AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: rustydoglim on 12 Jun 2019, 09:12 am
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John Ransley strikes again with a very detailed MCX review. His readers know he really spent a lot of time on his review and therefore his reviews are followed outside of New Zealand.
https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2/nuprime-x-mcx-2-stereo-power-amplifier/
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Really nice, as always. Still, I'll insist that it wouldn't hurt to read such glowing reviews from someone that is not going to directly benefit from selling the thing he just praised. Would give it a more objective weight to it.
Rafa.
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Really nice, as always. Still, I'll insist that it wouldn't hurt to read such glowing reviews from someone that is not going to directly benefit from selling the thing he just praised. Would give it a more objective weight to it.
Rafa.
I agree completely with this.
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quote author=RafaPolit link=topic=164280.msg1746732#msg1746732 date=1560456106]
Really nice, as always. Still, I'll insist that it wouldn't hurt to read such glowing reviews from someone that is not going to directly benefit from selling the thing he just praised. Would give it a more objective weight to it.
Rafa.
[/quote]
If you have been following John's reviews, then you will get an accurate picture of what he is trying to tell you. Compare what he has written for ST-10, ST-10M, Evolution One, and then MCX. That's where you get a relative picture. Since there are now quite a few trusted reviews from users and even professional reviews, you can compare if John's review of Evo One is on the mark. If he has been providing good information in the past, there is a very high chance he is just continuing his good work on MCX. And the next one. His long time readers follow his reviews. We prominently featured him on our website and social media post because he can tell a better story about our product then us.
Sure, you are skeptical because he is a dealer. But spend time following his reviews. No rush to buy, just keep reading his old reviews.
A bias reviewer will quickly discredit himself because after reading more than a few reviews, you get the picture that he is selling the latest stuff.
We should consider all reviews biased - if it is not biased with personal preference, experience, then it is biased with financial motivation.
I do want to caution that MCX is specifically designed for people who want to use it for movies as much as music, and your music preference is more diverse, a mix of rock, pop, newage, classical, jazz, ...
Some people will find MCX too flavourful over ST-10. That's why we don't actively promote MCX series in this forum, where most people want a system for music listening.
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Hi Rafa,
I wrote something for you - it's a bit to long for the forum so we've posted it as a blog on our site. https://totallywired.nz/2019/06/20/skin-in-the-game/
Look forward to your reply and happy to answer any questions - John at Totally Wired.
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X came from the philosophy of X Games - extreme, edgy. There are not designed for audiophiles who are mostly looking for purity, clean, neutral, may be a little warmer, etc - ST-10, STA-9, Evo Amp, IDA-16 ....
If you listen to rock & roll and watch a lot of movies using your audio system, then MCX is something you should consider.
Funny thing is, I received feedback from an European distributor that two of his customers chose ST-10 and STA-9 over MCX because of their music preference. Is there anything wrong with MCX?
I told him that's exactly the kind of respond we should expect.
When we introduce a new model, we have a certain set of target customers and sound characteristic in mind. Many other brands tell you they have good, better and best series. We prefer to serve you many difference dishes to whet your appetite.
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Hi Rafa,
I wrote something for you - it's a bit to long for the forum so we've posted it as a blog on our site. https://totallywired.nz/2019/06/20/skin-in-the-game/
Look forward to your reply and happy to answer any questions - John at Totally Wired.
I really appreciate this "window" into your process and the reasoning behind your choices.
It opens up a full array of discussion topics, which are really interesting to me! Some from technical perspectives, others from marketing and sales scenarios.
One is specially interesting to me, one which I have heard others reviewers express. The take of this very, very famous reviewer, when confronted by the question about never having "negative" reviews was: "it takes so much effort and time to write a review, that I am not going to review something that I think is not worth it or that I am not interested in enough to listen to for extended periods of time...".
You mention a similar path, and also state that you are an owner even more so than a seller. I think you could also make the point that you only sell that which you would feel confortable backing up with your praise, and that is also probably true.
You go a step further and comment that negative reviews from you have spawned rage amongst both manufacturers and owners alike.
So... if I apply math logic to this: we can mostly know, from all said above, that there's probably never going to be negative reviews. Our only way to differentiate the good from the bad will be the trust we place in particular reviewers and, using math logic, by the amount of favorable reviews. The other route is also true: lack of favorable reviews, could be inferred as a not-so-good product that most reviewers have decided not to spend their time with.
So. I'm not sure my point is coming through, but by words used by yourself, i still think that having more reviews would benefit any product.
I am not that naive to not know this is difficult and that there are heavy interests involved here from large and powerful companies, which usually get the focus and the buzz.
I apologize for suggesting that your review was not an objective one just because you are selling the models reviewed. I do believe one can sell something, even make good money out of it, and still be objective. I judged your intent without knowing you or having heard the product, so I sincerely apologize. I do think, nonetheless, that you picked up the "essence" of my "doubt" as the reasonable doubt this seller/reviewer condition may arise, and I thank you for making a gentleman reply rather than dismissing my concern as prejudice (which in hindsight it was!).
Nice read, enlightening in many ways, and opens up a very interesting scope of areas to talk about.
Best regards,
Rafa.
Ps. One interesting point you mentioned is that the line has picked little interest in this forum. Jason has asked this group not to discuss about the brand or ask too many questions, as they belong on different forums or the newly NuPrime specific forum. I have voiced that this should be a more open and discussion-oriented place where merits of these products and those of the competition are contrasted. That would yield a lot of talk, and create a lot of people commenting. As is, it remains more informative and a place where questions are asked, but not true discussion. I would love to have that here, but I lost that battle long ago.
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Hi Rafa,
I hope you don't give up. This forum needs people like you who are passionate, knowledgeable and with no hidden agendas. I think Jason is over stretched and are getting involved in too many fronts, that's why he's trying to limit the flow of vast information if it's allowed to "free for all". However, I am sure he could allow members to contribute and comment on topics that are indirectly related to Nuprime products. I have Harbeth speakers and their forum are so "tightly" guarded by senior members. If you speak of amplifiers or cables or something not related to their speakers, you'll be shot down, literally.
So, please continue to write and hopefully here we can in CT inculcate a good relationship and culture towards better understanding and enjoyment of these products.
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sometime, this is a hobby..
I manage two stack of Nuprime product and I'm happy overall .. sure if you want to move forward about price 'and sound quality' you need to go away ...but indeed you cannot evaluate solely in forum
try it and breath it!! this is Nuprime ..
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Hi Rafa,
Again you raise some excellent points. I appreciate the constructive path you take and I hope this enables me to write better reviews in the future that can better align with the perspectives of end users rather than just my own.
I don’t think there are many 'bad' products out there - I can find some quality in just about anything I listen to, so I guess we are looking for something that improves on our existing benchmarks over a broad range. The internet has broken down a lot of barriers so 'we' can be enthusiasts, resellers, reviewers or even manufacturers and there should be room for all voices to be heard.
The idea of 'NuPrime-X’ is to expand the pool of interest - the traditional audiophile might look at the extreme power ratings and comparatively low cost with cynicism but there are others that will think 'wow' and I think Jason would like to tap into this. And in this regard, if anyone cares to connect one of the MCX variants to their existing AVR, I think they will be bowled over.
For yourself and other members of the forum the benchmark is a lot higher and with the writing on the MCX I’m trying to explore what they offer, especially given something like the ST-10 is technically better at a similar price. For yourself as an ST10 owner, the question might be would the MCX-1 monos be a viable alternative to either the ST10Ms or even Evolution Ones.
They are 3 quite startlingly different amplifiers despite the shared technology and yet each has a place. We could draw the analogy between two different speaker models from a single designer - one might be a small but very high quality stand or shelf mount like your Totems. The other might be a full sized floor stander that will obviously deliver much greater bass but perhaps lack precision. It gets really hard to say which is better.
The question that I think Jason is grappling with is how do we get the word out in such a saturated market? Not just about NuPrime but what we personally get out of both music and our hifi systems. So I agree with you that it would be better to have a more wide ranging scope within this particular circle and I suspect that by bringing the MCX range into this, we are making a little progress.
I’m also hoping someone out there has a set of MCX-1s right now that they are writing about. It’s not like there are many 750 watt amplifiers that you can buy a pair of for around US$2600 and given what I’ve found with the MCX-2 any reviewer or end user could really enjoy what they do.
Now if there were just a way to get a set to Rafa for a month or two…
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I have to say John's review was the best I ever read (thoroughly) in my practical experience of 30 years in this crazy ass hobby.
That being said, I like the intelligent response from Rafa, very well stated, in all, one of the better audio forum threads for a change, civil, sensible and informative.
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As a consumer, it is still hard for me to trust reviews by industry participants or reviews paid for by the manufacturer.
My mch-k38 is one good example and my simaudio mind2 is another.
Also being kinda steered away from using roon would be another. I recently started using it and I find it absolutely a wonderful way to access my music and stream tidal.
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This discussion has turned interesting toward the high end audio business side that we normally don't talk about.
By the way, you guys feel free to discuss MCX, I only stated that we try to stay away from comparing MCX with other NuPrime products because that just cause confusion. If you are planning to buy a music system, don't consider MCX, there are already many models in the Nuprime products to choose from. If you spend 50% of the time watch movies versus listening to music, then you might consider MCX.
As the high end audio development becomes more matured, there are much less "bad" products because:
1. obviously after decades of improvment, bad sounding products are not going to survive.
2. Most brands use OEM (original equipment manufacturing) and ODM (original design manufacturer). They provide the industrial design and sound tuning preferene, parts and technology selections (it is like ordering a la carte from a restaurant menu, I will talk about "buffet" next). The OEM/ODM does the work. Often more than 1 partners are invovled. So, how can you have bad products when many people are sharing the same core components - Class D amp module is a good example.
3. Oh, the buffet. We see that a lot in mass market speakers, headphones and earphones. Pick and choose what you like, change the logo and launch.
We are pretty unique in this industry where our factory does OEM/ODM work for other brands and also have our own brand. This business model is not unique to high end audio, you will find this model across any industry, food and beverage, costmetic, anything.
The current state of high end audio has a lot less "snake oil" (still exist) as consumers either wise up or don't buy into it. So this is the best time to get into this hobby where a good beginner system cost less than $2000 that you can enjoy for years (compare to a drawer full of old gadgets and smartphones that cost much more). High end audio today gives you better ROE (return on enjoyment) than many other hobbies (travel, food, gaming).
What it comes down to is how much premium you are willing to pay for design, build quality, brand and sound characteristic. May be you like a particular sound from a brand and that brand just cost a lot more. NuPrime product road map for the next few years will expand in several directions: more design choices (such as the addition of AMG series), more portabl and personal products, more streaming integration, and even a few select lifestyle products in partnership with other brands. What we will not deviate is the "Best value for money" mission.
Because of the internet, the way people shop for a high end system have changed. Dealers who are able to make the adjustment manage to survive, many others simply went out of business. It is a depressing situation where there are very few physical stores.
So how does one shop for a system ? READ as much as you can. Ask people for opinions. WORD OF MOUTH is the best way to find out about a brand and products. People often asked me why there are no magazine review of this and that products.
Let me tell you the reality - MONEY.
1) A magazine has to cater to many manufacturers and with so many brands and products out there, we will be lucky if we can get 2 reviews per year. 2) we are not a big advertiser! We seldom do show. That's why our price is reasonable. So, don't think that a product that has no magazine review is bad, we can only pick one, and typically we pick the flagship model.
If you are new to this, start with something within your budget and most online dealers will allow you to do in-home trial. When people buy a car or a mobile phone, do they go test drive many brands and models, most don't. You can pretty much narrow down to 2 or 3 models from different brands. We often found out from new customers (never heard about NuPrime before) that after they did their exhausive search, they simply ended up with NuPrime and don't bother to try other brands.
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John Ransley strikes again with a very detailed MCX review. His readers know he really spent a lot of time on his review and therefore his reviews are followed outside of New Zealand.
https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2/nuprime-x-mcx-2-stereo-power-amplifier/
Since its OK now to comment on the MCX, here's my opinion. I was an early adopted and purchased the MCX-2 when it first came out. Have been living with it since. I also own/owned the IDA-8, STA-9, ST-10 so I have some confidence with comparisons with these.
First some history. I was enamored over the IDA-8. The bang for the buck was sky high and havent been impressed like that since the NAD 3020. But the IDA-8 lacked dynamics and bass for me. Just ran out of power. Then I tried the ST-10, which I found was not very forgiving. Very well mastered classical recordings sounded wonderful and transparent, but for the typical hotly mastered pop music, it was a bit harsh. Not the fault of the ST-10, but not a daily amp. STA-9 was way too candy colored for me. So when the MCX series came out, I read that it had the same class-A discrete front end as the IDA-8, and lots more power, I went for it.
The sound is very much as Ransley describes. It is like the sound of the IDA-8 on steroids. Its got the class A front end warmth of the IDA-8, which is very pleasing. It is just enough to smooth out the harshness of pop music, but transparent enough for classical music. The bass markedly improved and dynamics are excellent, at least through regular dynamic driver speakers. (I do not know how well it handles high current loving speakers like magnepan or low impedance like electrostatics. Power/current doesnt double into lower impedances like class-A amps)
So I do think that it is a bit of a disservice to nuprime fans not to have this considered for straight 2 channel music only. For me its Nuprime's goldilocks amp.
As to the build - the internals look to me the same quality as STA-9, IDA-8, ST-10. The chassis and connectors arent quite as high end as the ST-10. More along the STA-9 level. But that is minor. The connectors dont affect the sound, The only quibble I have found so far is that the input selector switch (unbalanced/balanced) doesnt isolate the other input. e.g. if you choose balanced input, the unbalanced is still connected in line and not isolated from the input. So you cant use that switch to select between 2 inputs, you really need to run only 1 or the other.
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This is spot on.
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Hello,
Sorry for my bad language level, I want to come to you to help me choose my future nuprime amplifier.
For use 60% hifi and 40% hometheater, for my frontal scene is it better a mxc-2 + sta9 for the central or 3x sta9 for LCR?
I am looking for dynamics, precision, and musicality?
my loudspeaker sound Focal 826vw serie 30th anniversary. (5.2 system)
thank you
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Do you already own some of the models or still in the planning stage?
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Hello,
Sorry for my bad language level, I want to come to you to help me choose my future nuprime amplifier.
For use 60% hifi and 40% hometheater, for my frontal scene is it better a mxc-2 + sta9 for the central or 3x sta9 for LCR?
I am looking for dynamics, precision, and musicality?
my loudspeaker sound Focal 826vw serie 30th anniversary. (5.2 system)
thank you
If you're using the cc800 as the center speaker, it would be best to keep the LCR amps the same. This would give much better results with front panning in movies. Since there is a fair amount of use in Home Theater and you've mentioned Dynamics as one of the criteria, the MCX may suit better than the STA-9. If you're using subs to fill the bottom end, the MCX-4 should be enough for your mains and center, have still have a channel to spare. Otherwise for even greater dynamics, you could go with 1 MCX-2 and 1 MCX-3, using the 2 lower power channels on the MCX-3 for your rears/surround.
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Good evening,
yes my central is a cc800w, my subwoofer are 2x svs sb3000, the choice of mx2 + mcx3 is good but does not fit in my wallet.
For consistency, 3x mono sta9 on LCRs must be fine, but is this dynamic enough?
(I had beforehand a marantz pm14s1 on my 826w, the nuprime will replace it)
is the mcx2 as good as the mono sta9, in stereo? do the voices have their bodies?
Can be wrong, I told myself if the installation is good in stereo, necessarily it will be in homecinema ?!
thanks to you two
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Jye, I think he only needs 3 channels. In that case MCX-3 will do.
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What are you using for a pre amp?
I found when I used my avr's as a pre-amp it was great for movies and only adequate for music.
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as a preamplifier I use an Arcam avr390 with diraclive, music remains the priority in my installation. Thank
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One of the receivers I tried was a anthem mr1120 and it did not hold a candle to what my evolution dac does as a pre amp.
I have no experience with arcam avrs but every avr I tried as a dac / preamp for critical two channel listening..... the avr was the weak link in my system.
But if you ever take the dedicated dac/preamp route make sure it has ht bypass (if you plan to integrate it into your surround system)
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thank you, I had before the hd dac1 marantz with pm14s1, the couple was my taste less good, the avr arcam with a power block on it.
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Given your preference of the Arcam over the Marantz, and for the convenience of trigger inputs, go for the MCX-3. It should provide you with the heightened dynamics and a larger soundfield you're missing out with just the Arcam alone.
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Hello,
thank you, the mcx3 has done more for the rear tracks, the one that has the same power supply as the mcx2 but divided on 3 channels so less watts on the front. 180 watts under 8ohms against 550 watts with the mcx2, the difference is it audible?
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At normal listening volumes, the difference will be minimal. But if you have the luxury of listening at loud volumes, the more powerful amplifier will tend to keep the dynamics and composure against the lesser powered sibling.
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How well will a MCX-2 drive a pair of Magnepan MMGs ? The wattage seems more than adequate, but is current and damping sufficient ? Anyone's experience would be appreciated. Thanks
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Hi everyone,
I wanted to introduce myself. I just placed an order for MCX-2, MCX-3 and MCX-4 to upgrade my 5.1.4 home theater setup. I was struggling between Emotiva and MCX, two very different “philosophy”. On the Emotiva side, I was considering XPA-DR3 + XPA-7. I am very excited and will post my experience with these MCX amps. I am fairly new to higher end audio/home theater and have a lot to learn so I might be asking a lot of stupid questions.
Alex
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How well will a MCX-2 drive a pair of Magnepan MMGs ? The wattage seems more than adequate, but is current and damping sufficient ? Anyone's experience would be appreciated. Thanks
The answer is Very Well indeed.
The best NuPRIME amps for Maggies are:
1) AMG STA pair bridged to Mono
2) The ST-10M pair
3) The MCX-1 pair, or MCX-2
I have customers and clients who are very happy with these pairings.
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Hi everyone,
I wanted to introduce myself. I just placed an order for MCX-2, MCX-3 and MCX-4 to upgrade my 5.1.4 home theater setup. I was struggling between Emotiva and MCX, two very different “philosophy”. On the Emotiva side, I was considering XPA-DR3 + XPA-7. I am very excited and will post my experience with these MCX amps. I am fairly new to higher end audio/home theater and have a lot to learn so I might be asking a lot of stupid questions.
Alex
Congratulations! and WELCOME
I assume you intend to do the following:
MCX-2 for L&R Mains
MCX-3 Center/and L&R Surrounds
MCX-4 Rear Surrounds and Atmos
Is that the plan?
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Almost. MCX-4 will drive the 4 Atmos speakers. It shipped on Sunday from Taiwan via FedEx and it just left Anchorage on their way here to be mated with Marantz AV7705 Pre Amp. By this weekend, I should have time to set up and enjoy.
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Here are some pictures of my setup. I had about 3 weeks to enjoy and it’s been really great for both music and movies.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220259)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220260)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220261)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220262)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220263)
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Here are some pictures of my setup. I had about 3 weeks to enjoy and it’s been really great for both music and movies.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220259)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220260)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220261)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220262)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220263)
Nice setup. What marantz is that?
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Finally got the approval from my wifey to upgrade the system! I got the Bowers & Wilkins 702 S2 in Piano Black and it sounds & looks fantastic.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232930)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232932)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232935)