Manic Moose (S2) - BDP's third major firmware release

volpone · « **Reply #1500 on:** 20 Jan 2016, 08:41 pm »

Thank you @unincognito for your detailed answers.

Quote from: unincognito on 20 Jan 2016, 06:46 pm

First our product isn't RoonReady, we are in the early stages of development for Roon support and have simply made what we are working on available to the general public.

I perfectly understand you still are in the early stage for Roon support.
This is very good from Bryston to be one of the first to support Roon via RAAT.

Quote from: unincognito

Currently the display doesn't show anything, but there API does allow for it.
Nothing will ever scroll on the display of the BDP-1 or 2, support in the micro that controls the display never had that implemented.
The button are not currently able to control roon, but there API does allow for it.

OK, so is it possible that, in a later stage, you will use Roon API to enable BDP display and buttons ? IMHO it would be positive for User Experience.

Quote from: unincognito

As for sound quality, my boss emailed me from CES (vegas show) when I first implemented the feature saying it sounded not very good. The protocol does seem to require quite a bit of bandwidth and/or frequent access to the network.

My A/B setup for my boss was a BDP-1 (juli@ card) running MPD hooked up to a BDA-2 via coax and BDP-2 (new IAD card) running Roon hooked up to the same BDA-2 via the second coax. All inter connects where Bryston made interconnects and the rest of the system was single ended rca to a B60 with a pair of Grado SR125's.

With the same song playing on both units within about second of each other and James not knowing what he was listening to otherwise. Picked the BDP-1 running MPD as his favourite each time, i would say depending on how good your system is and how critical you are that there could potentially be a pretty noticeable gap between the two.

Do you talk with RoonLabs about this gap ?
Except for more network ressources required from Roon do you identify others issues in Roon and/or RAAT technical implementation VS BDP HW/SW architecture to explain the sonic differences against MPD ? Do you plan to try to bridge the gap ?

MoPac · « **Reply #1501 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 02:50 pm »

Chris:
Does the "Maximum Playlist Length", in the Desktop/MPD screen, apply to a single playlist or is it looking at the number of tracks from all the playlists combined? How large can this number be and what effect does a larger number have?

Thanks, Rich

unincognito · « **Reply #1502 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 03:47 pm »

Quote from: MoPac on 21 Jan 2016, 02:50 pm

Chris:
Does the "Maximum Playlist Length", in the Desktop/MPD screen, apply to a single playlist or is it looking at the number of tracks from all the playlists combined? How large can this number be and what effect does a larger number have?

Thanks, Rich

It applies to just the current playlist and is a safety of sorts so the if someone tries to accidentally add 10,000 songs it doesn't bog the system down. Increasing the value depends on your control interface and what version of the firmware your using. If your running the most recent build its pretty safe to increase it to a few thousand.

unincognito · « **Reply #1503 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 03:56 pm »

I have barely touched it, currently the only thing i have done is added the ability to disable the software volume control and that has appeared to narrow the gap quite a bit. At the same time MPD also had a software volume control enabled as well (to keep things as fair as possible) and still managed to edge out roon quite noticeably. Our next firmware release, could be released as early as next Monday will contain the option to turn on/off the volume control in Roon and i'll see about getting there latest changes from roon in there as well.

Our product specialist has spoken with them, there response has been "its suppose to be bit perfect". I suspect there is some removal of bits if there isn't enough bandwidth, but to confirm this would require some packet sniffing and analyzing and my plate is quite full at the moment.

Cheers,
Chris

volpone · « **Reply #1504 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 21 Jan 2016, 03:56 pm

I have barely touched it, currently the only thing i have done is added the ability to disable the software volume control and that has appeared to narrow the gap quite a bit. At the same time MPD also had a software volume control enabled as well (to keep things as fair as possible) and still managed to edge out roon quite noticeably. Our next firmware release, could be released as early as next Monday will contain the option to turn on/off the volume control in Roon and i'll see about getting there latest changes from roon in there as well.

Thank you again Chris,
I hope some progress on the RoonLabs side. I know their "credo" is to be bitperfect and they are very confident about Bryston's excellent audio quality, so i'm a little bit disappointed if Roon sounds not as good as MPD on BDP's. But i understand it's work in progress.

Quote from: unincognito on 21 Jan 2016, 03:56 pm

Our product specialist has spoken with them, there response has been "its suppose to be bit perfect". I suspect there is some removal of bits if there isn't enough bandwidth, but to confirm this would require some packet sniffing and analyzing and my plate is quite full at the moment.

I'm using Roon on a gigabit LAN so bandwith is not an issue ... However odd if some bits are removed !
Hope good news about Roon SQ in the next Beta BDP firmware pre-releases

Last question, do you have some ETA to release official BDP "RoonReady" firmware ?

Best Regards and bravo for the works done.
Volpone.

gustavog · « **Reply #1505 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 08:05 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 21 Jan 2016, 03:56 pm

I have barely touched it, currently the only thing i have done is added the ability to disable the software volume control and that has appeared to narrow the gap quite a bit. At the same time MPD also had a software volume control enabled as well (to keep things as fair as possible) and still managed to edge out roon quite noticeably. Our next firmware release, could be released as early as next Monday will contain the option to turn on/off the volume control in Roon and i'll see about getting there latest changes from roon in there as well.

Our product specialist has spoken with them, there response has been "its suppose to be bit perfect". I suspect there is some removal of bits if there isn't enough bandwidth, but to confirm this would require some packet sniffing and analyzing and my plate is quite full at the moment.

Cheers,
Chris

After doing some A/B comparisons (I had not done them expressly before), at least on my system (and to my ears), MPD edges Roon in bass, weight and soundstage. Roon sounds a bit thin in comparison. But it is not bad at all, I would say. I have a Gigabit connection from my BDP-1 to the network. Theoretically, if it is bit perfect, should sound the same, right? If we take Roon's word on being bit perfect, what would be the reason for the difference? Timing issues?

Still, Roon is a joy to use. I hope the Roon - Bryston combination approaches the MPD quality at some point.

Krutsch · « **Reply #1506 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 08:55 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 20 Jan 2016, 06:29 pm

I'm playing some 192khz/24bit from a nas to my pc (roon server) to my BDP-1 just fine, i suspect you have a bottle neck somewhere.

I ran a long LAN cable to my BDP-1 and now I am playing 192/24 tracks without drop-outs. Works well. Thanks.

Krutsch · « **Reply #1507 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 08:56 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 20 Jan 2016, 06:32 pm

Unless you place your BDP into service mode and email me the service id I really can't tell you why it isn't working. Also the scratch drive at this point is only used to cache picture files from Tidal (assuming your using the Tidal app built into the firmware)

Thanks for fixing my scratch drive issue.

unincognito · « **Reply #1508 on:** 22 Jan 2016, 01:08 am »

Quote from: volpone on 21 Jan 2016, 05:22 pm

Thank you again Chris,
I hope some progress on the RoonLabs side. I know their "credo" is to be bitperfect and they are very confident about Bryston's excellent audio quality, so i'm a little bit disappointed if Roon sounds not as good as MPD on BDP's. But i understand it's work in progress.

I'm using Roon on a gigabit LAN so bandwith is not an issue ... However odd if some bits are removed !
Hope good news about Roon SQ in the next Beta BDP firmware pre-releases

Last question, do you have some ETA to release official BDP "RoonReady" firmware ?

Best Regards and bravo for the works done.
Volpone.

Keep in mind your network isn't the only potential bottle neck. You have from your source to the server, the server it's self, it ability to read the file, it's ability to encode the file as wav, then To the BDP, all the while making sure that everything is in sync in the event you start streaming the same content to another device. They have all lot going on, so to say your network is gigabit, simple tells us it has enough bandwidth to transmit the content between the server and the BDP, but doesn't cover the aforementioned or the availability of the network.

No ETA, I don't even think Roon has an ETA yet

unincognito · « **Reply #1509 on:** 22 Jan 2016, 01:09 am »

Quote from: Krutsch on 21 Jan 2016, 08:56 pm

Thanks for fixing my scratch drive issue.

It's not fixed fixed yet, and there was a bug

Krutsch · « **Reply #1510 on:** 22 Jan 2016, 01:11 am »

Quote from: unincognito on 22 Jan 2016, 01:09 am

It's not fixed fixed yet, and there was a bug

Oh, OK... I am looking at it now and it's saying there is a scratch drive. I disabled Roon RAAT and after awhile it appeared on its own, so I thought you had been in there.

unincognito · « **Reply #1511 on:** 22 Jan 2016, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: Krutsch on 22 Jan 2016, 01:11 am

Oh, OK... I am looking at it now and it's saying there is a scratch drive. I disabled Roon RAAT and after awhile it appeared on its own, so I thought you had been in there.

I did set a scratch drive, but the underlying issue to allow a user to set a scratch drive had a problem

volpone · « **Reply #1512 on:** 22 Jan 2016, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 22 Jan 2016, 01:08 am

Keep in mind your network isn't the only potential bottle neck. You have from your source to the server, the server it's self, it ability to read the file, it's ability to encode the file as wav, then To the BDP, all the while making sure that everything is in sync in the event you start streaming the same content to another device. They have all lot going on, so to say your network is gigabit, simple tells us it has enough bandwidth to transmit the content between the server and the BDP, but doesn't cover the aforementioned or the availability of the network.

Yes, I agree Chris.
Roon RAAT protocol and associated SDK are new and there is perhaps some possible "tweaks" from both side.
I think it is important for Bryston and even more for RoonLabs than the first available "RoonReady" network player sounds as good as concurrent solutions.
I hope you get all support and information you need from them.

Quote from: unincognito on 22 Jan 2016, 01:08 am

No ETA, I don't even think Roon has an ETA yet

Will be available when ready is a good ETA

Rod_S · « **Reply #1513 on:** 28 Jan 2016, 01:09 am »

How do I get MPD to rebuild the cover art in Artist view? I accidentally copied the cover art files the BDP creates in one of my the album folders into another album's folder and Artist view was displaying the same cover art for both. I removed the incorrect album cover files but Artist view continues to show the wrong cover. Default view is showing it correctly somehow. I went into settings a number of times and enabled reset DB but that's not working.

Rod_S · « **Reply #1514 on:** 28 Jan 2016, 01:35 am »

I just removed the offending album folder from my NAS and reset DB and the BDP is somehow still registering the album. I do see that there is now no album art showing for that album in Artist view

Rod_S · « **Reply #1515 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 11:43 pm »

So this is really pissing me off now. After I removed the album from the NAS and the BDP was still showing it I rebooted and finally the album disappeared. I then added the album back on the NAS rebooted again and the album returned but again with the wrong dang album art. The Folder.jpg in the album folder is definitely of the proper album. I noticed after the reboot that the bdp_front_44.jpg and bdp_front_250.jpg files were not being created so I created the darn things myself but still the wrong album cover shows.

Anyone know what the heck is going on?

Servingthemusic.com · « **Reply #1516 on:** 30 Jan 2016, 12:06 am »

Quote from: Rod_S on 29 Jan 2016, 11:43 pm

So this is really pissing me off now. After I removed the album from the NAS and the BDP was still showing it I rebooted and finally the album disappeared. I then added the album back on the NAS rebooted again and the album returned but again with the wrong dang album art. The Folder.jpg in the album folder is definitely of the proper album. I noticed after the reboot that the bdp_front_44.jpg and bdp_front_250.jpg files were not being created so I created the darn things myself but still the wrong album cover shows.

Anyone know what the heck is going on?

I have had this happen on various UpNP/DLAN servers. It has NOTHING to do with the hardware. You THINK you tagged it with the correct art, but I promise you the art tags are not what you think they are. When I ran into this, I retagged with XLD and it fixed it.

I could be totally off the mark, but just relaying my experience.

unincognito · « **Reply #1517 on:** 30 Jan 2016, 04:20 am »

Quote from: Rod_S on 29 Jan 2016, 11:43 pm

So this is really pissing me off now. After I removed the album from the NAS and the BDP was still showing it I rebooted and finally the album disappeared. I then added the album back on the NAS rebooted again and the album returned but again with the wrong dang album art. The Folder.jpg in the album folder is definitely of the proper album. I noticed after the reboot that the bdp_front_44.jpg and bdp_front_250.jpg files were not being created so I created the darn things myself but still the wrong album cover shows.

Anyone know what the heck is going on?

could be in your browsers cache

also depending on whats going on the BDP will grab cover art from tag data embedded in the music file

Rod_S · « **Reply #1518 on:** 30 Jan 2016, 05:20 pm »

Quote from: Servingthemusic.com on 30 Jan 2016, 12:06 am

I have had this happen on various UpNP/DLAN servers. It has NOTHING to do with the hardware. You THINK you tagged it with the correct art, but I promise you the art tags are not what you think they are. When I ran into this, I retagged with XLD and it fixed it.

I could be totally off the mark, but just relaying my experience.

What is XLD?

Rod_S · « **Reply #1519 on:** 30 Jan 2016, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 30 Jan 2016, 04:20 am

could be in your browsers cache

also depending on whats going on the BDP will grab cover art from tag data embedded in the music file

I do have it set to the use tag data over file names but I'm not sure if that has anything do to with what's going on here.

So last night I deleted the offending album, re-ripped the CD, made no mistakes this time in setting the album cover but I'm still getting the wrong cover art in MM, this is in Safari.

Interestingly though in Chrome no album art is showing. This is all on my iPad and in Artist View. In Default View however the correct album art is showing in both Safari and Chrome.

What does that indicate about what's not right in Artist View?