[wyowolf]

I just got my STs the other day and was having some issues about the set up I thought you guys could help me with... specifically bass response...

I have gotten some rather underwhelming bass response and was wondering what I might be doing wrong?

I have them setting appx 18 inches from the wall about 8 feet apart. there is an entertainment center in between them. Right now I just have the two STs and a sub hooked up. A BW 608 I believe.

I ran the MCAAC thing, and didnt really like it, so i turned it off. It just killed the top end. I have my speakers set to LARGE and the SUB set to PLUS running in DIRECT MODE. As I understand it, this sends all the freq to the sub and the speaker. I had the Xover set to 80 ...

didnt make any improvements... so moved the Xover to 50 and that seemed to make it better... but I think the set up is still not quite right. Room treatments?

I have an audio test cd i ran, but am not sure how to use it correctly. I have an RS soundmeter as well... the CD has a bunch of test tones on it.

On some songs the sub seems really boomy! others... not there at all... hard to find the right setting for it... all songs are FLAC or Jims CD.

for movies it works great! dialog is right in the middle and easy to understand.. without even using a center.

the room is appx 18x20 w a floating HW floor and the back is open to the kitchen.

the amp is a PIO Elite SC35

any info on how to properly use the test tones?

Thanks in advance... Frank

[ArthurDent]

Not an expert here, but try setting the fronts to Small rather than Large. I'm sure you will get plenty of sage advice as many here are pros on set ups, and the accompanying pitfalls & solutions. I've never run my STs with a sub for 2 channel, and don't recall that anyone in the 4 auditions I've held for Jim felt they were bass shy, but then again I'm in a smaller room (half of 12'x28'). I'm pretty sure the setup with my Outlaw 990 was to Small for the combo HT system I used to run. In any case it's an easy test to see if you get more of the sound you are looking for, till those in the know chime in.   

[fishinbob]

AD beat me to it so I will second that. Try running the Songtowers set to Small. Running the bass through both sub and mains will seldom work, if at all, regardless of speaker size. It could easily be causing the muddiness you're experiencing.
FWIW I cross my STs at 80 hz and am using a SC-07.
You might also want to look into some bass traps. We all can use them.

[wyowolf]

ok will try that. I know from reading thousands of threads on here they are NOT bass shy, I am just trying to figure out what I am doing wrong...

* total newb!

Maybe I should run them without a sub and try that... set to small.

[fishinbob]

Maybe I should run them without a sub and try that... set to small.

    ........Full range for that.

[wyowolf]

I think my only choices are small or large for the speakers....

Is it possible to run the sub for HT and just the speakers for music? just trying to understand how this works...

[vortrex]

You might also want to look into some bass traps. We all can use them.

bass traps!

[srb]

I think my only choices are small or large for the speakers....

Is it possible to run the sub for HT and just the speakers for music? just trying to understand how this works...

Large and Full Range mean the same thing, a full range signal is sent to that speaker with no crossover setting applied.

On my Rotel receiver, I can set the speakers to Small or Large separately for each sound mode (2 Ch Stereo, Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.) but I can't set the crossover frequency separately (would be nice!) and whatever crossover frequency I have selected is applied to all of the sound modes.  So I have mine set to Large for 2 Ch Stereo and Small for Dolby and DTS modes.

But briefly scanning the SC-35 manual it does not look like that is possible unless I am missing something.

Steve

[Big Red Machine]

The ST's and sub are independently connected to the receiver?  And if so, when set to large and the sub is off in Direct mode you do not get adequate bass?  If so, then the room is the issue.

What are the overall dimensions and where are the openings to other rooms?

The ST's can dig pretty deep in full range operation in modest sized rooms.  Any dac in the loop?

[fishinbob]

I think my only choices are small or large for the speakers....

Is it possible to run the sub for HT and just the speakers for music? just trying to understand how this works...

Go to system setup/ manual speaker setup/ set fronts to Large and SW to No and try that for music otherwise leave the fronts on Small and use the sub.

[ricardojoa]

I think my only choices are small or large for the speakers....

Is it possible to run the sub for HT and just the speakers for music? just trying to understand how this works...

it should be possible. Direct mode should be full range with no sub.
If u r going to use the sub, set the the front to small. If you want to set them to large, then you may want to set your sub xover somewhere lower down to 50>
I have always find 80 to be my siutable xoover point so tyou may want to try that.

[wyowolf]

The ST's and sub are independently connected to the receiver?  And if so, when set to large and the sub is off in Direct mode you do not get adequate bass?  If so, then the room is the issue.

What are the overall dimensions and where are the openings to other rooms?

The ST's can dig pretty deep in full range operation in modest sized rooms.  Any dac in the loop?

ok will try to answer all.

room is a sunken living room appx 18x20 w the speakers on the far wall away from the opening. There is pic on my ST thread, sorry cant post here at work.

floor is floating HW. there is a cove lighting sytem on the ceiling that runs the perimeter of the 9 foot ceiling. appx 1 foot deep, 3 feet wide.

Yes i use a DAC sometimes to play my FLAC library, but was using Jims CD in my Pio Elite BR player.

No i cannot sep modes on my SC35. I have 6 memory settings for the EQ i can switch between, but cant sep out the sub.

If i was to take out the sub, would i just wipe the memory of the Pio and start from scratch? i notice a lot of people listen to music w just the STs...

Nuance sent me an XLS plot to plot out test tones ..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/939744/the-official-salk-sound-owners-and-discussion-thread/7380#post_22102994  post 7388

thank you for all your suggestions...  still new to the Audio world and have a lot to learn...

Thank you, Frank

[wyowolf]

ok will try to answer all.

room is a sunken living room appx 18x20 w the speakers on the far wall away from the opening. There is pic on my ST thread, sorry cant post here at work.

floor is floating HW. there is a cove lighting sytem on the ceiling that runs the perimeter of the 9 foot ceiling. appx 1 foot deep, 3 feet wide.

Yes i use a DAC sometimes to play my FLAC library, but was using Jims CD in my Pio Elite BR player.

No i cannot sep modes on my SC35. I have 6 memory settings for the EQ i can switch between, but cant sep out the sub.

If i was to take out the sub, would i just wipe the memory of the Pio and start from scratch? i notice a lot of people listen to music w just the STs...

Nuance sent me an XLS plot to plot out test tones ..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/939744/the-official-salk-sound-owners-and-discussion-thread/7380#post_22102994  post 7388

thank you for all your suggestions...  still new to the Audio world and have a lot to learn...

Thank you, Frank

[wyowolf]

ok, it wont let me post a reply... says message body blank?? could be the PC here at work... will try again later...

thanks to all..

Frank

[wyowolf]

ok will try to answer all.

room is a sunken living room appx 18x20 w the speakers on the far wall away from the opening. There is pic on my ST thread, sorry cant post here at work.

floor is floating HW. there is a cove lighting sytem on the ceiling that runs the perimeter of the 9 foot ceiling. appx 1 foot deep, 3 feet wide.

Yes i use a DAC sometimes to play my FLAC library, but was using Jims CD in my Pio Elite BR player.

No i cannot sep modes on my SC35. I have 6 memory settings for the EQ i can switch between, but cant sep out the sub.

If i was to take out the sub, would i just wipe the memory of the Pio and start from scratch? i notice a lot of people listen to music w just the STs...

Nuance sent me an XLS plot to plot out test tones ..


thank you for all your suggestions...  still new to the Audio world and have a lot to learn...

Thank you, Frank

[Art_Chicago]

Frank,
Would you describe what do you expect in terms of bass? And what kind of speakers have you had/heard before?

[Nuance]

If i was to take out the sub, would i just wipe the memory of the Pio and start from scratch? i notice a lot of people listen to music w just the STs...

No, you don't need to wipe the memory.  Just turn off all EQ (or just listen in Direct Mode), and set the mains to full range and subwoofer to none (or no).  Turning off the subwoofer might force your model of receiver to run the fronts full range, but set them to full range just in case. 

You can run those test tones with and without the subwoofer if you want to; just be sure to set the correct settings in the receiver when making the change.  In other words, when listening with the subwoofer start with 80Hz crossover and set the mains to small.  When listening without the subwoofer disable the crossover and subwoofer and set the mains to full range.

I hope that helps, and I look forward to seeing your FR plot.  Just go up to 120Hz or so for now.

[wyowolf]

ok here it is.... i didnt have a 28hz.. only multiples of 5.. 20-25 etc until 120. I changed the columns to reflect this..


sorry cant figure out how to attach the file... so i took a picture...

this is with just the speakers... no sub

[Nuance]

Okay, so you definitely have some major peaks and nulls caused by your room.  Ideally you'd want a nice flat line, perhaps with a slight upward tilt as you get lower in frequency, but yours is wavy.  I highly recommend moving your subwoofer around using the sub crawl method.  You'll likely be able to find a better location that gives a smoother response.  I've attached a plot to give you an idea of what to shoot for (no smoothing was applied).

[wyowolf]

for this I didnt use the sub, just the STs.
I listened to some music this way and it seemed a bit better, but still not where it probably should be.

I guess room treatment would help that? just not sure where to start...

thanks for your input though

Frank