[Vapor Audio]

This won't be my 'Full' review, but rather impressions after 2 full days of listening.  The speakers I'm talking about are a MTMWW using all GR drivers, MTM is essentially an A/V3 in a .35cu/ft sealed chamber - WW is 2 M-165x drivers in series in a 1.35 cu/ft sealed chamber. 

A little background, and how the project stated is discussed here:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=36502.0

To summarize, I have no table saw at the moment so needed to use and modify some existing cabinets I had.  That meant compromises, I'd like to give the 2 165x drivers more volume - something like 2-2.5 cu/ft would be ideal especially if I wanted ported.  The other design key was that I'm actively crossing over between the MTM and WW at 200hz, 12db/octave right now but 18db would be better, as would probably going as low at 150hz. 

A little more background - my first attempt with GR drivers was less than a success.  I initially build a 2.5 way tower using a T2 tweeter and 2 M-165x drivers.  But my Passive Crossover Designer simulation ended up being WAY off from results actually produced which gave me a big dip from about 1200hz - 2500hz ... that and having one bad tweeter left me less than thrilled.  I had a very strong inclination to go a totally different route, but fortunately I put a little faith in Danny!

The result is this design, which took me no more than 5 minutes of listening to identify as something special.  The first album I played through my Squeezebox was the MTV Unplugged Alice in Chains - this is one of the best recorded and mixed live albums I've ever heard, plus the material is fantastic.  Compared to the Dayton RS180/RS28a MTM I had hooked up before, I immediately noticed a higher level of detail and precision.  The soundstage and imaging is simply superb, even in my rather acoustically poor room.  Acoustic guitar like that on the Alice in Chains is perfect for noticing note decay, and I heard them in a way I've never heard before. 

I listen to a wide array of music, and in about 10 hours of listening so far I've found nothing these can't do well.  Even some of the albums that 'revealing' speakers in the past had problems with, like Nine Inch Nails - All That Could Have Been Live and Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power come across without any harshness, but somehow still reproduce notes and details lost before.  I've thrown a lot of stuff at them, Peter Gabriel, Norah Jones, Depeche Mode, Paul Oakenfold, Sasha and Digweed, As I Lay Dying, Outkast, Tool, White Zombie ... and all pull me in. 

I'll post more in coming days, but I'm just too excited to keep it to myself   Thanks again to Danny for all his help along the way!

Here's my room and setup, picture taken from my seating position thanks to a 12mm lens



And a closeup of the left speak



And a quickie measurement using ARTA, gated and 1/12 octave smoothing

[BradJudy]

Very cool - I'm glad they turned out well.  That's a very nice slice of veneer you've got there too.  Very good motion without being over-the-top. 

[Voncarlos]

What technique did you use  to veneer?

[Vapor Audio]

What technique did you use  to veneer?

Haha, a lot of trial and error   

Seriously it was my first time veneering anything, and I made quite a few mistakes, but managed to make a decent looking box.  I just used Titebond for veneer, some bar clamps, and a big flat slab of wood.  After each piece was set, I trimmed it flush with a laminate flush trim bit and my router. 

The bubinga itself is killer, it has the killer wavy grain to it - plus this almost luminescent waterfall glow that goes vertically up each piece.  When the sun comes through a window it really pops.  All I did to finish it so far was sanding down to 320 grit and a coat of Honey Maple stain.  I'll probably add a few coats of tung oil over the next few months. 

[Danny Richie]

Thanks for posting your pics and feedback. They look great, and that frequency response looks great too. 

[gooberdude]

hey,

If you have Outkasts 'Aquemeni' album i've found a great 'test' for most any system.

There's a host of weird recording artifacts in throughout the album that i had not heard before really concentrating on getting the most out of my system...

On the tune 'Synthesizer', the one that starts out in a Frankenstein type lab, throughout
most of the tune is a man talking into the left mic...he's completely independent of the song itself.   For years i've enjoyed this album, but never heard that guy.    its a whispy, airy, weird sound.    There's a host of other stuff on that album in particular...thought i'd chime in since rarely do folks dig the duo with a system like yours!!

[ShinOBIWAN]

My compliments to Wharfedale on the cabinets

[Vapor Audio]

hey,

If you have Outkasts 'Aquemeni' album i've found a great 'test' for most any system.

There's a host of weird recording artifacts in throughout the album that i had not heard before really concentrating on getting the most out of my system...

On the tune 'Synthesizer', the one that starts out in a Frankenstein type lab, throughout
most of the tune is a man talking into the left mic...he's completely independent of the song itself.   For years i've enjoyed this album, but never heard that guy.    its a whispy, airy, weird sound.    There's a host of other stuff on that album in particular...thought i'd chime in since rarely do folks dig the duo with a system like yours!!

I don't have that Outkast album, thanks for the tip though.  Their stuff in general is surprisingly engaging on hifi gear, with a lot of layering of notes and effects.

Chemlab and KMFDM are fun too, if you've ever heard of them.  They're like industrial, electronic, metal.

[Sonny]

They look GREAT!!!
I'd be curious to hear the "FULL" review once they are sufficiently broken in!!!
T

[Vapor Audio]

They look GREAT!!!
I'd be curious to hear the "FULL" review once they are sufficiently broken in!!!

I've had an opportunity to really see how break-in affects sounds with these.  Most of my other projects, I didn't dedicate enough extended listening time from initial hook-up to really gauge things.  But these, I've been firmly planted on the couch in front of them since they saw their first pico-watt.  The change has been subtle, but what I notice most is on 'high' male vocals they're a bit more open after burn-in.  Initially the stage would collapse just a bit on a high loud vocal passage.  Now, the stage does still move forward a touch, but width and height doesn't change ... and the touch of edge that was there before is gone. 

These are truly amazing for the approx $600 I have in them, considering all costs.  I trusted Danny and went with Sonicaps for these, and they really do bring the tweeters to life. 

Next project is going to be building 4 channels of Greg Ball's SKA (Simple Killer Amp) GB150D modules specifically for powering these. 

[Midnite Mick]

I agree with the others.  THEY LOOK GREAT!

Mike

PS. Lets get back to some positives in this circle

[Vapor Audio]

How's this for some measurement

Just goofing around in ARTA, obviously take these with a grain of salt. 

Here's the Left side speaker magnitude vs distortion products chart



Left side distortion product absolute percentages



Right side distortion product absolute percentages



And the sub 200hz distortion percentages

[ttan98]

there seems to a dip in the midrange, can you hear it and will you correct it i.e. to level it.

[speedle]

Couldn't that dip just be a room issue?

BTW do you have any pics, graphs, etc of your previous speakers for comparison?  Pics for ideas, graphs for comparison I guess.  And those really did turn out nice, period.   

[Vapor Audio]

These latest images are distortion graphs guys, not frequency response ... look at my first post on page one for the frequence response chart.  There's no midrange dip.

BTW, room issues can CLEARLY be seen when I measure the Right side speaker at anything more than 6 inches away (look at the image of my room setup in the first post).  Measuring the left side is near perfect, measuring the right side is a roller coaster ride    Of course, it looks fine measured nearfield.

[Danny Richie]

there seems to a dip in the midrange, can you hear it and will you correct it i.e. to level it.

Keep in mind that mid-range is centered in the 300 to 500Hz range.

Hey turbo,

Do this: Get about 1 meter away and take your distortion measurements again. Take several of each order (2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th) individually and see how much variance there is between each measurement.

Then take the same distortion measurements again but with the speaker disconnected and see how high the distortion level is in comparison to ambient room noise.