Tyson's LineForce Build

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Tyson

Tyson's LineForce Build
« on: 16 Oct 2024, 10:47 pm »
My Background Journey
10 years ago I heard a pair of Super 7's at RMAF and soon after, I built myself a pair.  They were the best speakers I'd ever heard, for my tastes.  I was really happy with them for a long time.  I change out gear a lot, but the Super 7's stayed, they were that good.   

About 6 years ago I visited Danny to have him work on some Klipsch Forte's I owned at the time.  While I was there he let me listen to all the GR Research designs he had in house.  I really liked the NX Studios, the NX-Oticas and the NX-Tremes.  But the ones that really blew me away were a pair of LineForce planar line arrays.  They were the big brother of my Super 7's and they beat the 7's, by a lot. 

There's a big problem.  The Neo10 planar magnetic midrange drivers are no longer made.  My Super 7's have 4, but the LineForce requires 6.  Damn.


The Project Begins
A year ago, just on a lark, I stumbled across 4 Neo10's in good condition on the used market.  Holy shit!  Immediate buy!

I now had the midrange drivers needed, and I could re-use the servo subs from my 7's for the LineForce.  I reached out to Danny about the tweeters and he could supply those.  All we need is a cabinet. 

Reached out to Jay (captainhemo) to get a custom set of cabinets made.  The good news is they have the CNC plans for the cabinets still.  The bad news is Covid caused the prior composite materials to become unavailable.  So a new formula needs to be created.  This take s a long time.  Then there's a backup at the cutting shop.  Jay was great to work with and I need to give him a shoutout - without you, this whole project would not have been possible - thank you!



Subs:

OK, cabinets are done at the shop, and my subwoofer flat packs have arrived.  Let's go:




Ready to assemble.  You can see Jay does meticulous work:



Assembled:





Amp boxes too.  More first rate build quality from Jay:



Luckily I have a friend that is willing to let us use his warehouse space to do the painting.  All packed up and ready to go.  Subs are getting painted first:




At the warehouse, with my helper!  Jason (Pez) and I split the duties.  I'd spray the paint in the afternoon and he'd come in and sand the next morning.  I have a bad back, so I literally could not have done this without him. 




Equipment:




The primer we used.  Based on KTS's recommendation.  Also a big shout out to KTS, you're feedback and encouragment really helped get me through those initial stages of figuring out if I could even do this project at all. 



First layer of primer on the subs:



After the 3rd coat of primer, moving on to the main paint.  Subs are getting a slightly darker blue than the main cabinets:



Drips.  I hate drips.  Because I still sucked at painting, and the subs had a lot of very difficult crevices to get into, we had a LOT of drips.  Fixable by sanding down and re-painting.  But still a pain:



So, it took forever to finish the subs, even working ever day of the week.  Because we did 6 layers before it looked right.  And then we flipped the subs so we could do the bottoms.  Another 6 layers.  The silver lining is that by the time we finish the subs, my painting sucked less.

Safely home:



Main Cabinets


I don't have room for 4 towers in my main music area (ie, my living/dining room).  So I am customizing my cabinets.  I traced out on a sheet of MDF some bases that will let me bolt the main cabinets to the subs, when I am done.  First need to measure them:



Then glue them in:



Taped up and first layer of primer:



We only did 1 layer of primer because it's REALLY hard to see drips with the white color and the lighting we were using.  So we moved to the main blue color pretty quickly:



Some of the crevices we had to deal with:



More amp boxes.  These will actually be re-purposed as external boxes for the crossovers:



6 layers, then flip them over and do another 6 layers, sigh....




Home safe!  Note we didn't paint much in the middle part of the wing because that's where the NoRez goes.



Time to start installing the drivers.  So before I put in the subs, I have to drill out a hole to fit the speakon connector:



I try to fit the connector and it won't fit.  I made the hole too small.  I thought it was 7/8th that was needed but it's really an inch.  So I get my 1 inch drill bit and this happens:



Say it with me, class:  FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to cut it out and replace it, mostly because I'm sure I'd just fuck it up more.  So out comes the Bondo:



Time to sand it down.  It's very hard and I was able to shape it so the speakon connector could be attached:



OK, deep breath, moving on.

Installing the drivers into the main cabinet.  Uh oh.  The tweeters have gaskets on the front for mounting into a waveguide.  But my speakers have no waveguide.  The need gaskets on the back of the tweeters (which they don't have).  So I have to cut tiny slivers of gaskets to attache to both sides of each tweeter before mounting them:



Most drivers installed:



Crossover parts gathered and the box they will go in:



I'm using hot glue to hold the parts down, but I don't want to damage my Miflex capacitor with it's paper material.  So I wrap the whole cap in zip ties so the glue only touches the plastic of the ties.  And this can be reversed in the future if I need to:



Crossover done:



I mounted the crossover box underneath the subwoofer amp box:



Measuring and cutting all the wiring.  I wanted this to be really precise from driver to driver so I measured and cut each piece to the millimeter to get it exactly long enough.  Tedious but worth it:


Installed:



Main cabinets bolted to subwoofer box:



And done!:


HAL

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #1 on: 16 Oct 2024, 11:19 pm »
Tyson,

Congratulations on your Line Force speakers and servo subs!

Heard them in 2015 at Danny's!  Even got to try my hand at doing a dspMusik 2/8 crossover for them with measurements.

Had to build line arrays after that! :)

Huskerbryce

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #2 on: 16 Oct 2024, 11:58 pm »
AWESOME.   If GR ever figures out a replacement for the Neo 10 I would be fast to build these and have them as my reference speakers.  I wanted to build them before I built my oticas but when I found out BG no longer made the Neo 10 I was heart broken.  😭😂.  Maybe someday soon I will pay you a visit Tyson and we can Jam!

WGH

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #3 on: 17 Oct 2024, 12:08 am »
Your house is on my bucket list  :lol:

Delta77

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #4 on: 17 Oct 2024, 12:25 am »
They look tremendous from here..
Congratulations

jmimac351

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #5 on: 17 Oct 2024, 12:42 am »
AWESOME.   If GR ever figures out a replacement for the Neo 10 I would be fast to build these and have them as my reference speakers.  I wanted to build them before I built my oticas but when I found out BG no longer made the Neo 10 I was heart broken.  😭😂.  Maybe someday soon I will pay you a visit Tyson and we can Jam!

LMK... I'll bring duct tape and rope.  Then you and I can figure out who gets what.

corndog71

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #6 on: 17 Oct 2024, 01:14 am »
Well that’s an interesting twist.  Do they sound as good as you remembered?  That window on the right can’t be helpful.

KTS

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #7 on: 17 Oct 2024, 01:40 am »
Congratulations Tyson! Well done! It always sound/feels better when you put in the sweat equity, or at least that has been my experience. Looking forward to hearing your listening impressions once they settle in, it will be a bit with the components you are using.

Jaytor

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #8 on: 17 Oct 2024, 01:50 am »
Congrats Tyson. You’re going to love them!

soundofrockets

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #9 on: 17 Oct 2024, 01:58 am »
Congrats Tyson - nicely done.

Sound?
Crossover components?

Early B.

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #10 on: 17 Oct 2024, 02:00 am »
The obvious name for these speakers: "Tyson's Fury" 8)

Tyson

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #11 on: 17 Oct 2024, 02:50 am »
Thanks everyone!  It's been an adventure, that's for sure.  When I was in the middle of it I was having my doubts, but now that it's all done - hell yeah it was worth it!

Tyson,

Congratulations on your Line Force speakers and servo subs!

Heard them in 2015 at Danny's!  Even got to try my hand at doing a dspMusik 2/8 crossover for them with measurements.

Had to build line arrays after that! :)
You're right.  There's something about line arrays that no other speaker type can touch.  Part of it is scale, but not just that.  There's a surprising amount of intimacy in the sound, too.


AWESOME.   If GR ever figures out a replacement for the Neo 10 I would be fast to build these and have them as my reference speakers.  I wanted to build them before I built my oticas but when I found out BG no longer made the Neo 10 I was heart broken.  😭😂.  Maybe someday soon I will pay you a visit Tyson and we can Jam!
Definitely we can jam.  You know, the speaker is kind of dangerous.  It never feels strained or like it's working hard.  It's like it's just egging you on to turn it UP. 


Your house is on my bucket list  :lol:
Well, come on!   8)


They look tremendous from here..
Congratulations
Thanks!  They are not perfect, but that was a choice I made.  I realized about myself if I made them up to be perfect and really flashy, that I'd just obsess over keeping them nice.  Having a more imperfections out of the gate lets me relax and just focus on the music.


LMK... I'll bring duct tape and rope.  Then you and I can figure out who gets what.
You would both end up with 1 speaker each and be condemned to listen in mono :lol:

Well that’s an interesting twist.  Do they sound as good as you remembered?  That window on the right can’t be helpful.
They are sounding even better than I remember.  Surprisingly they interact less with the window than the Super 7's did.  In fact, I've also noticed they interact less with the ceiling and the front wall than the 7's did.  Which was surprising to me because the 7's were already better than most box speakers re: room interaction. 


Congratulations Tyson! Well done! It always sound/feels better when you put in the sweat equity, or at least that has been my experience. Looking forward to hearing your listening impressions once they settle in, it will be a bit with the components you are using.
You don't know how much your post on the painting process helped me.  Thank you so much for that, it really did open up my mind to try to do this myself. 


Congrats Tyson. You’re going to love them!
I don't think you know this, but it was your build of the LineForce that inspired me to look for the Neo10's a year ago.  So in a way, you're the godfather to this whole project  8)



Congrats Tyson - nicely done.

Sound?
Crossover components?
At some point I'll do a full review of them.  Early impressions are that they are able to scale to insane levels with full scale Bruckner, and never even break a sweat.  Seriously, they never sound strained, they are always just loafing along, no matter what I throw at them.  Now, that doesn't mean they are boring to listen to.  Quite the opposite - they have jackhammer dynamics.  Well, you have line arrays, so you understand  :thumb:  I do think the combo of line array plus OB tricks my brain into perceiving my room as being bigger than it really is. 

Crossover parts - I was able to re-use about 30% of my Super 7 crossover, and the rest are Sonicaps and Clarity Caps from other projects I had in my stash in the storage area.  Inductors were all Jantzen wax paper copper foils and resistors were Duelunds.



The obvious name for these speakers: "Tyson's Fury" 8)

Maybe I should change up my avatar to this:

S Clark

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #12 on: 17 Oct 2024, 03:09 am »
Congratulations.  With you Super7's you had a speaker that bested my LS9's in lots of ways, but the Lineforce best them in every way!  You're done.  You can rest from your audio journey... speaker wise, anyway. 

mresseguie

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #13 on: 17 Oct 2024, 05:44 am »
Wow - just wow!  :o

If I find myself in your neck of the woods again, I would love to hear these -- at reasonable listening levels.

 

Glady86

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #14 on: 17 Oct 2024, 05:58 am »
They look great, and bet sound amazing. Wonder why they stopped making those NEO drivers?

nlitworld

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #15 on: 17 Oct 2024, 02:16 pm »
Nice work Tyson. They turned out great. And now that you learned all those speaker build quirks and skills you'll be ready for the next set.  :lol:

Jaytor

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #16 on: 17 Oct 2024, 03:20 pm »
I don't think you know this, but it was your build of the LineForce that inspired me to look for the Neo10's a year ago.  So in a way, you're the godfather to this whole project  8)

I'm glad I could be such a bad influence.  :icon_lol:

Pez

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #17 on: 17 Oct 2024, 05:53 pm »
This one was a lot of work. Getting the details done was quite difficult at times. We often found having to sand and paint the interior portions was difficult given the cabinets design for the subs.

All that said, I enjoyed the project a lot, and seeing the photos of it complete completed is quite satisfied. I’m looking forward to hearing these in person. :thumb:

nlitworld

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #18 on: 17 Oct 2024, 09:06 pm »
This one was a lot of work. Getting the details done was quite difficult at times. We often found having to sand and paint the interior portions was difficult given the cabinets design for the subs.

Boy do I know it. I'm helping a friend with triple threat kit right now and ibuprofen abuse is a real thing.  :lol:

Just keep sanding... Just keep sanding...

It takes a good friend to subject themselves to such antics but we all do it for the sake of new audio toys.  :thumb:

Huskerbryce

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #19 on: 17 Oct 2024, 11:33 pm »
When I built my NX Oticas, I sanded for weeks it seemed. I didn’t actually keep calendar track of how many days and how many hours I sanded, but it was a freaking lot.