I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.

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Wind Chaser

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #340 on: 2 Jul 2019, 05:59 pm »

ted_b

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #341 on: 2 Jul 2019, 06:06 pm »
Frank,
I'm getting almost 50mph when I charge at home.  Make sure you (or your electrician) uses thick wire for 60amp service (pulls 48a) and the right circuit breaker of course.  I dial down my 48A (done via console) usually to 36 or 40A but nonetheless at 48A I get darn near 50mph charge, so that handles any traveling I do during the day, even out to the mountains.  And I default to auto schedule my charging for after 8am and before dark so as to use my solar panels and not produce demand that my co-op utility might ding me for (something they call load factor adjustment, a freaking tariff/tax on solar users drop in overall use that they hadn't planned on!!).  We do same for dryer, dishwasher and any high demand appliance...but it's easy...it's just the two of us.  So far so good, a charge of no more than $25/mo (although Colorado has just now gotten its first 90 degree days of the year, so we'll see. High desert nights are cool so ac is off anyway, due to a couple open windows and and an attic-based remote whole house fan).

DaveC113

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #342 on: 2 Jul 2019, 06:07 pm »
What's your point?  I'm not trying to save the world with a Tesla.  Replacing your Tesla within 5 yrs is MUCH more wasteful than just driving a regular car anyway.  The thought that it doesn't take oil to produce anything is where the issue starts.  Oil is used for manufacturing every single item in the world regardless of what it is.  That's fact.

Even food, there is a direct correlation between food production and oil, to the point they are nearly interchangeable.

If you bike to work (non-ebike, human powered), you can take the extra calorie requirements and determine how much oil was used to get you to work on your bike. 

IMO the real issue is a combination of population and tech that isn't advanced enough to handle the population without significantly changing the environment, and a complete lack of tech that would enable us to have some control over the Earth's climate. The drivers of population growth are poverty and religion, we've seen instances where population in developed countries slows or stops when you mostly eliminate poverty and antiquated religious ideas. Now, it's too late as we're headed for at least 11B population, but if we handle these issues we may keep the world's population from growing more than that and even start bringing it down... assuming the Earth's natural processes don't eliminate a huge chunk of human population via disease first, which seems like a very likely scenario.

But yeah... Teslas saving the world? Give me a break!  :duh:

DaveC113

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #343 on: 2 Jul 2019, 06:13 pm »
Anyways, we may have already poisoned ourselves with plastic waste, which will be the end of life on Earth with the exception of some single celled organisms, then it'll all start again.

This could easily be the case and concentrating on EVs and CO2 is just a distraction. Who knows... in life as in audio, keeping an open mind is probably a good idea considering how limited human perception and intelligence really is.

audioengr

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #344 on: 2 Jul 2019, 06:48 pm »
What's your point?  I'm not trying to save the world with a Tesla.  Replacing your Tesla within 5 yrs is MUCH more wasteful than just driving a regular car anyway.  The thought that it doesn't take oil to produce anything is where the issue starts.  Oil is used for manufacturing every single item in the world regardless of what it is.  That's fact.

Oil is fine for producing products, just not for burning for energy or transportation.  That's my point.

Saturn94

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #345 on: 2 Jul 2019, 08:24 pm »
Even food, there is a direct correlation between food production and oil, to the point they are nearly interchangeable.

If you bike to work (non-ebike, human powered), you can take the extra calorie requirements and determine how much oil was used to get you to work on your bike. 

IMO the real issue is a combination of population and tech that isn't advanced enough to handle the population without significantly changing the environment, and a complete lack of tech that would enable us to have some control over the Earth's climate. The drivers of population growth are poverty and religion, we've seen instances where population in developed countries slows or stops when you mostly eliminate poverty and antiquated religious ideas. Now, it's too late as we're headed for at least 11B population, but if we handle these issues we may keep the world's population from growing more than that and even start bringing it down... assuming the Earth's natural processes don't eliminate a huge chunk of human population via disease first, which seems like a very likely scenario.

But yeah... Teslas saving the world? Give me a break!  :duh:

Agree!

jtwrace

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #346 on: 2 Jul 2019, 09:08 pm »
Oil is fine for producing products, just not for burning for energy or transportation.  That's my point.
Do you realize that even when you plug your Tesla into the wall you're still burning oil?   :lol:   

ted_b

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #347 on: 2 Jul 2019, 09:17 pm »
Do you realize that even when you plug your Tesla into the wall you're still burning oil?   :lol:
Not me!

avahifi

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #348 on: 2 Jul 2019, 09:26 pm »
I did not buy a Tesla to save the world.  I bought it because I deserved to treat myself again after driving the same car for 18 years, because it is the first car I have tested over this time that I like better than my old Audi, because it is a blast to drive, has the highest safety rating, and finally makes driving easier.

You want to save the world?  Simple, just go all out to support molten salt Thorium atomic reactors. Wind and solar won’t do the job, do your homework.

Frank

avahifi

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #349 on: 2 Jul 2019, 09:34 pm »
By the way, because my home only had a 100 amp electrical service, I am only having a 20 amp 240V line installed in my garage.  That will give me about 15mph charge.  Plenty to keep battery warm in the winter and since I don’t drive every day, adequate for my driving needs too.  In a pinch, there is a Tesla supercharger only 3 miles from my home.

Frank

stlrman

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #350 on: 2 Jul 2019, 09:59 pm »
How much for your home charging station?
How much to Supercharge?

jtwrace

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #351 on: 2 Jul 2019, 10:04 pm »
Not me!
Solar panels in the USA account for < 2% for all electric.  Compared to what Asia does, we in the USA aren't going to even move the needle. 


Like audio, whatever makes you happy though. 

cliffy

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #352 on: 3 Jul 2019, 12:42 am »
Did anyone else read the article in the above link?

Guess not. 🤷‍♂️

ted_b

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #353 on: 3 Jul 2019, 12:58 am »
Solar panels in the USA account for < 2% for all electric.  Compared to what Asia does, we in the USA aren't going to even move the needle. 


Like audio, whatever makes you happy though.

Yes, I agree that at some point in our history the wisdom was that the earth was indeed flat.  And horses were the main mode of transportation at one time.  And blacksmith was a great job.  But I prefer to look forward, where in progressive states the cleaner energy jobs are burgeoning, and where the US can someday say that cleaner energy is a source for a majority of our electricity.  In the meantime, I prefer to, yes, make me happy and maybe do my part in history.  Ya gotta start somewhere!!

Saturn94

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #354 on: 3 Jul 2019, 02:20 am »
Guess not. 🤷‍♂️

I did.  It was depressing.

charmerci

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #355 on: 3 Jul 2019, 02:45 am »
I did.  It was depressing.
Yup.

Plus, the planet's hottest June in history was last month. Things aren't looking so good.

EkW

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #356 on: 3 Jul 2019, 03:15 am »
I did.  It was depressing.
The quality of the argument was the most depressing bit. Several points confuse correlation with causation. Some are just random facts, see #7; it just states the fraction of hydrocarbons go towards electricity generation. So what if it takes 100 barrels of oil worth of energy to make a battery that can store one barrels
's worth? Over its lifetime the battery will store and release 500 or more barrels worth.  Energy is used in the production of energy related devices seems to be his trivial point. He is right that displacing hydrocarbons is hard. His pessmism is misplaced. Capacity factors for wind, especially offshore, are set to go way up as towers get taller and reach where there is almost always wind. Storage doesn't have to be by battery. There are already several large solar thermal facilities (their big problem, as with windmills, is bird kills). Pumped storage is being used for some wind turbines too.  I thought that it was a rather poor article and if I were grading it as a paper for a class it would get a D, mostly for the poor logic. My professor nephew keeps a stash of plots that 'prove' all sorts of impossible causes and effects.

martyo

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #357 on: 3 Jul 2019, 12:52 pm »
Quote from: jtwrace on Yesterday at 04:04 pm
Solar panels in the USA account for < 2% for all electric.  Compared to what Asia does, we in the USA aren't going to even move the needle. 


Like audio, whatever makes you happy though.
 
Yes, I agree that at some point in our history the wisdom was that the earth was indeed flat.  And horses were the main mode of transportation at one time.  And blacksmith was a great job.  But I prefer to look forward, where in progressive states the cleaner energy jobs are burgeoning, and where the US can someday say that cleaner energy is a source for a majority of our electricity.  In the meantime, I prefer to, yes, make me happy and maybe do my part in history.  Ya gotta start somewhere!!

Thanks

martyo

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #358 on: 3 Jul 2019, 12:54 pm »
The quality of the argument was the most depressing bit. Several points confuse correlation with causation. Some are just random facts, see #7; it just states the fraction of hydrocarbons go towards electricity generation. So what if it takes 100 barrels of oil worth of energy to make a battery that can store one barrels
's worth? Over its lifetime the battery will store and release 500 or more barrels worth.  Energy is used in the production of energy related devices seems to be his trivial point. He is right that displacing hydrocarbons is hard. His pessmism is misplaced. Capacity factors for wind, especially offshore, are set to go way up as towers get taller and reach where there is almost always wind. Storage doesn't have to be by battery. There are already several large solar thermal facilities (their big problem, as with windmills, is bird kills). Pumped storage is being used for some wind turbines too.  I thought that it was a rather poor article and if I were grading it as a paper for a class it would get a D, mostly for the poor logic. My professor nephew keeps a stash of plots that 'prove' all sorts of impossible causes and effects.

Another thanks

kingdeezie

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #359 on: 3 Jul 2019, 03:09 pm »
Yes, I agree that at some point in our history the wisdom was that the earth was indeed flat.  And horses were the main mode of transportation at one time.  And blacksmith was a great job.  But I prefer to look forward, where in progressive states the cleaner energy jobs are burgeoning, and where the US can someday say that cleaner energy is a source for a majority of our electricity.  In the meantime, I prefer to, yes, make me happy and maybe do my part in history.  Ya gotta start somewhere!!

Except "progressive" states aren't really burgeoning anything worthwhile, or even "clean."

Wind energy is a joke. You need massive amounts of land to create wind farms that produce very little energy respectively.

Solar energy produces massive amounts of waste, which in 15-25 years when all of the panels will need to be sent out to pasture, will cause a huge toxic waste problem.

Some countries that have resorted to burning the old panels to reclaim some of the material used to make them, release massive amounts of toxins in the air during incineration. Toxins also leak out of the panels if they are left in a "dump," and eventually end up contaminating local water sources.   

The other issue is that both wind and solar need to be augmented by burning fossil fuels anyway, as there isn't a way to store the energy for times when the sun is not up, and the wind isn't blowing.

If people really wanted to decrease carbon emissions, we would have been utilizing Nuclear Power more heavily throughout the US for the last few decades.

Instead, now we are stuck in a state of limbo, where we have to deploy expensive half measures that are just adding to the problem in different ways.