Tubes - better or just a different sonic flavor than solid state?

Niteshade · « **Reply #80 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 01:37 pm »

You think people are being a little too 'feminine' as I call it?

People on bulletin boards tend to read between the lines too much in my opinion. Things get blown out of proportion.

I have seen things go this far: A person says: "I Like the world!"

By the end of the day: OMG!

He wants to take over the world! Call the...whoever...lock 'em up!

On a bulletin board, an individual NEVER means what they say, it always means something else according to the readers.

I wish people would not put spin on everything.

Oops- I did read between the lines on this one....

JackD201 · « **Reply #81 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 01:49 pm »

I have an all SS system, a Hybrid system (both pre and power) and 2 all tube systems, one SET based and one PP based. Frankly? I enjoy them all. They were all built for specific purposes and all have met expectations for those purposes. So I'm happy. I've also tried mixing all the stuff up just to see what happens but all ended up in their original systems. So yes there are folks out there that prefer solid state sonically (for specific applications) and I'm one of them.

Yes I have a healthy collection of tubes to roll with and have gone pretty far down the tube path but I'm not shutting the door on solid state. To me a system is good if it delivers the goods. If it doesn't have a single tube in it or is hooked up with lamp cord, it just doesn't matter. I'm a believer in the golden triangle of listener, room and system. For as long as the angles equal 180 degrees then I say RIGHT ON!

charmerci · « **Reply #82 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 03:12 pm »

Ooops.

doug s. · « **Reply #83 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: charmerci on 7 Apr 2009, 03:12 pm

Well Jack, I have to disagree with you completely. The angles have to equal 360 degrees!!!

sorry, the addition of the three angles in all triangles, at least on this planet, will always add up to 180 degrees. mebbe you know this, but are making a joke i don't get...

doug s.

JackD201 · « **Reply #84 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 03:59 pm »

That is the Joke doug. Add another "angle" to the 3 and it isn't a triangle anymore right?

Another way to interpret it is that the triangle can be equilateral or as obtuse as one likes for as long as all three are still part of the whole.

satfrat · « **Reply #85 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 04:09 pm »

Quote from: JackD201 on 7 Apr 2009, 03:59 pm

That is the Joke doug. Add another "angle" to the 3 and it isn't a triangle anymore right?

Another way to interpret it is that the triangle can be equilateral or as obtuse as one likes for as long as all three are still part of the whole.

Yea but to say on topic, is the triangle tube or solid state?

Ideally for my tastes, it should be a combination of both solid state and tubes for my system. One w/o the other for me is like having a hotdog w/o the bun (like in the commercial).

HEY, it's all good.

Cheers,
Robin

JackD201 · « **Reply #86 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 04:51 pm »

It's whatever you want it to be man

nathanm · « **Reply #87 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 06:55 pm »

Quote

I know the main gripe about the "tube sound" is boomy bass.

Really?! Man, am I out of touch. All the tube amps I've owned I would describe as bass-shy if anything. Switching from tubes to SS has always made me think, "Hey cool, bass!" I figure there must be speakers which do work well with tubes, but unfortunately I don't own them. Solid State amps certainly don't look as cool, but they do work better. Hi-Fi is so loaded with goofy products, I don't know why there aren't SS amps disguised with cosmetic-only tubes. That way you get the nice glowing bling but with no-nonsense, clean, hassle-free sound. Tubes get the automatic win for cosmetic lust. Hell, not even Josh Stippich could make a transistor LOOK cool. I want to like tubes, but I never experienced "bloom" myself, just "weak bass". Totally different story if we're talking guitar amps, though.

JoshK · « **Reply #88 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 07:05 pm »

Nathan,

That sounds like its a function of the speakers you use. Must be reactive or dip low in the lower registers. Boomy bass is a function of the higher output impedance of a tube amp raising the system Q of the bass tuning, which can sometimes lead to boomy bass.

sleepysurf · « **Reply #89 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 07:05 pm »

Here's an interesting twist to the SS approach... the new Wyred 4 Sound STP... a fully balanced combined passive/active linestage!
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=335184&b_id=&find_groupid=17873

Looks intriguing on paper, especially at that price point! Anybody have a chance to hear it?

Watson · « **Reply #90 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: sleepysurf on 7 Apr 2009, 07:05 pm

Here's an interesting twist to the SS approach... the new Wyred 4 Sound STP... a fully balanced combined passive/active linestage!
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=335184&b_id=&find_groupid=17873

Looks intriguing on paper, especially at that price point! Anybody have a chance to hear it?

... that's just an active preamp with unity gain. Also called a unity gain buffer.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #91 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 08:02 pm »

Quote from: nathanm on 7 Apr 2009, 06:55 pm

Really?! Man, am I out of touch. All the tube amps I've owned I would describe as bass-shy if anything. Switching from tubes to SS has always made me think, "Hey cool, bass!" I figure there must be speakers which do work well with tubes, but unfortunately I don't own them. I want to like tubes, but I never experienced "bloom" myself, just "weak bass". Totally different story if we're talking guitar amps, though.

I mostly feel the same....twin power supplies (mono blocks if amps) and or voltage regulation tightens and strengthens bass so even SS lovers can totally dig tubes.

I've heard too many little tube integrateds, amps and preamps and have been unimpressed, too...so soft, and so boring

to listen to (and so not like real music in the ways I crave). It all changes with dual power supplies and or voltage regulation (and of course, relatively easy loads for tube to drive)

Seriously, the difference is game changing when you get the right tube gear to listen to.

I'm sure the techies can illuminate the point(s) more, but I just know it's a serious step mostly in the right direction

John

charmerci · « **Reply #92 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 08:22 pm »

Quote from: nathanm on 7 Apr 2009, 06:55 pm

Quote
I know the main gripe about the "tube sound" is boomy bass.
Really?! Man, am I out of touch. All the tube amps I've owned I would describe as bass-shy if anything. Switching from tubes to SS has always made me think, "Hey cool, bass!" I figure there must be speakers which do work well with tubes, but unfortunately I don't own them. Solid State amps certainly don't look as cool, but they do work better. Hi-Fi is so loaded with goofy products, I don't know why there aren't SS amps disguised with cosmetic-only tubes. That way you get the nice glowing bling but with no-nonsense, clean, hassle-free sound. Tubes get the automatic win for cosmetic lust. Hell, not even Josh Stippich could make a transistor LOOK cool. I want to like tubes, but I never experienced "bloom" myself, just "weak bass". Totally different story if we're talking guitar amps, though.

Maybe "boom"y isn't the right word? It's more like "Wooo." Woofy bass?

KnowTalent · « **Reply #93 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 08:52 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 7 Apr 2009, 08:02 pm

Quote from: nathanm on 7 Apr 2009, 06:55 pm
Really?! Man, am I out of touch. All the tube amps I've owned I would describe as bass-shy if anything. Switching from tubes to SS has always made me think, "Hey cool, bass!" I figure there must be speakers which do work well with tubes, but unfortunately I don't own them. I want to like tubes, but I never experienced "bloom" myself, just "weak bass". Totally different story if we're talking guitar amps, though.

I mostly feel the same....twin power supplies (mono blocks if amps) and or voltage regulation tightens and strengthens bass so even SS lovers can totally dig tubes.

I've heard too many little tube integrateds, amps and preamps and have been unimpressed, too...so soft, and so boring to listen to (and so not like real music in the ways I crave). It all changes with dual power supplies and or voltage regulation (and of course, relatively easy loads for tube to drive)

Seriously, the difference is game changing when you get the right tube gear to listen to.

I'm sure the techies can illuminate the point(s) more, but I just know it's a serious step mostly in the right direction

John

I've always gravitated toward the sound of McIntoshs SS amps. All the power you need, smooth mids, slight bloom and no NOS tube fetish to deal with.
I have a MESA Lonestar Special guitar amp and dig the tubes in that particular amp

werd · « **Reply #94 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 09:24 pm »

I was just wandering when the best time is to plant my tube seeds for a fall kt-88 harvest, is june too late?...am i getting off topic here ?

KnowTalent · « **Reply #95 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 09:29 pm »

Quote from: werd on 7 Apr 2009, 09:24 pm

I was just wandering when the best time is to plant my tube seeds for a fall kt-88 harvest, is june too late?...am i getting off topic here ?

Time to book travel to eastern block countries! (Bring lots of bubble wrap

)

keenween · « **Reply #96 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 09:47 pm »

What is "bloom"?

I've only done SS amps so far with a passive pre-amp, with the inefficient box speakers I've had I think it makes sense though.

I hope to experiment with tube pre-amps sooner than later.

It would be nice to have a tubed second system with some high efficiency speaks in the future, but I won't have funds or space for that in the next decade

*Scotty* · « **Reply #97 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 10:33 pm »

I don't know for certain if I have ever heard bloom and recognized it. My custom Tripath amp had what could be considered a lean midrange though not objectionably so and my custom chip amp has a harmonically complete sounding midrange,maybe this equates to bloom. People who have compared Gainclones to tubes please comment. Do Gainclones have bloom or not?
Scotty

Niteshade · « **Reply #98 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 10:48 pm »

Bloom to me is a way to describe the projection attributes of an amplifier: Does the sound seem to be in front of the speakers instead of in them or in back of them? Typically a sterile sounding amp won't have any bloom. Bloom would indicate a forward, engaging tone quality.

Any thoughts on this?

konut · « **Reply #99 on:** 7 Apr 2009, 11:02 pm »

Bloom is euphonic harmonic distortion. Tube afficianados do not like to admit that the sound that they prefer includes this pleasing form of distortion. They call it bloom instead.