AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Source Component Reviews => Topic started by: tigzstudio on 16 Sep 2010, 12:06 am
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Antelope Audio Zodiac + (evolving review)
I figure I would start a thread for this beautiful unit with some pics and early impressions. This thread will be continually updated as I have more time with the unit. I just took delivery of it today, and while it is way to early for official impressions....I did cheat and listen a little bit. On first impression sonically, I will just say it is quite amazing. But stay tuned later this week or next week when my "new pretty equipment" syndrome wears off and I have level headed and in depth impressions.
I can however speak on the build quality and looks right now, both of which are excellent. In person it is seems a bit smaller size wise than in pictures. It actually does feel like it has some heft to it even with its light weight, it feels very solid. The volume controls for both the headphone outs and the main have a nice feel to them. The headphone volume control seems to turn with more heft than the main volume. Currently, my only gripe is the small external power supply, but from what I understand there will be a beefy/higher end power supply that you can purchase in the future. The part of the power supply cord that plugs into the back of the unit has a nice metal casing that screws on securely, this is a nice touch.
Some pictures:
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/tlgstudio/Antelope%20Audio/_DSC02299.jpg)
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/tlgstudio/Antelope%20Audio/_DSC02312.jpg)
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Whether it's here, on head-fi, Computer Audiophile...I and others will be watching this with rapt interest. :)
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Yeah I figure because of the lack of solid impressions / reviews out there, it deserves to be spread around on a few different forums.
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I've had mine for almost 30 days, and have over 400 hrs on it. My review is forthcoming. Tigzstudio, make sure you put at least 100 hrs on it before serious listening. It's quite revelatory.
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Yeah I figure because of the lack of solid impressions / reviews out there, it deserves to be spread around on a few different forums.
Definitely. :)
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I'm also anxious to read your impressions.
I see what looks like a toslink cable in the photo below?
What "conduit" are you guys using toget the 1's and 0's to it? Toslink? USB? SPDIF converter? FW?
With Tranport or Computer?
Thanks
Kenreau
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I'm using USB redbook to 24/192k from my Macbook server (SSD, firewire/USB external music HD, Pure Music 1.62B1) . I compared various USB cables, too, although requires mini b at DAC end
and
I used my Weiss DAC2 as a firewire converter (to AES/EBU, into the Zodiac Plus)
and
I used glass toslink from my Atlona HD570 HDMi de-embedder for 2 channel 24/88k PCM'd SACD from my Oppo BDP-83.
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A chat from the corresponding Head-fi thread Tigz made: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/450235/really-high-end-new-dac/210#post_6931211
First brief impressions (I cheated and have been listening, couldn't resist). In short, it is sounding fantastic! Even the headphone outs on the unit itself sound great (which I wasn't really expecting)! It is like ... crystal clear, every last detail is magnified with ease....it is just there and you don't have to strain to hear any detail. The space and air is quite excellent, makes my LCD-2s sound more spacious all around (3D, 360 degrees). The imaging is also spot on....more to come later. I was told by someone who has 400 hours play time on his that it gets even better at 100 hrs and again 200 hrs burn in. Looking forward to it! Stay tuned.
Me:
It's just me kind of saying this loosely but I find I'm always a little skeptical when I see digital equipment and talk about 100-400 hours of burn-in and such. But that's just me. Maybe there's something to it.
Anyways, what I want to see here is if this nice piece falls into territory that some professional gear can, which this is: Pick the adjective of your choice: Dry, brittle, cold, sterile,clinical,analytical...if you're sound engineer that's what you want to get things down to the last iota. It may not be what you want if you're going to use it at your home for music.
Awesome imaging. Awesome spacing. Awesome resolution. Awesome everything except maybe one of those above adjectives come into play.
Obviously all of this also depends on subjective tastes, hearing, and other equipment in the food chain.
In my case, I think I have it down to either this or the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 and I'm trying to figure if the extra $1000 here really does something for me or not.
EDIT: I do know that folks like Ted. B, whose opinions I respect a lot, have described a "musical" sound and are very impressed as is the good Doctor. ;)
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I think I have a different SMPS and your ferrite looks rather big. I get some noise on the system unless I float the ground so maybe I need to find out if their is a new supply being issued. Can you take a closer pic? I'll do the same.
Keep in mind everyone, the + does not have a BNC input, just BNC word clock input.
The main volume dial is not stepped, nor a digitally controlled one; i.e. you won't be able repeat the exact volume at times. Mine skips over -10 a lot.
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Here's what amazes me a little bit:
Apparently the manufacterer's warranty is enough of a mystery that I can't find it in PDF of the manual for the product, I can't find it on their website anywhere, my Sweetwater rep. told me had to email them to find out, and several owners here aren't sure, either.
I wouldn't make a federal case out of it but that does kind of make me take pause for a moment.
I did lurk around and see that, at least for some of their clocks, they offered 1 year parts/labor.
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Last night I was testing a new version of J. River Media Center with a newly developed WASAPI [event style] mode.
This was due to some issues cropping up w/ USB DACs, as well issues on my system using a Lynx AES16-E to feed the +.
I left the system on shuffle for a while, then came back to do manual track changes (which is often when a sync/stutter problem would be introduced), and I found a nice sample of music.
I believe it was Gene Ammon's Boss Tenor album.
(http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/2007-11-12/00.jpg)
Track 1 I believe has some great low level congas in the left channel which is where the sax is. There is HUGE, probably artificial?, reverb on this, and these congas are so low level. I think the player is between hits doing some brushwork with hands. It's very revealing; a very good test piece. Also the attack on Ammons' sax is also a good thing to listen for. The sound, through headphones (JVC DX1000 - known by some to be too warm?) was very rich, but low level detail is so present.
I really dig the headphone output but I am not a headphone guru.
I wrote elsewhere about a comparison between the Matrix Mini and this DAC (you can imagine the results). My Lynx has two AES output cables, and I wish I could get another quality DAC in to play with, but there will be a local meeting in two weeks, and I'll have to ask if I can bring my DAC, then write a report.
I also have the ability to feed this through my tubes preamp, or direct to amp, but do not have identical cables to hook up to the dual inputs of the amp for quick A/B so that could be another thing to try, finding time is the problem.
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The main volume dial is not stepped, nor a digitally controlled one; i.e. you won't be able repeat the exact volume at times. Mine skips over -10 a lot.
In my course of information overload recon, I have seen this issue mentioned before abroad once or twice FWIW.
Fun impressions. I sincerely appreciate yours and some others' help on and off the boards. :)
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I think I have a different SMPS and your ferrite looks rather big. I get some noise on the system unless I float the ground so maybe I need to find out if their is a new supply being issued. Can you take a closer pic? I'll do the same.
Keep in mind everyone, the + does not have a BNC input, just BNC word clock input.
The main volume dial is not stepped, nor a digitally controlled one; i.e. you won't be able repeat the exact volume at times. Mine skips over -10 a lot.
From Lee (Locus Design/Cryoparts)
(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/files/zodiac+powersupply-1_0.jpg)
(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/files/zodiac+powersupply-2_0.jpg)
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Thanks, that's what saw that got me thinking. Same specs. but might look a bit different.
My warranty is a 2 year warranty, since I bought from Sweetwater. So, SW are adding one year to Antelope's one year.
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Thanks, that's what saw that got me thinking. Same specs. but might look a bit different.
My warranty is a 2 year warranty, since I bought from Sweetwater. So, SW are adding one year to Antelope's one year.
Yes, retailers like Sweetwater are cool like that. :)
Thanks for the info. :)
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I'm also anxious to read your impressions.
I see what looks like a toslink cable in the photo below?
What "conduit" are you guys using toget the 1's and 0's to it? Toslink? USB? SPDIF converter? FW?
With Tranport or Computer?
Thanks
Kenreau
I am currently using this:
High end win7 64 based computer -> Foobar v1.1 (wasapi) -> Saffire Pro 24 dsp (firewire) interface -> Wireworld coaxial/spdif -> Antelope Audio Zodiac+ -> Norse Audio XLR (up-occ prototype) -> Violectric v181 (headamp) / Audeze LCD-2's / KRK rp-8 g2
All my cabling is high grade custom UP-OCC - (apart from the digital cable).
I sold my nightingales but I will be getting some hifi speakers in hopefully less than a month or so as well as an amp.
But man, in regards to my impressions right now they still stand. I can't find any faults, it really shows me what my LCD-2s can do, and dare I say it....it may be the end all dac for me. Speaker based listening is also just as fantastic right now. Everything is just so balanced, throw any favorable audiophile term you want at it....you will get it in spades.
In regards to my main volume control, I am able to repeat the same levels fairly precisely until I get to really low volumes. At really low volumes it jumps numbers quite a bit on the display, however when you listen to it as you are turning it down you can tell it is going steadily/precisely lower volume. I think it may just be the display itself. I may shoot them an email asking about it. But in all without looking at the display, as you turn the knob and listen to the increase/decrease in volume it is steady and precise.
My unit came with a warranty card that states I have one year, buyer pays shipping costs if you need it repaired.
I am very excited about my new edition. Take my impressions with your grain of salt as I have only been listening to it for a day however. :) But right now my feeling is that this is truly an elite piece of gear. 6moons should be getting their review up soon as well, Srajan has heard so many DACs out there....I would love to hear his thoughts on how this compares. My guess is it will be up there with the best.
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Srajan just got his demo DAC the other day, and is breaking it in. I don't expect his review for awhile yet. I'll do my best to get something out this weekend.
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Has anyone compared the Antelope against the Tranquility DAC in USB implementation?
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Srajan just got his demo DAC the other day, and is breaking it in. I don't expect his review for awhile yet. I'll do my best to get something out this weekend.
Excellent news! 8)
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Ted
Looking forward to the Zodiac+ review. I should have one on the Wyred DAC1 when I'm back in town again.
Mark
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I like it enough that I am going to start offering it for sale, FWIW.
I think it has a decent/good headphone amp, and that the unit really shines when the balanced outs are used. Other than those two observations, I will keep my opinions to myself as it's not my place to comment any further.
Peace,
Lee
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6moons review of the Antelope Zodiac+ has been updated:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope/zodiac_2.html
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6moons review of the Antelope Zodiac+ has been updated:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope/zodiac_2.html
It's still just the preview, i.e details on the innerds, etc.
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And I am very much looking forward to your impressions of the Antelope Ted. Particularly your comparisons with the Weiss DAC2.
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It's still just the preview, i.e details on the innerds, etc.
Yes, but finally seeing the insides is a fairly big deal :D
No one has wanted to crack theirs open yet.
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Small update, I am pretty much at about 120 hours or so now on the Zodiac+....and I have to tell you it is the best DAC I have heard to date. With quality recordings it just blows my mind. Antelope really has a winner here. Review will be written at 200+ hours.
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http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope/zodiac_2.html
Updated with interior shots.
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http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope/zodiac_2.html
Updated with interior shots.
Eric, this is the same page 2 as Tigz's post, five posts earlier. Nothing has changed, and as tigz has stated, it's nice to see the innerds. Waiting for Srajan's review comments in the next week or so.
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Eric, this is the same page 2 as Tigz's post, five posts earlier. Nothing has changed, and as tigz has stated, it's nice to see the innerds. Waiting for Srajan's review comments in the next week or so.
Whoops, sorry about that.
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My review is coming after I get my custom Welborne Labs power supply for the Zodiac+.
In the mean time, found out 6moons just updated their review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope/zodiac.html
Overall it seems he has a preference for it over the Weiss DAC2.
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My review is coming after I get my custom Welborne Labs power supply for the Zodiac+.
In the mean time, found out 6moons just updated their review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope/zodiac.html
Overall it seems he has a preference for it over the Weiss DAC2.
The power supply was a big point in his review. You gotta tell us how the Welborne stacks up. BTW, I agree with about everything Srajan says, but wondered how long he broke it in. I found that 200+ hrs brought out some real heft and weight.
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I agree with you, and I will definitely include my impressions of the power supply upgrade in my review. I think that he may have evaluated the unit with possibly 100-150 hours perhaps? I agree with most of all of his impressions except for the body/weight. I find there to be nice impact/body in a variety of my setups (speakers and headphones). Overall I find it to be very well balanced and natural.
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My first post! It's quite a beautiful little Dac isn't it. I'm actually just as interested in the $1500 smaller vanilla Zodiac and how it compares to both the Zodiac+ and the Wyred4sound Dac2 as a direct to amp option.
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What's up with the "mini" B type USB 2.0 input ??? ugh. :scratch: Given their Pro Audio heritage, it would be uber cool to have a fire wire input port.
With asynchronous USB, is it preferred to come straight out from the computer with a USB cable? Or best sonic results with a usb-to-spdif converter?
Thanks
Kenreau
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What's up with the "mini" B type USB 2.0 input ??? ugh. :scratch: Given their Pro Audio heritage, it would be uber cool to have a fire wire input port.
With asynchronous USB, is it preferred to come straight out from the computer with a USB cable? Or best sonic results with a usb-to-spdif converter?
Thanks
Kenreau
Technically, it is a USB cable. Firewire also has the "mini" type.
I'd be more concerned that there is no BNC coax input, just one for the word clock.
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Technically, it is a USB cable. Firewire also has the "mini" type.
I'd be more concerned that there is no BNC coax input, just one for the word clock.
Interesting, I didn't realize there was a "mini" firewire connection. My notion is I would still prefer to use it over any USB plug and interface.
Agreed on the lack of BNC / 75ohm interface input. To go through all this s.o.t.a. digital design effort and route it through a seemingly generic spdif RCA input seems counter intuitive. Maybe the ideal 75-ohm interface isn't all its purported to be?
Kenreau
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I ran both SPDIF (rca coax) and AES/EBU (xlr) inputs on the Zodiac Plus, and although they sounded a bit better than the USB input initially (using my Weiss DAC2 as firewire to digital output interface) after the pre-requisite 200+ hours of break in the USB (mini and all) input was just as good, if not better, and that Weiss interface is no slouch. I used a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable with standard connections, and then attached a mini-b adapter I got through Lee (cryoparts). Sounded fantastic.
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I auditioned a Zodiak+ in my system this past weekend and found some interesting results. First my system:
Usher Mini Dancer II Speakers with Diamond Tweeters
Moscode 402AU Amp
Audio Research Ref 1 Preamp (on loan from a friend)
Tranquility DAC with DB Audio Labs Essential USB Cable
JPS Superconductor 3 SCs and ICs
Dedicated 20 AMP Circuits
Mac Mini Tweaked with SS Drive
Music on WD Fire Wire External Drive
A friend and I initially replaced the Tranquility with the Zodiak+ connected to the Ref 1. The music lacked dynamics and to be honest was not very good. We then tried connecting the Zodiak+ directly to the Moscode. We both felt the sound was better but did not approach the sound quality of the Tranquility. We were unable to utilize the Essential USB cable as I did not have a USB-B to Mini B adapter (one now on order). My friend had brought along two inexpensive, over the counter, USB Cables with USB-A to Mini B connectors. We decided what the hey and replaced the one usb cable from the Zodiak+ to the Moscode with the second inexpensive usb cable. The change was simply stunning! The music went from being barely listenable to being world-class! It lacked some of the weight added by the Ref 1 but the music was incredibly detailed without any midrange glare or high-end over brightness that I detest.
I plan to evaluate the Zodiak+ in my system again after receiving the adapter from CryoParts. My friend and I did not connect the Zodiak+ back into the Ref 1 with the second usb cable. I also want to evaluate the Zodiak+ connected directly into the Moscode again and make some tube changes in the Moscode. This concept is of interest as I like would to learn if I can love the music from my system and eliminate a preamp.
Ken
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Bigfish,
How many hrs had the Zodiak+ burned in? Seems like there are many reports suggesting 200 hrs to reach optimal sound? Any chance to try non-USB inputs to the Zodiak+?
BTW, I think I prefer the Zodiak spelling. Think I will stick with it for a while.
Roskoe
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Bigfish,
How many hrs had the Zodiak+ burned in? Seems like there are many reports suggesting 200 hrs to reach optimal sound? Any chance to try non-USB inputs to the Zodiak+?
BTW, I think I prefer the Zodiak spelling. Think I will stick with it for a while.
Roskoe
Sorry about the spelling! The Zodiac+ had between 160 and 180 hours on it when my friend brought it over on Sunday. I really liked it, enough to pay roughly $20.00 for the adapter to allow me to audition it again with a quality USB Cable.
I am driving the DAC with a MAC Mini and therefore fairly limited to USB unless I convert the external drive to USB to free up the fire wire port.
Ken
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Thanks Bigfish.
And I for one am going to start a "keep the K" campaign on this thread. :thumb:
-Roskoe
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I ran both SPDIF (rca coax) and AES/EBU (xlr) inputs on the Zodiac Plus, and although they sounded a bit better than the USB input initially (using my Weiss DAC2 as firewire to digital output interface) after the pre-requisite 200+ hours of break in the USB (mini and all) input was just as good, if not better, and that Weiss interface is no slouch. I used a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable with standard connections, and then attached a mini-b adapter I got through Lee (cryoparts). Sounded fantastic.
Thanks for the info. Ted, that is interesting and encouraging. Sounds like Antelope has their asynchronous USB port dialed in. I just cringe at the idea of needing to insert a usb-spdif converter pre-DAC.
Any comments on listening to the balanced xlr vs. single ended analog outputs?
Thanks
Kenreau
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Thanks for the info. Ted, that is interesting and encouraging. Sounds like Antelope has their asynchronous USB port dialed in. I just cringe at the idea of needing to insert a usb-spdif converter pre-DAC.
Any comments on listening to the balanced xlr vs. single ended analog outputs?
Thanks
Kenreau
I use balanced, and thought that sounded a bit more dynamic, but honestly both ways sound REALLY wonderful (via AES from Lynx AES16)
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I currently have it setup like this:
Computer -> GoldX firewire cable 4-6pin w/adapter -> Saffire Pro 24 DSP firewire interface -> wireworld spdif -> Zodiac+
And the sound is fantastic. I will be comparing to straight usb soon hopefully. FYI, no word yet on when my upgraded power supply will ship from Welborne Labs.
edit: Welborne Labs power supply has shipped.
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Igor Levin reports being in late beta stage on an OS panel for the Zodiac+ which, like the Weiss DAC2, will allow you to open a device window on your computer to set certain preferences for the machine. The Weiss for example allows you to select your preferred sampling rate in iTunes from anywhere of 44.1 to 192kHz in such a window (Amarra of course overrides that but that's another story).
I'll learn more as Igor sends me the beta disc or a link to a parked file but one feature he already mentioned is a reverse volume control readout where 0 = mute and 100 full blast. There obviously will be a lot more functionality embedded in that software panel. This is another sign I think that this is a serious product with serious people behind it. Igor was on the road in Holland so didn't have time to clue me in to everything this panel will do.
Re: break-in, I had about 200 hours when I penned my observations (plus whatever the European senders put on it). One of my readers told me his unit took 800 hours. Uh, sorry - if I'm supposed to break in all review loaners for that length of time, I'd never get anything done. In that case, I really have to expect the manufacturer or his agent to dispatch fully preconditioned units *and* let me know that's what's required and that's what they did. Nobody said nothing so after about 10 days of mostly non-stop action with my iMac on endless random play, I started to listen in earnest... :thumb:
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Srajan,
Thanks for that. I heard about the OS panel, too.
Yes, my email to you mentioned 200 hours, and I think 300 is more accurate. I can't honestly say I heard anything beyond 300 hours, and agree if that is the case (often is with Dan Wright's stuff, for example..my KWA150 monoblocks settled in around 600 hours..those are big caps) then they need to get you a pre-owned certified model for review. :)
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Yes, Dan made sure the KWA100 and SE arrived pre-cooked ready to eat -:)
The Zodiac+ is a very good piece. If they beef up the power supply in the Gold--that's where I suspect a high potential for advances in the body/bass/color/impact area--improve on the currently somewhat funky volume control so you get to each step you want without fail... this could become the new go-to machine. Of course at the Gold's projected price (I've heard $3.500 - $4.000 projected), we're on a different plateau again but still half of what the Weiss 202 sells for (which I haven't heard) and close to my Weiss DAC2 (€3.000 here in Europe). If they decide to send me the Zodiac Gold as a follow-up review (I hope but that's entirely up to them), it might get very sweaty around here :oops:
One thing seems very clear - Igor understands digital at a very high level. You only get this type of resolution, air and soundstage magic if timing is spot on and phase and jitter errors very low. Cynical bystanders could be turned off by the marketing lingo on his website but the fact is, his solutions work and they have to call 'em something.
In my mind I see the Zodiac front end coupled to the Wyred4Sound output stage/power supply (or equivalent). That could be the hammer. Of course others play at the $10.000 and up level of DACs and such and who knows what happens there. That simply leaves me out and where I like to focus...
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Hi Srajan,
How would you compare the Antelope to your DAC2? I've heard the Weiss Minerva (similar I'm told to the DAC2), but have never heard the Antelope. All comments appreciated!
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Srajan,
Thanks for that. I heard about the OS panel, too.
Yes, my email to you mentioned 200 hours, and I think 300 is more accurate. I can't honestly say I heard anything beyond 300 hours, and agree if that is the case (often is with Dan Wright's stuff, for example..my KWA150 monoblocks settled in around 600 hours..those are big caps) then they need to get you a pre-owned certified model for review. :)
OS panel as in, for Win & MAC OS I assume? Not exactly sure what we would need this for with regard to sample rate?
I'm using my software to dictate a set/fixed or native sample rate...
Either way, it's good to see such involvement and contribution from Antelope.
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Ericus,
The DAC2 is not similar to the Minerva, it is the same! :wink:
Srajan's website review spells out the differences pretty clearly, and I (also own the DAC2 and had the Zodiac Plus for 30 days) agree with him for the most part (aside from the Zodiac's lack of heft...I think it fills in later in break in, as stated above). The Zodiac Pluses strengths are timing, air, soundstage depth and an overall presence to the music that is quite startling (as in good). The Weiss DAC2/Minerva's strengths are its very musical organic midrange tone, it's (mostly upper) bass heft and weight, and it's ability to present average recordings in a very favorable light (no DAC in these highly resolving levels can do anything for bad recordings; you're on your own there :) ).
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Yeah, what ted_b said :green:
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Srajan:
I am curious if you evaluated the Zodiac+ with a USB Cable other than the stock cord that was supplied with the unit?
Thanks,
Ken
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Er - you did read the review, correct?
It very specifically mentions two other USB cables by name and photograph.
As for the comparison, the review also says one is forthcoming. I'm happy to answer questions but not so much if they're based on something I wrote which people can't be bothered to first read so we're all on the same page. Otherwise I'd be wasting my time, wouldn't I? :duh:
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Sorry, I reread the review last night and it sunk in that you used a WireWorld Starlight, the stock USB and a blue Furutech. After reading the review again it was too late to remove my post.
Ken
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I currently have it setup like this:
Computer -> GoldX firewire cable 4-6pin w/adapter -> Saffire Pro 24 DSP firewire interface -> wireworld spdif -> Zodiac+
And the sound is fantastic. I will be comparing to straight usb soon hopefully. FYI, no word yet on when my upgraded power supply will ship from Welborne Labs.
edit: Welborne Labs power supply has shipped.
Are you able to share any thoughts on how the Welborne Labs adds to the sound?
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Srajan:
How do the Zodiac+ compare with the wired4sound DAC sonically?
I saw that the Zodiac+ got lots of extra features missing in the W4S, but if one was to ignore them all which one do think to be a better DAC?
thx
/gabriel
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Gabriel,
This was covered pretty well in Srajan's review, you might want to check that first and then if you have questions that you have that aren't answered after reading that, post back here...
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Gabriel,
This was covered pretty well in Srajan's review, you might want to check that first and then if you have questions that you have that aren't answered after reading that, post back here...
Hi roscoeiii,
I did read the review and was not able to find the part doing sonic compare between the Zodiac+ and the Wired4Sound (saw the feature/price compare at first paragraph)
Can you please point me to the specific page/paragraph ?
I heard the Zodiac+ last week and pretty much agree with everything Srajan said in his review so I am very interested finding his opinion about sonic differences between the two
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Hmmm, maybe I was confusing it with the comparison with the Weiss (which he compares the W4S to in the W4S review).
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I no longer had the W4S DAC when the Zodiac showed up. You'll have to triangulate via the DAC2/DAC2 comments (Wyred/Weiss). If I held on to all equipment I review to accomplish ongoing comparisons of everything new against everything I've already reviewed - well, I'd run out of space. Never mind that the manufacturers would get real sour (and my wife would probably throw me out) :roll:
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And speaking of Zodiacs, the Antelope Zodiac linear power supply has been spotted in the wild and is will be available for $700 or so. I've also heard through the grapevine that the Zodiac+ sounds fantastic with the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning power supply.
The plot thickens...
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I would like to get some real reviews of upgraded power supplies for the Zodiac+ (Black Lightening, Voltikus, Paul Hynes, Welborne Labs etc.BTW, I will be testing all of my DACs (Zodiac+, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Weiss DAC202 and RWA Isabella) over the next week with both 24 and 16 bit digital music (the RWA dac only plays 16/44 files).
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Well, I sure look forward to reading about your comparisons. Please let us know what you find here, or point us to where you may be giving your impressions.
As for the power supplies, I don't think the Antelope linear supply is available yet. I believe it will come out once the Gold is released. As for the Black Lightning, to the best of my knowledge, only Vinnie at RWA and the maker of the Holistic Audio speakers have heard this combo for any significant period of time.
Heck, there's still not a whole ton on the Zodiac+ with the stock supply out on the web yet...
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I've been watching the steadily evolving DAC market and recently decided that the Antelope was probably most suited to my needs because of its switchable multiple input capability and volume control etc.... a very flexible product it appeared.
Upon first hearing the Zodiac+, I was immediately struck by its speed, transparency and clarity.... squeaky clean. Detail in abundance, loads of ambient clues and positional detail and the most impressive thing was that you could hear all the details of any instrument that you chose to focus on.... no matter how many were playing at the same time.... impressive separation. It also had a very big soundstage and bandwidth.... being extended at both ends of the spectrum with ease.
However.... although the technical aspects of the DAC are VERY impressive, I simply wasn't enjoying listening to it...? It was difficult to put your finger on what was wrong as well? It sounded almost like a large 3D sounstage with beautifully painted, but 2D cardboard cutout performers within it.... something was missing?
I read this DAC takes time to start sounding right, so I let it run with my amp turned off 24/7. At about 200 hours, the bass tightened and became more delinerated and tuneful. At 250hrs, there wasn't much change apart from becoming a little weightier across the range and more organic.... better, but not right. I had several times thought to return this DAC, as I simply wasn't enjoying listening to it. Again, trying to discern just what was wrong.... the only thing I could come up with was the DAC was just not fully forming each note.... maybe only 98% or something, but enough to subconsciously tell me something was wrong?
Then, one evening at about 300hrs+, it suddenly seemed to gel.... I enjoyed it for the very first time.... it started to sound believable and I stopped listening to gear and started listening to music again. I now have approaching 400 hours on the DAC and it seems to be getting better and better.... or maybe I'm just starting to like its presentation more...? It's a now very fine DAC IMHO.
If I had any criticism, I would still wish for a touch more flesh on the performers bones and a slightly blacker or inky background. Both of these aspects are influenced by the power supply and being a wallwart, I'm not surprised. Marcel at Antelope has suggested that for critical audiophile use or studio mastering, the Voltikus power supply is mandatory. I've ordered one, but it wont be available until mid-February.... I'm greatly looking forward to the potential impact it may have on sound quality...?
Just thought those contemplating this DAC may be interested in knowing that this thing NEED'S lots of hours to start sounding "right" and enjoyable. :thumb:
Cheers,
Mark
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Mark,
Those are my findings EXACTLY. I am an imaging freak, so the detail and image specificity out of the box won me over big time, but I soon grew to feel as you did. It's why I posted on every forum that mentioned the DAC....wait for 400hrs, please!!! I even told Srajan, but he said that as a reviewer he can't put that kind of time into it..they won't let him keep it that long, usually. He expressed a trust in what I had found, and said he wished manufacturers/distributors would break these things in if that kind of "aging" is required before we take the first sip. I mean, wine makers do it, why not audio manufacturers. :)
Let us know as soon as you feel confident you are hearing what the new Volticus PS brings to the table. It could be the tipping point.
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I heard Zodiac+ with the generic PSU and found it wanting.
I now got it with Teddy Prado PSU and I think it improved a lot in body, warmth and heft
Tracks which lacks warmth are now playing perfectly (IMHO that is)
Now if only they could find a way to get rid of USB LED blinking like crazy every time I stop the music ...
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Gabrielo,
Thanks for that. By the way, it's "Teddy Pardo" (spelled so people who are interested could google it). Can I ask, how much is the Teddy ps? Which of his ps's is it based on?
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Now if only they could find a way to get rid of USB LED blinking like crazy every time I stop the music ...
I agree.... those LED's, the "spotlight" white one and the red bar are waaay too bright. I'm guessing they were intended for unmistakable recognition in a bright studio environment? Anyway.... it would be nice to have the option to dim them a little.
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Can't say for sure what is the price as the dealer bundled it all together DAC/Pardo PSU/AMP/Speakers
The dealer personal take was that the Zodiac DAC is unsaleable with the generic PSU, which after listening to it next to MF-M1 and Ayre DAC I think he was right.
Without the PSU even the $700 MF-M1 DAC had better warmth/body (and the similarly priced Ayre was killing it in that area).
I think that with the new PSU it sounded better in every regard than Ayre (and easily bested the MF-M1)
My guess is that we are talking $300 area, but it could be anywhere from $200-$400
Best is to send an email to Teddy and inquire (teddy@teddypardo.com).
I don't know how to check what it is based on, but I will try and post few photos tomorrow.
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I agree.... those LED's, the "spotlight" white one and the red bar are waaay too bright. I'm guessing they were intended for unmistakable recognition in a bright studio environment? Anyway.... it would be nice to have the option to dim them a little.
The blinking white LED must be SW controlled as it is turned on and off based on USB status so it should be easy to change setting with FW upgrade.
It might be possible to do this using S/W running on the connected PC without flashing anything.
We should try and sign few people to get this XMAS tree mode disabled.
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Anybody try these?
http://www.shop.leddim.com/LED-Dim-Dots-24-Pack-745611.htm
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Anybody try these?
http://www.shop.leddim.com/LED-Dim-Dots-24-Pack-745611.htm
Cool.... that could be a simple option if nothing else surfaces, and it finally annoys me enough to take action....!
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41386)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41387)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41388)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41389)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41390)
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Hi guys,
Has anyone else had any experience yet with the Zodiac+ and a different power supply...? I was supposed to get my Voltikus this week, but Antelope has yet again delayed delivery.... To Sweetwater at least? I'm chomping at the bit to hear an upgraded PS...!
Having said that, the Zodiac+ has now improved to such a degree with more hours (around 500?) that I could probably live with it using the standard PS alone. This DAC just does everything so well enabling you to completely forget about gear and just enjoy the music. The Voltikus will need to be VERY good to justify its high price IMHO.
I have only found one thing I don't like about the DAC.... there's a low level, high pitched squeal that can be heard when the music is not playing. I've heard this from other bits of digital gear also, computers, satelite recievers etc. It annoys me, but can't be heard when the music is playing.... I think my ears are just quite sensitive to things like that. Anyone else noticed it? I wonder of a new PS wil reduce it...?
Cheers,
Mark
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I'm very interested in alternate power supplies for my Zodiac+ as well. I can't find information on when the Volticus may be available in the U.S. and have been holding off buying a Pardo or Wellborne hoping to only upgrade once to the Volticus. But I'm not sure how much longer I will be holding out.
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And it also ought to be pointed out that a Red Wine Audio Black Lightning battery power supply can be made for these. Not too much difference in price from the new Zodiac power supply, IIRC
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Marcel (Antelope US) is saying March 1 as of latest.
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I have only found one thing I don't like about the DAC.... there's a low level, high pitched squeal that can be heard when the music is not playing. I've heard this from other bits of digital gear also, computers, satelite recievers etc. It annoys me, but can't be heard when the music is playing.... I think my ears are just quite sensitive to things like that. Anyone else noticed it? I wonder of a new PS wil reduce it...?
Cheers,
Mark
HI Mark,
I can't hear this pitch from my Zodiac+, tried to put my ear against the speakers and still nothing.
/gabi
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I've been trying to find out the DAC chip that Antelope Audio uses in their Zodiac+ but no one seems to know. Do any of you users happen to know?
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All of the Antelope dacs utilize the BurrBrown 1792-A chip.
I have had the Zodiac+ in my system (2010 Mac Mini 4GRAM, SSD, Oyen enclosure/Hitachi 2TB FW external > Pure Music > USB > Zodiac+ > Zu Mission > Allnic TI-1500 300B integrated > Zu Ibis > Zu Soul Superfly) for some time now and feel it sounds great with the stock SMPS. May be just my imagination but I found that when I put an AC Regenerator (Monarchy Audio) in front of the SMPS things improved greatly - more transparency/bigger soundstage.
With the stock supply I'm getting more bass than with my previous DAC setup (Mac Mini > Firewire > Focusrite Saffire > SPDIF > Veloce Black Cat > Monarchy Audio NM24) so I'm in no hurry to upgrade the power supply. However, when I do it will probably be with the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning.
Spoke with Jack Caldwell at Holistic Audio (speaker manufacturer) who has has some experience with the Zodiac+. His opinion is that the Black Lightning supply will best the Antelope linear PS and most any other outboard supply currently available. I think the Red Wine unit would be great since it is price competitive with Antelopes own unit
and isolates from an AC line noise.
Regards,
Dave
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Thanks for the information on the DAC chip. I always liked the sound of Bur Brown chips. I will probably buy one when the base model Zodiac is released.
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HI Mark,
I can't hear this pitch from my Zodiac+, tried to put my ear against the speakers and still nothing.
/gabi
Hi Gabi..... yes, originally I thought the high pitch tone was coming from the unit itself, but its definitely coming from the tweeters. Of the several sources/DAC's I've had connected in this system, I've never heard this before. I'm curious to see if the Voltikus makes a difference here..? Can't hear it during playback, I just become aware of it while paused.
Latest from Sweetwater.... Voltikus ETA, Feb 28th.
Cheers,
Mark
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I spoke to a Sweetwater rep today and he told me they had one Volticus on order for delivery to the U.S. and that the price is $945 plus shipping as it's a special order. Is that what others have been expecting in terms of price? $700 has been mentioned before.
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$700 was only the price when combined with the Gold as a package. $900 was the expected price for the plus, for example.
David (rydenfan) picked up a demo broken-in Zodiac Plus and he and I will be evaluating it against our Weiss Dac2s (me for the second time, but first time with the new room, etc). Also we'll try it with the vaunted Teddy Pardo power supply and maybe one other (AC member mfg hint). :wink:
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I spoke to a Sweetwater rep today and he told me they had one Volticus on order for delivery to the U.S. and that the price is $945 plus shipping as it's a special order. Is that what others have been expecting in terms of price? $700 has been mentioned before.
That would be my Voltikus. Yes.... I was blown away by the price, but my belief is Sweetwater don't intend to keep in stock either the Gold, combo Gold or Voltikus on its own at this point.... its not really their target market and so becomes a special order. The $700 mentioned in various paces for the Voltikus is its price "only" when bought in combo with the Gold Zodiac. I personally couldn't justify spending an extra $1200 just to get a $250 saving on the Voltikus...!
Bit of a rip IMHO.... but we'll see...? :scratch:
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I was also told by Antelope that there will be some black face plate Voltikus's made available specifically for use with the plus.... but not until later in the year. The color doesn't bother me enough to make me wait.... although I would have preferred matching black.
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The Teddy Pardo Zodiac PS is $340 delivered and I believe available now. That was my second choice behind the Volticus but now understanding the correct Volticus price and delivery time for a black face unit probably reverses the choice for me. Has anyone had direct experience with the Pardo PS (or Wellborne) with the Zodiac +?
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The Teddy Pardo Zodiac PS is $340 delivered and I believe available now. That was my second choice behind the Volticus but now understanding the correct Volticus price and delivery time for a black face unit probably reverses the choice for me. Has anyone had direct experience with the Pardo PS (or Wellborne) with the Zodiac +?
Yes, gabrielo uses a Teddy Pardo (earlier in this thread including pics), and as stated above David and I have one being shipped as we type. So, yes, it's available. :) We'll report back asap.
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The other PSU to throw in the mix is the Paul Hynes - I believe Ken (aka Bigfish) got a quote around $540.
All these other options make the Volticus price look on the 'bend over and take it' side of the equation :o
Looks like you guys need to meet somewhere and do a PSU shootout, that'll help with my decision making process :D
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I'd certainly be interested in the results of that shootout if it could happen.
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All these other options make the Volticus price look on the 'bend over and take it' side of the equation :o
Yes.... us Brits have a particularly strong aversion to unnatural positions.... but Phil can tell you a lot more about that kind of thing....? :lol:
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I will send an SR3-18 if that helps you set up a shootout.
Regards
Paul
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I was able to spend 2-3 hours with David's (rydenfan) Zodiac + this past weekend. We directly compared it to a Modwright Transporter with NOS tubes. The Zodiac + was fed a digital signal via the Modwright TP's S/PDIF out via a VH Audio digital ic. While this might be less than ideal (especially since the digital input/output from both units had never been used before), it was the easiest way for us to do this comparison. The analog output ic used in both cases was the Morrow Audio MA4 XLR. The rest of the setup was my normal system (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=711) with the exception of the Parasound JC-2 preamp being temporarily replaced by an Atma-Sphere MP-1.
As for the sonics...
The Zodiac + sounded really good and in many areas bested the Modwright TP. The Antelope was better at the extremes in most ways. Bass had more authority and slam to it and highs were more detailed and crisp without being edgy and annoying. The midrange was also cleaner and clearer with more detail and separation. Imaging and sound stage were excellent, but didn't really seem like as big an improvement over the Modwright TP.
However, the Antelope wasn't as "full figured" as the Modwright TP and didn't convey the same depth of body and presence. No real shock given the wimpy PS and lack of tubes in the Antelope. I wonder how much an improved PS would help flesh out the Zodiac + and get it closer to the Modwright TP? Once David gets an upgraded PS I will hopefully get an opportunity to hear the Zodiac + again in my system.
George
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Thanks for the MWTP/Zodiac comparison George - many current/former MWTP owners are interested in the future 'upgrade' options.
Talking to Zodiac+ owners the consensus appears to be that it needs both burn in time and a better PSU in order to 'sing'.
With regard to the PSU options: the Volticus appears to me to be on the high side at close to $1000, is this based on its design/performance or gouging? It's disappointing that it's available with the Gold for $700, while this price is not extended to the + which is going to be the major seller in the Zodiac range. For this reason I welcome the option to explore third party PSU's. I know little about the Pardo's but see that the Paul Hynes units get rave reviews from other manufacturers and individual users. Consequently I would welcome a direct comparison with the Volticus and SR3-18, as Mark (owenmd) has the Volticus on the way I would encourage a direct AB comparison on behalf of the rest of us.
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I of course had the MW TP for some time, and when demoing the dozen or so DACs against my Weiss DAC2 the Zodiac Plus kept creeping back into my memory as one "that got it right" with regard to musical timing. It was always about the power supply IMO. I will be hearing the Teddy Pardo (I recommended the Pardo to him, then David worked out a longer worst-case return process so both of us could hear it at length). Many folks who have tried the Zodiac with the $340 Pardo are blown away (not sure the Hynes has been mated with the Zodiac yet). One or two other AC mfg members are getting their PS's ready, too. :wink:
I wish the PS didn't have such a proprietary locking collar connector or I'd love to use a good one with my current demo inhouse DAC, the M2Tech Young Dac, capable of 32/384 via USB. It's also an 18V PS. The Dac wasn't quiet ready on first go-round but the new boards are in and the DAC is being fitted as we speak, er type.
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Hello Ted,
The SR3-18 has been mated with the Zodiac and it works very well according to those who have tried it. It also works well with the M2Tech Young DAC. I’m shipping one out to the States for trial in around 14 days and would be pleased to let it go on tour after this trial if you want to try one.
Regards
Paul
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Also we'll try it with the vaunted Teddy Pardo power supply and maybe one other (AC member mfg hint). :wink:
Ted, what is the Teddy Pardo supply? Where does one get this?
FYI--the Volitikus is $700 if purchased with the Gold, and $995 (ish) on its own. I have a couple on order, I wish I had one now, I would send it up to you guys to compare to the TP, and the "mystery" supply.
Peace,
Lee
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Yes, gabrielo uses a Teddy Pardo (earlier in this thread including pics), and as stated above David and I have one being shipped as we type. So, yes, it's available. :) We'll report back asap.
DOH, I will look earlier in the thread... :duh: Google is my friend... :duh:
Lee
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I wonder how much an improved PS would help flesh out the Zodiac +
Hi George! I am wondering the same thing, if the Voltikus ever arrives.
Peace,
Lee
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(or Wellborne) with the Zodiac +?
I have a Welborne, I'll try it out.
Peace,
Lee
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Great. It looks like there are two upcoming Antelope Zodiac + /PS comparisons to look forward to. One will have the Volticus and the Hynes SR-3 18 with the Zodiac + under one roof and another will have the Pardo and perhaps another PS paired with the Zodiac + compared to the Weiss DAC 2.
I'm very interested in the findings as I will be looking to either the Hynes or Pardo as my PS upgrade unless the Volticus can somehow validate the very significant price difference.
BTW 6moons lists the Zodiac Gold + Volticus as an upcoming review subject
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Let's see if we can rope Vinnie at RWA to send around a Black Lightening for the Zodiac+.
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Let's see if we can rope Vinnie at RWA to send around a Black Lightening for the Zodiac+.
This is a completely different direction than the AC based supplies, if it gives a significant step change in performance when compared with the <$500 supplies then there could be a demand for it. I believe most existing, and potential owners, wouldn't be interested in the $1000+ price tag without a major improvement. I'm not trying to put cold water on the idea, just trying to be realistic on expectations - if it has potential then it would be great for someone to try it.
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IIRC, thew RWA was closer to $800, cheaper than the Antelope Voltikus PSU.
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Yes, we have a unit promised for mid March delivery. The preview is already penned but not live yet. I'm still waiting for the company's Leizer Benvenishty to answer a few questions on how, exactly, the Gold differs from the Plus (aside from the obvious items listed on the website) :icon_lol:
I no longer have the Plus of course and I know it would be interesting to compare a Plus + Voltikus to a Gold solo and see what gives. Perhaps someone else can skin that cat.
I ran the idea of a Black Lightning past Vinnie today. Only in retrospect did I realize that he makes these to order for a given voltage figure so I'd consider it unlikely he could accommodate a review request. But should he say yes, it'd be an interesting comparison I would think.
Has anyone here worked with Antelope's software panel yet for the Zodiac DACs btw?
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Srajan,
Thanks for that. I haven't seen the promised software panel yet. My buddy who bought the demo 600+ hr Zodiac Plus (and is getting the Pardo PS in the next few days) will email Marcel and ask (i don't have the owner info like s/n or I'd do it).
I know we chatted about the Plus and it's predilection to hundreds of hours of burn in, and the fact that reviewers like you can't afford that kind of time to baby sit....so has Antelope delivered a well-broken-in Gold for you? I assume the break-in is at least as bad, if not worse (bigger bolder analog stage).
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Has anyone here worked with Antelope's software panel yet for the Zodiac DACs btw?
Srajan,
Any idea if the software panel gonna work with the zodiac+ or will it be a gold only feature?
I'm still hoping to find a way to disable the white LED without resorting to stickers on a $2500 unit :=(
/gabriel
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The Gold + Voltikus haven't been delivered yet. They're promised for around March 10th. Re: break-in, we'll see whether this time the gods will smile upon that issue. If not (and if the Gold is significantly better than the Plus right outa the gate) I may just have to hang on to it for a longer time :oops:
If we discount the 384 thing which is meaningless at present; and the volume control if we use a preamp; and the remote control which in that instance we don't need; and the power supply which is optional and can also be leashed to the Plus; and the full-size USB vs the mini of the Plus which allows the 'manly' aftermarket cables... then the only difference left for the Gold is the analog output stage (which is supposed to be different) and possible parts upgrades in the otherwise identical digital circuitry (not sure about that).
I asked Antelope how the analog output stage differs and we'll see what the answer is. That alone could make a significant difference over the Plus. Adding a linear power supply (the Voltikus or one of the aftermarket options) ought to as well. The curious thing will be, how much - difference? About the moolah we already know...
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Re: the software panel, Igor was gonna email me a proto version while I still had the Plus. That didn't happen but it suggests that the panel would also work on the Plus. Before I spread rumors however, it'll be best to ask the company directly if you need to know now. I'll make sure to have an answer also in the review (but that won't post for some time or even longer depending on whether I get a virgin or cooked unit).
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You guys need to take a look at the TeddyDac made by Teddy Pardo. It's in another league, IMHO.
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FYI--The Voltikus'es (Voltiki?) cleared customs yesterday, so Antelope USA should have them shortly. Whoever has one on order should be getting them next week--I am looking forward to the arrival of mine!
Peace,
Lee
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Guys:
I would like to thank Paul Hynes for offering to send his Zodiac power supply on a U.S. Tour. I had contacted Paul a few weeks ago to determine if he had built a power supply for the Zodiac+, pricing, etc. Paul responded immediately but I held off waiting for other owners to report the impact of replacing the stock, switching power supply. Heck, this from a guy that purchased a linear power supply for a Mac Mini and could definitely hear the improvement in sound quality. Go figure!!
I hope those that receive linear power supplies for the Zodiac+ or those that have already evaluated a linear supply will post their findings.
Thanks,
Ken
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Hello Ted,
The SR3-18 has been mated with the Zodiac and it works very well according to those who have tried it. It also works well with the M2Tech Young DAC. I’m shipping one out to the States for trial in around 14 days and would be pleased to let it go on tour after this trial if you want to try one.
Regards
Paul
Paul, I would love to hear your PS for the Zodiac (and Young :) ), and would be open to help coordinate a US tour.
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Paul, I would love to hear your PS for the Zodiac (and Young :) ), and would be open to help coordinate a US tour.
Ted,
Do you have access to M2TECH Young? If so how does it compare with the Zodiac+?
The Young looks like a steal with $1500 price tag for a product doing 384/32 (I know there is no music in that format, but at list it will be able to deal with 192/24 no problem) and with M2Tech good track in the digital domain it should be a great product if they only do the analog part properly.
/gabi
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Ken,
I have never done a power supply tour before and it will be interesting to get some feedback from you guys about where you see the SR3 regarding performance. So I will have to thank you too for any feedback, good or bad.
Ted,
I will set up a lead for the Young DAC too as they have slightly different pin sizes on the DC connector. Thanks for offering some coordination help. Much appreciated as I am not very familiar with the layout of your country.
Regards
Paul
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Ted,
Do you have access to M2TECH Young? If so how does it compare with the Zodiac+?
The Young looks like a steal with $1500 price tag for a product doing 384/32 (I know there is no music in that format, but at list it will be able to deal with 192/24 no problem) and with M2Tech good track in the digital domain it should be a great product if they only do the analog part properly.
/gabi
Yes, I've had the Young here for about a month, but the first version was too unstable for release (swapping channels, lost drivers, etc). When it worked it was quite good, and I have some 24/384 converted DSD files that were sublime. It is being fitted with new boards and will be back in my possession in a week or two. I will start another thread at that time.
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Ted,
I will set up a lead for the Young DAC too as they have slightly different pin sizes on the DC connector. Thanks for offering some coordination help. Much appreciated as I am not very familiar with the layout of your country.
Regards
Paul
Thanks Paul. I will contact those who have a Plus currently (Ken/Bigfish, David/Rydenfan, Mark/Owenmd, etc.) to coordinate. Anyone on this thread who has a Zodiac Plus in the US (and wants to hear Paul's PS with it) please PM me. I'm not exactly sure where each of you live. I'm in OH, Ken in PA and David in Boston , Mass. We'll take the coordination stuff off this thread, please.
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Ted,
Do you want me to set up a thread on my Circle for the coordination of the tour then this thread can continue as the title says without commercial issues.
Regards
Paul
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Ted,
Do you want me to set up a thread on my Circle for the coordination of the tour then this thread can continue as the title says without commercial issues.
Regards
Paul
Great idea, thanks.
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I started a tour thread on Paul's circle. Please continue to discuss non-Paul Hynes PS stuff here, as well as general Zodiac DAC discussions.
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I have only found one thing I don't like about the DAC.... there's a low level, high pitched squeal that can be heard when the music is not playing. I've heard this from other bits of digital gear also, computers, satelite recievers etc. It annoys me, but can't be heard when the music is playing.... I think my ears are just quite sensitive to things like that. Anyone else noticed it? I wonder of a new PS wil reduce it...?
Cheers,
Mark
Mark,
I have had the same, but a better USB cable was the solution for me.
Kees
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Mark,
I have had the same, but a better USB cable was the solution for me.
Kees
Hi Kees,
I currently use two inputs.... balanced AES and glass Toslink. I can turn on or off either source and it makes no difference, the high pitched tone only goes away when I turn the Zodiac off. I'm hoping a better power supply will help this situation. Its one of those things that once you know its there, you always hear it.... most that listen to my system don't notice it, until I point it out.
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Mark, Is this high pitched low level noise emanating from the box, or through the signal path (i. speakers)?
Edit: oops, nevermind...I see where you responded that it definitely is tweeter-based. Sorry.
Any other Zodiac owners hear this?
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Its one of those things that once you know its there, you always hear it.... most that listen to my system don't notice it, until I point it out.
You are right ...... I thought I have the solution available but..... No
On mine Zodiac Gold with Voltikus, the same problem still exists...
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Clearly this is an issue that needs to be resolved if it's widespread, and fixed for you guys that have the problem. Until this fleshes out it puts the Zodiac on hold as a DAC candidate.
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I mention it cuz I never head it, nor does David (rydenfan) have it with his current Plus. It sounds like a grounding type issue or ac grunge.
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It's only on the right side. Left is totally still
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It's only on the right side. Left is totally still
I'd report it to Antelope. Sounds like a return to me.
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Clearly this is an issue that needs to be resolved if it's widespread, and fixed for you guys that have the problem. Until this fleshes out it puts the Zodiac on hold as a DAC candidate.
Well it might be that only younger and more "virile" audiophiles can actually hear it as not many have reported the phenomena....? :lol: :lol:
Marcel at Antelope has not heard of the issue and has asked Antelope UK to comment.
Apparently Voltikus was sent to Sweetwater yesterday...?
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I've recently bought a Z+ too, and would love to purchase an after market power supply! hopefully there is a decent one for the price of 300~400USD. :thumb:
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Well it might be that only younger and more "virile" audiophiles can actually hear it as not many have reported the phenomena....? :lol: :lol:
Marcel at Antelope has not heard of the issue and has asked Antelope UK to comment.
Apparently Voltikus was sent to Sweetwater yesterday...?
Thanks for the clarification on this, clearly explains why Ted hasn't heard it and tells me that it's a potential issue for me :thumb:
By the way - has the Pardo arrived?
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Huh? What? I can't hear you!! :D
By the way...... :finger:
David tells me the Pardo is still in transit.
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Huh? What? I can't hear you!! :D
By the way...... :finger:
David tells me the Pardo is still in transit.
If it makes it here in time, I might get to hear it in my system on Saturday. :green:
George
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If it makes it here in time, I might get to hear it in my system on Saturday. :green:
George
Hey George.... have you heard a Zodiac+ yet.... any comments...?
Mark
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Hey George.... have you heard a Zodiac+ yet.... any comments...?
Mark
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=85877.80
Towards the bottom of the page.
George
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I was able to spend 2-3 hours with David's (rydenfan) Zodiac + this past weekend. We directly compared it to a Modwright Transporter with NOS tubes. The Zodiac + was fed a digital signal via the Modwright TP's S/PDIF out via a VH Audio digital ic. While this might be less than ideal (especially since the digital input/output from both units had never been used before), it was the easiest way for us to do this comparison. The analog output ic used in both cases was the Morrow Audio MA4 XLR. The rest of the setup was my normal system (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=711) with the exception of the Parasound JC-2 preamp being temporarily replaced by an Atma-Sphere MP-1.
As for the sonics...
The Zodiac + sounded really good and in many areas bested the Modwright TP. The Antelope was better at the extremes in most ways. Bass had more authority and slam to it and highs were more detailed and crisp without being edgy and annoying. The midrange was also cleaner and clearer with more detail and separation. Imaging and sound stage were excellent, but didn't really seem like as big an improvement over the Modwright TP.
However, the Antelope wasn't as "full figured" as the Modwright TP and didn't convey the same depth of body and presence. No real shock given the wimpy PS and lack of tubes in the Antelope. I wonder how much an improved PS would help flesh out the Zodiac + and get it closer to the Modwright TP? Once David gets an upgraded PS I will hopefully get an opportunity to hear the Zodiac + again in my system.
George
Mark, here were George's comments from 2 pages back. He hasn't heard it since, but hopes that David gets the Pardo PS today so it can settle in and the combo can get over to George's this weekend. David's tracking info is messed up from Israel to US handoff so we're in the dark.
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Thanks guys.... sorry George, I missed that for some reason.... I always value your opinion.
Interesting how the Antelope is attracting interest from many of the guys that followed the MWT path.
Cheers,
Mark
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Thanks guys.... sorry George, I missed that for some reason.... I always value your opinion.
Interesting how the Antelope is attracting interest from many of the guys that followed the MWT path.
Cheers,
Mark
I just follow Ted. :lol: :lol:
The Modwright TP is a great unit and I have really enjoyed it, but I know there is better out there.
George
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I have only found one thing I don't like about the DAC.... there's a low level, high pitched squeal that can be heard when the music is not playing. I've heard this from other bits of digital gear also, computers, satelite recievers etc. It annoys me, but can't be heard when the music is playing.... I think my ears are just quite sensitive to things like that. Anyone else noticed it? I wonder of a new PS wil reduce it...?
Cheers,
Mark
Today, I switched the power supply in my HTPC. First a Seasonic X660, now a Be-Quiet L7 350 Watt. For me, this was the solution! 8)
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Today, I switched the power supply in my HTPC. First a Seasonic X660, now a Be-Quiet L7 350 Watt. For me, this was the solution! 8)
Just what I thought. Great news Kees!
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Interesting how the Antelope is attracting interest from many of the guys that followed the MWT path.
Cheers,
Mark
Actually many of us progressed from the Bolder Modified Squeezebox>ModWright Modified Transporter>Zodiac+. We are quite simply married to the convenience of streaming music and want the best sounding streaming digital we can obtain. Right now the Zodiac+ is at the top of heap. :thumb:
Ken
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Apparently Voltikus was sent to Sweetwater yesterday...?
Got mine yesterday! Breaking it in now.
Lee
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Got mine yesterday! Breaking it in now.
Lee
Come on Lee.... spill the beans on your first impressions.... some of us are chomping at the bit here...! :green:
I know it needs to run in, but I'm sure it sounds better than the wallwart straight out the box.... share please.
Cheers,
Mark
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Come on Lee.... spill the beans on your first impressions.... some of us are chomping at the bit here...! :green:
I know it needs to run in, but I'm sure it sounds better than the wallwart straight out the box.... share please.
Cheers,
Mark
Seriously, I didn't even listen to it, I hooked it up and then walked out the door. My wife has been so sick, and in the hospital the last two weeks, I don't have any time to listen right now. I'm hopeful I can log some hours this weekend.
It is a purty thing, looks killer with the Gold. :thumb: :thumb:
Peace,
Lee
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Lee - couldn't you give it a quick listen in between visits to the hospital? I mean come on man!
Just kidding - I'm not even associated with this thread - just peripherally interested in the Antelope, but allow me to say that even these rabid audiophiles, when pressed, would probably grudgingly admit that there are more important things in life than audio gear. I hope your wife is OK, take good care of her... that's what counts... and although it should only be an afterthought, it's nice to know there are some great sounds waiting when you get home.
Matt
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Thanks! :thumb:
Maybe today I can sneak over to my office and give a listen.
Peace,
Lee
Lee - couldn't you give it a quick listen in between visits to the hospital? I mean come on man!
Just kidding - I'm not even associated with this thread - just peripherally interested in the Antelope, but allow me to say that even these rabid audiophiles, when pressed, would probably grudgingly admit that there are more important things in life than audio gear. I hope your wife is OK, take good care of her... that's what counts... and although it should only be an afterthought, it's nice to know there are some great sounds waiting when you get home.
Matt
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Any power supply updates?
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No one has theirs yet except Lee. The Hynes is about 2 weeks away, and the Pardo is lost at sea somewhere (could take a month according to Pardo)! :o
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Actually, I do. I've got the Black Lightning 18V DC from Vinnie. But the Gold/Voltikus isn't quite here yet. DHL tracking # was issued today however so it's getting close. Igor answered all my questions on the Plus/Gold differences and page 2 of our preview just went live :icon_twisted:
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Srajan,
I look forward to your comparisons of the three (wallwart too) ps's, and between Gold and Plus. :thumb:
Any interest in the M2Tech Young DAC? So far my loaner is wonderful.....when stable. :(
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It's less a matter of interest and more of hours in a week. So many toys, so little time :scratch:
My schedule is crammed and plenty more things are inbound than are listed in the previews. So I'm taking rain checks all around until things thin out a bit.
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Actually, I do. I've got the Black Lightning 18V DC from Vinnie.
So.... Please, have you tried the Black Lightning with a Zodiac+ yet.... or did you primarily get it to compare to the Voltikus when your Gold combo turns up...? We are all eager to hear if a new PSU fleshes out any perceived issues of weight etc, and any other improvements over the wallwart.
Interestingly, my Zodiac+ seems to continue to change and mature. I just played some material last night that was last played at about 300hrs.... I'm now probably around 500+? There is definitely more density with less emphasis on the highs.... probably more natural sounding. One thing I love about the Zodiac is that no matter what the quality of recording is.... its still very enjoyable to listen to.... you only notice the music.
Igor answered all my questions on the Plus/Gold differences and page 2 of our preview just went live :icon_twisted:
Do you have a link we can have to this new preview Srajan...?
My Voltikus turns up tomorrow.
Cheers,
Mark
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Link to preview:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope2/1.html
And link to Black Lightning preview:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine13/1.html
Preview also seems to indicate that the Zodiac+ hasn't yet been sent back for comparison...
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So.... Please, have you tried the Black Lightning with a Zodiac+ yet.... or did you primarily get it to compare to the Voltikus when your Gold combo turns up...? We are all eager to hear if a new PSU fleshes out any perceived issues of weight etc, and any other improvements over the wallwart.
Interestingly, my Zodiac+ seems to continue to change and mature. I just played some material last night that was last played at about 300hrs.... I'm now probably around 500+? There is definitely more density with less emphasis on the highs.... probably more natural sounding. One thing I love about the Zodiac is that no matter what the quality of recording is.... its still very enjoyable to listen to.... you only notice the music.
Do you have a link we can have to this new preview Srajan...?
My Voltikus turns up tomorrow.
Cheers,
Mark
Mark,
Srajan has the Red Wine and that's it. The Gold + Volticus is on its way, and he gave back the Plus some time ago. Although Igor has offered to send it back Srajan has only implied he is gonna do the Plus vs Gold thing.
Although David (rydenfan) obtained a broken-in Plus with 500+ hours he continues to notice the same positive changes as you do...so be prepared for more I guess. :)
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Yeah, the Zodiacs take FOREVER to break in. The + is quite lightweight until 500+ hours.
The Voltikus makes a very nice difference, well worth the upcharge, at least to me. Looks killer sitting next to the Gold too. I'll try to take a pic, if I get the time.
Peace,
Lee
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Yeah, the Zodiacs take FOREVER to break in. The + is quite lightweight until 500+ hours.
The Voltikus makes a very nice difference, well worth the upcharge, at least to me. Looks killer sitting next to the Gold too. I'll try to take a pic, if I get the time.
Peace,
Lee
Thanks for the update Lee.
Understand you're busy and have other more important priorities - if you have a few minutes to spare it would be interesting if you could articulate the value of the upcharge for the Volticus in terms of sonic performance.
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Better dynamics, fuller sound. Also a bit wider and deeper... 8)
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Kees, thanks. Any change in noise floor?
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Better dynamics, fuller sound. Also a bit wider and deeper... 8)
Yes.
Also, noise floor is reduced. Bass is improved (depth and slam). Drives headphones better (the headphone amp is not half bad/pretty good in this DAC). Inner detail retrieval is improved, most likely as a result of the noise floor being lowered.
And, it looks cool! :lol:
Peace,
Lee
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Better dynamics, fuller sound. Also a bit wider and deeper... 8)
Also, noise floor is reduced. Bass is improved (depth and slam). Drives headphones better (the headphone amp is not half bad/pretty good in this DAC). Inner detail retrieval is improved, most likely as a result of the noise floor being lowered.
And, it looks cool! :lol:
Right! Noise floor significantly better.
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OK.... really busy this weekend with no time, but couldn't help listening for a few minutes last night with a brand new cold Voltikus.... so all this is premature for me. Beautiful piece of gear by the way.
Instantly, the first thing I noticed was better transparency with the ability to hear "around" the musicians better.... more 3D.
Bass was now very noticeable, but not out of place.... primarily faster, more tuneful and more extended with better bass detail.... much more "growl" and slam...! Sounded like bigger bandwidth available and more open.... speakers disappeared even more.
I think the extra transparency probably has come from a much reduced noise floor, but the bass is more than this.... probably more power and bandwidth available to form the notes more accurately. Overall a bigger fuller sound.
It normally doesn't take me long to find fault somewhere in the spectrum, but what I briefly heard last night, I couldn't fault.... just sounded great.... but give me time! :lol: Unfortunately, now I've heard what the Zodiac does with a better PS, I wouldn't be able to go back to a wallwart. :duh:
All these things are subtle.... but I wouldn't want to be without them.... I wish the magic was more economical...?
Cheers for the weekend. :thumb:
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thanks for the reply owenmd. sounds like the improvements are significant. :thumb: Although my Zodiac+ has been running well over 500hrs on my system (and i like it a lot), I still always wonder how can it sound better with an improved power supply.
Euro 795 is a lot of money, i really hope there are alternatives out there, especially when i'm getting w4s DAC2 for my other setup soon. :shake: :duh:
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Updates, anyone? Srajen? I'm very interested in further impressions of the Voltikus and any of the Zodiac Gold.
Cheers and thanks,
John
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Updates, anyone? Srajen? I'm very interested in further impressions of the Voltikus and any of the Zodiac Gold.
Cheers and thanks,
John
I haven't had much listening time recently, but I will say the addition of the Voltikus is extremely worthwhile in my system.... whether its worth the money is I guess down to the individual, the system and a personal call...? The build quality is beautiful and its a very solid piece of gear, which helps when trying to justify its price.
I haven't noticed significant change in character with burn in.... probably an increase in transparency and smoother and more relaxed after 50hrs or so. Some music sounds quite different with the Voltikus.... ahhhh.... so that's what it was meant to sound like? I think when certain aspects of the presentation are normally skipped over, the overall presentation and feeling of the music is changed when you start to hear all the nooks and crannies in all their glory...?
The "character" of the bass also sounds quite different, and I think its because you can now hear all the inflections and sub-tones involved.... I've certainly noticed subtle underlying bass rift's on music that I've never heard before.
The music generally sounds more powerful and bigger.... its almost like a change to a more powerful amplifier.
All of these comments sound a little bit radical and inflated to me, but this is what I'm hearing.... its all subtle, just so folks know.... but I definitely wouldn't want to not have it anymore.... I've been spoiled, there's no going back.
Cheers for the weekend :thumb:
Mark
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I see Sweetwater's latest advideo on the Zodiac+ uses a gold Voltikus.... in the first scene with Marcel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=108xSM0q8EA&feature=player_embedded#at=81
The video seems to start half way through for me...? Need to rewind to see the start.
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I will speak for David (rydenfan) when is say that so far the Teddy Pardo power supply is a bit of a disappointment after the first week. First, it took over 3 weeks to get to Boston from Israel, and when it showed up it was a surprise (tracking, for the most part, was broken). Second it does not include the locking collar that the Zodiac uses as a connector, thereby leaving it kinda "hanging" there...a precarious situation for a power supply that is specifically built for the Zodiac (it is named the Teddy PS Zodiac on his website). Thirdly, and most importantly, David heard what Mark is hearing on day one... :) then everything collapsed a bit. :o Since then the sound has been slightly thin, phasey, brittle and a bit aggressive. When David contacted Mr Pardo via email Teddy mentioned it could take one week to a month to break in. :( (Kinda tough for a normally short 14 day trial period, although Teddy gave us a generous 30 day for this one). I've gone so far as asking David whether the non-locking connector/pins connection could possibly be attached with the wrong electrical phase or something. David reports that things are improving slightly, but still feels the ps is a slight negative at this point!! It sells for $350, and Pardo's parts and products are well-received otherwise (although few, if any, report any break in sonic changes). Weird stuff so far.
I will likely get David's DAC to re-try (demo'd a Plus several months ago as you know) very soon, as well as the Pardo. However, I feel that the Paul Hynes and/or BPT power supplies, both headed my way in the next two weeks, will make the Pardo experience an afterthought. Maybe the Pardo is in disrepair, who knows. Stay tuned.
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Second it does not include the locking collar that the Zodiac uses as a connector, thereby leaving it kinda "hanging" there...a precarious situation for a power supply that is specifically built for the Zodiac (it is named the Teddy PS Zodiac on his website).
Hi Ted,
I got the Teddy PSU and it comes with the locking collar (you can see the pictures I uploaded at page 4 of this thread).
Hard to comment on the sonic quality as I didn't compare it with any other PSU (except for the generic PSU which was shipped with the Zodiac+).
As far as I can tell it performs well, maybe the 110V version is different from the 220V version I got
cheers
/gabriel
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Gabriel,
Yeah, I thought it looked like a locking collar (on the Antelope is what I am talking about, not just the ps). I told David to ping you.
Ted
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So, do you think the Zodiac is the best Dac under 5 grand?
What do you not like about the sound of it?
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What do you not like about the sound of it?
With the voltikus.... nothing yet...! 8)
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OK.... really busy this weekend with no time, but couldn't help listening for a few minutes last night with a brand new cold Voltikus.... so all this is premature for me. Beautiful piece of gear by the way.
Instantly, the first thing I noticed was better transparency with the ability to hear "around" the musicians better.... more 3D.
Bass was now very noticeable, but not out of place.... primarily faster, more tuneful and more extended with better bass detail.... much more "growl" and slam...! Sounded like bigger bandwidth available and more open.... speakers disappeared even more.
I think the extra transparency probably has come from a much reduced noise floor, but the bass is more than this.... probably more power and bandwidth available to form the notes more accurately. Overall a bigger fuller sound.
It normally doesn't take me long to find fault somewhere in the spectrum, but what I briefly heard last night, I couldn't fault.... just sounded great.... but give me time! :lol: Unfortunately, now I've heard what the Zodiac does with a better PS, I wouldn't be able to go back to a wallwart. :duh:
All these things are subtle.... but I wouldn't want to be without them.... I wish the magic was more economical...?
Cheers for the weekend. :thumb:
Thank you for these impressions!
Apologize for not getting more in depth on my own impressions (been busy with the new business as well as my day job). Lets just say my Zodiac+ still holds the title of champion in my eyes and to my ears. I will be purchasing a second one soon with a Voltikus (for a seperate rig) and will compare to my first Zodiac+/Welborne PSU, stay tuned!
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Tigzstudio,
Long time no post!! Please tell us how the Welborne stacked up against the stock PS? Did it break in, and what kind of improvements did you notice? What does the Welborne cost? Thx Ted
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I wish they had a more bare bones one geared towards audiophiles.Also something in a bigger chasis with a proper power supply.I just can't get over a $3000 unit with a 5 dollar wallwart power supply.
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Tigzstudio,
Long time no post!! Please tell us how the Welborne stacked up against the stock PS? Did it break in, and what kind of improvements did you notice? What does the Welborne cost? Thx Ted
I had similar impressions, but mainly I noticed the improved slam/bass weight and second to that detail seemed to jump out at you a bit more. I have had the Welborne in so long now (gotten used to it), I bet if I swap back to the walwart I would immediately notice the changes. I will do this and get back to you.
In regards to the walwart with a pricier unit, I agree it is a bit fishy. And once they came out with their own Voltikus power supply it became evident that it may have been a bit of a ploy (to make more $$?). But the bottom line is their product seriously performs and I can look past the plot and marketing because the unit sounds spectacular. :thumb:
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Once again I got a completely virgin unit so it's on my bedside table doing the dirty with the equally virgin Schiit Lyr, a Pure i-20 digital-direct dock and my usual Classic iPod with a pair of HifiMan HE-6s. Racking up 500 hours is a royal pain in the arse and I really wish manufacturers had more respect than expecting reviewers to do their dirty work for them (or complain when we don't and report on a raw component that then changes colors like a chameleon some many hundred of hours later).
Anyways, since this isn't a pair of speakers which you can't burn in without making noise, I'm running it 24/7, into an audible load during the day, into an amp not powered on during the night. It'll still take weeks and Antelope only has themselves to blame. Until then no further comments on sonics from me. It'd be premature and as such a waste :duh:
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Srajan,
Thanks for that. As I posted (via letter) to you on your 6Moons site, the Antelope Plus made huge strides once you turned yours in, over 400 hrs, and now I'm being told by many folks that 500 and 800 hours are big milestones too. :o It's crazy really.
Antelope sells the plus for $2500 retail, and the Gold for $3795. They will have a basic model that comes in under $1999 next. I agree that the Gold ought to have had some sort of Volticus-quality stock ps already included, since they clearly know the need to get beyond a simple laptop style switching ps (they are not wallwarts) in that category/level.
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I wish they had a more bare bones one geared towards audiophiles.Also something in a bigger chasis with a proper power supply.I just can't get over a $3000 unit with a 5 dollar wallwart power supply.
The other option to consider is the Burson DAC, it appears they're bringing out a DAC/Buffer in the near future - this could be an interesting option/alternative to the Zodiac. This is an avenue I'm seriously looking at for my second system, while waiting for the Zodiac/power supply combinations to unfold.
Talking to some of the manufacturers on AC, the shared view is that excellence in the digital domain (which Antelope has a core competence) is only part of the story. Having a robust approach to the power supply, and a good analog stage, are also critical factors in terms of overall performance.
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Any chance to get a group buy on Zodiac Gold plus Voltikus here at AC? This DAC looks very promising to last couple years without spending big bucks.
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If the Voltikus is as good as described above, it means it is expensive to produce. Maybe that explains why it is not included with the standard Zodiac+.
I've done some DIYing before, and high quality parts always come with a higher price tag.
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Hi Ted,
I got the Teddy PSU and it comes with the locking collar (you can see the pictures I uploaded at page 4 of this thread).
Hard to comment on the sonic quality as I didn't compare it with any other PSU (except for the generic PSU which was shipped with the Zodiac+).
As far as I can tell it performs well, maybe the 110V version is different from the 220V version I got
cheers
/gabriel
I had a chance to compare Zodiac Gold with Voltikus to my Teddy PSU for a short time.
While the differences were not night and day, they were there.
Teddy sound little bit heavy handed compare with the Voltikus.
Unlike the generic PSU coming with the Zodiac+ both PSU had full body, but with Teddy PSU the body felt over pronounced and mid was little too strong.
The Voltikus sound more natural and easy going.
/gabriel
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I had a chance to compare Zodiac Gold with Voltikus to my Teddy PSU for a short time.
While the differences were not night and day, they were there.
Teddy sound little bit heavy handed compare with the Voltikus.
Unlike the generic PSU coming with the Zodiac+ both PSU had full body, but with Teddy PSU the body felt over pronounced and mid was little too strong.
The Voltikus sound more natural and easy going.
/gabriel
Hi Gabriel,
Can you comment on any obvious perceived sonic differences between the Gold and Zodiac plus, as it sounds like you've heard both...?
Thanks,
Mark
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Hi Gabriel,
Can you comment on any obvious perceived sonic differences between the Gold and Zodiac plus, as it sounds like you've heard both...?
Thanks,
Mark
Hi Mark,
I got the Zodiac+ (with Teddy PSU) at home, but I heard the Gold in my dealer shop using another AMP/Cables/room so impossible to compare.
If I find the time I will try to come with my Zodiac+ and compare the two of them.
thx
/gabriel
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Question to all of you Zodiac owners, do you feel the the XLR output on the Zodiac is inferior to the unbalanced output or is it my subjective feeling?
I find it hard to tell for certain as XLR out has 14DB higher gain over the unbalanced output, I also don't have two identical cables with balanced and unbalanced connectors (*not even sure if such a thing exists), but I feel that XLR out is harsher than the unbalanced.
Your opinion is welcome
/gabriel
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Question to all of you Zodiac owners, do you feel the the XLR output on the Zodiac is inferior to the unbalanced output or is it my subjective feeling?
I find it hard to tell for certain as XLR out has 14DB higher gain over the unbalanced output, I also don't have two identical cables with balanced and unbalanced connectors (*not even sure if such a thing exists), but I feel that XLR out is harsher than the unbalanced.
Your opinion is welcome
/gabriel
Gabriel:
I have only used the single-ended, unbalanced outputs on my Zodiac+.
I would like to add to your question about the Zodiac+ and ask other owners:
1. What are you using to run the signal into the Zodiac+?
2. Have you tried directly connecting the Zodiac+ to your amp and if so your results?
I use an external hard drive with a fire wire connection into a Mac Mini and dB Audio Labs USB Cable to the Zodiac+. The USB Cable has a cryoed B to Mini B connector to make the connection into the Zodiac+.
Thanks,
Ken
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Win7->Foobar2K(WASAPI)->Stock USB cable->Zodiac+(Teddy PSU)->Roksan Caspian M2->Gamut Phi-5
Not using PRE functionality of the Zodiac+ .
I use unbalanced directional cable and currently trying XLR.
Before I was using unbalanced non-directional cables, but had to replace them as they were picking lots of noise (probably from a big power generator outside my window)
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Here are my set ups:
itunes + amarra > stock USB cable > Zodiac+ > unbalanced cables > threshold 10e monoblocks x 2 > M&D mini+ with omniharmonizer
itunes + amarra > stock usb cable > Zodiac+/Dac2 > unbalanced cables > threshold SA 1e monoblocks x 2 > AG Ref 3.0
I skipped the the preamp (threshold Fet HL 10/e), and it sounded better less distortions, with a bit more details, but the volume knob needs to be at around 2-3 o'clock position to output a 85db sound level.
I obtained similar results with the W4S DAC2 (volume level of 55).
both of my set ups are dead silent when i use the DAC2 or Z+ as pre-amp, with no music playing.
hope it helps.
(http://www.raylok.com/Other/room-hifi-set-up/IMG5666/1218377206_BUg8p-L.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188326_990168861535_3433417_51261798_7991925_n.jpg)
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I skipped the the preamp (threshold Fet HL 10/e), and it sounded better less distortions, with a bit more details, but the volume knob needs to be at around 2-3 o'clock position to output a 85db sound level.
I obtained similar results with the W4S DAC2 (volume level of 55).
The unbalanced output has -4db gain while the XLR has +10 db gain
not sure if that means that PRE is always working for the unbalanced or that XLR amplifies the signal somehow
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Gabrielo, I beleive you have those figures typed incorrectly. On my Zodiac Plus the RCA unbalanced has the classic "consumer" level -10dBv (which is a -7.8dBu equivalent) and the XLR is the "studio level" +4dBu (which is a 1.8dbV equivalent). The actual difference is approx 12db in sound (11.78).
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6 Moons Voltikus/Zodiac Gold preview has been updated - I won't divulge the current status, but it's an interesting read.....
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Phil,
That's the same page 3 that's been up for a few days now. I think his next step is a full review. Seems he is still holding out, likes the Volticus, but is still placing the Burson up there pretty high. :o
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Gabrielo, I beleive you have those figures typed incorrectly. On my Zodiac Plus the RCA unbalanced has the classic "consumer" level -10dBv (which is a -7.8dBu equivalent) and the XLR is the "studio level" +4dBu (which is a 1.8dbV equivalent). The actual difference is approx 12db in sound (11.78).
My bad, I mixed the gain values of XLR and unbalanced.
I didn't know that XLR and unbalanced are using different gain values as this is the first time I'm using XLR (been forced into it because of a noise issue I was trying to filter out)
What causes the different gain ? Does it mean unbalanced is tied to a PRE function or that different voltage cause this change?
thx
/gabriel
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Hi All,
I have just read the completed review of the Zodiac Gold by Srajan Ebaen, what a comprehensive and fantastic review it is, as a proud Zodiac Gold owner I am most pleased to see that Srajen gives it the thumbs up.
I am around 200 hrs short of the magic and really looking forward to clocking up the full 500 hrs:)
Srajen, would you be kind enough to try the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning 18V DC with the Gold? Thanks for the great review.
Thanks also to the good people at Antelope for producing such a great DAC.
Happy listening to you all.
Best regards.
MevDinc
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Hi All,
I have just read the completed review of the Zodiac Gold by Srajan Ebaen, what a comprehensive and fantastic review it is, as a proud Zodiac Gold owner I am most pleased to see that Srajen gives it the thumbs up.
I am around 200 hrs short of the magic and really looking forward to clocking up the full 500 hrs:)
Srajen, would you be kind enough to try the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning 18V DC with the Gold? Thanks for the great review.
Thanks also to the good people at Antelope for producing such a great DAC.
Happy listening to you all.
Best regards.
MevDinc
Welcome to AC. But, I'm confused by your question. It's in his Red Wine review right next to the Antelope review, and referred to in the Antelope review. The Antelope is what he used!
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine13/1.html
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Thanks for welcoming me Ted.
You are absolutely right, I completely missed the Red Wine review!
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Ted, Gabrielo, MevDinc
I'm considering the Zodiac Gold / Voltikus for use with my computer-based transport and am writing to get a take on how this will fit into a system that already has a (fully balanced) pre-amp. Yes, I do understand that it's possible to remove the pre-amp and will try this set-up but want to know that it'll all work with the pre-amp as previous attempts to go direct from source to amplifiers have resulted in a perceptible loss in dynamics. Is it possible to by-pass the volume control or does one just set the attenuation to "0" from the volume control? Also, I'm thinking that the unit would sit on my desk so that I can use it with head-phones but this would mean a long interconnect (around 4m ~ 12ft). I'm guessing that the unit won't have an issue driving such long interconnects but it'd be good to confirm.
Cheers, Zydeco
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The Gold will drive 4M just fine. I am using it in single ended mode (cuz that's what I ahd for my pre) to drive 6M. Balanced/XLR would be an even safer choice, and more flexible (XLR outputs have trim pots on them on rear panel).. And yes, you just dial the volume all the way to "0". That's how i had it into my pre.
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There was a long discussion in another forum I'm registered to about Zodiac+ whether is running in ASYNC mode and if it can really do 196/24 since it using MS default USB-AUdio which is capped in 96/24.
I ran protocol analyzer and Zodiac+ is reported as running in SYNC mode - not ASYNC and not even Adaptive, which can explains why I had to spend so much time disabling most features and HW to get rid of clicks and hisses.
I always blamed this on MS doing something very wrong as I assumed Zodiac+ to be running in ASYNC mode, but it seems the problem was always Zodiac code.
I checked Antelope website and there is nowhere mention of ASYNC mode
There is an icon of A|USB which I assumed means ASYNC-USB, but could mean Antelope USB as well
They do talk about "Custom implementation of the USB chip" which I assumed meant they did their own drivers, but apparently they are using native MS SYNC-USB drivers.
Srajan,
Your review of Zodiac+ says it is using custom USB driver working in ASYNC mode calling it "an asynchronous USB 2.0 Hi-Speed device", was this statement taken from your discussions with Antelope team or that you assumed this is what they meant (more below)?
The following paragraph appears on the bottom of the first page of your Zodiac+ review:
"Antelope's proprietary async USB implementation runs a buffer and field-programmable gate array to apply signal dejittering to byte-by-byte data extraction from the buffer. It runs both Windows and OS firmware for bidirectional communication protocols and special device drivers for USB 2.0 high speed. Actual data processing past establishing the data comm link with the host computer of course remains identical between different operating systems. As Igor Levin put it, "the jitter management module derives the sample rate via a DSP process that is largely insensitive to the USB packet arrival jitter. The reconstructed audio clock is acoustically pleasing and does not contain any measurable jitter products above 10Hz.""
I don't think it is possible to be insensitive to the USB packet arrival jitter without using ASYNC mode, but that's probably why Igor Levin added the dis-qualifier largely.
I guess Zodiac+ is doing a re-sampling of the data and all those statements while not a clear out lie are intentionally misleading.
/gabriel
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I guess Zodiac+ is doing a re-sampling of the data and all those statements while not a clear out lie are intentionally misleading.
/gabriel
I have no doubts there is 'intention' there. As for me, this kind of things are deal breakers. Many people want to make money quickly.
BTW, with all due respects to Srajan, who must run a competitive business. It's obvious he's is not a reliable source on sync/async implementations after the Burson HA-160D affair.
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Guys, direct questions and investigations into the details of a component's workings are perfectly fine, but please be very careful in discussing probabilities and intentions... that is a fast way to get a thread locked or pruned.
Thanks!
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I am breaking in a Zodiac Gold+Voltikus with a pair of Hifiman HE-5LE cans. The first day it sounded very closed in, but now opening up nicely. I have about 100 hours on it, so I need to break it in a lot more. I am very impressed with the tonality, very smooth.
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Ozark Tom, how capable is the headphone output for driving the HE-5LEs? Not an easy can to drive. I have a burly Little Dot Mk VI, and know some folks use speaker amps such as Virtue amps with speaker out to balanced headphone jack converters.
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Ozark Tom, how capable is the headphone output for driving the HE-5LEs? Not an easy can to drive. I have a burly Little Dot Mk VI, and know some folks use speaker amps such as Virtue amps with speaker out to balanced headphone jack converters.
The Zodiac Gold plays the 5LE's louder than I want to listen to. And at times I like to crank them loud. I have never maxed the volune out. I want to get a pair of the HE6 and try them. I have heard that is an iffy combo to drive. Maybe we will see in a couple of weeks or so.
I have a pair of the LCD2's coming in next week. The bass with the 5LE is already fantastic, LCD2 is even better?
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Look forward to hearing your comparisons. Do these LCD2s have the revised driver that they switched to this summer?
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Yes, it will be revised. I see some contrversy on the different drivers, but I feel that Audeze would never downgrade their quality. The thinner drivers should make it more revealing.
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Any more feedback on the Gold?
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I am currently using the Gold with a lot of headphones. After I get my Sensation modded, i will switch back.
The Gold is actually a fantastic Headphone amp. Has anyone reviewed it that way? It is very open and magical sounding. The Gold matches very well with the Audeze LCD2 which is what I am burning in. The volume is fairly loud at the 1 o'clock setting on the volume dial. Bass is incredible.
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The Audeze LCD2's on the Gold is a perfect match. I have never heard deeper bass coming out of cans before. When loud, the volume setting with the HE5LE is at 3 o'clock. with the LCD2's, the volume setting is at 12:30.
So if you want to blow out your ear drums, the Gold and the LCD2's will do it.
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I'm not used this type of volume controlling DAC before, so pardon my question... When connected through to an amplifier, volume can be regulated on both this Zodiac DAC and the amp? Meaning, it doesn't have that pure line output, always as a preamp?
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I now have about 750 hours on the Zodiac Gold. What is so amazing is how the soundstage height and width keeps increasing with the Audeze LCD2's every week of break-in. I am now hearing detail several feet outside the LCD2's, depending on the recording.
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I'm not used this type of volume controlling DAC before, so pardon my question... When connected through to an amplifier, volume can be regulated on both this Zodiac DAC and the amp? Meaning, it doesn't have that pure line output, always as a preamp?
No, setting the volume control to full (0 db) is bypassing the internals, and providing a straight line out. That is how I used it with a preamp.