standby List
1) ** open **
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 10 Dec 2020, 04:23 pm
Hi Emiel,

Thank you for participating in the tour and for your thoughtful review below.

A few thoughts on measurements. Much gets made by some of measurements - the classic objectivist outlook - which distilled down says if it doesn't measure good how can it possibly sound good, or at least sound authentic. As an engineer I'm big on measurement but have learned that measurement is generally a poor proxy for human hearing and the human listening experience. I'm reasonably certain that the Tortuga LDR300x does not measure as well as your Schitt Saga. If measurements were a definitive metric for audio quality we'd simply compare measurements and buy the best equipment with the best measurements we can afford. But people don't do that...for good reasons. People don't buy wine based on chromatography results and few buy audio gear based on measurements.

As I'd posted earlier in this tour thread, the tour unit has a firmware bug that can cause control lock-ups. From your write-up that is what you ran into. That bug has already been fixed (but not in the tour unit) and we've not observed nor received further reports of this behavior.

Since sending out the tour unit, we've changed the way the screensaver works (the swimming turtle). It now no longer swims continuously. We also changed the communications settings eliminating any noise artifacts when updating the OLED display. Keep in mind that the firmware already has a display timeout feature that is turned off by default. The user can both adjust the display brightness as well as the display timeout setting such that when the timer runs out the display goes totally dark until the user uses the remote or control knob again. When the display timeout feature is enabled the screensaver turtle doesn't show up at all.

Thanks again for your participation and feedback.

Cheers,
Morten

Ok, here’s my review of the LDR300x.V3! Quick disclaimer, I was an idiot and forgot about the included hex wrench, so I only ran it in active mode. I wanted to open it up to change up the settings but realized none of my metric hex wrenches fit and I didn’t have time to go to the hardware store to pick up another set that would work. Only when I packed it up to ship it out again, I realized you included the correct hex wrench. So for anybody receiving it next, keep that in mind!

I’ll preface this by being honest, I was very sceptical this would do anything positive for my system. The current preamp I am using is a Schiit Saga which tested incredibly well in terms of distortion figures on audio science review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-saga-tube-pre-amp.6520/ (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-saga-tube-pre-amp.6520/)


The only issue that it has is that the impedance changes quite a bit throughout the volume range, but it is very low from about 75-100% volume. In tube mode, on the lower volume section, this impedance issue changes the frequency of the sound a lot, predominantly by rolling off the low end. This causes the sound to be very bright and unbalanced in my system which is why I only run it in passive mode where this should not be an issue. Bass is very important to me as my partner is an upright bass player, so I often have the opportunity to compare live upright bass playing and great recordings of upright bass players in my system and in the same room. The upright bass is such a fascinating instrument because it produces very low and visceral bass without ever being boomy. This led me down the path of chasing down the best bass possible in my room which led me to an open baffle 21 inch subwoofer. This produces a very realistic sounding bass response in my regular system with the Schiit saga.

The moment I hooked up the LDR300x.v3 though, I immediately noticed that the bass became more full yet with more control. This was a very pleasant surprise and totally not expected, so for the first day or two, I listened to a bunch of electronic music. Some albums I listened to were Aphex Twin - Ambient Selected works 85-92, Haruomi Hosono - Medicine Compilation From the Quiet Lodge and Surgeon - Europa Code. They all sounded much more controlled, fuller and smoother than with my Schiit saga. Strangely enough, I was turning up the volume to very loud levels without realizing it because everything sounded so smooth. I would try to talk to my partner, thinking the volume was low enough to do so, but then realized we couldn’t understand each other because the volume was up quite high. Switching back to my Schiit saga this week, the opposite happens, I have the feeling that the music is a lot louder but then when I try to talk to my partner, I realize the volume is not up very loud because we can easily hold a short conversation. My thoughts are that with the LDR300x.v3, content below 500 hz is being beefed up a little bit more in comparison to the Schiit saga. On the audio science review analysis, amirm found that the Schiit Saga in tube mode with a low impedance load of 600 ohm, started to droop at 500 hz. In passive mode he did not find this, however, we have to remember that the analysis is only slightly representative of a real-world listening situation. Perhaps even in passive mode, the Schiit saga is taking out some content below 500 hz in my system. This would explain to a certain degree why the LDR300x.v3 sounded fuller, smoother and more balanced, likely because it has better linearity.

Now in terms of the harder to quantify stuff like soundstage and imaging, I felt like the LDR300x.v3 produced a slightly larger soundstage that made the music sound more engaging but at the expense of imaging. I use my system for both movies and music, and I feel like movies are a great way to test imagining as I should be able to clearly correlate somebody's mouth moving with speech. This is where the LDR300x.V3 fell a bit short when compared to the Schiit Saga. The Schiit Saga produces pinpoint imaging, making it really easy to correlate a mouth moving with speech, but the LDR300x.V3 felt a bit more “diffuse” making it harder to pinpoint where sounds are coming from. Switching back to music, I noticed the same, the LDR300x.V3 sounds much more diffuse and I noticed less instrument separation. I believe this is another reason why the LDR300x.V3 sounds smoother, the overall presentation of music sounded more “gelled together” at the expense of some detail and imaging. There are two ways to look at this, and in my opinion pinpoint imaging is not exactly the most natural sounding presentation of music. I thought the sound of the LDR300x.V3 was more natural and pleasant sounding. As Delta77 mentioned, this results in very little listening fatigue. I wanted to listen to music for hours and hours on the LDR300x.V3 whereas with the Schiit saga I can get some listening fatigue at some points, especially when listening to more complex music.

After my first day with electronic music, I switched over to some acoustic music (Ketama - Songhai, Joe Pass - Virtuoso) again everything sounded natural and smooth albeit a bit diffuse. I think for more critical listening, the Schiit saga does a better job with acoustic music, especially with something like Ketama - Songhai because it does a better job at separating the instruments from each other. However, for more enjoyable listening and a more natural presentation, the LDR300x.V3 does a much better job.

Next up was some Jazz and I went through this playlist:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/features/12-great-jazz-recordings-to-test-your-hi-fi-system (https://www.whathifi.com/us/features/12-great-jazz-recordings-to-test-your-hi-fi-system)

All fantastic albums and good recordings. This really put the LDR300x.V3 to the test. We turned off all the lights and settled in for a serious listening session. Overall it was very enjoyable, albeit maybe slightly too laid back for my tastes. The Schiit Saga has a bit more bite which especially for the highly dynamic jazz recordings like those from Rahsaan Roland Kirk, makes things sound a bit more exciting. This however does come at the trade-off of faster listening fatigue.

Alright, now some more practical stuff. The volume control is super smooth and I loved the added flexibility in volume adjustment over the Schiit saga. The preamp looks fine, just a simple black box and it feels nice too. That being said, I prefer the visual appearance of the Schiit saga, but who the hell cares about visuals, sound is what matters here! One of the things I really did not like about the LDR300x.V3 is the apple remote. At first, everything worked fine for an hour but then I started having issues with the LDR300x.V3 locking up every time I used the remote to turn the volume up or down. I quickly realized it was because the remote was also interacting with my apple TV which I use for watching movies. This basically rendered the remote useless for me, so for the rest of my time with the preamp, I just manually turned the volume up and down, which is totally ok, although a remote is nice. Especially when it is pitch black and I’m on my second beer, making the mistake not to check the ABV (13%...ouch!). Stumbling around to turn the volume down in the dark is not a whole lot of fun, and I love having a remote for this purpose. At first, I thought this was just a minor issue for me, but switching back to the Schiit saga, with its custom remote I realized that for me at least, the apple remote is not ideal, at least not when it produces locking up issues. When the apple remote did work, however, it was very nice to use.

One more issue I was having was that the LDR300x.V3 was putting out a very low level but audible bleep sound every two minutes or so. This was super annoying when my system was on but with no music playing. Probably just a firmware thing, but annoying nonetheless. Now if I have to be super nitpicky, I also am not a huge fan of the turtle swimming around on the screen which drew a lot of attention to itself in the dark. It would be nice if there is an option to turn this off.

Overall, I really enjoyed my time with the LDR300x.V3 and to me, it is a worthy upgrade over the Schiit saga!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Emiel on 11 Dec 2020, 12:09 am
Hey Morten,

Thanks for letting me be a part of the tour, it was great being able to try out the preamp!

I work in a job where I deal with a lot of analytical chemistry and analysis, particularly concerning botanical extracts so my stance on measurements is a little bit different. I think everything has to be explainable by analysis, otherwise, we are dealing in the realm of fairy dust and magic, and that does not sit well with me. That being said, low distortion values is clearly not what it is all about, it is a lot more complex. Some distortion may even be slightly desirable, or perhaps a bit of compression from a buffer stage. Then we also start getting into the realm of very minor pre-set tone controls basically, helping to enhance the sound. Perfection in distortion and engineering may just be boring for most music listening. However, I still believe we can quantify this with measurements, we may just need to expand that scope and factor in psychoacoustics and even room acoustics, something a standard analysis rig is obviously not taking into account for electronics like amps, DACS and preamps.

That all being said, we all have our own little measurement rig, and those are our ears and when it comes to enjoying music, I agree that's the measurement rig we should rely on most. Still, I would like to see these preferences be explained by science and analysis because liking the way something sounds, corresponds to something physical in the world that is quantifiable yet subjective. The subjectivity part, differences in ear shapes, processing of audio signals in our brains, the frequency response of our ears and just simply personal preference, is where things obviously start to get incredibly difficult.

I like your example of buying wine according to a chromatogram, and to be honest if that were possible that is how I would be buying my wine haha. I could over time identify for example that out of the different acids that can exist in wine such as lactic acid, citric acid, tartaric acid, malic acid and phosphoric acid that I may prefer the acidity of wines high in phosphoric acid while not liking wines that derive most of their acidity from citric acid. If a chromatogram was available on each wine bottle, that would then allow me to pick the wine that best suits my palate. Currently, it's more of a guessing game (and so is the majority of audio to be honest) I think the reason people don't buy wine according to chromatograms is because it is not available and would require a fair amount of education. However, I think if it was available it would be very popular. I hope that one-day analytical chemistry becomes cheap and fast enough where these sort of things are more available to consumers. It's already being used on the production side of things, just look at all the work Anton Paar is doing, a good deal of their analytical equipment these days is catered towards beer brewing and wine production. I think what they are doing on Audio Science Review is fantastic because it gives consumers access to analytical data that most of the manufacturers already have access to anyways and often lie about to their customers too when they do make results available. That being said, they are playing a dangerous game sometimes by only going for low distortion stuff and not taking into account all of the other intricacies of good audio engineering.

Anyways, long story short, I really enjoyed listening to the pre-amp, it sounded very fun and pleasant and I would not at all mind having one in my system! Especially taking into account that the minor bugs have been fixed in the production models!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Randy on 11 Dec 2020, 12:25 am
I like the swimming turtle!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 11 Dec 2020, 01:45 am
My wife loved the swimming turtle too.

I wanted to comment on Emiel's observation that the LDR300x.V3 provided less instrument separation than the Schitt Saga, resulting in music being more "gelled together". Although I've not listened to a Saga, I found the exact opposite effect from putting the Tortuga in my system - I immediately noticed crystal clear channel separation, with superb stereo imaging and soundstage, so I was pretty surprised to read that in Emiel's review. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: rajacat on 12 Dec 2020, 10:00 pm
My wife loved the swimming turtle too.

I wanted to comment on Emiel's observation that the LDR300x.V3 provided less instrument separation than the Schitt Saga, resulting in music being more "gelled together". Although I've not listened to a Saga, I found the exact opposite effect from putting the Tortuga in my system - I immediately noticed crystal clear channel separation, with superb stereo imaging and soundstage, so I was pretty surprised to read that in Emiel's review. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in.

I had the same reaction.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: kernelbob on 13 Dec 2020, 12:37 am
Excuse me for chiming in, I'm not on the preamp tour list, but my experience with both the Tortuga LDR1B and the LDRxB has been their uncanny & unequaled ability to isolate individual instruments in a very wide and deep soundstage, even in the most complex orchestral music.

Best,
Robert
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Emiel on 13 Dec 2020, 02:13 am
Just to be clear, I never said the LDR300x.V3 was bad at imaging and producing instrument separation. What I did say is that in comparison to the Schiit Saga, it is not AS good. The Schiit Saga is an extraordinary preamp for the fact that it doesn't really add anything, nor take away anything. As you can see in the Audio Science Review, for the price the Schiit Saga is a very well engineered pre-amp that based on the measurements will likely be very transparent and not change the sound from our source components much or at all. From actually listening to it, the Schiit Saga is very transparent and doesn't add anything to my music. On one hand this is good and on the other hand this does make things perhaps a touch boring. The LDR300x.V3 on the other hand certainly adds a bit of "audio MSG" to the mix, smoothing things out and increasing fullness a bit. Overall a very natural and enjoyable presentation, and with that said, with great imaging and soundstage too. Better soundstage than the Saga, and imaging that is not as good as the Saga. Again, this is just my opinion and I'm not saying the LDR300x.V3 is bad by any means, in fact, I would love to have one in my system, but I'd also be keeping my Saga. They are both unique, and both produce a fairly different sound, both of which are enjoyable and could be utilized depending on what kind of mood I'm in.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 13 Dec 2020, 02:34 am
    I'm hearing very good instrument & singer separation in my system. The music is very coherent (in timing) and natural sounding. The soundstage has expanded out beyond the previous preamp's soundstage. It's bigger & wider, but still stays cohesive. That's what I'm hearing. I'm using a Cherry Megaschino and a Cherry King STM Mk2 for amplification. My speakers are upgraded/modified Infinity RS2.5's. The CD player is a Cambridge 840C. I hate it that I'm limited to using the CDP since 99% of the time I play music digitally through my computer. I have a (nearly full) 8TB hard drive that I play, but mainly use online sources to listen. If this preamp had two sets of XLR inputs on it I would be wanting one right away. Maybe adapters would work. I'll have to look into that.
    I immediately noticed a little deeper bass once I hooked the Tortuga into the system (compared to my W4S preamp). I don't know what that's attributable to. The bass is still well controlled, just a little more noticeable. I can't say that the Tortuga adds bass or that the W4S preamp left some out, it's just slightly more noticeable in comparison. Not hearing any smoothing here. I do like the small size of the 300 since that blends well with the small size of the Cherry products (STM & DAC DAC 2) and my HP micro computer & LaCie 8TB hard drive.
    With 3 days into it I guess I can sum up my experience thus far as being a pleasant one, me likey. I should have a couple more sets of ears coming over to hear the preamp by Monday. I'll post their reactions.

     Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 13 Dec 2020, 02:48 am
Just to be clear, I never said the LDR300x.V3 was bad at imaging and producing instrument separation. What I did say is that in comparison to the Schiit Saga, it is not AS good. The Schiit Saga is an extraordinary preamp for the fact that it doesn't really add anything, nor take away anything. As you can see in the Audio Science Review, for the price the Schiit Saga is a very well engineered pre-amp that based on the measurements will likely be very transparent and not change the sound from our source components much or at all. From actually listening to it, the Schiit Saga is very transparent and doesn't add anything to my music. On one hand this is good and on the other hand this does make things perhaps a touch boring. The LDR300x.V3 on the other hand certainly adds a bit of "audio MSG" to the mix, smoothing things out and increasing fullness a bit. Overall a very natural and enjoyable presentation, and with that said, with great imaging and soundstage too. Better soundstage than the Saga, and imaging that is not as good as the Saga. Again, this is just my opinion and I'm not saying the LDR300x.V3 is bad by any means, in fact, I would love to have one in my system, but I'd also be keeping my Saga. They are both unique, and both produce a fairly different sound, both of which are enjoyable and could be utilized depending on what kind of mood I'm in.

Thank you Emiel for the clarification. Just curious - are you using the original Saga or the Saga+?
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 13 Dec 2020, 07:30 pm
If this preamp had two sets of XLR inputs on it I would be wanting one right away. Maybe adapters would work. I'll have to look into that.
     Larry D.

Something we've been putting a lot of thought into is an updated flexible enclosure design/approach that doesn't lock us into any one source for a particular size of extruded box or enclosure component. Also looking to raise the bar to arrive at a more distinctive and aesthetically pleasing look than just another black box. And all the while keeping costs down - no milling out enclosures from solid billets of metal etc.

The reason I mention this is as part of that initiative we are working towards an updated version of our existing LDR3000T (tube)  & P (passive) including a new "S" variant (solid state). The LDR3000 series accommodates 3 RCA inputs and 3 XLR inputs and is a balanced preamp at heart. The updated version will have dual outputs of both signal types.

I short, the updated LDR3000 model will essentially be a balanced version of LDR300x with 3 XLR inputs and will be built around the ePot.V3 series stepped attenuator/controller same as the LDR300x currently on tour.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Hikmer on 16 Dec 2020, 04:19 pm
My wife loved the swimming turtle too.

I wanted to comment on Emiel's observation that the LDR300x.V3 provided less instrument separation than the Schitt Saga, resulting in music being more "gelled together". Although I've not listened to a Saga, I found the exact opposite effect from putting the Tortuga in my system - I immediately noticed crystal clear channel separation, with superb stereo imaging and soundstage, so I was pretty surprised to read that in Emiel's review. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in.

I am also curious what other equipment Emiel is using.  I purchased the preamp without trial and while I did run into the issues identified, Morten worked overtime to help me figure it out and get the firmware update.  I recently had a major home renovation and still setting things back up to do a proper review but suffice it to say I plan to keep the LDR300v3 as it provides excellent volume control and a solid presentation of the music over the complete spectrum. 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 17 Dec 2020, 04:13 am
    Well I have the LDR300x.V3 on it's way to jriggy in Indiana. Shipped it out this evening.

    I do wish I had more time to spend with the preamp and do some extensive listening, but I did figure out rather quickly that it bested my Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE in sound reproduction. I cannot explain 'what' made it better, but there was just a bigger presentation of whatever I played. The soundstage was bigger/wider and slightly clearer than the W4S. I could pick out the different players in different places on the soundstage when a recording was a well produced one (I listen for that). As I said in an earlier post I immediately heard more bass on the first track I played. After listening for a while it seems that everything is more 'there'. It seems like more information is getting through the LDR 'connection' than is getting through a wiper type connection or one using contacts and resistors. I don't really know what the reason is, but I like the result. The first album I played was a bit more realistic sounding, very natural, but not smoothed over at all. Later I played some Dire Straits tracks that I knew were bright and edgey and the LDR300x.V3 played them the same as the STP-SE, it didn't mask over the brightness. Very detailed and complicated tracks were not missing anything when they were played through the 300. The Wyred 4 Sound preamp is no slouch and I still like it a lot, but I think there's a Tortuga in the lineup to go into my 2nd system.
    I had a friend (former president of the Boise Audio Club) come over last night to take a listen to the Tortuga. He'd been wanting to hear one for years after reading about them shortly after Morten started making the LDR preamps. I played some albums that he knew very well. He really liked what he heard. The tour is a great way to make this excellent product known. Thank you Morten for making it available to us. Otherwise we would not know what we're missing.

       Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 17 Dec 2020, 01:15 pm
   Oops! Tis the season to be distracted. Looks like I'd been sent the wrong address and the preamp is on it's way to Indiana instead of Michigan. Jriggy had contacted me about it and said he would work something out with Morten. So, Bob2, there will be a slight delay in getting the LDR300x.V3 next.

     Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 17 Dec 2020, 01:42 pm
   Oops! Tis the season to be distracted. Looks like I'd been sent the wrong address and the preamp is on it's way to Indiana instead of Michigan. Jriggy had contacted me about it and said he would work something out with Morten. So, Bob2, there will be a slight delay in getting the LDR300x.V3 next.

     Larry D.

Yep. My bad. Despite updating the list, I managed to send the wrong address. My excuse is we moved our operations across town this past week and well, if you've ever moved, you know how that show goes. 

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) LarryD56 - ID (has shipped)

6) Bob2 - MI (up next)
7) sruffle - NJ
8') krustykat - NC
9) GentleBender - FL
10) Mollydog

Standby List
1) ** open **
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: jriggy on 17 Dec 2020, 02:20 pm
Hey guys,

[Edit: I hadn’t yet seen a personal message from Morten]

I totally understand what moving can do to things...
Maybe Larry can have the unit rerouted? Or maybe Morten can have it picked up and shipped to the next person once it’s here?

Again, sorry I’ve had to bow-out.

Jason
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Bob2 on 17 Dec 2020, 03:18 pm
   Oops! Tis the season to be distracted. Looks like I'd been sent the wrong address and the preamp is on it's way to Indiana instead of Michigan. Jriggy had contacted me about it and said he would work something out with Morten. So, Bob2, there will be a slight delay in getting the LDR300x.V3 next.

     Larry D.

Thanks for the heads up! Where in Indiana? If it's close I could pick it up.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 17 Dec 2020, 04:04 pm
Thanks for the heads up! Where in Indiana? If it's close I could pick it up.

Indianapolis. I'm going to ask to have the unit forwarded to you. No worries.

Best,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Bob2 on 17 Dec 2020, 04:46 pm
Thanks Morten!
Looking forward t giving it a try.
Bob
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 20 Dec 2020, 11:57 pm
   I contacted FedEx and they're supposed to have the preamp re-directed to Bob2. Looks like all should work out.

       Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 21 Dec 2020, 02:13 pm
   I contacted FedEx and they're supposed to have the preamp re-directed to Bob2. Looks like all should work out.

       Larry D.

Hi Larry,

Much thanks and appreciation for re-directing the preamp to Bob2. Wishing you and your family the best over the Christmas holidays.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 21 Dec 2020, 09:48 pm

Interesting update on the LDR3000x.V3 Active version

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168215.msg1836816#msg1836816 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168215.msg1836816#msg1836816)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: jriggy on 29 Dec 2020, 06:19 pm
Hey guys,

The preamp did not get rerouted, landed here yesterday, and I turned it around to Michigan via USPS today, with a prepaid label from Morten.

Was a bummer having it here and sending it off right away. Really wish I could participate.

Have fun

Jason
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 5 Jan 2021, 06:50 pm
Hi All,

The tour preamp has suffered some damage due to having been shipped multiple times where the shaking/vibration has broken loose one of the CuTf coupling caps. This doesn't surprise me given that those caps are about as big and heavy as a roll of quarters and we do not have provisions for strapping down these caps in the current board design.

The good news is Bob2 has agreed to put on his repairman hat and have at it. However, rather than simply reattaching the CuTf VCap I've instructed Bob2 to remove them both altogether. Instead we are converting the active gain/buffer board over to direct coupled output.

Some background. The SSPB.V2 gain/buffer board is a second gen design where we changed to a split voltage power supply (+/- 12V), added an input stage (op amp), and added the ability to adjust the bias current of the JFET output buffer using trim pots (the 2 blue cubes with a screw on top). The split voltage PS together with the adjustable output bias current was intended to allow for the elimination of the output coupling caps (AC coupling) and thus run DC coupled instead. This follows the philosophy of "the best coupling cap is no coupling cap". DC coupling works well provided the DC offset can be kept to a minimum - typically 50 millivolt or less - ideally zero MV.

The SSPB.V2 provided for the use of coupling caps as an initial default. Meanwhile we've had some time to explore running the board without the caps while monitoring the behavior of the DC offset. What we've determined is that once adjusted to near zero DC offset, the offset remains very stable and typically can be held under +/- 5 MV which is more than acceptable. Also, there's no power-on or power-off bump or pop because the SSPB.V2 board has its own muting relay with a delayed unmute when power is first applied. And when power is dropped, the muting relay shunts all output to ground.

Once Bob2 has made the modifications including adjusting the JFET bias current to yield ~0 DC offset, he'll keep the unit for up to a week of listening and then it's back on the road again to the next person but with a direct coupled output.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: uncola on 5 Jan 2021, 10:43 pm
Not to mention direct coupled is cheaper because it doesn't need those fancy capacitors!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 6 Jan 2021, 12:25 am
Not to mention direct coupled is cheaper because it doesn't need those fancy capacitors!


Indeed!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: LarryD56 on 6 Jan 2021, 01:02 am
    When I was preparing the preamp's box to be shipped out the cardboard was already getting rather loose, so I removed all the loose tape and tightly re-taped the entire box. It was looking a bit beat up when I got it. Glad the preamp's case didn't get damaged. Looks like FedEx charged me an additional $5 for their botched re-routing to Bob2. I will be speaking with their billing dept. this week about a refund.  I usually don't have any problems with them.

   Yeah, I'd prefer a stable direct coupled design. Now I'm even more interested in the preamp. Wanting to hear what Bob2 thinks of the LDR300x.V3 after he fixes it.

  Larry D.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 7 Jan 2021, 06:43 pm

Success! Bob made the modifications removing the VCaps, installing direct links, and adjusting the DC offset to ~zero.  Says it's sounding great. Looking forward to reading his review.



Hi All,

The tour preamp has suffered some damage due to having been shipped multiple times where the shaking/vibration has broken loose one of the CuTf coupling caps. This doesn't surprise me given that those caps are about as big and heavy as a roll of quarters and we do not have provisions for strapping down these caps in the current board design.

The good news is Bob2 has agreed to put on his repairman hat and have at it. However, rather than simply reattaching the CuTf VCap I've instructed Bob2 to remove them both altogether. Instead we are converting the active gain/buffer board over to direct coupled output.

Some background. The SSPB.V2 gain/buffer board is a second gen design where we changed to a split voltage power supply (+/- 12V), added an input stage (op amp), and added the ability to adjust the bias current of the JFET output buffer using trim pots (the 2 blue cubes with a screw on top). The split voltage PS together with the adjustable output bias current was intended to allow for the elimination of the output coupling caps (AC coupling) and thus run DC coupled instead. This follows the philosophy of "the best coupling cap is no coupling cap". DC coupling works well provided the DC offset can be kept to a minimum - typically 50 millivolt or less - ideally zero MV.

The SSPB.V2 provided for the use of coupling caps as an initial default. Meanwhile we've had some time to explore running the board without the caps while monitoring the behavior of the DC offset. What we've determined is that once adjusted to near zero DC offset, the offset remains very stable and typically can be held under +/- 5 MV which is more than acceptable. Also, there's no power-on or power-off bump or pop because the SSPB.V2 board has its own muting relay with a delayed unmute when power is first applied. And when power is dropped, the muting relay shunts all output to ground.

Once Bob2 has made the modifications including adjusting the JFET bias current to yield ~0 DC offset, he'll keep the unit for up to a week of listening and then it's back on the road again to the next person but with a direct coupled output.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 13 Jan 2021, 02:15 pm
Hi All,
A quick update on the tour. Had the typical holiday slow down but we are moving forward now.
sruffle is up next.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) LarryD56 - ID
6) Bob2 - MI

7) sruffle - NJ (up next)
8') krustykat - NC
9) GentleBender - FL
10) Mollydog

Standby List
1) ** open **
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Bob2 on 14 Jan 2021, 04:44 pm
The 300 preamp has been here and is on it's way to the next person.

Let me preface this post. I'm not an Audiophile. I'm an enthusiast so no Fancy Pants verbiage, plots or charts.

I use a tone control tube preamp to drive my amp. When Morten started collecting names to try his LDR300x.V3 I thought it was a good time to see how a SS preamp would handle my Stratos Extreme. I signed up and away we go!

Morten has explained what happened with the preamp so no need to get into that.

With the 300 working again I hooked it up for my first listening session. I use a PC that plays music ripped to a hard drive. The PC utilizes an Asus Essence STX II sound card to send the analog signal.
I also use an Azur 851N streaming from various sources.

I spent about 7 hours over two evenings going through a collection of music.
Sound was different than my preamp of course but very good never the less.
I did find that bass was less than I am accustomed to. Mids were a bit more present.
Sound stage was wide and reasonably deep. The 300 presented itself very well.

I planned to listen to vinyl for the next session. That unfortunately did not happen.
I started the session with Brubeck's Take Five Lp cued up. As soon as the needle starting sending a signal the preamp froze. The volume control as well as the remote became unresponsive then the preamp shut down.
I checked to make sure everything was connected properly and tried the album again. Same thing.
I tried with my second tt only to have the same results.

Contacted Morten and he offered up a couple of suggestions for me to try. Sadly those did not rectify the issue.
After some e-mails and phone conversation with Morten there was not much that could be done. The 300 is working in active and passive modes when connected to my PC and the Azur.

I went back through this thread but didn't see any that stated they had listened to vinyl.
So I'm not sure if the stated issue was there prior to the vcap ricocheting around the enclosure.

I did spend a couple of hours listening in passive mode. I feel that active mode is a bit better.
If you are looking for a preamp on a budget it is worth checking it out.

I want to thank Morten for giving us an opportunity to try it out. I have to say that Morten is a brave man for turning me lose making repairs.
Also thanks to Audio Circle for creating a great forum that makes this possible.

Equipment used:
Speakers, Focal Aria 948
Digital Sources, PC, Azur 851N
Analog Sources, Specific Dynamics tt, Sony 3000tt
Phono preamps, Goldnote PH-10, Creek OBH-15 mk2
Amplification, Odyssey Stratos Extreme
Interconnects, Wireworld

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219514)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 14 Jan 2021, 06:42 pm
I want to thank Bob for participating and especially for his help in converting the preamp over to active direct coupled.

Bob encountered a problem when he connected his phono preamp(s) to the LDR300x. When he dropped the needle on his turntable the LDR300x would either freeze or shut down. We've not had reports of anything similar ever happening to any of our earlier preamps so this is new. I told Bob I didn't have a simple fix from afar. We were able to determine that this has nothing to do with the active part of the LDR300x - it also happened when running passive with the active gain/buffer board literally removed from the unit. While I don't have a specific explanation it's highly likely that the phono preamp linestage signal ground is inducing sufficient ground current to cause the power internal to the LDR300x to fluctuate and trip the microcontroller. We will be looking into this here at our shop with our phono rig which we usually don't use during development or commissioning.

The 300 preamp has been here and is on it's way to the next person.

Let me preface this post. I'm not an Audiophile. I'm an enthusiast so no Fancy Pants verbiage, plots or charts.

I use a tone control tube preamp to drive my amp. When Morten started collecting names to try his LDR300x.V3 I thought it was a good time to see how a SS preamp would handle my Stratos Extreme. I signed up and away we go!

Morten has explained what happened with the preamp so no need to get into that.

With the 300 working again I hooked it up for my first listening session. I use a PC that plays music ripped to a hard drive. The PC utilizes an Asus Essence STX II sound card to send the analog signal.
I also use an Azur 851N streaming from various sources.

I spent about 7 hours over two evenings going through a collection of music.
Sound was different than my preamp of course but very good never the less.
I did find that bass was less than I am accustomed to. Mids were a bit more present.
Sound stage was wide and reasonably deep. The 300 presented itself very well.

I planned to listen to vinyl for the next session. That unfortunately did not happen.
I started the session with Brubeck's Take Five Lp cued up. As soon as the needle starting sending a signal the preamp froze. The volume control as well as the remote became unresponsive then the preamp shut down.
I checked to make sure everything was connected properly and tried the album again. Same thing.
I tried with my second tt only to have the same results.

Contacted Morten and he offered up a couple of suggestions for me to try. Sadly those did not rectify the issue.
After some e-mails and phone conversation with Morten there was not much that could be done. The 300 is working in active and passive modes when connected to my PC and the Azur.

I went back through this thread but didn't see any that stated they had listened to vinyl.
So I'm not sure if the stated issue was there prior to the vcap ricocheting around the enclosure.

I did spend a couple of hours listening in passive mode. I feel that active mode is a bit better.
If you are looking for a preamp on a budget it is worth checking it out.

I want to thank Morten for giving us an opportunity to try it out. I have to say that Morten is a brave man for turning me lose making repairs.
Also thanks to Audio Circle for creating a great forum that makes this possible.

Equipment used:
Speakers, Focal Aria 948
Digital Sources, PC, Azur 851N
Analog Sources, Specific Dynamics tt, Sony 3000tt
Phono preamps, Goldnote PH-10, Creek OBH-15 mk2
Amplification, Odyssey Stratos Extreme
Interconnects, Wireworld

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219514)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: sruffle on 16 Jan 2021, 10:22 pm
Hello all.  I had a pleasant surprise today when the pre-amp arrived earlier than expected.  I will be setting it up this weekend and will give a report within the next week.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 28 Jan 2021, 08:51 pm
Hi All,

After enduring multiple high-G shipments and physical modifications at my behest, I'm having sruffle send the tour unit back to the barn for a checkup and updating. I'll be sending it back out ASAP to krustykat who is up next.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) LarryD56 - ID
6) Bob2 - MI
7) sruffle - NJ (up next)

8') krustykat - NC
9) GentleBender - FL
10) Mollydog
11) Audiosaurusrex - MA

Standby List
1) ** open **
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: sruffle on 29 Jan 2021, 01:51 pm
I had the pleasure of auditioning the tour preamp over the last week.   The audition got off to a rough start as I had trouble with one of my RCA cables making a connection and was only getting sound out of one channel.  After diagnosing the problem on the phone with Morten, we were able to get the preamp running with no issue.  (Note - Morten was extremely helpful and patient)

To provide some background, my system consists of:

- MacMini (Roon/HQPlayer DSD upsampling)
- Holo Audio Spring DAC
- DIY Tortuga preamp
- Deware Zen 25thAnniversary SET amp
- DIY open baffle speakers

My current preamp uses the Tortuga kit and has upgraded components (silver wire, Furutech RCA jacks, linear power supply).   This preamp sounds absolutely terrific.  The primary drawback is that the display is an older one that only shows one number.  It works for me but makes me nervous that the wrong push of a button on the remote could send me down a difficult path of trying to recover my original settings.   

I wanted to see if the new preamp can sound as good as my current one and also wanted to test the active mode.  Unfortunately, I couldn't get the active mode to work so listened in passive.  General conclusions were that this version is close to my modded version.  The new display and remote control functionality are leagues ahead of the older versions that only show one window.  That alone is a major selling point. 

In terms of the sound, I made the following notes on my standard demo playlist:

- Bass comes through as clear and articulate.  There is no issue producing a very satisfying texture as well as going low
- Soundstage is what you would hope for. 
- Detail is excellent.  I usually listen to live Grateful Dead and Duke Ellington big band songs.  I was able to pick out every instrument without the detail feeling etched. 
- Tones are pure.  Vocals and guitar solos sound like you are in the room.

I would have liked to try the active mode but very much enjoyed listening to this.  I have tried running direct from DAC to amplifier with several DACs but the sound was never satisfactory.  I haven't used a ton of different preamps but compared to the ones I have used (modded Acurus RL-11 and RedWine Audio tube preamp, the Tortuga produces the most clarity and provides the biggest soundstage.  On the whole, I am very happy with the sound quality of the Tortuga preamp and do not have any itch to try another type of preamp.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 1 Feb 2021, 01:50 pm
Thank you for posting your review, for participating in the tour, and especially for taking the time to make the modifications we discussed.

Best,
Morten

I had the pleasure of auditioning the tour preamp over the last week.   The audition got off to a rough start as I had trouble with one of my RCA cables making a connection and was only getting sound out of one channel.  After diagnosing the problem on the phone with Morten, we were able to get the preamp running with no issue.  (Note - Morten was extremely helpful and patient)

To provide some background, my system consists of:

- MacMini (Roon/HQPlayer DSD upsampling)
- Holo Audio Spring DAC
- DIY Tortuga preamp
- Deware Zen 25thAnniversary SET amp
- DIY open baffle speakers

My current preamp uses the Tortuga kit and has upgraded components (silver wire, Furutech RCA jacks, linear power supply).   This preamp sounds absolutely terrific.  The primary drawback is that the display is an older one that only shows one number.  It works for me but makes me nervous that the wrong push of a button on the remote could send me down a difficult path of trying to recover my original settings.   

I wanted to see if the new preamp can sound as good as my current one and also wanted to test the active mode.  Unfortunately, I couldn't get the active mode to work so listened in passive.  General conclusions were that this version is close to my modded version.  The new display and remote control functionality are leagues ahead of the older versions that only show one window.  That alone is a major selling point. 

In terms of the sound, I made the following notes on my standard demo playlist:

- Bass comes through as clear and articulate.  There is no issue producing a very satisfying texture as well as going low
- Soundstage is what you would hope for. 
- Detail is excellent.  I usually listen to live Grateful Dead and Duke Ellington big band songs.  I was able to pick out every instrument without the detail feeling etched. 
- Tones are pure.  Vocals and guitar solos sound like you are in the room.

I would have liked to try the active mode but very much enjoyed listening to this.  I have tried running direct from DAC to amplifier with several DACs but the sound was never satisfactory.  I haven't used a ton of different preamps but compared to the ones I have used (modded Acurus RL-11 and RedWine Audio tube preamp, the Tortuga produces the most clarity and provides the biggest soundstage.  On the whole, I am very happy with the sound quality of the Tortuga preamp and do not have any itch to try another type of preamp.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 3 Feb 2021, 06:28 pm
Hi All,

The tour unit is back on the road after a pit stop. I decided the replace the gain/buffer board since the original got a good beating when one of the Copper Teflon coupling caps broke loose during a prior shipment and thrashed the board but good. I also updated the firmware in the V3 controller board which will have no impact on the sonics but cleans up a couple of minor bugs.

Just a reminder that the preamp is configured by default as an active preamp set at unity gain (meaning no gain/amplification). I popped in a TL072 JFET op amp which replaces the original LME49720 which we've determined was marginally stable at unity gain.

Also, if you're curious don't hesitate to open up the preamp to swap the discrete attenuator board for the LDR attenuator board. You can also move the jumpers JPL and JPR from the "A" (active) position to the "P" (passive) position if you're curious to hear the preamp in passive mode. This bypasses the gain/buffer board completely.

The preamp in now on its way to krustykat in North Carolina.

Enjoy and stay safe!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Bob2 on 3 Feb 2021, 07:29 pm
Morten. did you try it out with a TT?
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 3 Feb 2021, 07:39 pm
Morten. did you try it out with a TT?

No specifically with the tour unit but am setting up a turntable in our shop to test generally. Waiting on some cables and will have that up and running soon. We have a modest phono preamp that can handle both MM and MC cartridges. Our TT currently has a MC.

For those reading this, the question relates to Bob2's experience running his turntable into the LDR300x and seeing the LDR300x turn off and/or freeze the moment the needle hit the vinyl. My guess is that's a ground loop problem but so far it's just a guess. Will report findings once we have our rig up and running.

Our current source is a Schitt Yggdrasil DAC which I really like. 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Hikmer on 5 Feb 2021, 03:49 am
I'm running a Manley Chinook into the LDR300x without any issue of needle drop problems.  Sounds amazing. 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: krustykat on 9 Feb 2021, 03:42 pm
The LDR300x.v3 arrived this weekend and I had a chance to try it for a bit on Sun and Monday.  I'm using a VPI Classic w/ a Transfiguration Phoenix MC cartridge through a K&K Maxxed-Out phono preamp for my analog source and a Innuos Zenith MK3 to a Border Patrol DAC for my digital.  Output to a Pass XA30.8 amp and Selah Tempesta Extreme speakers.

The timing was fortuitous as my normal preamp developed a slight problem that required me to send it in for repair.  The appearance of the LDR300x.v3 is very subdued - it eschews bling for an appearance that just blends into the background.  The bamboo front on my LDR3.v25is a bit more stylish, which unfortunately is not available anymore.  The apple remote is a nice touch as they are easily obtainable just in case your dog decides to chew on it. 

My initial tests with the turntable showed none of the problems earlier reported with crashing on needle drops.  The user interface is well laid out and very intuitive, much easier to use than the old non OLED interface on the LDR3.v25. The sound is clear, bass extension is tight and deep.   Treble extension is very good, with only the slightest touch of grain on some vocals.  Soundstaging is very wide too, it's not as deep front to back as I've heard, but it is still very good.  I do wonder if a good linear power supply might help, but unfortunately I don't have one of the right voltage to test.  In active mode, the gain is too low for me, I had to go up to 75 (out of 100) or higher to achieve my normal listening volume and it never pushed my amp out of class A mode.   Morten, is this adjustable?
 
I'll be listening more over the coming week and will post more detailed impressions, but I can say that my quibbles are minor and I am quite impressed by the quality of this unit!  It appears to be a steal for the price that Morten is asking for it!  I'll be testing it in passive mode and also comparing directly against my LDR3.v25.   Stay Tuned.
  :popcorn:
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 9 Feb 2021, 11:29 pm
In active mode, the gain is too low for me, I had to go up to 75 (out of 100) or higher to achieve my normal listening volume and it never pushed my amp out of class A mode.   Morten, is this adjustable?

Interesting comment.

First, the active gain in the LDR300x is set at unity (1x) meaning no amplification (or a gain of 1.0). This is deliberate and is the default gain setting. What does that mean? It means the input stage of the active board isn't trying to increase the voltage of the incoming signal (i.e. it's not amplifying it to make it louder). It's simply acting as a unity gain input buffer (an active impedance fire wall). This is no different than running the preamp in passive mode from a volume standpoint. However, the active board also has an active output JFET stage which acts as a current amplifier. A current amplifier boosts the available power of the audio signal without making it louder. This translates into better overall dynamics of the audio signal (better punch, slam, pluck etc.). Do you need that? Depends on your source components (which should be more than capable of delivering that power without having to lean on an active preamp, but many are not).


Secondly, let's examine the volume setting. You note that you had to go up to 75 out of 100...or higher. That's entirely expected and in keeping with normal volume settings when operating the LDR300x. I typically run my system at around 75-90. For me, that's "normal" when running with a unity gain preamp (both active or passive).

Yes, you can increase the actual gain. You can replace the plug-in gain modules with +6 or +12 dB gain modules which are resistor pairs that increase the gain of the input op amp. But to what end? What's the point of doing that?  Let's say you install +12 dB gain modules. Now you can run the volume setting at 20 steps lower (each attenuation step being ~0.6 dB). But what have you accomplished? You will have punched up the potential volume by +12db only to crank it down again by 12 dB to achieve the same effective loudness.

In my view, the only justification for boosting the actual gain of the LDR300x (or any preamp) is if you're running out of volume control headroom. Which means you just can't get the system to play loud enough.

So what if you run the unity gain LDR300x at 75, or 85 or 90 (out of 100) - active or passive. Is it loud enough or not? If it's not loud enough, add some gain. If it's loud enough, carry on.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: MttBsh on 10 Feb 2021, 12:00 am
I run my Tortuga passive through a DAC King Stereo Maraschino (STM) Amplifier. I leave the STM volume knob turned all the way up and adjust the volume on the Tortuga using its Apple remote. 20-25 is normal listening volume, 35 is loud and 50 shakes the windows. Having the STM on full volume sounds best to me as opposed to lowering it and running the Tortuga at higher volume.
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: krustykat on 10 Feb 2021, 12:37 am
Thanks for the reply Morten.  I'd say that I probably would never push the volume past 100 as it is configured now, but it does feel odd to turn it so high as I'm probably used to having a preamp with gain.  I know my amp can handle more but probably only the electronics or my ears would be damaged at those levels anyway.  Its good to know that it can be changed if necessary.   I'll be testing in passive shortly, which I suspect will confirm your assessment of the dynamics. 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: goofytwoshoes on 10 Feb 2021, 01:49 am

 
  I'll be testing it in passive mode and also comparing directly against my LDR3.v25.   Stay Tuned.
  :popcorn:

My LDR3.v25 is in pieces at the moment as I prepare to switch to the ePot.V3 and OLED display.  I'm really looking forward to your thoughts. 
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 15 Feb 2021, 08:29 pm
If Mollydog sees this post or anyone knows how to reach Mollydog, please email me Mollydog's email address to morten@tortugaaudio.com.

Mollydog has signed up for the preamp tour but I don't have his contact info and he can't be reached via PM.

Thanks,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: krustykat on 15 Feb 2021, 08:41 pm
So my week with the LDR300x.v3 has come to an end.  I was able to test it with both the Resistor and LDR volume controls and also tried it in Active and Passive modes.  Additionally I was able to compare it to my LDR3.V25 w/ OLED Display, which was updated from the older V20 version.

Testing the LDR300x.V3 in Active vs. Passive mode showed obvious differences.  In active mode, the soundstage was widest and also had more depth.  Decays lasted longer, adding to the perception of realism.  Dynamics were the most obvious change, much more powerful and quicker than in the passive mode.  Initially, I was quite unimpressed by the passive mode, but then I remembered that I had not run the impedance calibration against my system.    After calibration in passive mode I felt that the sound was greatly improved, but strong vocals or loud orchestral passages seemed to be a bit more compressed and veiled compared to active.   

Truthfully I could not discern too much difference in sound quality between my LDR3.V25 and the LDR300x.V3 in passive mode.  That makes me happy, as I'm going to need to use the LDR3.v25 in my main system while my main preamp is out of the system for repair.   The height of the LDR300x.v3  is about 2/3 of the LDR3.v25, otherwise they are very similar in size.  I/O for the two preamps is very similar, with the LDR3.v25 having an additional 12v trigger.  The USB port for updates is a micro USB vs. the relatively obscure USB A to USB A cable the LDR3.v25 uses.  The LDR300x.v3 uses pin connectors to tie the boards together, compared to the silver wiring between boards in the LDR3.v25.  I prefer the pin connectors on the LDR300x.v3 as it makes it easier to work on the unit if necessary.   And if I recall correctly, the LDR300x.v3 is also less expensive than the LDR3.v20 was.

Testing the LDR300x.v3 with the resistor based volume control was interesting.  It definitely did not have the frequency extension of the LDR.  Listening to Alison Krauss' and Robert Plant's "Polly Come Home" didn't let the very lowest bass frequencies (the ones you can feel) come through.  Likewise the highest frequencies were slightly damped, but as a plus, the very slight glare that I experienced with the LDRs did not exist.  Some people may like this sound more, I would definitely recommend trying both if you purchase this preamp. 

I did not try the amp in passive/resistor mode and can't comment on that configuration.

I do truly feel that the Tortuga LDR 300x.v3 delivers well above it's price point and would probably suit many audiophile systems.   Thanks Morten for letting your new child loose on the community.  Its nice to see how you continually work to upgrade and make your products more affordable!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220895)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220896)
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 22 Feb 2021, 09:21 pm
Hi All,

The tour is almost over with one more participant to go. Someone named Mollydog had also asked to participate but I don't think I received their contact info and their PM is blocked. So it goes.

1) uncola - HI
2) MttBsh - WA
3) Delta77 - CA
4) Emiel - AZ
5) LarryD56 - ID
6) Bob2 - MI
7) sruffle - NJ (up next)
8') krustykat - NC
9) GentleBender - FL

10) Audiosaurusrex - MA
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Audiosaurusrex on 3 Mar 2021, 02:43 pm
Gentle sent out the preamp yesterday and I should receive it on Friday keep you all posted!
More manufacturers should be this courteous and willing to share their products.
Thanks Morten!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: tortugaranger on 3 Mar 2021, 02:55 pm
Gentle sent out the preamp yesterday and I should receive it on Friday keep you all posted!
More manufacturers should be this courteous and willing to share their products.
Thanks Morten!

Thanks for the update.
The reason most do not do this is the risk of a tour participant deciding to make it their life's purpose to tear down a particular product, technology and/or manufacturer. Basically the worst aspects of online social media and trollish behavior.
Offering tours involve a leap of faith and the possibility of being attacked.
I take some comfort from the fact that AudioCircle is one of the more civilized audio forums.
Enjoy the preamp. Let me know if you run into any problems. These tour units get a good workout and multiple shippings can shake things apart.

Cheers,
Morten
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Audiosaurusrex on 4 Mar 2021, 09:01 pm
The Turtle has landed  :D

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221559)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221560)

Starting out with Royal Scam on my Modwright Pioneer LX500 this is going to be good!!
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: uncola on 4 Mar 2021, 09:03 pm
Nice looking spatials!  they match your rack perfectly.. almost as if intentionally lol
Title: Re: LDR300x.V3 Preamp Tour
Post by: Audiosaurusrex on 4 Mar 2021, 11:31 pm
Nice looking spatials!  they match your rack perfectly.. almost as if intentionally lol
Thanks Uncola, it’s great when it works out like that. Three great American Companies, Tortuga, Spatial and Timbernation!