[taketwo]

Hi Louis,

Are they are using the same drivers? They looked identical to me but on the website the Super 3/TS3 are advertised as using 5" drivers whereas the TS33 are using 4"/4.5" drivers.

Do they sound the same? I get this feeling that the TS33 is basically a more sensitive version of the Super 3 for lower powered amps. I love my Super 3 but sometimes wish it goes lower, has more bass impact and gives out more volume. I don't know if the TS33 or Super 3 BPC can give me this.

[JLM]

Yes, all the "3" series use the same Fostex FE127E driver.  The differences as I understand are:

TS3:  Response down to 60 Hz from the very compact cabinet

Super 3:  Response down to 50 Hz with a more "filled in" midrange (from the wider baffle)

TS33:  Can be wired to run at 4, 8, or 16 ohm impedance; will handle more power/play louder;  my guess is that it will also play lower.  The impedance options help to open Omega Speakers to SET markets that mostly like higher impedances, with the notable exception of Decware which prefer lower impedance loads.

BTW the 3 BPC does everything the TS33 does but offers sound in a bipole, monopole, or dipole configuration

Louis, please help me out if I'm wrong here.

[taketwo]

Thanks for the concise reply. I don't know whether the TS33 will be a significant upgrade from the Super 3 or simpy a sideways one. The Super 3 BPC interests me but I do not know whether the extra size would suit my small room. It would be good to know the specs and see if it will go lower. Not really interested in the bipole or dipole configuration (don't have the room for it!) but from what I've read so far it sounds like the Super 3 in the monopole configuration. Maybe Louis can chime in on this.

[JLM]

If you don't need the 4 or 16 ohm options I'd vote against the TS33 as it goes away from the single point source ideals.

If you don't have the room to properly implement bipole or dipole functions the 3 BPC would be a waste (and IMO it starts looking awkward with a small driver on a large baffle.)

You've left with wondering if the Super 3 (or Super 3R) is a worthwhile upgrade from the TS3.  That is strictly a matter of your own opinion.

[taketwo]

You've left with wondering if the Super 3 (or Super 3R) is a worthwhile upgrade from the TS3.  That is strictly a matter of your own opinion.

Actually I have both speakers and for me the Super 3 was a big upgrade from the TS3. Have heard the bigger TS1 with the whizzer cone. Didn't quite impress me as much as the 3 series with the smaller driver. Guess I'm stuck with the Super 3. I wonder if anyone else other than Louis have compared the TS33 with the Super 3. But I'm also interested in what Louis has to say.

[Louis O]

Hi Taketwo,

Sorry about the late reply,

Your questions are really good.

The TS33 drivers are the same as the TS3, Super 3 and BPC. I have to make the corrections on the site. At one time Fostex was advertising the FE127Es as 5" when they are really 4.5". All the 3 series speakers use the same Fe127E.

The difference between the TS3 and the Super 3 is other than the wide front baffle is an increase in box volume. This increase in box volume plus the wide baffle lets the Super 3 go lower and have more bass. The added bass also gives the Super 3 a better and smoother balance.

The BPC is actually 2 Super 3s in one cabinet with drivers firing forward and rearward. This speaker is very versatile and can be wired in 4,8 and 16 ohms. 8 ohm using front driver only as monopole or 8 ohm biamped. This speaker has very good bass and output is enhanced with room gain too.

The TS33 is a double version of the TS3. I doubled the enclosure size of the TS3 and added an extra driver. The TS33 can be wired in 4 or 16 ohm. It can't be wired in 8 unless you close off the port and run the top driver and use the second driver as a passive radiator. Could be a fun experiment.  

The BPC does have the most bass followed by the TS33. The BPC strongest advantage is its imaging and soundstage and all the wiring advantages, great bass output and a very smooth presentation. JLM is right, you need a lot of room for them to work. I like to place mine between 4 and 6 feet away from the back wall. They are also great in the near field and I can listen to them from 5 feet away. The wide baffle in this case works 2 ways. To enhance the sound of the driver and also to prevent cancellation between the front and rear driver.

The TS33 is the most dynamic. Theoretically it won't go lower, but has much more impact and bass output in the range that it runs. In listening it sounds like it does go lower because of all of the bass output. In 4 ohm it is very sensitive and in 16 about the same as a Super 3. The imaging is pinpoint  and very precise. By adding the second driver and 3” ports versus 2” on the others the TS33 will have much more bass impact and give out more volume than the Super 3.

Many thanks JLM for your posts  too.

Thanks,
Louis

[taketwo]

Hi Louis,

Thanks for the great answers!

Your description of the TS33 has me really excited. Sounds like an upgrade to me.

[Louis O]

Hi Taketwo,

My pleasure and really happy to have so many great posts to help me out too.

Thanks again,
Louis

[sweetafton]

I am the owner of a new ZEN SE84C.  It is currently connected to a pair of Klispsh KSB 3.1's.  I originally bought these guys because I was more interested in punch than sonic clarity.  Now what I am most interested in is a quality I can only describe as "airy".  Hooked up to the ZEN, these speakers do sound great, much better than through the big 'ol black SS amp I was previously using.  I have gotten very noticable improvements using Decware's DSR interconnects and ditching my Monster cables for Cat-5e+ network cable.  

I understand the amp will continue to go through a break-in period over the next several months, but after a few days I am not hearing the airy-ness I am looking for.  They are an efficient speaker @ 94db and, like I said, sound great right now.  But they aren't quite as alive and breathing as I'd like.

I was wondering if anyone had insights on a good next step.  I REALLY like how the TS33's look, and they are specifically designed for low power amps like mine.  I've got about $1000 to spend on new gear.  Are my KSB 3.1's really designed to deliver that sense of "air" that I'm looking for?  Or, after waiting for the beak-in and possibly upgrading my source, and I going to find that these moderate Klipsch's aren't quite designed for the sonic clarity I'm looking for?

What should I do with my $1000?  Quick buy the TS33's?  Upgrade the source first?  Or, as my Dad would probably reccommend, put the money in the bank and let it collect interest?

Thanks for any help with this.

[JLM]

Sweet,

I'm not familiar with that Klipsch      , but my impression of lower priced Klipsch agrees with what you're saying (mostly a pop/rock mass market sound).

Break-in on the Decware amps, like most others can be a roller coaster affair.  I've heard most of the Decware offerings and have never had a complaint regarding lack of highs.  In fact Decware amps being low powered most users shy away from power hungry deep bass producing speakers, often opting for powered subs to help fill in.  Even then I'd consider most Decware owners I've listened with as being "bass weenies".

Often speakers that produce less bass provide a "tilted up" sound that is "off balance" in that the treble is then accentuated.  That may be what you're accustomed to or had heard from a system with Decware amps.  Strictly stated, a full or extended range driver should not exceed in super high frequencies as it's too big to reach beyond 20,000 Hz without severe beaming.  (Even the Fostex FE127E that the "3" series use starts to beam at around 8,000 Hz.)

I've heard the Omega speakers and prefer the "3" series to the warmer sound of the TS1 or TS2 although all three provide a "well balanced" sound to my ear while only rated down to roughly 55 Hz.  The laws of physics say that you can have only two of three: deep bass, small cabinet, or high efficiency.  The law of economics say big boxes cost more to build and ship, hence Louis offering mostly standmounted speakers.  Eliminating deep bass response opens the door to all SETs and using small bass reflex cabinets keeps prices down, exactly what Louis purposed in starting Omega.

In a smaller room I'd opt for the Super 3, Super 3R, or maybe the new TB (Tangbang brand driver) based dual driver speaker (I've not heard that one at all).  In a larger room I'd look at the 3 BPC or maybe the TS33.  Your SE84C prefers 4 ohm loads, hence the dual driver speakers would mate better.  Remember that your speaker budget may also have to include stands.

In any case let the amp break in and then make a road trip to audition speakers.

[Louis O]

Hi sweetafton,

Once again JLM hits it right on.

One of the reasons I made the dual driver systems in the 3 series was the Decware Zen amps. The ability to switch to 4 ohm on the TS33 or the bipoles gives you a great match with the Zen. The new speaker with the TBs can also be wired in 2 ohm and I heard that the Zen really likes this as well, but haven't tried it for myself. The new speaker (Minuet) also has great bass output and extension which was very surprising and more extension on top.

TS33s are also being sent to Nelson Pass for his new amp project. It is a custom SS 10 watt amp that is designed for single drivers. 6Moons will do a comprehensive review on it and the speakers.

Thanks again,
Louis

[sweetafton]

Thank you Jim and Louis for your replies.  I've been going mad since I got this amp thinking about all the different possibilities to make things sound better.  I'm convinced that I'll be getting a new pair of speakers, and the TS33's seem to be top on the list.  I think I knew that as soon as I saw their picture.  

If I could ask some more questions of you, Louis: you say the TS33's should be a bit louder.  I'm wondering, if the amp has to power two drivers vs. one, wouldn't the output be reduced over the single-driver speakers?  Is there some compromise of sonic quality for the extra load?  Or does the extra driver just make it sound twice as good?

Also, you said this speaker was designed with the ZEN in mind; what was it about this amp paired with the extra driver that appealed to you?

Sorry if these are bonehead questions, but I was new enough to single-driver speakers when I came across the TS33's...

[Louis O]

Hi sweetafton ,

The Zen amp is a great amp and what I like about it is it’s immediacy. The beauty of it lies in it’s simplicity.

With the Zen the TS33 would play louder. The Zen amp really likes low impedances  and in 4 ohm the amp will play louder. Getting this lower impedance is easy with the TS33. The drivers are both 8 ohm and when you wire them in parallel the system will be at 4 ohm and gaining 3 dB in output.

The extra driver also gives more dynamics, power capability and as a system they work half as hard.

The most important part of adding the second driver for the Zen was the ability to lower the impedance to 4 ohm. This makes the synergy  better.

No worries at all your questions are always welcome. This is what’s great about the forum.  

Thanks again,
Louis