[Delta77]

At the $2,000 mark, another DAC you may want to research would be the BorderPatrol SE-i.
No frills, or Volume control.

https://www.borderpatrol.net/dac/

[Presb4]

I have the Schiit Yaggy+ LIM and love it.

I agree with what others have said about the output stage being very important. I have a Schiit BF2/64 also and the DAC chip is the same in both the Yaggy and BF 2/64, the big difference in design is the output stage.

As I have both, I have A-B'd them and the main difference I heard right off the bat was the increased power in lower frequencies the Yaggy has. I was like wow.  

The ability to control my GR Brutes in the lower octaves was huge. The sound stage and decay in notes was better too. The tonality did not change as it is still the same chip and filters between the two DACs.

If a new Yaggy+ is a bit out of your budget at the moment, Schiit still has the Garage Sale Edition of the Yaggy going on. That gets you the New Yaggy+ chassis and newer output stage, but they are using up the older OG A1 DACs I believe. The good news is, its all upgradable after the fact if you like. They will sell you the upgraded DAC chip and or Unison USB card as parts, the DAC is modular, remove a few screws and pop out the old card and in with the new.

[Endo2112]

Mallard1

Not sure you need to spend 2K to get top performance these days, both Topping & SMSL make killer dacs for ~1Kish, I might suggest watching iiWi YouTube videos as I believe his assessments are really concise and on point. As an aside, I’m using the current ESS 9039Q2M dac chip which is spectacular if mated with a great clock and robust power supply, see if you can find a dac using it, it was 7 years of development and really shines imho.

A friend of mine who builds dacs basically says that dacs and amps are done now, concentrate on low distortion speakers and have fun!!

Cheers,

Don

[Cut-Throat]

Hello,
I am looking to purchase a DAC and would like to spend around 2K. I have been looking at the Geshelli Labs DayZee DAC with the Sparkos upgrade OP AMPS #2590.  Has anyone on here had any experience with this particular DAC and if so, what were your thoughts. I had purchased an earlier model of Geshelli DAC and it did not fit what i was looking for. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Having owned or auditioned over a dozen DACs with Pricetags well over $2 Grand, I'll give you some advice..... If you don't already own a DAC, buy a highly reviewed DAC for less than $300 or so and get familiar with it and listen to it for a few weeks..... Then if you still feel the need to part with $2 Grand for some of the mentioned DACs in this thread, make sure that you buy it with a 100% money back return policy, if it doesn't surpass your 'cheapie' DAC. This way we won't see the $2 Grand DAC on Audiogon 6 months later.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Having owned or auditioned over a dozen DACs with Pricetags well over $2 Grand, I'll give you some advice..... If you don't already own a DAC, buy a highly reviewed DAC for less than $300 or so and get familiar with it and listen to it for a few weeks..... Then if you still feel the need to part with $2 Grand for some of the mentioned DACs in this thread, make sure that you buy it with a 100% money back return policy, if it doesn't surpass your 'cheapie' DAC. This way we won't see the $2 Grand DAC on Audiogon 6 months later.

I strongly beg to differ.  I will put my Luxman DAC, the Yggy, Chord Qutest up against any $300 DAC any day.  I own some cheap DAC's and while they sound good for the price they lack in depth, sound stage, black backgrounds, resolution, detail, air and transparency.  A $300 DAC is good for a budget system but if you have revealing higher end gear you will hear the weaknesses of cheap DAC's.  Recently I went with a friend to listen to the Blue Sound Node and it sounded muddy compared to a $2500 Lumin D3.
I agree that cheap DAC's are way better than they use to be but they still can't compete with higher end DAC's. 

[Presb4]

I don't disagree with the idea of starting with a more value oriented DAC. The system as a whole will dictate much of what you will be able to hear from a higher end DAC. I have a Schiit Modi, BF2/64 and Yaggy+ LIM. I would not use the Modi any more after hearing the BF2/64, that was a huge jump in audio quality. But the jump from the BF6/64 to the Yaggy+ was not as significant.

If your looking for a first DAC that you can live with for a long time and not break the bank, the BF2/64 is in the sweet spot. For just a bit more, also take a look at the Holo Cyan 2. Its a touch softer on the edges then the BF2/64, if that is what you are looking for, IMO better for Jazz, Classical, where as the BF is maybe better for Rock n Roll and Electronic music.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

He already had a Geshelli Lab's DAC and did not care for it.  I have heard some expensive DAC's that I did not care for like the Auralic Vega (too thin and bright sounding), W4S DSDse with the Femto Clock upgrade (too grainy and bright).  But usually you get what you pay for in audio.  I have been into hi end audio for 30 years and have reviewed and owned a lot of gear and have done plenty of DAC shoot outs to know that.  Giant killer gear usually does not live up to the hype although much of AVA gear does. 

I would look for a used Yggy or a PS Audio Direct Stream as the prices are coming down on used ones.   You can include the Aqua La Voce DAC as well for used gear.  It is very analog sounding.

Mallard, without reservation, I highly recommend this AVA DVA Digital Preamp/DAC.  You can just use it as a DAC.  I did a review on it and it is one of the best sounding DAC's that I have heard under $10K period.  It bested my Luxman $6K DAC.  My review in on the Van Alstine Circle.  They have a return unit for sale for $2200.  They have a great return policy.  I would jump on it.  Plus it is made in the USA here in MN.  They have the best customer service.

https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/demo-dva-digital-preamplifier

[rollo]

Love my Aqua Formula x HD  DAC and La Diva transport. Read Harleys review.

charles

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Love my Aqua Formula x HD  DAC and La Diva transport. Read Harleys review.

charles

Yes, that is an awesome DAC.  I heard it at Sun Coast Audio in Florida that I visited just before covid hit. My favorite DAC is the Aqua La Scala.  Pair that with the LinQ and it is off the hook!  2 friends of mine own both and I am just blown away.  Even by itself the La Scala is fabulous.  However, the AVA DVA DAC is a true giant killer and is right up there with the La Scala but I prefer the La Scala. It is so analog and smooth sounding with great detail air and transparency. 

If you have never  heard these DAC's, give them a listen.

I have heard the Holo May DAC and while it is great sounding these other DAC's including the AVA sound better to my ears.

One of my friends brought over the La Scala to try in my system, and I wanted to steal it from him.

[Cut-Throat]

He already had a Geshelli Lab's DAC and did not care for it.  I have heard some expensive DAC's that I did not care for like the Auralic Vega (too thin and bright sounding), W4S DSDse with the Femto Clock upgrade (too grainy and bright).  But usually you get what you pay for in audio.  I have been into hi end audio for 30 years and have reviewed and owned a lot of gear and have done plenty of DAC shoot outs to know that.  Giant killer gear usually does not live up to the hype although much of AVA gear does. 

I would look for a used Yggy or a PS Audio Direct Stream as the prices are coming down on used ones.   You can include the Aqua La Voce DAC as well for used gear.  It is very analog sounding.

Mallard, without reservation, I highly recommend this AVA DVA Digital Preamp/DAC.  You can just use it as a DAC.  I did a review on it and it is one of the best sounding DAC's that I have heard under $10K period.  It bested my Luxman $6K DAC.  My review in on the Van Alstine Circle.  They have a return unit for sale for $2200.  They have a great return policy.  I would jump on it.  Plus it is made in the USA here in MN.  They have the best customer service.

https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/demo-dva-digital-preamplifier

You've contradicted yourself..... All I said was get a $300 highly reviewed DAC and use it as a comparison tool...... You just said a much cheaper DAC was better than anything under $10K period....... That is basically what I said, I just used smaller numbers...... I never said that a $300 DAC would beat ALL $2K DACs. But it will beat some $2K DACs..... Some are truly inferior or on par with some $300 DACs in my experience.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

You've contradicted yourself..... All I said was get a $300 highly reviewed DAC and use it as a comparison tool...... You just said a much cheaper DAC was better than anything under $10K period....... That is basically what I said, I just used smaller numbers......

My point is that there is no way that a $300 DAC can compare to a $2K DAC.  Why waste good money when you can buy a Yggy or something similar and have a DAC that may be the last DAC you own. And it will fit nicely with higher end electronics that are more revealing.  Cheap DAC's while they can sound good, usually sound digital. The Yggy does not.  At least in my system with my Pass X250 amp and BAT VK51se preamp.  Why not take advantage of the great return policies of Schiit and AVA and buy a higher end DAC?

I am done and have made my point.  Best of luck Mallard.  Please PM me if you have any questions about some of these DACs'.

[Cut-Throat]

My point is that there is no way that a $300 DAC can compare to a $2K DAC. 

Not my experience at all..... Price may be a factor, but it is not an end all...... There are great $300 DACs that sound better than SOME $2K DACs.

[WGH]

There are great $300 DACs that sound better than SOME $2K DACs.

Please don't keep this knowledge to yourself. Can you share based on personal experience?

[Nick B]

Not my experience at all..... Price may be a factor, but it is not an end all...... There are great $300 DACs that sound better than SOME $2K DACs.

It would be very helpful if you could list your equipment, cables, etc.
Thanks!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Yes, please list what $300 dollar DAC's sound better than $2K DAC's.  Please list them as I want to be enlightened. Below  is a list of the DAC's that I own, have owned, reviewed and heard at friends.

The Cheap DAC's that I have heard are the Schiit Modi 3 which I own, 3 of the Dragon fly DAC's, 2 of the IfI DAC's, the Topping E50 which I own.  The expensive dacs that I own, have owned, reviewed and heard are the Luxman DA-06 (my personal DAC), Marantz NA 11s something which had the best tone and decay with the Piano that I have ever heard.  Wish I still owned that one, Van Alstine Ultra a hybrid tube DAC that I still own, Cary Audio 200TS, Chord Qutest which my son owns, Cary SI 300.2 D integrated with a built in DAC.  These were all my personal DAC's.  DAC's that I have reviewed or tried in my system some others we did a DAC shoot out with are the Bryston BDA1 and a newer version, Chord Hugo, Bel Canto, Auralic Vega, Exophone 22 (not sure the spelling on this one) PSA Direct Stream which I should have bought over my Luxman, Holo May, T+A DSD8, a higher end Lampizator, W4S dsd se with Femto Clock upgrade, The Exogal Comet with the upgraded power supply that I wrote a review for the company, Aqua La Scala (my personal favorite) and Formula.

Keep in mind, it is all about system matching and cables.  My DAC sounds remarkably different with different usb cables.  The best with my DAC is the Wire World Starlight Platinum which took my DAC to another level of refinement.

By the way, we did a DAC shootout with a guy from IFI present and he brought a tube dac along and it was the worst sounding of the bunch.  It was also the cheapest at $500.

It helps to have higher end resolving gear.

Now I don't doubt your experience and what you heard but please give us a list of the gear you are talking about. Also list your other electronics and speakers.  I use Magnepan 1.6's with dual subs.  I am looking for a good inexpensive DAC that sounds better than the Topping E50 and Schiit Modi that I own.

[HAL]

You might look at the Topping E70V with the AKM AK4499EX DAC.  Specifically, the Filter 5 setting.

Not a fan off ESS DAC's sound, so this is a $450 alternative that sounds very good via the balanced outputs.

[mkrawcz]

You might look at the Topping E70V with the AKM AK4499EX DAC.  Specifically, the Filter 5 setting.

Not a fan off ESS DAC's sound, so this is a $450 alternative that sounds very good via the balanced outputs.

I've had 3 topping dacs die. E30, E70, and a D70 Octo. They sounded ok, but reliability with Topping is horrible. SMSL has been way more reliable for me. My go to AKM based DAC right now is the Eversolo DMP A8 which is just an amazing piece of audio gear. It does everything. I use it in my living room system with my Caladans and my ANK tube dac with my NX-Oticas.

[Endo2112]

I would bet that the AKM 4493 sounds the lesser of the newer 4499, and thus the newer ESS 9039Q2M sounds superior to their former offerings. I wouldn’t dismiss a particular chip per se’ based on old technology as you may miss out on something special, and as you know better than most a good dac is a complete sum of its parts, implementation, power supply, clock and further down the road jitter, IMD, SINAD. I’ve watched 2 reviews now of the new Gustard X 30 where the reviewers seem amazed.

Good luck Mallard, as you see the water can be quite muddy,

Don

[Mallard1]

To the fellow who asked for the gear I’m running.   It’s not to crazy.  I use a Prima Luna Dialogue HP integrated amp    My speakers are GR X-Statix with crossover upgrades and two 12 servo subs. My CD player is a Denon 800.  I am also looking for a streamer also but focusing on the Dac first.  The CD player has optical outs and just wanted to try using it as a transport. For a player that’s was only around a 1 k it’s very musical and has a great sound stage and separation    Anyhow just try to upgrade a little without breaking the bank.   

Thanks again for all the opinions.  Certainly a lot to digest

[Cut-Throat]

Yes, please list what $300 dollar DAC's sound better than $2K DAC's.  Please list them as I want to be enlightened. Below  is a list of the DAC's that I own, have owned, reviewed and heard at friends.

The Cheap DAC's that I have heard are the Schiit Modi 3 which I own, 3 of the Dragon fly DAC's, 2 of the IfI DAC's, the Topping E50 which I own.  The expensive dacs that I own, have owned, reviewed and heard are the Luxman DA-06 (my personal DAC), Marantz NA 11s something which had the best tone and decay with the Piano that I have ever heard.  Wish I still owned that one, Van Alstine Ultra a hybrid tube DAC that I still own, Cary Audio 200TS, Chord Qutest which my son owns, Cary SI 300.2 D integrated with a built in DAC.  These were all my personal DAC's.  DAC's that I have reviewed or tried in my system some others we did a DAC shoot out with are the Bryston BDA1 and a newer version, Chord Hugo, Bel Canto, Auralic Vega, Exophone 22 (not sure the spelling on this one) PSA Direct Stream which I should have bought over my Luxman, Holo May, T+A DSD8, a higher end Lampizator, W4S dsd se with Femto Clock upgrade, The Exogal Comet with the upgraded power supply that I wrote a review for the company, Aqua La Scala (my personal favorite) and Formula.

Keep in mind, it is all about system matching and cables.  My DAC sounds remarkably different with different usb cables.  The best with my DAC is the Wire World Starlight Platinum which took my DAC to another level of refinement.

By the way, we did a DAC shootout with a guy from IFI present and he brought a tube dac along and it was the worst sounding of the bunch.  It was also the cheapest at $500.

It helps to have higher end resolving gear.

Now I don't doubt your experience and what you heard but please give us a list of the gear you are talking about. Also list your other electronics and speakers.  I use Magnepan 1.6's with dual subs.  I am looking for a good inexpensive DAC that sounds better than the Topping E50 and Schiit Modi that I own.

I'll go you one better - Or maybe 1,000 times better. There are far more variables than what you've described. Some of which, you've never thought of.

First of all. I've been an Audiophile for over 50 years and have assembled a great system. I can afford any piece of gear that I want, so this is more about seeking the truth than trying to cheap out.  Here is a picture of my Audio Room.



It's mostly a SET amp and Horn System.
Briefly:
Oris Orphean Horn Speakers (115db) with Klipschorn Bass Bins
Bi-Amped with:
Korneff Clone 45 SET Monoblocks on the Oris Horns (2 watts per channel)
MiniDsp Class 'D' amps on the Bass Bins (500 watts per channel)
Don Sachs - Model II - 6SN7 Tube Pre-Amp
Boat Load of DACs - Fed by a Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer - Streaming Qobuz Mostly with a 5,000+ Library.
I make all of my Cables with High Quality components.

But, rather than me tell you what I've heard regarding cheap DACs vs. Expensive DACS.  You would nitpick my impressions and we would get nowhere. So, how about a very detailed test that involves a $10 DAC vs. a $20,000 DAC! and 105 Audiophiles?  With 26 of them picking the $10 DAC ! --- With a lot more controls than my opinion, and a lot more data as well. This test involves 4 parts and there is a lot of data.

1.) https://archimago.blogspot.com/2024/04/2024-high-end-dac-blind-listening-survey.html

2.) https://archimago.blogspot.com/2024/05/part-i-high-end-dac-blind-listening.html

3.) https://archimago.blogspot.com/2024/05/high-end-dac-blind-listening-results.html

4.) https://archimago.blogspot.com/2024/06/high-end-dac-blind-listening-results.html