AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 6 Feb 2021, 08:09 pm
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Hi Folks,
So I would like some opinions about what Bryston should consider to manufacture for its next product.
Give me your top three (3) and the reasons why.
Thanks in advance.
james
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...smaller amps. the BAX option also available for the A-models. to make Bryston affordable.
al.
and hey...great topic, btw :thumb:
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An all-in-one music server. Four boxes (server, DAC, BOT, external storage) is too cumbersome. There are too many boxes, power cords, and cables. I find it thoroughly confusing. :scratch:
At least get it down to two boxes. One box for loading CDs, storage, and playback. Second box for DAC for those who want to experiment or have DACs in their integrated amp.
Good reason--I would buy one of those but not what you make now. I think others would buy one too. You would broaden your market. Many people want simpler solutions. Music should be fun and easy, not a challenge.
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James,
would it be possible to have a Bryston integrated amp with an implemented BAX to go with Bryston's active speakers????
al.
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Hi James,
1 - Reboot the 2B. I'm certain the 2.5B is excellent, but the appearance and name have kept me from being really interested. From the top view, it should have the same footprint as the 3B, but it should retain its 2 rack space height. The heat sinks should extend all the way down its sides. Get rid of that notch in the cabinet. and call it a 2B.
2 - A new integrated amp that will fill the bill for a great quality, highly functional, and modestly powered solution. This will appeal to people looking for a second system, office, cottage type needs. People that don't want separates or might be looking to downgrade from separates. This int amp needs more features than the B135, but doesn't need to be as powerful. Maybe something like a B80. It needs tone controls, tape loop, switched power outlet, etc. You saw my post where I compared the features of several int amps. Keep digital stuff out of this unit so it won't depreciate much as the digital tech changes.
3 - I would celebrate 50 years by offering VU meters in your amps. I believe your initial 3B had them, so why not?. I know many will disagree with me, but with sound quality not really something to debate much anymore, features and appearance are where you need to focus now.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209672)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209673)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220266)
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1 - Reboot the 2B.
I second this request. 2B-LP Pro really does need a cubed update, retaining its slim size factor :thumb:
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1) BHA-2 - Maybe throw in some tech from the cubed series and fix the gain issues where you could have more volume play with the knob on all kinds of headphones...Furthermore, you could do a GS-X Mk2 type of thing with the BHA-2. The BHA-1 had great headphone amplification, but the preamp wasn't as good as the rest of the dedicated Bryston preamps. Maybe stepped control for preamps and remote control? Having an analog-only TOTL headphone amp and preamp in one box would be perfect. That's a product worth keeping for years/decade(s).
(I still use headphones occasionally nowadays, but it's been dramatically reduced so they are mostly for nights. I actually don't know how the headphone market looks right now in terms of both the headphone and amplification. The Audeze is the only one from the high-end headphone collection that I use now. Most of the time its the wireless earbuds and headphones))
2) Roon Core on BDP players - Either on the BDP-3 or a newer beefier processor model. Maybe we can get MPD type SQ from Roon this way? Also, an updated interface for Manic Moose / MPD would also be great.
3) As others have said, maybe something on the smaller, integrated side. For example, with my Amphion One15, I went with Amphion's Amp100, but the thought did go through my head that if there was something that was comparable to it from Bryston, I'd have preferred to stick with Bryston.
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One box.
300wpc/500wpc 4ohm
DAC/Streamer
one analog input for HT bypass
remote
roon endpoint
One box with big power, HT bypass.
I only stream (though would want to be able to hook up a network drive), and use a HT bypass. That's it. But I want big, clean power, and a great DAC.
(basically NAD M33, but higher end, roon endpoint, and a HT bypass function).
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Hi James,
For me the following are my top three products for Bryston:
1- A replacement for legendary SP3 processor :green: with the latest surround sound formats with an excellent streamer and updated DAC section for 2 or multi-channel audio..
There is nothing on the market today that is as good as SP3 for either 2 channel or multi channel audio quality and keep the analog inputs.
2- Single channel amp, good for 300 watts - 8 ohms or 500 watts - 4 ohms
This would supplement bi-amping of speakers and when you need only one channel of amplification, but try to keep it compact in size.
3) - A replacement for BDA-3 :green:, but consider R-2R ladder DAC configuration
There a only a few R-2R ladder DACs that are truly amazing for decoding digital signals and gives us I²S inputs, but maintain the current inputs as well.
Luigi
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A Roon Core would be on my wishlist.
A better specc’ed internal DAC for the BP-17^3.
I’m sure I will come up with something else to suggest, these are just my immediate thoughts...thanks for asking!
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Hi James,
1) A new and innovative ribbon type headphone. Carbon fibre for low weight. Matched to a new BHA that can act as either a) an integrated amp, b) preamp or c) headphone amp. I believe Bryston/Axiom have the resources and pedigree to be the leader in this market.
2) Internal DAC upgrade options. Because DACs need upgrading and in my opinion are becoming a hifi commodity. (read: product differentiation without value added for most)
3) I don't have a decent third idea. However, I would like to say that Bryston should avoid falling into the trap of becoming beholden to a third party software company. Once such a company has a dominant position in the hifi arena they will start to dictate terms that will impact audio quality not unlike what Apple did to music. It's what I would do. Remember Steve Jobs made a ton of cash off iTunes but still had a turntable at home. Speaks volumes.
Cheers and thanks for allowing us to present our opinions.
Richard
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James I would have said the BR20 however that’s completed. I would say a CD/BDP/BDA3 in one box. Weather we like it or not people are wanting less boxes and less cables and will pay a bit more for a 2/1 and 3/1 boxes.
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James I would have said the BR20 however that’s completed. I would say a CD/BDP/BDA3 in one box. Weather we like it or not people are wanting less boxes and less cables and will pay a bit more for a 2/1 and 3/1 boxes.
This is what I said. I also think one box is less expensive than three boxes with separate chassis and power supplies. One box is definitely less expensive when you factor in fewer power cords and interconnects.
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James I would have said the BR20 however that’s completed. I would say a CD/BDP/BDA3 in one box. Weather we like it or not people are wanting less boxes and less cables and will pay a bit more for a 2/1 and 3/1 boxes.
I would agree that for many, fewer boxes are better. However, I think digital and analog should be kept separate. Think ahead 10-20 years from now. I think the BR20 will be more outdated than a BP25.
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[quote author=fbny71
A better specc’ed internal DAC for the BP-17^3.
...good point, fbny! the BP 17³ deserves a more multi functional dac card. a usb input is very important for many users these days. and it just doesn't make sense that a preamp like the 17³ with a pricetag of a few thousand is still without this feature if you ask me. however, i love my 17³ - not only for the xlr-biamp feature... :thumb:
al.
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1: Model JT Signature
w/ BAX-2 Signature.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d6806d4d4a70b00015c75b4/1588184123854-TB8WQNTYT3ZOGCTPOEEB/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kHedq5Hzta4-J2xQfjCiEB8UqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcCcZucnWjTdNk39upAH7elAPKn05vxnKDyav3LBoAKAtL4LEVMQvhz7okrUtXJ_U-/A5+WEB+DIMENSIONS+NEG.JPG?format=750w)
2: Buc-2 (incl: Toslink Optical Audio.)
w/ MPS-3
(https://img.stereo.ru/images/savvov/1415778675-IMG_1504.jpg)
3: 4B3 (incl: VU meter)
(https://www.on-mag.fr/images/stories/2018/04/AUDIO_RESEARCH_REF160M_vumetre.jpg)
"I would celebrate 50 years by offering VU meters in your amps." GrooveControl
^^^
+1
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I would agree that for many, fewer boxes are better. However, I think digital and analog should be kept separate. Think ahead 10-20 years from now. I think the BR20 will be more outdated than a BP25.
if...if that dac is modular it should be good for a long time for upgrades. I’ll believe it when I see it though.
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...good point, fbny! the BP 17³ deserves a more multi functional dac card. a usb input is very important for many users these days. and it just doesn't make sense that a preamp like the 17³ with a pricetag of a few thousand is still without this feature if you ask me. however, i love my 17³ - not only for the xlr-biamp feature... :thumb:
al.
A BR-20 with all upgrades vs my BP-17 with all upgrades really tempts me but I still use a reel to reel deck and I’d miss the tape loop. That said, I am still considering it...I could incorporate a .5B pre just for the tape loop.
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I would agree that for many, fewer boxes are better. However, I think digital and analog should be kept separate. Think ahead 10-20 years from now. I think the BR20 will be more outdated than a BP25.
I would bet the BDA-3 DAC internals in the BR-20 will still be an excellent DAC in 20 years! I think of how many fans of old 20 bit ladder DACs out there!
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Like others here a killer integrated based off the 4B3 and new 20 pre/DAC/streamer to take on Gryphon, T & A and McIntosh etc. Maybe when the next gen topology is released? Agree too with those who want meters. Specs should be 300/600 into 8/4 ohms and S/N ratio 115<db Class A for the 1st 15 watts. Sell it for 20K CAD retail - problem is you would need to seriously improve your MM software to Bluos or Naim level. If that is impossible, ditch the streamer/DAC section and go pure analog with a good MM/MC phono stage and charge 15K.
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I would bet the BDA-3 DAC internals in the BR-20 will still be an excellent DAC in 20 years! I think of how many fans of old 20 bit ladder DACs out there!
Hi - Yes the BR20 is totally modular with separate boards for the analog, digital, streaming and phono and gain stages even the HDMI board so totally adaptable to upcoming technologies in the future.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220646)
james
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BHA-2. Bingo consider one sold.
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Hi - Yes the BR20 is totally modular with separate boards for the analog, digital, streaming and phono and gain stages even the HDMI board so totally adaptable to upcoming technologies in the future.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220646)
james
James, what do you think of my solution of incorporating a .5B or the like for the phono and tape loop options and the BR-20 for main pre functions and digital front end?
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Thanks James for seeking input from your customer base.
1. As many have stated here, the Bryston SP3 processor needs to be reimagined to embrace the latest codecs (Dolby Vision/Atmos) and perhaps a larger display window and Wi-Fi capability. Room correction voodoo adds more problems than it solves, so keep that piece deep in the Otonabee River. Add a built-in modern DAC, a 2021 upgradeable HDMI board and most importantly stable firmware for the signal processing end of things. The most recent owner's manual for the SP3 in non-intuitive and does not reflect the needs of the consumer. Assign this task to a top-notch editor with knowledge of all things audio and video. Use the OPPO UDP-205 owner's manual as a benchmark.
2. A cubed series centre channel mono amp (75 to 100 watts) would be well received, especially by those who own other Bryston cubed amplifiers in a home theatre system.
3. I can't believe I'm saying it, but a modest Bryston receiver makes sense today, especially when you consider the growth of condos and finished basements yearning for a second system. Space is at a premium for condo dwellers. A receiver also embraces WAF considerations.
All the best.
Alan
Jordan, Ontario
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James, what do you think of my solution of incorporating a .5B or the like for the phono and tape loop options and the BR-20 for main pre functions and digital front end?
Not sure on the tape-loop idea as I assume it would be a re-design of the BR20 so probably a different product.
james
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...please no VU-meters for Bryston amps :nono:
al.
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Not sure on the tape-loop idea as I assume it would be a re-design of the BR20 so probably a different product.
james
Not asking for a tape loop on the BR-20, rather, using a BR-20 and adding an older Bryston pre like the .5B for tape loop and possibly phono pre duties.
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Hi Folks,
So I would like some opinions about what Bryston should consider to manufacture for its next product.
Give me your top three (3) and the reasons why.
Thanks in advance.
james
1. An evolution of the BDA3.14. Something with all the BDP functionality ( a display and IR codes for skipping back and forward etc ) plus a DAC. You could even think of it as a scaled back BR20. I like the BDA3.14 , but it doesn't replace a BDP + BDA.
2. A new DAC . This is a personal request. In Europe we are pretty much home all the time now, an upgrade for my 5 year old BDA3 would be very welcome. Previously when I went from the BDA1 to the BDA3 there was a significant improvement in sound quality - another step would give me something to smile about.
3. A new BW that's a Roon endpoint. I would like to a new version of the BR that competes with the Naim Muso on functionality. The Muso can be used as a Room Endpoint and for TV audio (it has a HDMI ARC input).
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Give me your top three (3) and the reasons why.
1. An entry-level integrated amp. I love my B135 cubed, but there is no way I could have considered it when I started out with my first piece of gear. I think elsewhere you wrote that the B60 wasn't selling well enough to continue its manufacture, but even it was a serious step up in cost. If something could fill in the line with a price point near the BDP-Pi you might bring more people starting off into the Bryston family - $4500 for Mini A's + BDP-Pi + integrated. I understand that it's no small lift to fit something of high engineering and manufacturing quality into the price range.
2. Already suggested by someone else was a single-box player/ripper/streamer in a single box. It may be sacrilege but bluetooth connection for streaming from a phone or to headphones should be considered.
3. Not for 2021, but looking forward, everything is moving toward sustainability in just about every industry. I'd say Bryston is already embracing part of it - building ultra-reliable products and continuing to repair them. What about an end-of-life program for safely disposing of old Bryston electronics if they were to ever fail? Class D or other more efficient amplification for lower power? The push is on to force plastic producers to take back their used products. Whether it's the Paris Accords or other future CO2 reduction programs, improved efficiency is key. Some people may scoff at this but it's something to consider for the long term.
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I'd buy a Bryston Receiver (depending on price)
I just picked up a Anthem MRX-740 which will last about 6 years (maybe more)
I know Bryston has Processors and Multichannel amps, but that's far outside my budget and more than I require.
A nice Bryston receiver in the same price brackets as say the Anthems would be really cool.
I only use the receiver for HT for Center and Surround channels.
Fronts are powered by 7BSST3.
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James, would it be fair to say that the BR-20 is a stereo version of the SP3?
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James, would it be fair to say that the BR-20 is a stereo version of the SP3?
Thats a good question - in some ways it is but the unique thing about the BR20 is that it is fully balanced throughout the signal path and truly modular in concept for future proofing - and of course the streamer function.
james
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Hi,
I don’t know if this makes sense in the current world of audio/video streaming, but a universal player equipped with a solid and state of the art drive without DAC inside will be something unique – it shall play blu ray video/audio, Sacd, Redbook, Dvd with several output as spdif, coax, Aes/ebu, optical, I2S and Hdmi. Customers can pair it with their own Dac (as BDA3) to spin discs.
Best would be to output Dsd stream to an external Dac on Aes/ebu and spdif - is it still patent protected by Sony?
There are many audiophiles who still want to play their Sacd, blu rays and cd.
Oppo, Denon & Marantz, Cambridge are out of the universal player market and there are rumors that also Pioneer is in financial troubles. The only alternatives are Sony or Panasonic, which are ok btw but Bryston clients may want something more still without paying crazy $ for high end drive as Esoteric or Kalista.
My 2 cents.
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echoing what some others have said...sacd capability from the BCD-3...doesn't have to be a transport only, just the ability to play sacds...I play both dsd files (ripped and downloaded from a BDP-3) and sacds - currently using a Pioneer universal player into BDA-3.14 via hdmi....the other useful product would be smaller mono blocks...maybe 4b3 spec
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A pair of nice SMALL monoblocks. Cap them at 25 lbs each, for those of us who are back-challenged. Also caters to those who want to situate by their speakers but can't financially reach the current monos.
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I would suggest some less expensive mono-block amps, that have balanced inputs and two sets of speaker posts. I use to have the 7B-NRB mono-block amps back in the day as they were affordable.
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Small footprint pre with modern/digital connectivity. Something like half the size/functionality/cost of the new BR20. Well implemented sub outputs and high pass mains, and roon or BluOS functionality would be major wins. There arnt tons of options for high quality 2.2 preamps these days.
A dream product for me would be something like a hi quality north American made version of Minidsp SHD digital pre with DSP and adjustability> Im sure thats a small market though.
4B3 based based super integrated would be really sweet as well.
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Universal digital crossover, like DEQX, but much higher quality (other manufacturers are not even worth mentioning), with much better DSP and DA, operating at higher sampling rates and most importantly much higher number of bits.
There is no such high end product on the market, DEQX just keeps repackaging old technology.
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...please no VU-meters for Bryston amps :nono:
al.
I agree. It would be a colossal mistake. :nono:
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1. Monoblocks with 4B3 specs
2. Monoblocks with 4B3 specs
3. Monoblocks with 4B3 specs
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I don't have any original new product ideas simply because Bryston has made everything I've ever wanted, along with the BCD-3 which I had not imagined falling in love with, going all the way back to the BDP-1 and BDA-1 which appeared out of the blue and changed everything, at least for me.
What I never want to see is anything with the performance compromised to meet a price because that is already being done by so many others. Another thing is special editions with gold plating and jewel encrustation for very rich and insecure people to demonstrate how much money they can spend for no good purpose, but just to prove they have it. I like Bryston being an island of logic, science and sanity, along with good taste.
Now, the speakers radiating forward and backward showed up in some tests my good friend Cam Pyper did nearly 40 years ago and that configuration performed as well as he had hoped, so I think you're on to something there.
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I think it's time to number the inputs ie input 1, 2, 3, 4 instead of a tuner, cd, video etc inputs. People have all sorts of different sources these days who is to assume they have a tuner for example. My system is only audio yet my B60r has a input labeled video. Whatever the next products are just make sure traditional Bryston green LED's. No need to look like every other product with blue. No meters.
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mono block with 4b3 specs with a vu meter !!!!!!!
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I think it's time to number the inputs ie input 1, 2, 3, 4 instead of a tuner, cd, video etc inputs.
I agree with this idea. Long overdue. Only call out different types. Line 1, Line 2, Bal 1, Bal 2, Phono.
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I agree with this idea. Long overdue. Only call out different types. Line 1, Line 2, Bal 1, Bal 2, Phono.
I think we've done this for the BR20, the digital input assignments are labelled 1 to 10 and the analog inputs are labelled BAL1, BAL2, RCA1 and RCA2.
Chris
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Personally I would prefer a higher end BDP, a BDP-4.
Something with a higher build quality, design and parts, better internal cabling, internal parts isolation from each other, better clock on usb and spdif, 1 single external fuse not 2 internal ones, reliable software, faster startup and navigation, less heat generation, thicker case and vibration control, feet, with 2 x GB LAN, wi-fi built in, plastic remote included.
For the price of a Bdp-3 you don't get any of that.
Don't get me wrong I like the web interface (and I want it to stay that way) but it's an unfinished work... Try to add music from a NAS and deal with the errors.
I like the "open source" flavor of the product and this too should stay that way.
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I don‘t know if it would cater to the current Bryston customers, but since expanding the customer base could be a desirable outcome, offering Dante networking in the Bryston amps would be something I would evaluate. Bryston could differentiate itself by providing a high quality D/A implementation or, considering an all digital preamp, the Dante out connected to a Dante enabled power amp would give an extended all digital path. Together with the idea of (smaller) Bryston mono amps, this gives completely new options of how to set up your system. It might even give you new options regarding high end multiroom applications.
Dante is the de facto standard for high quality networked audio in the professional realm and is making its first appearances in the consumer sector. My JBL Synthesis SDP-55 (yes, I parted with my SP-3 and the SP-4, being high priced while not being a „real“ Bryston did not appeal to me), as an early example, has Dante outputs. They still have some firmware problems, but replacing 16 XLRs with one CAT cable makes wiring much easier.
So for digital sources, I see no disadvantage since sampling rates on Dante can be up to 192kHz and bit depth up to 32bit.
Maybe Dante could even be offered as an upgrade on Bryston legacy amps.
Just my 2 cents on the topic...
Markus
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Hi James!
My top 3 in no particular order would be as follows:
1. Analog-only version of BR-20.
Reasons: Streaming and HDMI aren't paramount to traditional HIFI hobbyists. Since BP-26 and BP-6 have been around for a number of years, updating them with the new BR-20 circuitry might not be a bad idea. If I were you, I would discontinue the BP-26, update the BP-17^3 to the BR-20 circuit whilst keeping it as simple as possible and then introduce a BP-6 replacement in the form of a single-ended-only version of the circuit. Or just keep the BP-6 if that circuit is inherently balanced.
2. Update on the B60 design.
Reasons: In Europe, B60 is overpriced if we're talking about features alone. Even the distributors are recommending something else. Sound has nothing to do with it of course but at that price point, the choices are vast So European brands like Naim take precedence.
3. Microphone preamplifier, preferably a 2-channel one
Reasons: While there are a lot of choices out there, there are only a handful of preamps with truly transparent sound to cater for the best microphones that already have "a sound". The best ones I've found still color the sound to a degree. This would be an expensive thing to do, I realize that. Perhaps some existing preamp or headphone amp circuit could be modified and/or further developed. I have seen some older Bryston design online once but it was gone very quickly as someone bought it. But if I remember correctly, the gain wouldn't have been enough for the microphones I am using.
Cheers,
Antun
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This is not exactly about a new product but want to express my request to please, please continue the BCD3. It is a stellar product and has made my collection " great again". I have one now but intend to buy a second for my other listening area (headphones only). I assume you will as long as Stream Unlimited has the tray loader available....thanks James....."Redbook". :thumb:
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If anyone is still reading this thread (it seemed to have died off quickly), one thing I'd like to see Bryston doing is a microphone preamp. A zero-compomise, high-gain, low-noise 2-channel preamp. It would be nice to have one with a built-in A/D converter which Bryston already makes in the form of the BAX-1 digital crossover.
Does that seem like something you'd be interested in doing, James?
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi Folks,
All these ideas are good and thanks for the input.
james
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I would also vote for 4B or even 3B mono block amp versions. I have been using 2 PP300s since 2005 and just bought a couple more to use one of them for a 3.0 system with recently purchased SP3. Sounds great. Not suggesting PP revitalization but 17" or 19" rack versions would be nice. Thanks, Al
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If anyone is still reading this thread (it seemed to have died off quickly), one thing I'd like to see Bryston doing is a microphone preamp. A zero-compomise, high-gain, low-noise 2-channel preamp. It would be nice to have one with a built-in A/D converter which Bryston already makes in the form of the BAX-1 digital crossover.
Does that seem like something you'd be interested in doing, James?
Cheers,
Antun
Once upon a time, circa 1992 or possibly earlier...
http://old.bryston.com/PDF/Manuals/BMP2_MANUAL.pdf
Google shows just a couple available on various selling sites, but they may be old listings.
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Price creep is one of those sad but unfortunate realities, especially when you try to keep all the work in Canada. So perhaps looking at this a different way, what products can Bryston produce (or maybe even reduce??) in order to simplify their production lines and bring costs down? Although I'm making broad assumptions here, and maybe further reductions aren't even possible given the current structures of the company and production lines.
Back to the original wishlist idea farming though...
1) I too am curious about the mic preamp, but that's probably a pipe dream
2) I actually really like the MPS-2 power supply concept that can feed multiple units, but that requires a very very dedicated Bryston stack, and frankly this entire audiophile hobby is built around people juggling and swapping gear so this doesn't pan out very well. The only way I could see this working is if: a) one single 1U or half rack power supply per unit, so dedicate that entire space for one super duper filtered out the wazoo output; or b) maybe a universal unit with with some switches or jumpers that let the user adjust output voltages so they can use it with other gear (can of worms, I know).
3) Refreshed BHA-1 or BHA-2 with more gain options to suit a wider variety of headphones and IEMs (0/10/20db switch would be good), you can remove the 2x XLR(3) on the front since almost no one uses that anymore. Maybe with the separate power supply like you used to (if you did that, you might have room inside the chassis for a dac option and perhaps extra inputs because all-in-one units are popular in the headphone world)
I'd love to have something like a BMP/BHA/BDA stack all being fed from a single dedicated MPS in a nice tidy 4U rack, but honestly how many people would actually be valid customers looking for something like that?
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James,
My thoughts
An Update on the BHA-1 with a couple of balanced inputs preamp/fixed pass through, so could be used to give high quality headphone rig with multiple amps like a valve amp or in a simple HT setup.
A strange one but a simple honest mid range CD transport that could do what the old BOT did for ripping but also play CD's with a BDA-3 etc in a matching full form factor. I still like the idea of playing physical media but don't like the idea of having multiple dacs to upgrade. They all seem very high end or too low end - digital out of a cheap CD player.
SP4 with balanced input module and a BDA 3.14 module. Streaming, high end audio and HT in one box.
Regards
Stuart
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1) I too am curious about the mic preamp, but that's probably a pipe dream
I think there was a BMP-2 (and I assume BMP-1 before that) at some point as Andrew Marshall listed it as the mic preamp used used to make his Audio Ideas Test and Reference CD.
However, I've never seen one, and can't find any mention of it on the net.
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I think there was a BMP-2 (and I assume BMP-1 before that) at some point as Andrew Marshall listed it as the mic preamp used used to make his Audio Ideas Test and Reference CD.
However, I've never seen one, and can't find any mention of it on the net.
Hi
We only made a few - did not sell very well.
james
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Just one humble suggestion..
what about a preamp (with digital inputs) with Bax-1 functionality built in OR add digital inputs to the Bax-1??
The crossover function could be programmed for 2 or 3 way and the crossover over points could be set by the user. Suggested settings could be provided by Bryston for your current active speakers. Additionally, this would make the unit functional for any 2 or 3 way speaker ,, optimally if one could MacGyver the existing crossover out of the circuitry. Additionally the current dac-adc-dac process would be streamlined.
It seems less than ideal for someone to feed dsd to a BDA-3 only to have it down sampled.
IMHO
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Hi MR
The BDA3 does not down-sample the DSD.
james
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Sorry, I should have been clearer, the Bda-3 / bax-1 combo effectively down samples a DSD signal.
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Hi James,
For me the following are my top three products for Bryston:
1- A replacement for legendary SP3 processor :green: with the latest surround sound formats with an excellent streamer and updated DAC section for 2 or multi-channel audio..
There is nothing on the market today that is as good as SP3 for either 2 channel or multi channel audio quality and keep the analog inputs.
2- Single channel amp, good for 300 watts - 8 ohms or 500 watts - 4 ohms
This would supplement bi-amping of speakers and when you need only one channel of amplification, but try to keep it compact in size.
3) - A replacement for BDA-3 :green:, but consider R-2R ladder DAC configuration
There a only a few R-2R ladder DACs that are truly amazing for decoding digital signals and gives us I²S inputs, but maintain the current inputs as well.
Luigi
I wholeheartedly endorse this suggestion. There is no processor upgrade path with Bryston since the SP4 is not a replacement for the SP3. The SP3 has been around a long time. Maybe an upgraded version with new HDMI interface and other enhancements may be a suitable lower cost progression.
Howard
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Sorry, I should have been clearer, the Bda-3 / bax-1 combo effectively down samples a DSD signal.
Technically this combo also doesn't downsample, but yes the BAX uses a DSP that uses PCM in its A to D conversion so that it can apply the filters for the speaker configuration. Im not sure if there is a DSP out there capable of applying filters to DSD content as I'm not even aware of any audio editing software that can do this. As much as there are users out there that like to listen to the DSD format, it's very difficult to work with or even just to render it without clicks or pops.
Chris
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Technically this combo also doesn't downsample, but yes the BAX uses a DSP that uses PCM in its A to D conversion so that it can apply the filters for the speaker configuration. Im not sure if there is a DSP out there capable of applying filters to DSD content as I'm not even aware of any audio editing software that can do this. As much as there are users out there that like to listen to the DSD format, it's very difficult to work with or even just to render it without clicks or pops.
Chris
Hi Chris!
As far as I am aware, there are no crossovers that do direct DSD filtering. It is typically done at 24/96 or lower, very seldom higher, but always in PCM. Some processing simply isn't mathematically possible with DSD. Hence DSD titles are typically genre-related, where such processing either isn't necessary or is kept to a minimum.
Some labels do whatever they can to shape the sound before conversion, while it's still in the analog domain, before A/D conversion. It is stressful work for both recording engineers and musicians to do this because the mistakes cannot be repaired. It is one-take only and that's it.
But generally, using digital crossovers like BAX-1 kind of makes the whole point of "a DAC" unnecessary. Why simply not use a digital source connected digitally to the crossover to avoid unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. They say that the benefits of active crossover systems outweigh the drawbacks of this "additional" conversion but it doesn't make much sense to have a separate DAC before the crossover IMO, financially or otherwise.
Cheers,
Antun
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As others have mentioned, I'd like to see 4b or 3b level monoblocks.
And a 25 year warranty should get me to the end of my life :)
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Hi Antun,
You wrote: "...But generally, using digital crossovers like BAX-1 kind of makes the whole point of "a DAC" unnecessary. Why simply not use a digital source connected digitally to the crossover to avoid unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. They say that the benefits of active crossover systems outweigh the drawbacks of this "additional" conversion but it doesn't make much sense to have a separate DAC before the crossover IMO, financially or otherwise."
I mostly agree, it would make more sense to a have digital-in-analog-out. It could be implemented either as (1) having an additional digital digital input directly to the filter DSP, or (2) to have the cross-over DSP built into the DAC or into a digital preamp, having the 2x2 or 3x2 stereo outputs allowing bi-amping or tri-amping. In defense of BAX-1 I have to say that it was specified from the beginning as strictly analog-in-analog-out because it was tied by design to be sold with the specific Bryston/Axiom speaker models regardless of any front end or a preamp. Thus the mid-range characteristics was fixed, while only the bass 30-120Hz could be adjusted (for the room listening characteristics) .
If BAX's successor will ever be specified to be sold with BDA-3, SP3, BDP's or BR20 etc, then should certainly have the direct digital inputs and have the fully configurable frequency range equalization.
Stan
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jbuzas wrote: "As others have mentioned, I'd like to see 4b or 3b level monoblocks."
Hi jbuzas,
You may find that stereo amps or multichannel packaged power amps are easier to wire in our homes because of less potential problems with the power ground issues.
Stan
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Stan,
I don't understand--what is the issue with plugging monoblocks into my wall outlets?
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"I don't understand--what is the issue with plugging monoblocks into my wall outlets?"
If you plug it into different outlets, far apart from each other and away from the common signal source, then you may hear 120Hz hum. Especially if you put your ear close to a speaker. Sometimes, but not always. It also depends on how is your source/preamp wired to the monoblocks. Sometimes it works well and is quiet, sometimes it hums, especially if you use power outlets on different phases (depends how is your house wired). You can simply avoid all those problems if you have both channels close together and close to the source (close to a preamp) supplying all from one outlet and one local ground, or if you just do not use monoblocks if you do not have to.
Stan
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Ok, thanks. I hear hum sometimes in my system that has a Bryston BP 16 preamp and Bryston 3b SST amp. I'm not sure why.
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1. I would personally like to see an amp from North America (specifically Canada) that has variable bias.
If you would like to disrupt the boys in Denmark like Vitus and Gryphon, this would be the way to do it.
It allows more tweaking once the product has been purchased without the desire for buyers like myself who switch between sets of speakers to also switch amplification.
I suspect this would give you greater exposure to the Asian markets where small rooms, horns, compression drivers, single driver speakers and a growing middle class litter the landscape and should make for an economically viable reason to develop such a product.
It would certainly give you greater exposure to my basement. I would buy this from my Canadian brothers.
If heat is a concern I believe a 10 year warranty would be a reasonable trade off on such a product.
2. I would also like to see a mosfet implementation of a bryston design compared to the current bipolar units. If mosfets are not in the cards, strap some Sanken output transistors to these bad boys. I love my bryston gear but there is some undeniable quality that lurks within Burmester and some Mark Levinson gear that I find beguiling.
3. An integrated based on the 135 or even perhaps the 4b3 that offers balanced inputs and outputs providing a linear upgrade path for those who either want to add monos (Such as 28's) or allow bridging with another matching amp like is done with the 4b3's, while at the same time allowing bi-amping, etc. I’m not sure if this eats into your market strategy but it would make for a very versatile product.
Of course, only my 0.02. Good of you guys to reach out to the community for suggestions even if we don’t know what we are talking about most of the time, lol.
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Re: variable bias, (giving examples of Vitus, Gryphon and Burmester amps).
Those amps have higher THD+N than Bryston, by an order of magnitude. I couldn't find THD specs for Burmester but their signal to noise listed is 103dB which is rather poor, while Bryston amps reach noise floor at -130dB (quoting from memory). Having variable bias would not improve the performance since Bryston class AB operation provides THD already as low (THD ~0.001% at 20kHz) or lower than many other vendors' amps in class A.
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My suggestion is based on what I think people would like to see and one that would sell. If you look at the Uber high end offerings out there, they incorporate this type of feature and people are willing to pay for it (even if it’s not quantitatively better)
I get that I am pitching my idea to a group that is probably not big on subjectives, but if they could incorporate their current low distortion high S/N design into something whereby that default would be the low bias setting and then allow the user to ratchet up the bias from there that they would have a very interesting product that I would definitely buy (even if it doesn’t measure as good)
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Hi Antun,
You wrote: "...But generally, using digital crossovers like BAX-1 kind of makes the whole point of "a DAC" unnecessary. Why simply not use a digital source connected digitally to the crossover to avoid unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. They say that the benefits of active crossover systems outweigh the drawbacks of this "additional" conversion but it doesn't make much sense to have a separate DAC before the crossover IMO, financially or otherwise."
I mostly agree, it would make more sense to a have digital-in-analog-out. It could be implemented either as (1) having an additional digital digital input directly to the filter DSP, or (2) to have the cross-over DSP built into the DAC or into a digital preamp, having the 2x2 or 3x2 stereo outputs allowing bi-amping or tri-amping. In defense of BAX-1 I have to say that it was specified from the beginning as strictly analog-in-analog-out because it was tied by design to be sold with the specific Bryston/Axiom speaker models regardless of any front end or a preamp. Thus the mid-range characteristics was fixed, while only the bass 30-120Hz could be adjusted (for the room listening characteristics) .
If BAX's successor will ever be specified to be sold with BDA-3, SP3, BDP's or BR20 etc, then should certainly have the direct digital inputs and have the fully configurable frequency range equalization.
Stan
If you're maintaining digital in, might as well maintain digital out as well. That just gives us an excuse to buy two dacs on the output side lol.
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1. Streamer + DAC unit that supports MQA in Tidal. I know you don't agree with MQA but the trend really goes in this direction, we are losing many customers here because we don't offer MQA
2. Small streamer faster than Pi, also maybe with MQA support. Pi was nice idea, but interface much slower and limited compared to competition
3. Definitely one turntable. Vinyl is still going well on the market.
Hope this helps.
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More Integrated less amps. Bryston Receiver Makes sense today.
charles
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1. Streamer + DAC unit that supports MQA in Tidal. I know you don't agree with MQA but the trend really goes in this direction, we are losing many customers here because we don't offer MQA
2. Small streamer faster than Pi, also maybe with MQA support. Pi was nice idea, but interface much slower and limited compared to competition
3. Definitely one turntable. Vinyl is still going well on the market.
Hope this helps.
Hi
We will never offer MQA
james
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Hi
We will never offer MQA
james
And the courage to make statements like that, driven by reality and engineering and not marketing, is why I admire Bryston.
Sorry I'm late to the new product thread.... but my thinking would be along the lines of:
- Undertake a strategic reconsideration of the role of Class D or equivalent compact amplification, to decide if there may be a market need for a separate lineup of more compact, design-led, and still high sound quality integrated components in the Bryston fold. I am thinking here of new markets and in particular younger markets, NOT the majority of participants here on the AC threads, who by and large are comfortable with the traditional hi-fi component look and function. Bryston has moved very soundly into the digital age with well-reviewed products, but their traditional sizes, shapes, and configuration, the perception that these are difficult to configure or use, may not be expanding the audio market that much for the company. The Bry-fi active speakers are one solution, but I see a space for a very slim compact "receiver" for a digital stereo system, paired with traditional speakers (wireless or wired). This kind of product is still often denigrated as "lifestyle" by some in the industry, but to me, music is music no matter what combination of technology and design is used.
- Hence my idea for one product direction (influenced a bit by my time doing corporate strategy development ) is to think about Bryston for our children's needs, not ours (assuming many here have adult children now making their own way through their lives).
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Hi
We will never offer MQA
james
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Hi
We will never offer MQA
james
I love this response too. MQA is bogus marketing. Those are probably fighting words for some, but there you have it. I'm even doubting whether high resolutoin files have any audible difference. i've got a pretty resolving system, and haven't heard it.
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I love this response too. MQA is bogus marketing. Those are probably fighting words for some, but there you have it. I'm even doubting whether high resolutoin files have any audible difference. i've got a pretty resolving system, and haven't heard it.
I find it that the number of bits rather than the sampling frequency makes the difference, for example I hear the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/48 or 24/96, but no difference between any 24-bit ones up to 192 (this assumes the same recording in different resolutions, not converted ones). On the other hand I find a few 384K I have exceptional but it must be due to recent recordings techniques done with new equipment that is better in all aspects.
And I find DSD in general boring as hell.
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Hi
We will never offer MQA
james
I agree - no need for that imho
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DITTO to 4B3 mono and CONGRATS to JAMES :thumb: - https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/oped/secrets-q-a-with-bryston-ceo-james-tanner/ (https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/oped/secrets-q-a-with-bryston-ceo-james-tanner/)
1. Monoblocks with 4B3 specs
2. Monoblocks with 4B3 specs
3. Monoblocks with 4B3 specs
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DITTO to 4B3 mono and CONGRATS to JAMES :thumb: - https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/oped/secrets-q-a-with-bryston-ceo-james-tanner/ (https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/oped/secrets-q-a-with-bryston-ceo-james-tanner/)
I like the idea that James outlined in the interview linked above:
„ ... I’ve been talking with Storm Audio recently about the possibility of us manufacturing a version of their processor in-house, our way. So with this new merger in place, we could conceivably ask Storm for the rights to build the processor in-house in Canada, from the ground up with our modifications, and pay them a royalty per unit. The only thing we would need from them is the software.“
As a matter of fact, I was envisioning the perfect processor years ago on this forum, although I was thinking about Trinnov processing combined with Bryston analog and overall audiophile/technical expertise. While Trinnov’s approach of the flexible PC platform based processing is unique, I am shocked when looking at the inside of the $$$ unit. There has to be enormous potential if the analog side is done in Bryston style.
Storm‘s like Bryston‘s surround processor designs have always been based on MDS platforms. But apparently, there is more to it than just implanting a MDS board into your own processor. It is hard to tell how bare the software is that MDS provides. They do offer a reference design. What does that cover software wise?
To be honest, while I like the idea of a „real“ Bryston 3D Audio processor, I still would be hesitant to spend 15 or 20 grand on a processor.
It is a general problem that the cost of manual labor and high quality components keeps going up. I acquired a used Bryston 6B ST amp once and the seller included the original invoice that listed the amp at $1,750. While that might be some 20 years ago, a 6B pro amp now probably sells for close to $10,000. The good stuff is more and more getting out of reach for a portion of the audio enthusiasts.
My first Bryston amp was a 3B and back then, Bryston‘s nick name was „Ordinary people’s Mark Levinson“ because it offered incredible value and audiophile qualities while being relatively affordable. Looking at current list prices, especially over here in Europe, Bryston easily is on par with ML. While this could be a viable strategy for Bryston, its positioning is quite different to what it was when I was infected by the Bryston virus back in the old millennium...
Another 2 Cents from Germany!
Markus
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I like the idea that James outlined in the interview linked above:
„ ... I’ve been talking with Storm Audio recently about the possibility of us manufacturing a version of their processor in-house, our way. So with this new merger in place, we could conceivably ask Storm for the rights to build the processor in-house in Canada, from the ground up with our modifications, and pay them a royalty per unit. The only thing we would need from them is the software.“
As a matter of fact, I was envisioning the perfect processor years ago on this forum, although I was thinking about Trinnov processing combined with Bryston analog and overall audiophile/technical expertise. While Trinnov’s approach of the flexible PC platform based processing is unique, I am shocked when looking at the inside of the $$$ unit. There has to be enormous potential if the analog side is done in Bryston style.
Storm‘s like Bryston‘s surround processor designs have always been based on MDS platforms. But apparently, there is more to it than just implanting a MDS board into your own processor. It is hard to tell how bare the software is that MDS provides. They do offer a reference design. What does that cover software wise?
To be honest, while I like the idea of a „real“ Bryston 3D Audio processor, I still would be hesitant to spend 15 or 20 grand on a processor.
...
Another 2 Cents from Germany!
Markus
Interesting concept there. With James now running the ship and his disapproval of room correction coupled with the overwhelming majority of people paying the big bucks for the Storm and Trinnov units room correction is seemingly one of customers priorities so I unfortunately don't think a product playing in that league without room correction would sell enough units for Bryston to recoup their R&D costs. They would need a full featured EQ to move units.
Yeah yeah :) I know there are those here on the forum who don't want room correction and agree with James' philosophy but you are definitely in the minority.
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Hi James,
Qualified as a Roon user;
1. A new DAC better suited to a few audio inputs (streamer 1 , streamer 2 and an optical for a TV is all I use). Am I missing something with HDMI? A HDMI pass-through I would be okay if it was operational in standby.
2. Can a new DAC use the MPS-2 power supply in conjunction with the BP-26?
Other products that may be of interest;
1. A Roon core
2. A Roon core and streamer in combination, eliminating a NAS
Thanks
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... the more i think about it, the more i feel that an integrated would be good idea. a combination of the new BR20 and a 3B³ (as a minimum).
al.
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..deleted.
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...@ Markus:
yes, sadly the price for Bryston when you want a new unit just went through the ceiling. i bought my 26 new for 3600 Euros. now it is 8471 Euros according to Avitech's website. the years certainly went by when i bought this beautiful preamp new...but this is something i can't understand. especially if you keep in mind that there has been no technical change/improvement (correct me, if i'm wrong here).
however, beeing a long time Bryston user from the bottom of my heart it makes my eyes (and mind) water to understand that maybe in the near future a new Bryston component will become unreachable for me...
al.
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I've got to agree with this poster :
"" 3. An integrated based on the 135 or even perhaps the 4b3 that offers balanced inputs and outputs providing a linear upgrade path for those who either want to add monos (Such as 28's) or allow bridging with another matching amp like is done with the 4b3's, while at the same time allowing bi-amping, etc. I’m not sure if this eats into your market strategy but it would make for a very versatile product.
balanced inputs and outputs , more watts, upgraded DAC, streaming capabilities
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If you could add the Pi to the 'B135/DAC Cubed' it would be so cool!
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I think Bryston has become way too expensive in the last years. I own a 4B3, a BP173 and a BDA3. The price for the 4B3 was 5978 EUR in mid 2016. A year later when the review in the German STEREO magazine was published, it was around 6500 EUR. Today it is 8034 EUR for the same product (all incl tax). That is 12094 CAD.
A B60R was listed (before being discontinued) with 5381 EUR (8098 CAD). Looking at other companie's products in that range it will be difficult to compete. And writing that I want to mention that I do NOT have brands in mind that shifted production to low cost locations.
I like the sound, the 20 year warranty and the brand in general.
It is clear that production in CA is more expensive than in Taiwan. I guess the strategy to handle as much as possible in CA inhouse is key to the overall Bryston quality that is basis for the long warranty. Still I wonder if a wider product range is more preferable than an optimized production process that results in more stable prices to the end customer.
At today's price tag I would hesitate buying the afore mentioned gear and would also need to take also other brands into consideration.
I read somewhere a statement by James that the new company structure will allow Bryston to become less of anassembler and more of a production company that depends less on external suppliers. I guess that is what could turn around the imho too high price increase of the recent years.
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I agree about the pricing. I know today if I were entering the audio/HT market there is no way I could afford the price of entry for Bryston, certainly not to get what Bryston amps I have now. It's mind boggling how the prices have gone so high over the years. This isn't entirely a Bryston thing, take B&W Diamond series speakers as just one example, the price jump when they introduced the D3 models vs the D2 was ridiculous.
Then of course there is the uber expensive segment like the TAD, Esoteric and D'Andagostino, etc. which price wise make the Bryston pricing model look like dollar store pricing :)
Another Canadian company, Sim Audio has some gear at those stratospheric prices as well, I think their big mono's are pushing like $100k or more.
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One remark about the previously mentioned room correction: 4-5 years ago I bought a pair of new speakers. Actually the ones I always wanted. Small brand from Germany (www.dynamikks.com). Unfortunately I was never convinced of the sound. I changed my power amp to a 4B3. Id did not help. I added a BP173. It did not help. I added the BDA3. Still not what I wanted.
It was strange. I knew the exavt same electronics from an exhibition close to my home town. Other speakers though. I really loved the sound. Hence I concluded it must have been the speakers. I traded in my existing speakers for much more expensive ones. Still not better.
At some point I contacted a specialist for room acoustics. He told me for just 1500 EUR he could check my room withe some measurement gear and develop a concept on how to imrpove acoustics with absorbers and bass traps (hoping that is what it's called in English as well). Of course these could cost several thousand EUR then and would look a bit ... not so nice.
I stumbled across an article in an onoine hifi magazine, reviewing a minidsp SHD. I bought the unit.
Long story short: the improvement was amazing! My system suddently sounded exactly like I expected it to do for that kind of money.
I did not expect such dramatic effects since my room is quite full with furniture, books, a carpet, etc. BUT it is not symmetrical. That caused serious bass problems.
For 1800 EUR the minidsp became the best purchase of the last years. I cannot live without it.
So naturally I support room correction. I can only recommend to try it.
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I know this is off topic but since it was mentioned...I have found that my API 5500 graphic equalizer has balanced the room acoustics very well. Given the shape and size of the listening area it was hopeless to level the bass energy. love the result :thumb:
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I agree about the pricing. I know today if I were entering the audio/HT market there is no way I could afford the price of entry for Bryston, certainly not to get what Bryston amps I have now. It's mind boggling how the prices have gone so high over the years. This isn't entirely a Bryston thing, take B&W Diamond series speakers as just one example, the price jump when they introduced the D3 models vs the D2 was ridiculous.
Then of course there is the uber expensive segment like the TAD, Esoteric and D'Andagostino, etc. which price wise make the Bryston pricing model look like dollar store pricing :)
Another Canadian company, Sim Audio has some gear at those stratospheric prices as well, I think their big mono's are pushing like $100k or more.
Everything is costing way more than we used to pay, I mean everything not just audio equipment. Sooner or later everything will tank. But Audio equipment is getting way out there.
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I stumbled across an article in an onoine hifi magazine, reviewing a minidsp SHD. I bought the unit.
Long story short: the improvement was amazing! My system suddently sounded exactly like I expected it to do for that kind of money.
I did not expect such dramatic effects since my room is quite full with furniture, books, a carpet, etc. BUT it is not symmetrical. That caused serious bass problems.
For 1800 EUR the minidsp became the best purchase of the last years. I cannot live without it.
So naturally I support room correction. I can only recommend to try it.
I don't have the SHD, but do have the miniDSP 2x4HD and absolutely love it. I've never understood people changing pre-amps, power amps and speakers hoping to find that synergy that finally sounds good to them. miniDSP has a great thing going.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-shd-review-updated-dsp-dac-streamer.18681/
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- Lower Power Monoblocks - Half a 4b3 for example.
- A Class D range of amps done right. Something to bring the entry price into the bryston brand a little lower. Also with one eye on reduced energy consumption.
- Update on the SP3, but (upgradeable) HDMI inputs only. 2u height.
- Integrated amp Roon Ready, x2 balanced inputs, class D power. Again a gateway product into the brand.
- A Killer MM/MC phono Preamp stackable with a Roon endpoint, and dac/headphone amp for the head-fi crowd.
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BR25? - a BR20 / "defunct B60R" combo. This would allow to truly have an all-in-one solution and provide the flexibility for those who require the extra power!
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- A Class D range of amps done right. Something to bring the entry price into the bryston brand a little lower. Also with one eye on reduced energy consumption.
Like https://purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/ (https://purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/) you mean?
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Everything is costing way more than we used to pay, I mean everything not just audio equipment. Sooner or later everything will tank. But Audio equipment is getting way out there.
Unfortunate the tank couldn't come sooner rather than later as there is a whole generation of audio enthusiasts missing out on amazing gear simply because the pricing has gotten so out of control.
I'm sure it's a combination of a lot of factors, supply and demand being one of them, manufacturers are willingly charging high prices knowing they will still see sales, then cost of materials to a degree factors in and goes up over time however there in undoubtedly some level of simple greed, charge more to make more build the empire mentality which is sad.
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Unfortunate the tank couldn't come sooner rather than later as there is a whole generation of audio enthusiasts missing out on amazing gear simply because the pricing has gotten so out of control.
I'm sure it's a combination of a lot of factors, supply and demand being one of them, manufacturers are willingly charging high prices knowing they will still see sales, then cost of materials to a degree factors in and goes up over time however there in undoubtedly some level of simple greed, charge more to make more build the empire mentality which is sad.
I can not speak for others but believe me nobody at Bryston is getting rich.
james
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Anybody who thinks Bryston is making money hand over fist needs to take a business coarse in manufacturing. The global price of raw material over the last year or so has almost doubled. Then it refined and it costs ever more. The cost of labour, and keeping good employees and government expenses and taxes go up yearly that has to be factored into products. The R&D in bringing a product to market is huge, and look at what happens when the product flops or a non seller. Where do those costs go that are never made up in that product, it bleeds into the rest of the product lines. If Bryston is making a boatload of money, then good for them. It means that they will be around for warranty and bring another great product to market. This industry is littered with companies that have gone the way of the dodo bird.
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Hi James,
as stated by a few people already, consider that something might need to replace the B60.
From the fact that it was discontinued, the assumption is that it wasn't selling particularly well?
If so, I would venture that it probably wasn't as competitive in the marketplace as the rest of the range.
So my suggestion would be to do a more affordable, back-to-basics, low-power entry-level integrated.
Basic casework. Possibly even half-width-sized. Known, trusted analogue circuits. No remote, microprocessors, etc.
Just 30-50wpc of good, clean power to use with more sensitive loudspeakers.
Perhaps a headphone circuit could be the one 'feature' to offer.
Competitive with e.g. a Naim Nait 5Si, Belles Aria, etc.
Why? To lower the point of entry to the brand. To get new people interested in Bryston.
People outside of the usual audiophile circles.
Just a thought.
2c
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I agree with Nidri17. The current entry point into a bryston system is B135, and at $7k CAD, its a none starter for most people. Not because they can't afford it, but because they can't justify it. Audio fanatics are few and far between, and becoming fewer with each generation.
Some things I would give consideration to is...
- go back to an 90s style dress panel. The new dress panels are nice, but come at a hefty cost and not necessary.
- everyone else uses 1 transformer. why not go with that approach for integrated amps? Leave dual power supplies for the 2B,3B, 4B (etc) power amps of course.
- explore the option of buying pre-assembled amp boards. You would still test and assemble the units, but have the boards pre-assembled, maybe in Japan.
Maybe do all this with the introduction of another product line. Leave the B line for those who want and can afford the absolute best, but introduce an A line (Accessible, Affordable, whatever). An A60, with one transformer, thinner dress panel, full remote control, and priced around 3-4k could be a big hit. Leave digital out of it, users can start with a D10s, but tape monitor has to stay for anyone wanting to add tone control of any sort. This kind of offering will let many more people start a basic Bryston based system and upgrade it later if they choose.
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...good point here! and talking about the B60 - the reason why it went out of production is NOT a sound issue...it's a feature issue, if you ask me. imagine that this integrated was around 5300 Euros (!!!) list. everybody knows that Bryston gear are quality products but more than 5k for a B60 (without remote) where the only options are phono and a 96/24 dac is way out of style for so many people, i guess. too many reasons why it took the way of the Dodo. (btw: i had the chance to buy a 6 year old B60 RP for 1.5k and i just couldn't resist!)
a new designed (entry level) integrated might fill the gap and probably lead other customers to the Bryston road. in any way - if it should become reality it certainly needs one thing: features! :thumb:
al. proud B60 owner.
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Owning both a B60 and a B60R, in my opinion the only thing these units are missing is the full remote control capabilities. These days, you absolutely must have them.
Bryston needs a "Mac Mini" in their line. Something attainable (there I go with the A line again) that is fully functional and whose performance is good enough. Just like people bring their own $59 monitor and $19 keyboard to the Mac mini, people can bring their own phono stage, DAC or eq tools to the B60.
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So , guess there's no hope of a new BOT unit ?
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So , guess there's no hope of a new BOT unit ?
Hi
No sorry -it never really sold that well and most people just use their computer to do CD rips.
james
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Maybe a “loss leader” or close to cost type of entry level product that has a time frame trade up value attached to it may get aspiring Bryston customers into the fold.
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It's unlikely that I will buy another integrated amp, but if I do, I'd like it to look like this. :lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222284)
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Hi
No sorry -it never really sold that well and most people just use their computer to do CD rips.
james.... I.m a bit confused as to how I would play cd if I go for the BDP and BDA as opposed to the all in one BCD3...any solution please...thanks :scratch: :thumb:
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It's unlikely that I will buy another integrated amp, but if I do, I'd like it to look like this. :lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222280)
Hell I would pay for James just to make one for me that looks like that....
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James, whatever you decide to do, just don't price out of reach of most of us on here.
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Bryston could try dipping their toes at both ends of the market. New more affordable products but also, there is an uber high-end segment that exists so I'm not sure what Bryston could possibly come up with for an amp more expensive than the 28's, more power wouldn't be needed but for other audio components they could try introducing multi component items, like a super high-end pre-amp/digital audio unit without power supply, digital clock and and DAC built in, so a matching high-end external power supply, matching external clock and matching external DAC, offering both stereo DAC options and mono DAC options. A number of companies take this approach, Esoteric and dCS come to mind.
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message deleted, I accidently quoted myself :)
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Buttons would work too.
BTW: bought a pencil for the iPad thinking I might take up drawing. What a disaster. Will stick with circles and rectangles.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222301)
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...yes , that's what I was wondering as well.... :scratch:
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Hi
Yes it would play CD's but the drive was slow and very noisy and was really designed more as a ripper vs a CD player.
james
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James , I hope you and the gang will continue to produce a stand alone player like your very fine BCD3. I have one and love the refinement you have achieved in this new improved player.... I'm old fashioned and prefer to play records instead streaming . Please keep up the great work... :thumb:
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I have not read through all the pages, so I apologise if this has already been mentioned. How about a anniversary model of the 4B with the original 4B sequence of LED's? I believe the really early models had multiple gain LEDs?
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I would like to see a high end integrated amp along the lines of the new McIntosh MA12000. A hybrid high power integrated amplifier with built in DAC.
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I just thought of something else, and this may have been put forward all ready, as we had been discussing the ever increasing prices I think a means to be able to work around or with that better for consumers over time is to make the trade in program that was piloted for just the 4B's last year a permanent thing, offered yearly but for all the products and not limited to a like for like trade up. So if someone got into Bryston with a 3B-SST they could trade that in towards a 4B Cubed, or a pair 7B Cubed for example helping to offset some of the cost in upgrading.
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I just thought of something else, and this may have been put forward all ready, as we had been discussing the ever increasing prices I think a means to be able to work around or with that better for consumers over time is to make the trade in program that was piloted for just the 4B's last year a permanent thing, offered yearly but for all the products and not limited to a like for like trade up. So if someone got into Bryston with a 3B-SST they could trade that in towards a 4B Cubed, or a pair 7B Cubed for example helping to offset some of the cost in upgrading.
I would have traded my 3B-STs toward 3B^`3s if that had been an option!
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A full width MM/MC Phono-Stage using a Torodial Transformer and digital cartridge matching so no dip switches,
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Bring back the BOT please ...thanks :thumb:
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Bring back the BOT please ...thanks :thumb:
....Yes please...anything else is too much trouble ... If it's noisy I don't care..thanks :thumb:
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and above all I hope Bryston will always make an all in one CD player like the very fine BCD3 :thumb:
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.
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Hey James, I just noticed the BAX-1, I didn’t know you had such a product. Why not develop that product into a full fledged dsp/dac/eq/xo?
Add digital inputs and an IR sensor. The rest is software development. Fun I know :(. Consider talking to the folks at minidsp about licensing their software. I have the minidsp 2x4HD and the tools are awesome. That with Bryston quality hardware would be amazing.
The pro market would probably be all over it.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222819)
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Hey James, I just noticed the BAX-1, I didn’t know you had such a product. Why not develop that product into a full fledged dsp/dac/eq/xo?
Add digital inputs and an IR sensor. The rest is software development. Fun I know :(. Consider talking to the folks at minidsp about licensing their software. I have the minidsp 2x4HD and the tools are awesome. That with Bryston quality hardware would be amazing.
The pro market would probably be all over it.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222819)
Hi
Yes we use it with our active speakers (it raises the performance of a speaker to new levels). I guess the issue for us is we are just so busy currently that we do not have time to look into some of these great ideas. We will eventually though.
james
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“ At least get it down to two boxes. One box for loading CDs, storage, and playback. Second box for DAC for those who want to experiment or have DACs in their integrated amp.”
+3 on a one box cd transport with ssd storage and a streamer, dac optional.
Again I vote for a one or two box complete solution to CD ripping/storage/playback. Bryston has amplifiers, preamplifiers, and DACs. Do they really need more? What they don't have is a competitive media player in a world shifting rapidly in that direction. I just bought a one-box server for my second system. I would have preferred Bryston but no Bryston product fit my requirements.
Two of my 4 integrated amplifier have DACs so I have some flexibility there and I am not totally opposed to having one good external DAC. What I refuse to have is a kludge of boxes to rip/store/playback.
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Again I vote for a one or two box complete solution to CD ripping/storage/playback. Bryston has amplifiers, preamplifiers, and DACs. Do they really need more? What they don't have is a competitive media player in a world shifting rapidly in that direction. I just bought a one-box server for my second system. I would have preferred Bryston but no Bryston product fit my requirements. :thumb:
Two of my 4 integrated amplifier have DACs so I have some flexibility there and I am not totally opposed to having one good external DAC. What I refuse to have is a kludge of boxes to rip/store/playback.
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(it raises the performance of a speaker to new levels).
For sure, between the amps only needing to operate and in a limited frequency range, avoiding the losses from all the xo components, and now digital allowing easier access to the desired freq response slopes on the drivers, active is the ultimate. My experience with active was in PA use. I once drove a speaker stack with 2 4Bs driving eight bass bins, a 3B driving 4 mid cabinets, and a 2B-lp driving 4 tweeter cabinets. The only amps that reached clipping was the 4Bs. Damn that stack kicked ass. Although I have the necessary equipment to bi-amp my system, I haven't bothered. I don't listen at high levels anymore, and I don't anticipate much benefit in bi-amping for low level listening, though I could be wrong.
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I'd like to see the BDA 3 and 3.14 get an HDMI update to the latest version (or at least 2.0a)
Also have the same digital volume control enabled on the BDA 3 as the 3.14
Although not really audible, update the AKM dacs in the BDA series to 4493 or better
Thanks :-)
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One more idea: a monitor option for all digital products. The digital signal is sent out to e.g. an external processor (Dirac, Trinnov), then sent back to the Bryston as enhanced digital signal, then d/a converted by the Bryston dac.
I saw that in a dac of a small brand here in Germany and liked the idea a lot. Could be interesting in a BDA 3.14.
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Bring back the BOT please ...thanks :thumb:
What if we did a BDP with an integrated BOT and optional drive for storage?
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Sounds good - Chris,
And let add SACD capacity, a better streamer/internet tuner, bigger display, Headphone jack, I2S and multichannel (5.1 or Atmos music) outputs as well...
Luigi :thumb:
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Again, I'd love to see a BDP-Roon Core!
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Hi Folks,
So I would like some opinions about what Bryston should consider to manufacture for its next product.
Give me your top three (3) and the reasons why.
Thanks in advance.
james
1. Competent class D amp. Why? Class D has amazing distortion and noise characteristics, low heat output, and finally, Bruno Putzeys needs smart competition.
2. FIR crossover / USB DAC / room correction. Why? FIR allows much more flexibility when doing room correction than the current approach taken by manufacturers (including Bryston) which is IIR.
3. Doppler distortion remover. No one's built one yet. Theoretically, it should be possible to remove doppler distortion from audio as it's being sent to the speakers.
Good luck on all of those!
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What if we did a BDP with an integrated BOT and optional drive for storage?
..Well that sounds like a great idea to me...hope you will do it sir... :thumb: :thumb:
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the BOT with the BDP...love that :thumb:
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Sounds good - Chris,
And let add SACD capacity, a better streamer/internet tuner, bigger display, Headphone jack, I2S and multichannel (5.1 or Atmos music) outputs as well...
Luigi :thumb:
Already done..... in my imagination that is ;)
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Hi James,
1 - Reboot the 2B. I'm certain the 2.5B is excellent, but the appearance and name have kept me from being really interested. From the top view, it should have the same footprint as the 3B, but it should retain its 2 rack space height. The heat sinks should extend all the way down its sides. Get rid of that notch in the cabinet. and call it a 2B.
2 - A new integrated amp that will fill the bill for a great quality, highly functional, and modestly powered solution. This will appeal to people looking for a second system, office, cottage type needs. People that don't want separates or might be looking to downgrade from separates. This int amp needs more features than the B135, but doesn't need to be as powerful. Maybe something like a B80. It needs tone controls, tape loop, switched power outlet, etc. You saw my post where I compared the features of several int amps. Keep digital stuff out of this unit so it won't depreciate much as the digital tech changes.
3 - I would celebrate 50 years by offering VU meters in your amps. I believe your initial 3B had them, so why not?. I know many will disagree with me, but with sound quality not really something to debate much anymore, features and appearance are where you need to focus now.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209672)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209673)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220266)
I love the idea of meters!
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Hi Guys,
I'd really like to see a product like this and also with a cdp option as well. I am currently using my Bryston bdp 1 as a roon endpoint and I much prefer this to manic moose. I just like its simplicity and its running very smoothly as compared to when I use manic moose. I am no techie though and also bear in mind the Bryston bop 1 is using an awful lot of its processing power as the programs require more memory etc etc.
Again, I'd love to see a BDP-Roon Core!/quote]
Cheers Rod
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This is easy. A portable Bryston bluetooth player for under a $grand. I went and looked on the website to see if there was one, nope. I have come to enjoy music from a single driver point. I also think it hasn’t been fully explored sonically. I’d bet you’d sell lots if wasn’t too expensive.
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Also 12 volt power supplies that would replace wall wart supplies.
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Another product that just came to mind which I don't see many of on the market, not at least targeted specifically to the home theater/audio crowd is a quality UPS coupled with a top notch power conditioner. A lot of us have either outboard PC's housing music and video libraries, attached external USB drives to devices, gaming consoles or dedicated standalone NAS units not to mention most households now a days have PVR's with hard drives. It wouldn't have to be a unit with an enormous power conditioning capacity like say a BIT-20, so 15A would be sufficient I would think given the nature of equipment that would take use of a UPS. I suppose it might be beneficial to also plug in your SSP and tv so they don't have the power dramatically cut from them while in use.
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-B135 Cubed Integrated Amplifier is "love child" of BP-17/3 and 2.5B/3, according to Bryston website.How about BP-17/3 and 4B3, or 14B3, even better.And this time add XLR inputs.That would be "super love child"
-I can't understand, why some people are obsessed with VU meters?I can't even look at Classe, fucking disgusting.
-Bryston is considered as a high end gear (at least in my books), perhaps making "poor man's version", oh let's say SP4, or any other component is not a good idea.
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My 2 cents is to truly make integrated active speaker by making amps specifically designed for them and putting them in the speaker. Provide an integrated pre and dig crossover external but in same enclosure. Pre amp should include HDMI in/out and pre outs for at least 4 powered subs or other amps. (Multi subs is key based on base optimization science.) Leave streamers out of it.
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The BR-20 is major accomplishment. Just add an amplifier for a two box solution.
BUT, simplify the front panel! Go retro if needed, but also take a look at Gato (for example) for some elegant analog front panels.
Can the DAC card for the BP-17 be upgraded to allow networking?
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The BR-20 is major accomplishment. Just add an amplifier for a two box solution.
BUT, simplify the front panel! Go retro if needed, but also take a look at Gato (for example) for some elegant analog front panels.
Can the DAC card for the BP-17 be upgraded to allow networking?
Hi Cip,
No the streaming is done through the Pi not the DAC.
james
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Make the B135 fully cubed and maybe put a display on it.
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New products aside, I mean ones that Bryston has to R&D and build from scratch is to simply pick back up with the SP4 platform and start making available all of the hardware and firmware updates the Storm ISP MK platform has seen over the years. So offer current users the ability to upgrade their units, which is the MK1 platform to the 1.5 and also make available as separate SKU's the MK2 and MK3 or just the MK3 as it has the updated and much more informative screen.
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Hi Rod,
There is not much we can do on that front as it is up to Storm as to whether they want to continue the relationship.
james
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I would like to make a suggestion for a new Bryston product.
Converting (or DIY from scratch) loudspeakers from analog crossover to digital crossover is getting popular. Products that are scarce are multichannel A/D converters and multichannel volume controls. Some people could use 10-12 channels. For example, six channels for a 3-way plus 4 subs. Maybe something like the dspNexus from Danville Signal. The digital part of the minidsp seems to be O.K. It would be nice to exist the minidsp via digital and enter a quality multichannel D/A and then into a quality analog volume control. This could be one unit or two units, but of course price is always important.
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One product I could see selling reasonably well is a Bryston equivalent to SVS's prime elevation speaker. Simple two way wall mountable sealed speaker that has its front baffle aggressively angled to use as height channels. I would assume this would be quite easy to manufacture using the standard titanium tweeter and use of the 5 inch mid-bass driver featured in your loudspeakers. I know I would purchase a set or two for Atmos since I don't have attic access in my house for in ceiling speakers and mounting these to the wall near the ceiling would be easy to do. The prime elevation is priced at $399 Canadian each, I would assume Bryston could hit a similar price point considering they sell the AC1 Micro for $660, these hypothetical speakers would be the same drivers minus one woofer. Just food for thought.
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Hi Rod,
There is not much we can do on that front as it is up to Storm as to whether they want to continue the relationship.
james
Trying to get some clarity on this, is it that you/Bryston have reached out to Storm asking for firmware support to continue and updates be provided for your SP4 platform (their ISP Elite MK 1 platform) and they have shown no interest in doing that? If so why has the SP4 not be discontinued? Was there a contractual agreement that Bryyton would purchase X number of units from Storm and to date that number has not been fulfilled? If so and if they are no longer providing necessary support for your product wouldn't that constitute breach of contract? Not being knowledgable on the MK 1 Elite platform however with it still being shown on the Storm website and not being singled out as being a discontinued product I can only assume they are still supporting it so in turn should be supporting your SP4. If on the other hand it is a discontinued product and a contract still exists between Bryston and Storm shouldn't they then be offering Bryston ISP MK 2 or ISP MK 3 platforms in lieu of no ISP MK 1 availability (and Bryston call them SP5, SP6 or SP4a, SP4b) in order to see a contract through to completion.
Thanks
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Hi Rod,
Yes we have discuss things over time but the pandemic changed any further discussions and we have not had any further discussions. We assume they are going through the same pains we are with lack of parts to build product.
We did not have an agreement as such to buy total number of units just a group of product at one time. We have long since sold out what we had but maybe an official notice that we will not be going forward is a good idea if we both agree that there is no future.
james
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Hi Rod,
Yes we have discuss things over time but the pandemic changed any further discussions and we have not had any further discussions. We assume they are going through the same pains we are with lack of parts to build product.
We did not have an agreement as such to buy total number of units just a group of product at one time. We have long since sold out what we had but maybe an official notice that we will not be going forward is a good idea if we both agree that there is no future.
james
Thanks for the response James, much appreciated. So it appears then that the relationship hasn't soured it's more related to the climate we find ourselves in at the moment. If the relationship is still considered good would there be any chance to arrange for another purchase agreement in the future, this time using the updated Storm platform, that now being the ISP Elite MK3 which has the much better front panel capable of displaying much more detail. I know you guys wanted to add your own analog section, etc. so you had what seemed like a nice road map planned for the SP4 so it would be nice if that could be carried forward via a future product release at some point.
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That's my hope as well.
james
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VU meters would be very cool.
I already own a 4BSSt2 and a pair 7B3's and would not trade them.... But I would buy an outboard Bryston VU meter ( if available ) just for the cool look.
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Thanks for the response James, much appreciated. So it appears then that the relationship hasn't soured it's more related to the climate we find ourselves in at the moment. If the relationship is still considered good would there be any chance to arrange for another purchase agreement in the future, this time using the updated Storm platform, that now being the ISP Elite MK3 which has the much better front panel capable of displaying much more detail. I know you guys wanted to add your own analog section, etc. so you had what seemed like a nice road map planned for the SP4 so it would be nice if that could be carried forward via a future product release at some point.
Hi,
Every major player in audio industry has their own AVR processor or integrated processor, so Bryston needs something at the same level as the SP3 to differentiate itself.
The situation with SP4 is not good for Bryston's reputation and the dependency on Storm has not shown any progress after many years.
Therefore, my opinion for Bryston is to build their own updated AVR processor (SP5) with storm software or their own for under $10k. :thumb:
Luigi
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Well, when I win the lottery I will build a dedicated home theatre room with 24+ channels. The super high end seems like a small niche market to me. In the interim my plan is to gradually build on the current 3.0 system I started a year ago with a used SP3 and additional powerpac 300 amp and a center speaker. Sounds great for movies and music. I hardly ever listen to stereo any more. So, gradually move to 3.1 - 5.1 - 5.2 - ???. Maybe Atmos maybe not. I certainly hope Bryston offers new processors at various tiers with or without collaboration. Actually Storm just released the new ISP Core 16 processor at $11,999 US. Or the Lyngdorf MP-40 at $9,999. Not sure sure I would ever use all 16 channels.
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Hi
How about a 10-12 channel analog preamp?
How about a 10-12 channel A/D converter?
This would allow us to build a 3-way loudspeaker and add 4 subwoofers all with dsp control. The dsp control is available now. The multichannel preamp and multichannel A/D converter are kind of rare. The multichannel A/D would be used to upgrade the dsp units that are available.
Dan
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Hi
How about a 10-12 channel analog preamp?
How about a 10-12 channel A/D converter?
This would allow us to build a 3-way loudspeaker and add 4 subwoofers all with dsp control. The dsp control is available now. The multichannel preamp and multichannel A/D converter are kind of rare. The multichannel A/D would be used to upgrade the dsp units that are available.
Dan
Dan,
I do like the idea of DSP control for active speakers within an AVR multi-channel processor, probably only the front main speakers. :D
The manufacturer's like Bryston could add some Ethernet ports for digital outputs to active speakers with external DSP controls or internal DSP controls within the multi-channel AVR processors with balanced/unbalanced outputs.
The challenge is the software within the AVR processor to do all this work, but it has been done on a few brands of AVRs on the market.
Luigi
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Luigi
Do you mean DSP to control the response of the speaker?
james
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Hi James,
Yes, DSP controls for the speaker responses. Probably the main front speakers and subwoofers only for cost controls, but more would be nice... :thumb:
Luigi
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We do not believe that DSP should be used above about 150Hz.
We spend countless hours trying to get excellent on and off axis even polar response on our speakers and do not want DSP screwing that up.
james
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Hi James, good sound is matter of personal taste. You may voice a speaker so it sounds perfect to your ears, in your room, but suggesting that people don't fine tune it for their own room and preferences above 150Hz, well...
A few years ago I bought the very highly regarded KEF LS50. According to almost everyone in the industry, these things are supposed to be great. Well I hooked them up to a B60 expecting audio bliss, only to be met with serious disappointment. I found the top end dull, and the mids too forward. Those speakers are still in use today, and are still driven by a B60, but only because I use an equalizer in the tape loop to shape the sound to my liking.
I took measurements with and without EQ in my room. Below chart is using the "moving mic" technique, green trace is with EQ and 10db offset. I do not enjoy listening to this system with out the eq.
You don't need to build DSP functionality into your products, but rather just allow for the integration into your products. Long live the tape loop. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237740)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237739)
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Hi Groove
The problem with that is the mic is not your ears and brain and it does not 'hear' in the way your ears and brain do (my next Newsletter discusses this subject). You are taking a pressure measurement at one point in space BUT when we listen to speakers we are listening to the 'total radiated sound power' into the room including all the 'Direct and Reflected' sound.
I agree you are the one that decided what sounds good to you but in my opinion our job is to use the extensive research that has been done over many years on how real speakers behave in real rooms and how our ear brains interpret that and based on that research my advice is not to use EQ above bass frequencies.
But hey that's my opinion many may tell me I need serious help!
james
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My advice would be to let another manufacturer invent a new product and that Bryston improve upon it to save the expense of research and development.
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Hi Groove
The problem with that is the mic is not your ears and brain and it does not 'hear' in the way your ears and brain do (my next Newsletter discusses this subject).
I totally agree with this. Single point in space measurements are practically useless, moving the mic just 2 inches proves that.
That's why I now use the "moving mic method" . Here's a good video that explains it, for anyone interested...
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=moving+mic+speaker+measurements&&view=detail&mid=1C4EC7FF5E60BCB3EE981C4EC7FF5E60BCB3EE98&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmoving%2Bmic%2Bspeaker%2Bmeasurements%26FORM%3DHDRSC3
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I would like to replace my loudspeakers analog crossover with a digital crossover. MiniDSP appears to have good software for making a good digital crossover. I am not sure how good their digital to analog converts are? Also, not sure how good their volume control is? My thought is to let MiniDSP (and others) do the software and let Bryston do the D/A and the analog volume control.
I was not thinking of DSP to improve room acoustics, but only for creating a digital crossover. Multichannel D/A is hard to find. Also, multichannel volume control is hard to find.
Dan
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We do not believe that DSP should be used above about 150Hz.
We spend countless hours trying to get excellent on and off axis even polar response on our speakers and do not want DSP screwing that up.
james
James,
Maybe there is a misunderstanding of the use of the DSP from my statement.
I was referring to the BAX-1 DSP functions for active speakers being incorporated within the AVR processor capabilities.
Again, a very flexible AVR processor (New SP5) that can be used for both 2 channel and multi-channel listening that gives options for DSP/Dirac/etc. controls or nothing for the end users. :thumb:
Luigi
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Hi Luigi
Yes we use DSP in our BAX-1 Digital crossover to control the on and off axis polar response of the speaker so in that context I am fully with you.
In fact DSP control of polar radiation or sound power of a loudspeaker can be much more precise than with passive systems. We have our own anechoic chamber in the factory and we do over 300 measurement's both Vertically and Horizontally in 360 degrees around the speaker to make sure the Sound Power is as accurate as possible. In fact there are 3 different curves for the 3 different active speakers (Model T, Middle T and Mini T) showing how precise we are in tailoring the polar response specifically to each speaker. You can not be that accurate with the marinade of 'generic' electronic crossovers available.
Its the use of DSP - room EQ across the whole frequency spectrum that I am advising against.
james
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Hi James
I did not know that Bryston has the BAX-1 Active DSP Crossover. Now I feel kind of stupid.
Guess I will ask another question. Can the BAX-1 Active DSP Crossover be used on non Bryston loudspeakers?
Dan
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Hi James
I did not know that Bryston has the BAX-1 Active DSP Crossover. Now I feel kind of stupid.
Guess I will ask another question. Can the BAX-1 Active DSP Crossover be used on non Bryston loudspeakers?
Dan
Hi Dan - no sorry for the reasons above you can not really fine tune your speaker to the degree we can if you devote the DSP software to one specific speaker.
james
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James
Thank you.
Dan
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Might Bryston consider reintroducing a microphone preamplier into its product line?
Something like the BMP-2 (or is it BMP2 ?) could be nice, but with a wee bit more gain (something more than 60dB, even if modestly so), and also with ADAT input/output connectivity for connection to audio interfaces or other recording equipment.
Just something I imagine from time to time.
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Hi James,
In todays reality perhaps a new product is too ambitious. Perhaps a series of paid options / upgrades such as ( You have a large installed base of existing power amps and the BR20 has a modular approach):
3B3, 4B3, 7B3 Digital input
BAX / BR-20 Digital Tone Controls like Tilt, Base & Treble. Even Sub Out. ( as always modest user control)
BR-20 Tape Loop
BR-20 Digital Out
BR-20 MC Input
BAX Digital Input
Model T Tweeter driver upgrade to extend upper range to well beyond 20 KHz
etc.
Great products deserve a few more options, fully funded.
Cheers
Drew
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Might Bryston consider reintroducing a microphone preamplier into its product line?
Something like the BMP-2 (or is it BMP2 ?) could be nice, but with a wee bit more gain (something more than 60dB, even if modestly so), and also with ADAT input/output connectivity for connection to audio interfaces or other recording equipment.
Just something I imagine from time to time.
I'm just one more in what I'm sure is a minority voice, but I would be very intrigued by a new mic preamp. I've been kinda on/off hoping to see one pop up on the used market somewhere, but no luck. I have zero expectation though. This is super niche and the pro market is so very different than it was a couple decades ago.
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A Bryston Integrated that:
includes USB and HDMI for audio and video (preferably 2 USB and 4 HDMI)
includes a high quality DAC
At least 5 balanced/unbalanced analog inputs
Includes streaming
In other words a single unit that can be the heart of a system.
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1. I would like to see the 6BSST 3 channel come back in cubed or next version form. I am currently using 3 PP300SSTs. Would I hear a difference in SQ?
2. How about a stealth SP? Pre Pro for 5.1 or 7.1 max with only a 4 input 1 output HDMI board, maybe optional other digital inputs , but no analogue inputs, with balanced outputs.
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( 1 ) Bda 4 with even better dac chips / 2 aes ebu inputs / Larger display window to more easily see the sampling rates as opposed to just a led
( 2 ) Bcd 4 with these new dac chips
( 3 ) Bdp 4 with 16 gb ram / intel board and not celeron / Larger display window
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Something that just came to mind as I'm starting to finally get closer to the move to adding heights is a multi-channel amplifier with at least 8 channels, basically designed with heights in mind but could just as easily be used to power all speakers in a system especially if for example a 16 channel version was offered similar to what Storm Audio and Trinnov offer. They both have 8 and 16 channel amps. They are using Class D, I'm not sure how Bryston/James feels about Class D though. Those amps are all basically delivering 200 watts @ 8 ohms per channel and 400@4 ohms.
I know Bryston used to make the 8 channel 875HT which was actually Class AB however it was only a 75 watt per channel amp. I suspect for height use only that power rating would actually be sufficient for a lot of height speakers however for more flexibility a similar version capable for say 150 watts to 200 watts per channel would be better.
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Correction to above, none of the Storm amps double down @ 4ohms and only 1 of the Trinnov amps do.
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BDA 4....
AKM AK4499EX DAC....
(https://www.hifinext.com/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/uploads/2022/04/AK4499EX.jpg.webp)
:thumb:
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BDA 4....
AKM AK4499EX DAC....
(https://www.hifinext.com/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/uploads/2022/04/AK4499EX.jpg.webp)
:thumb:
New chip, but does it matter?
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"New chip, but does it matter? GB"
yes...
(https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1103749-665e5b76-bryston-sp17.jpg)
vs...
(https://www.soundstagesimplifi.com/images/stories/equipment5/202106_bryston_0616.jpg)
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I see two different processors, and I assume the BR-20 has the latest chip. The BDA-3 has the old chip. However, it is difficult for me to believe the new chip in the BR-20 makes its D/A converter have a better sound than the old chip in the stand alone BDA-3 D/A converter. But, I may be wrong.
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On second thouht. Don’t answer this inquiry. I found out the new chip features better noise reduction. So this definitely helps the sound.
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Lower noise, lower distortion, higher damping, faster slew, does any of it matter at this point? Isn't this like saying "get the '22 Acura because it goes 5mph faster that the previous model"? Who's gonna notice it? :lol:
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Lower noise, lower distortion, higher damping, faster slew, does any of it matter at this point? Isn't this like saying "get the '22 Acura because it goes 5mph faster that the previous model"? Who's gonna notice it? :lol:
When your looking for that ‘n th’ degree of quality……..Everybody!
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A slimmer and shorter preamp aka BP-6
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A slimmer and shorter preamp aka BP-6
Hi,
A number of folks have said the analog stage of the Br20 sets new standards and have asked if we should consider just an Analog version of the BR-20 which could be much smaller?
james
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Yea that would be interesting, and maybe to match the depth of the 3B3?
Anyway, just a thought…
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.
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Maybe make the new analog pre in the form of the BP-26 then I can use my power supply.
Barry M
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'When your looking for that ‘n th’ degree of quality……..Everybody!"
^^^
+1
:thumb:
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On second thouht. Don’t answer this inquiry. I found out the new chip features better noise reduction. So this definitely helps the sound.
You mean in theory, on paper?
I thought the BR-20 had the same DAC as BDA3. Noise levels are already below human perception, have been for years.
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Hi,
A number of folks have said the analog stage of the Br20 sets new standards and have asked if we should consider just an Analog version of the BR-20 which could be much smaller?
james
Yes please, the fully balanced analog preamp with optional phono stage and a green display so I can see the volume across the room.
:green: