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Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 12 Feb 2021, 05:02 pm

Title: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Feb 2021, 05:02 pm
All you guys up North of us. Your weather came down here and it's in my yard. Please come and get it or call it back home or something.

We have been getting email notices on most of the orders that we have shipped out via UPS stating "Severe weather conditions have delayed delivery."

Sorry guys.  :cry:

It is now 19 degrees out now and today is the warm day. It is suppose to get colder this weekend. And we are predicted to get 5 to 10 inches of snow in our area over the weekend.

A couple of my employees drive in daily from an hour and a half away each day. And that will mean that they will not be making it in next week if the roads are bad. So we are going to be snowed under with more work and orders than we can get out for a little while. My wife and I will be putting in some long hours. Luckily the shop that we work from is just 150 feet from our house. So we will be working hard and trying to stay on top of things. So please be patient with us.

And I know you guys up North have it way worse than we do here in North Texas. It's going to be a cold and tough couple of weeks. Stay warm, stay home if you can, and enjoy some music.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: VinceT on 12 Feb 2021, 05:54 pm
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220815)

Kind of the norm up in these parts


In all seriousness...be safe down there, I just saw that clip of that 100 vehicle pile up in Fort Worth.  We drive in this stuff 4 months out of the year up here in the North, not so much in the south. Folks just need to slow it way down and increase stopping distances. We had a 100 car pile up in Michigan a few years back due to no visibility and white out conditions, pretty horrific.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: JWCoffman on 12 Feb 2021, 05:55 pm
I lived in Tulsa for a year and that was a surprisingly cold winter getting down into single digits on a regular basis.  It was not like living in Michigan, but still pretty chilly and probably about the same as north Texas.  I'm glad to be back in Seattle where we're freaking out about overnight temps in the 20's and a few inches of snow over the weekend. :roll:
Stay safe everyone.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Feb 2021, 06:51 pm
Was  around  -20C this am up here,  neighboors just east of us are loking at -30' - - 40's

Can't really  complain,  up until now it has been  extremely mild this year

Might have to get some touques made up and start including them  in  shipments  heading   South for you  guys   :)

Stay safe, hopefully  it  won't  last  long
jay
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Feb 2021, 06:53 pm
In all seriousness...be safe down there, I just saw that clip of that 100 vehicle pile up in Fort Worth.  We drive in this stuff 4 months out of the year up here in the North, not so much in the south. Folks just need to slow it way down and increase stopping distances.

That went from a dry road to an long elevated road (like an overpass) and it was covered in black ice. So it hit everyone by surprise. And it was really bad.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: VinceT on 12 Feb 2021, 07:21 pm
I have been in that situation where the black ice comes out of no where. I noticed it, other drivers didn't and was really really bad. So I understand how that can happen. Those situations are very scary.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 12 Feb 2021, 07:36 pm
Meanwhile its been nothing but warm, sunny, spring weather here...  :lol:
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: 2bigears on 12 Feb 2021, 07:49 pm
 :D blame our do-anything we want lifestyle. We broke the polar vortex. The warm air is up north. Funny the news (6 big billionaires) won't mention climate disruption. Just Mother Nature wanting us GONE. Even her Animals want us GONE as we extinct 150 of them a day. Good lord a little chilly weather is NOTHING to whats coming.  Haha.   :D
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: S Clark on 12 Feb 2021, 08:08 pm
A couple of those folks from that Ft. Worth wreck ended up at the hospital where my daughter works.  The ones that got killed had gotten out of their cars and were hit by cars out of control. 
Abilene is expecting 0* (update is now -2*) next Mon and Tues.  For those of us in the hills outside of town, it usually gets 3-4* colder.  We'll be below zero for a couple of days.   :o    I need to get out and cut some more wood while it's still in the teens. 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Brendan on 13 Feb 2021, 02:30 am
Very sad for those involved in the giant pile up.

Meanwhile doing snow dance in Utah!  We are way behind.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Ice10 on 13 Feb 2021, 02:33 am

Meanwhile doing snow dance in Utah!  We are way behind.

Same here in Idaho!  On the way home form the restaurant my wife and kids were begging to put the house Christmas lights up again since they missed a white Christmas.  Unfortunately for them that was met with a hard no.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Barryg443 on 13 Feb 2021, 03:11 am
Same here in Idaho!  On the way home form the restaurant my wife and kids were begging to put the house Christmas lights up again since they missed a white Christmas.  Unfortunately for them that was met with a hard no.

You could have gone with red lights for Valentines Day!
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Ice10 on 13 Feb 2021, 03:17 am
Hindsight...darn it! Lol
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: hawkeyejw on 13 Feb 2021, 02:50 pm
I think you and the Mrs. should take a snow day and relax Danny. You have earned it!
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: rollo on 13 Feb 2021, 03:53 pm
  I pray for those who have died. Horrific to see.  :(



charles
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: twitch54 on 13 Feb 2021, 05:03 pm
get one of these to ride, you'll love snow !


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220870)
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Letitroll98 on 13 Feb 2021, 05:56 pm
:D blame our do-anything we want lifestyle. We broke the polar vortex. The warm air is up north. Funny the news (6 big billionaires) won't mention climate disruption. Just Mother Nature wanting us GONE. Even her Animals want us GONE as we extinct 150 of them a day. Good lord a little chilly weather is NOTHING to whats coming.  Haha.   :D

Anthropogenic Climate Change doesn't always meant that it's warm weather in your area, it means greater fluctuations in local weather because of global climatic variations.  Currently the Artic is warming pushing the center of seasonal polar cold air mass further south.  It was recently over Siberia and has moved eastward over the Canadian shield.  This translates to its cold as shite bubba.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: MttBsh on 13 Feb 2021, 06:18 pm
Here in Seattle we are getting a serious snow dump with about 6 inches on the ground where I live and it's not letting up anytime soon. This is somewhat rare in this area where some winters we get a dusting but others there is none at all. If the pandemic was making people stay home the snow is now offering us little choice. Personally, I love it and my five month old Siberian Husky, playing in snow for the first time, is in heaven!
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: PDR on 13 Feb 2021, 06:40 pm
Anthropogenic Climate Change doesn't always meant that it's warm weather in your area, it means greater fluctuations in local weather because of global climatic variations.  Currently the Artic is warming pushing the center of seasonal polar cold air mass further south.  It was recently over Siberia and has moved eastward over the Canadian shield.  This translates to its cold as shite bubba.

Your absolutely correct.
I've lived in northern Canada all my life.
The 70s were way colder then......how do I remember?
Walked to school, snowmobiled, skied and trapped, etc all in the -30Cs
The media were warning us that another Ice age was coming....doom and gloom on the
opposite spectrum just 45 short years ago, have the frost bitten ears and fingers to prove it.
But that was incorrect, it was just ALL the news outlets getting it wrong, that could never happen again.
Just a one off......
Now the medias got it right!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

https://albertapressleader.ca/?p=15716

Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: emailtim on 17 Feb 2021, 01:32 am
Did you shovel off your solar panels and de-ice your windmills ?
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Letitroll98 on 17 Feb 2021, 01:29 pm
I just read the daily blog of Dr Heather Cox Richardson who stated that in the 1930s most of Texas decided to cut itself off from the national power grid and go its own way with power delivery.  When every single Texas family turned on their electric heaters the grid collapsed causing all the outages.  With no way to draw on the national grid there was no path for recovery leaving millions of citizens without power for days.  El Paso didn't subscribe to that effort and is hooked up to the national grid and its citizens were only without power for a couple of hours.  Texas residents here may be able to verify that?
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Danny Richie on 17 Feb 2021, 02:53 pm
I just read the daily blog of Dr Heather Cox Richardson who stated that in the 1930s most of Texas decided to cut itself off from the national power grid and go its own way with power delivery.  When every single Texas family turned on their electric heaters the grid collapsed causing all the outages.  With no way to draw on the national grid there was no path for recovery leaving millions of citizens without power for days.  El Paso didn't subscribe to that effort and is hooked up to the national grid and its citizens were only without power for a couple of hours.  Texas residents here may be able to verify that?

Actually we allowed our state to go a little too green. A coal burning plant was shut down just 40 miles from me and now the fields for as far as you can see are covered in wind generators. And all those wind generators are now frozen.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Danny Richie on 17 Feb 2021, 02:57 pm
Guys, we just got another 8 to 10 inches of snow around here. And you can't even see where the road stops and the ditches start. The roads, the fields, and everything is covered in snow. So nothing will be getting in or out of here for a few days.

And we are in a rural area in a part of the country where we don't have too many snow plows around. This could take a while.

We'll be at work in the shop packing up orders, but they won't be getting picked up by UPS.

And so far we are one of the lucky ones that still have power.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 17 Feb 2021, 03:36 pm
Glad you still got power, even if things are stuck at a bit of a standstill for the next few days.

Stay safe & stay warm!  :thumb:
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: 77SunsetStrip on 17 Feb 2021, 03:54 pm
Actually we allowed our state to go a little too green. A coal burning plant was shut down just 40 miles from me and now the fields for as far as you can see are covered in wind generators. And all those wind generators are now frozen.

The problem unsolved to date is no effective storage technology to capture wind or solar energy to tap during peak load conditions.  Much more hard work necessary to develop alternative energy sources that make sense.  Also, not as simple as Texas isolated from the national grid, even if true.  Infrastructure from the power plant to each customer is not sized for long term higher than designed for peak loads.  Same problem when I lived up North.  Cold spells routinely blew transformers serving neighborhoods due to overload.  Any Utility that must ask government for approval of their rate structure is between a rock and hard place. 

The rolling blackouts in Texas should serve as a warning to the rest of the Country.   This is what Nationwide irrationally applied green energy policy will look like.












Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: VinceT on 17 Feb 2021, 04:00 pm
Keep an eye on the fuel prices

Already been creeping up, will be interesting to see if the trend continues or is just typical market based price fluctuation vs. Energy policy.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: wushuliu on 17 Feb 2021, 06:10 pm
I think it's bizarre to blame a set of policies that don't even exist yet for factual decisions made by entities and individuals who are on record about the reasons for Texas' power problems. And now as a thank you, Texans may have to pay even more in rising charges.

I don't really care one way or the other about whether the Texas energy's independent infrastructure was a good idea or not. But a region known for straight talk, tough men, and independence should be able to take responsibility for the bad as well as the good. As is often said in this hobby 'there's no free lunch'.

Thoughts and prayers to all those affected.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: corndog71 on 17 Feb 2021, 06:18 pm
Texas is over 80% fossil fuel driven.  Frozen windmills aren’t the problem.

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/16/wind-power-isnt-to-blame-for-texas-electricity-crisis/?sh=29f49b6721b3 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/16/wind-power-isnt-to-blame-for-texas-electricity-crisis/?sh=29f49b6721b3)

Switzerland and Denmark have windmills and they figured out how to make them not freeze. 
Also, colder air is more dense and is better at spinning the windmills.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Danny Richie on 17 Feb 2021, 06:35 pm
Thanks corndog,

It looks like the frozen wind generators are only part of the problem. I guess we haven't figured out how to keep them from freezing yet.

And good points from you too wushuliu. When we dig our own holes we can't complain about falling down in them.

On a good note, warmer weather Friday and Saturday...
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: 77SunsetStrip on 17 Feb 2021, 07:47 pm
Texas is over 80% fossil fuel driven.  Frozen windmills aren’t the problem.

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/16/wind-power-isnt-to-blame-for-texas-electricity-crisis/?sh=29f49b6721b3 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/16/wind-power-isnt-to-blame-for-texas-electricity-crisis/?sh=29f49b6721b3)

Switzerland and Denmark have windmills and they figured out how to make them not freeze. 
Also, colder air is more dense and is better at spinning the windmills.

the Forbes article accurately points out multiple factors involved in the current power shortage.  However, there are unavoidable facts about wind and solar that politics or belief systems can't change.  No doubt there is tremendous potential energy that can be captured from wind and solar.  Until there is massive energy storage capability that can be distributed on demand, wind and solar usefulness is limited.

Ever been to west Texas, wind howling, but only 1 in 10 wind turbines actually spinning.  Power grid demand not present and no place to store energy so 9 out of 10 turbines locked down during prime conditions to capture wind energy.  Better energy storage technology will be developed to capture alternative energy resources.  Until then, they are "feel good" measure with very limited benefit.     

 

Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: jparkhur on 17 Feb 2021, 07:54 pm
Got wind turbines all over Iowa, MN and WI.  Texas doesn't plan on this weather and they did not install core heaters as well as de icing methods.  Our are running as normal with the winter wind.   -40 yesterday with wind.   Texas and southern states just too cheap to include the cold weather floor mats and mirror heaters..   Also, your nuclear plant runs on water cooling, the is frozen solid, and the refiner in south Texas outside Houston shut down because of the machines not wanting to rotate in the ice.  In the last thirty years, in Austin, there has only been three times there was measurable snow for more than 24 hours.   Now,  my 12.5kw of solar on my garage does not work since it is not warm enough to have the snow slide off and melt.   urrrrr.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: tom739 on 17 Feb 2021, 10:12 pm
...
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: timind on 17 Feb 2021, 11:36 pm
Get ready to call a plumber when things warm up and the busted water pipes start spewing water. It happened to me once, and it makes a mess.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Toecutter on 18 Feb 2021, 01:33 pm
It's awful isn't it, as beautiful  the mountains  and forests are in the northeast,  im so done with snow. At least we are prepared for it up here .

How you guys.dealing with the cold when power goes out. Most in our parts have Woodstock, generators or propane backup heat.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: S Clark on 18 Feb 2021, 03:36 pm
...  Texas and southern states just too cheap to include the cold weather floor mats and mirror heaters..   
Just got power last night.  I had tried to hook up my router and computer to our little generator, but the pulsing fried my primary computer  :duh:
Texas has it's own grid, privately managed and overseen by the state. It works well to cut corners- most of the time.  So when our governor says he's going to get to the bottom of the debacle, all he has to do is look in the mirror. 
Living out in the country, I'm used to power outages measured in a few hours, but not days. It's the coldest it's been in my 68 years.  Our wood stove has been going non stop since Sunday, but it didn't save my pump house.  I've got lots of busted pvc to deal with when it finally warms up.  Even my generator won't help if the pipes are gone. 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Toecutter on 18 Feb 2021, 04:51 pm
Invest in a battery backup for your pc electronics, a ups power suppy. it will clean the power from the genny. It will also give you time  to save any work if power goes out while using them.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: mflaming on 18 Feb 2021, 09:56 pm
The reduction in output from wind turbines was actually less than predicted. The real problem was from gas lines freezing up at the well head that feed the gas fired plants. Conservatives are trying to spin this as a failure of green energy, but that is an outright lie. We had a similar storm in 2011 and the producers failed to prepare because of soft regulations. The politicians are pretty busy now blaming everyone in sight. No one taking responsibility.

Texas has 6 GW of winter time wind capacity and 67 GW natural gas. Half the gas plants went down. Demand when the storm hit was 70 GW - near summertime peak. If we lost 3 GW of wind and 30 GW of gas power, not a green energy failure.

Good thing about Texas is forecast temp are in the 70's next week.

Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: WarmColors on 19 Feb 2021, 01:26 am
The reduction in output from wind turbines was actually less than predicted. The real problem was from gas lines freezing up at the well head that feed the gas fired plants. Conservatives are trying to spin this as a failure of green energy, but that is an outright lie. We had a similar storm in 2011 and the producers failed to prepare because of soft regulations. The politicians are pretty busy now blaming everyone in sight. No one taking responsibility.

Texas has 6 GW of winter time wind capacity and 67 GW natural gas. Half the gas plants went down. Demand when the storm hit was 70 GW - near summertime peak. If we lost 3 GW of wind and 30 GW of gas power, not a green energy failure.

Good thing about Texas is forecast temp are in the 70's next week.

I have a buddy who works for Ercot. Him and his team designed the newer infrastructure and had a part in directing the Local who won the bid to install some of the newer wind turbines.

He is a hardcore conservative (unlike me) but he knows it is just politics like always trying to blame someone. (green energy)
He does not like the idea of how fast we are switching energy sources, but he understands that as a nation we need to move forward with the technology.

I believe him when he says it was the gas lines freezing, he saw the reports and pictures that were taken, with his own eyes.

Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: rotarius on 19 Feb 2021, 01:58 am
This is too funny, blame wind turbines for colossal failures in energy planning in the energy capital of the country.  They have a wind farm in Antarctica that does not freeze up.  Figure it out y'all, not rocket surgery.  :duh:
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: FireGuy on 19 Feb 2021, 02:04 am
People in Buffalo be like:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221068)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221069)
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: jonsk2514 on 19 Feb 2021, 01:34 pm
I feel for those of you in Texas and hope that it gets back to “warm” soon.  The NE is prepared for this sort of thing as it is part of our annual cycle.  But we get hit with ice storms every once and a while which will take things down for a few day.  I have sat several days with no power and 10F at night.  Hang in there the best you can...

Invest in a battery backup for your pc electronics, a ups power suppy. it will clean the power from the genny. It will also give you time  to save any work if power goes out while using them.

Make sure any backup power supply is pure sine wave, not a cheap inverter that is square wave.  Square wave can fry electronics too.  Even some of the gas generators have gone to inverters and it is not clear to me which inverter type they use, but given how cheap they are, I expect they are square wave.  Not worth the money.  There is at least one Li-ion general purpose power supply brand, with good watt-hr ratings, out there that are based on a pure sine wave inverter, but plan on spending $$$ on it.  Like really good audiophile speakers, you don’t get some for nothing... 

Best to all.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Toecutter on 19 Feb 2021, 02:25 pm
I feel for those of you in Texas and hope that it gets back to “warm” soon.  The NE is prepared for this sort of thing as it is part of our annual cycle.  But we get hit with ice storms every once and a while which will take things down for a few day.  I have sat several days with no power and 10F at night.  Hang in there the best you can...

Make sure any backup power supply is pure sine wave, not a cheap inverter that is square wave.  Square wave can fry electronics too.  Even some of the gas generators have gone to inverters and it is not clear to me which inverter type they use, but given how cheap they are, I expect they are square wave.  Not worth the money.  There is at least one Li-ion general purpose power supply brand, with good watt-hr ratings, out there that are based on a pure sine wave inverter, but plan on spending $$$ on it.  Like really good audiophile speakers, you don’t get some for nothing... 

Best to all.  :thumb:

Yeah need any advice us Northerners may help.

The beauty  of a ups power supply is your electronics will run off the battery and the battery is charging from the genny , it's a buffer between the genny and computer. Personally  o do t use my sensitive  electronics during outages. Usually  the cable and internet is down anyway. I live in the a mountainous wooded area the  power goes out cause a tree took down the lines.

I heated my house in upstate newyork for three years with nothing but a cast iron wood stove, through below zero weather.  When the powers out ive cooked on it and used to to heat water for baths.  If your in cold climates I'd say it's essential  to have one.

I also have a portable blueflame propane heater it's 20k btu  it will temporarily  heat my house for the short term .  Gasoline is harder to get during  outages round here  but propane isnt.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: mflaming on 19 Feb 2021, 02:48 pm
Good info here from the northerners. Thanks! This has been a real wake up call. I want battery backup, solar panels, dual fuel propane/natural gas heat and power generation, wood, gasoline generator - all of it! Multiple backup plans. I'm not super optimistic that our political leaders will solve energy insecurity in coming decades. Probably wise to prepare for disruptions.   
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 19 Feb 2021, 03:02 pm
I've had issues in the past with sudden power droops that caused me to loose a lot of art work cuz I didn't save often enough.

Getting a battery UPS has saved my bacon on several occasions, giving me enough time to save my work & shut down, or smooth out the power during those dips.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: 77SunsetStrip on 19 Feb 2021, 03:07 pm
The reduction in output from wind turbines was actually less than predicted. The real problem was from gas lines freezing up at the well head that feed the gas fired plants. Conservatives are trying to spin this as a failure of green energy, but that is an outright lie. We had a similar storm in 2011 and the producers failed to prepare because of soft regulations. The politicians are pretty busy now blaming everyone in sight. No one taking responsibility.

Texas has 6 GW of winter time wind capacity and 67 GW natural gas. Half the gas plants went down. Demand when the storm hit was 70 GW - near summertime peak. If we lost 3 GW of wind and 30 GW of gas power, not a green energy failure.

Good thing about Texas is forecast temp are in the 70's next week.

Facts and science are the only truths.  Political labels and political posturing do nothing productive.

Gas fueled power generation replaced many coal fired plants in Texas.  Absolutely a "cleaner greener" power generation method.  Gas fired power generation cannot be separated from "Green" energy.  It has to be a major part of the move to "Green" for the foreseeable future.  Three problems revealed.  First, gas fired plants must be better prepared for severe weather in the future.  Secondly, gas production and distribution has to be better prepared.  Third, "greener" energy production must be overall more robust and dependable. 

Wind turbines freezing up in Texas actually confirmed the weakness of that technology.  Anytime, for any reason, a wind turbine stops generating energy confirms they are not dependable.  For wind turbines to be reliable contributors in the power grid there must be massive energy storage capability.  That technology does not exist currently, maybe someday.  Counting on wind turbines currently is not based on facts.

The power crisis experienced in Texas is a warning.  Politics, emotion, and government drove Texas power generation in a "greener" direction.  Scale that to a national level and what do you think will happen?  There is no doubt energy production must evolve.  Most importantly, there must be rational fact based planning and execution.   


 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: genjamon on 19 Feb 2021, 04:09 pm
Seems like the discourse here is getting pretty political. 

I felt like this was a pretty nice, balanced, a-political/neutral article:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/whats-behind-the-texas-power-outages-11613508031

Plus, I've seen hordes and hordes of articles fact-checking the wind turbine drama and noting it's a politically cooked-up drama.  Some wind turbines did fail due to icing, but not nearly as much as natural gas failed due to excess demand for natural gas.  Both technologies suffered from lack of winterization due to lax regulations in Texas.  But of the two, wind energy performed much better and close to what was projected in terms of output, but natural gas took a much bigger and more systemic hit and is largely responsible for the failure of the grid. 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: newzooreview on 19 Feb 2021, 04:28 pm
Ars Technica also has a good overview of the complex systemic issues that contributed to the problems.

I hope all of you in Texas are hanging in there ok.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/02/even-power-disasters-are-bigger-in-texas-heres-why/2/


Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Toecutter on 19 Feb 2021, 04:38 pm
This is a fluke, not political, the infastructure wasnt ready for this. Its a lesson to be learned.

People need to be more indepedent from government, learn the old ways. This will make us all stronger as a country. I personally keep 4 months of food on hand. Have a plan to heat your home.

Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: JWCoffman on 19 Feb 2021, 04:43 pm
Facts and science are the only truths.  Political labels and political posturing do nothing productive.

Gas fueled power generation replaced many coal fired plants in Texas.  Absolutely a "cleaner greener" power generation method.  Gas fired power generation cannot be separated from "Green" energy.  It has to be a major part of the move to "Green" for the foreseeable future.  Three problems revealed.  First, gas fired plants must be better prepared for severe weather in the future.  Secondly, gas production and distribution has to be better prepared.  Third, "greener" energy production must be overall more robust and dependable. 

Wind turbines freezing up in Texas actually confirmed the weakness of that technology.  Anytime, for any reason, a wind turbine stops generating energy confirms they are not dependable.  For wind turbines to be reliable contributors in the power grid there must be massive energy storage capability.  That technology does not exist currently, maybe someday.  Counting on wind turbines currently is not based on facts.

The power crisis experienced in Texas is a warning.  Politics, emotion, and government drove Texas power generation in a "greener" direction.  Scale that to a national level and what do you think will happen?  There is no doubt energy production must evolve.  Most importantly, there must be rational fact based planning and execution.   

I had a whole discourse queued up in response, but thought better of it.  Let's keep this friendly.  There's a reason I'm not on Facebook or Twitter.

That said, please stay safe everyone.  This has been the biggest environmental catastrophe in Texas' history and a lot of people are suffering.  Texas is a beautiful state with incredible people and I wish you all a speedy recovery.  I have a bad feeling in a few days we'll be talking about the state of the aging water utility systems instead of a failed power grid.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 19 Feb 2021, 04:55 pm
Regardless of blame, here's hoping that going forward, Texas officials will work to winterize the turbines & gas lines, and better prepare for future power issues related to inclement weather, be they polar vortexes, hurricaness etc. And put safeguards in place to prevent future issues such as public announcements for how to prevent frozen/burst pipes, and promote better preparedness among the citizenry.

Cuz even if it's something that only occurs once every decade or so, having that peace of mind that there are mitigations & safeguards in place to keep things moving, people fed and warm.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Tyson on 19 Feb 2021, 09:25 pm
People tend to not fix things until they are broke.  So now Texas has an opportunity to make their grid better. 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: S Clark on 19 Feb 2021, 09:50 pm
People tend to not fix things until they are broke.  So now Texas has an opportunity to make their grid better.
People think that the energy board didn't know they were unprepared.  I find that unlikely.  It was more likely a gamble that cheaper energy and less maintenance was a more profitable call.  The Texas 'independence" mentality is more actually a small government philosophy.  Sorta works until it doesn't.  I'd be very surprised if we spend real money on a semi-private grid system- unless they can use it to pass higher bills along to the public.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: devious17 on 20 Feb 2021, 01:24 am
I am from Malaysia, a country right on the equator, is also experiencing cooler weather than usual and my pooch has been whining for several days.
Looks like Hell is freezing over while I listen to my X-Statik with my tubes keeping me warm.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: johnny_fever on 20 Feb 2021, 01:36 am
I feel bad for Texas. Here in IL some of us are shoveling 3 ft of snow off our roofs with more snow on its way
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Kishore on 22 Feb 2021, 08:21 pm
......  Wind turbines freezing up in Texas actually confirmed the weakness of that technology. ...

Your observation about freezing up is correct but your conclusion about technology is incorrect/erroneous and shall I say qualifies for an 'alternative fact'  :lol:. It confirms that wind turbines used in TX were useless for winter climate. Also confirms TX never accounted for the need for 'winterization' to make wind turbines work in harsher climate .

Actually we allowed our state to go a little too green. A coal burning plant was shut down just 40 miles from me and now the fields for as far as you can see are covered in wind generators. And all those wind generators are now frozen.

Gotto comment on this- Danny, only 13% is supposed to come from Wind Power during winter months for TX. The wind generators work in harsh winters (ask neighboring states up north or Icelandic countries) but TX never considered paying higher price for those models.

 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: 77SunsetStrip on 22 Feb 2021, 10:37 pm
Your observation about freezing up is correct but your conclusion about technology is incorrect/erroneous and shall I say qualifies for an 'alternative fact'  :lol:. It confirms that wind turbines used in TX were useless for winter climate. Also confirms TX never accounted for the need for 'winterization' to make wind turbines work in harsher climate .

Gotto comment on this- Danny, only 13% is supposed to come from Wind Power during winter months for TX. The wind generators work in harsh winters (ask neighboring states up north or Icelandic countries) but TX never considered paying higher price for those models.

Did you read the entire post and understand the complete context?  When a wind turbine does not turn, regardless of the reason, it confirms the weakness of that technology.  That is a fact firmly grounded in science and reality.  For wind turbine technology to live up to its full potential there must be a complete system that includes massive energy storage technology.  When you see wind turbines not turning during ideal wind conditions it is because there is no instantaneous demand for their power and no place to store it for later use.
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: Kishore on 23 Feb 2021, 08:27 am

There is only one reason wind turbines did not turn in TX. The answer is in my post above. You are avoiding the underlying reason  :nono:

 
Did you read the entire post and understand the complete context?  When a wind turbine does not turn, regardless of the reason, it confirms the weakness of that technology.

Going by your logic, seems we need to stop using natural gas as well. That did not work in TX either. In fact it performed far worse.

Quote
That is a fact firmly grounded in science and reality.  For wind turbine technology to live up to its full potential there must be a complete system that includes massive energy storage technology.  When you see wind turbines not turning during ideal wind conditions it is because there is no instantaneous demand for their power and no place to store it for later use.

Wind energy with 98% uptime (so this means if you are not getting that uptime, you are screwing your choice) is a good alternative to add more power to primary sources. I cannot help it when stupid people use inferior implementation as a reference and then blame entire technology for it  :green:
 
 
 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: 77SunsetStrip on 23 Feb 2021, 01:50 pm
There is only one reason wind turbines did not turn in TX. The answer is in my post above. You are avoiding the underlying reason  :nono:

 
Going by your logic, seems we need to stop using natural gas as well. That did not work in TX either. In fact it performed far worse.

Wind energy with 98% uptime (so this means if you are not getting that uptime, you are screwing your choice) is a good alternative to add more power to primary sources. I cannot help it when stupid people use inferior implementation as a reference and then blame entire technology for it  :green:

I see, you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the fact that wind turbine energy production has a weakness.  Technology improves only when weakness is identified and addressed.  Add energy storage capability and it can be a very valuable part of the energy grid.  Simple facts, not a value judgement.

There is no connection or logic to your tangential introduction of whether natural gas should be used. 
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: jonsk2514 on 23 Feb 2021, 02:07 pm
And it is currently 6-ish AM in Texas and it is generally in the mid 40Fs, with an expected high generally near 80F...

Hopefully, things are returning to normal...  :thumb:

And we can get back to thinking about finishing the speakers we are building...    :green:
Title: Re: The weather, the weather, the weather....
Post by: VinceT on 1 Mar 2021, 06:29 pm
Nice weekend here in the Mitten

Temps hit near 60 yesterday, I was wearing a t shirt walking in 8 inches of snow. Here in Michigan we call this the false spring, I expect at least one more huge dump of snow and some freezing rain. Now the snow is gone down south, time to batten down the hatches for tornado season  :o