X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences

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UtopiaNemo

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X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences
« on: 1 Sep 2020, 11:47 pm »
So this question pertains to the X-SLS and the X-CS specifically, but also to speakers in general: what are the aural differences between these two speakers...but also more broadly, between two speakers that use the same drivers and the same driver spacing, but have different cabinet volume?

I know the X-SLS will have a lower rolloff (ie play lower), but is that the only difference? Would the max SPL output be the same? The sensitivity? The imaging? Anything else?
« Last Edit: 3 Sep 2020, 03:43 am by UtopiaNemo »

UtopiaNemo

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Re: XLC and X-SLS differences
« Reply #1 on: 2 Sep 2020, 04:12 am »
Oh, and is the crossover the same? What is the rolloff point of the X-SLS?

oskar

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Re: XLC and X-SLS differences
« Reply #2 on: 2 Sep 2020, 05:25 pm »
Good questions. I would like to know that too.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: XLC and X-SLS differences
« Reply #3 on: 2 Sep 2020, 10:34 pm »
When you say "XLC" I presume you mean the X-SC center channel?

They should be the same sonically to the XLS, but are sealed and don't play quite as low as the X-LS do, since they're intended for the vocals in movie theater setups. They use the same tweeter and a pair of 16ohm M165 woofers running in parallel instead of a single 8ohm driver.

The X-LS MTM is similar to the X-SC but are ported and can be run as bookshelf or towers. I believe the MTMs generally can dig a little lower than their standard X-LS/X-SLS versions.

The X-Statik should have a larger soundstage vs the X-LS varieties, thanks to the OB mid woofers, but still have an overall similar tone due to using the same drivers, just more of them.

UtopiaNemo

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Re: XLC and X-SLS differences
« Reply #4 on: 3 Sep 2020, 12:09 am »
When you say "XLC" I presume you mean the X-SC center channel?

They should be the same sonically to the XLS, but are sealed and don't play quite as low as the X-LS do, since they're intended for the vocals in movie theater setups. They use the same tweeter and a pair of 16ohm M165 woofers running in parallel instead of a single 8ohm driver.

The X-LS MTM is similar to the X-SC but are ported and can be run as bookshelf or towers. I believe the MTMs generally can dig a little lower than their standard X-LS/X-SLS versions.

The X-Statik should have a larger soundstage vs the X-LS varieties, thanks to the OB mid woofers, but still have an overall similar tone due to using the same drivers, just more of them.

Thanks for the correction! XLS is an old fire alarm product made by Siemens that I recently spent months working on. I’ve corrected my post to say “X-SC”.  What do you mean the X-LS MTM can be run as bookshelf or towers?

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: X-CSand X-SLS differences
« Reply #5 on: 3 Sep 2020, 12:27 am »
Thanks for the correction! XLS is an old fire alarm product made by Siemens that I recently spent months working on. I’ve corrected my post to say “X-SC”.  What do you mean the X-LS MTM can be run as bookshelf or towers?

I mean like you can build a pair of X-SC add ports to them and stand them vertically like a pair of tall bookshelf speakers, or you can build them like the X-SLS, but with a second woofer above the tweeter.

UtopiaNemo

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Re: X-CSand X-SLS differences
« Reply #6 on: 3 Sep 2020, 12:59 am »
Okay so that’s what I’m talking about. Are there posts about these differences? Leaving aside the OB discussion (it would be my first choice, if only circumstances allowed), and ONLY talking about MTM varieties of the X boxed speakers, how does adding a port change the characteristics of these speakers?

My own knowledge on the subject is probably filled with misinformation. I know believe that generally, adding a port extends the rolloff point slightly but also creates a sharper slope. I also believe that there’s a complicated relationship between cabinet size, tuning frequency, efficiency, and responsiveness.

What I don’t know is how an X-MTM monitor differs from an X-MTM Tower(both either ported or sealed). Is it only a lower rolloff, ie more bass extension? Is there an efficiency difference? You’re essentially adding volume to the cabinet; what does this do?

Or speaking only of the port: if you add a port without changing box volume, what does that do to max output at different frequency levels? And lastly, would there be any difference in the crossovers of an X-MTM, whether it uses a port or not, or depending on whether it’s a monitor vs. tower?

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: X-CSand X-SLS differences
« Reply #7 on: 3 Sep 2020, 01:31 am »
Okay so that’s what I’m talking about. Are there posts about these differences? Leaving aside the OB discussion (it would be my first choice, if only circumstances allowed), and ONLY talking about MTM varieties of the X boxed speakers, how does adding a port change the characteristics of these speakers?

My own knowledge on the subject is probably filled with misinformation. I know believe that generally, adding a port extends the rolloff point slightly but also creates a sharper slope. I also believe that there’s a complicated relationship between cabinet size, tuning frequency, efficiency, and responsiveness.

What I don’t know is how an X-MTM monitor differs from an X-MTM Tower(both either ported or sealed). Is it only a lower rolloff, ie more bass extension? Is there an efficiency difference? You’re essentially adding volume to the cabinet; what does this do?

There probably are, but they're also probably quite old, esp since the X-SC is not current even on the website, but should be once Danny has the new website up & running.

As for the port, you pretty much explained it how i also understand it, a little better extension but with steeper roll-off.
The X-SLS Tower is able to reach down into the 50s in most cases, while the standard X-LS usually plays into the 70s before a subwoofer is needed depending on your setup. In my bedroom room, I can get to roughly 80Hz reliably, where my subwoofer takes over.

And in the case of the MTM versions, having dual woofers playing in parallel, allows them to do the same amount of work with half the effort, and should allow for a little better extension as well on the low end, but isn't too far off of the standard.

I person cant speak to overall effeciency, but having dual 16ohm woofers playing in parallel acts the same as a single 8ohm woofer, but each driver is only working half as hard, allowing for a faster, cleaner response, but
Quote

Or speaking only of the port: if you add a port without changing box volume, what does that do to max output at different frequency levels? And lastly, would there be any difference in the crossovers of an X-MTM, whether it uses a port or not, or depending on whether it’s a monitor vs. tower?

I'm also not certain about the difference beyond what we both
already understand when it comes to ports.
Far as i know, the crossover on the MTM models should still be the same as their standard counterparts since the crossover point is determined by the relationship of the tweeter to the woofer which remains the same across all models. Even looking at the NX-Studio crossover.
Iirc, the tweeter used in the X series usually plays down to 1000Hz where the woofer takes over down to 70-ish Hz, so the only differences really exist within the 3-way designs like the X-Statik and X-Voce.

mlundy57

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Re: X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences
« Reply #8 on: 4 Sep 2020, 05:09 pm »
The X-CS and X-MTM have two midwoofers instead of one in the X-LS and X-SLS. This gives the X-CS and X-MTM more weight, body, and fullness in the midrange and upper bass. It also makes the cabinets taller.

The X-LS and X-SLS are the same speaker in different cabinets. The larger cabinet and extra port in the X-SLS vs the X-LS gives the X-SLS better bass extension

The X-CS and X-MTM are the same speakers in different cabinets. The X-CS is in a sealed cabinet while the X-MTM is a larger ported cabinet. Again, better bass extension with the X-MTM vs the X-CS.

The X-MTM gives the fullest midrange and bass and plays lowest, -3dB at 40Hz without room gain. The X-CS has the same midrange as the X-MTM but doesn't play as low, -3dB at 70Hz. The X-SLS plays lower than the X-CS but not as low as the X-MTM and doesn't have as much body in the midrange as either the X-CS or X-MTM.

Is this what you are looking for?

Mike

UtopiaNemo

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Re: X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences
« Reply #9 on: 4 Sep 2020, 05:20 pm »
The X-CS and X-MTM have two midwoofers instead of one in the X-LS and X-SLS. This gives the X-CS and X-MTM more weight, body, and fullness in the midrange and upper bass. It also makes the cabinets taller.

The X-LS and X-SLS are the same speaker in different cabinets. The larger cabinet and extra port in the X-SLS vs the X-LS gives the X-SLS better bass extension

The X-CS and X-MTM are the same speakers in different cabinets. The X-CS is in a sealed cabinet while the X-MTM is a larger ported cabinet. Again, better bass extension with the X-MTM vs the X-CS.

The X-MTM gives the fullest midrange and bass and plays lowest, -3dB at 40Hz without room gain. The X-CS has the same midrange as the X-MTM but doesn't play as low, -3dB at 70Hz. The X-SLS plays lower than the X-CS but not as low as the X-MTM and doesn't have as much body in the midrange as either the X-CS or X-MTM.

Is this what you are looking for?

Mike
Pretty close to it. Just so I understand, is the X-MTM a ported floorstander or a ported monitor? And if it’s a floorstander, is there an advantage to making port(s) for the X-CS?

mlundy57

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Re: X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences
« Reply #10 on: 4 Sep 2020, 07:16 pm »
Yes, the X-MTM is a ported floorstander. You cannot simply add a port to a sealed cabinet. Ported cabinets require a larger cabinet size than a sealed cabinet using the same drivers.

You can use a subwoofer with any of these speakers

Danny Richie

Re: X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences
« Reply #11 on: 8 Sep 2020, 12:30 am »
I think Mike answered this one really well. If anything is still unclear then ask away.

Oh, I will add that the sensitivity of the X-CS and X-MTM is 91db while the single woofer X-LS and X-SLS is at 87db.

tmaslar

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Re: X-CS and X-SLS(X-MTM)differences
« Reply #12 on: 10 Sep 2020, 01:42 pm »
What does the impedance curve on the X-MTM look like?