AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Circles => Hypex Owners Circle => Topic started by: jhm731 on 16 Mar 2014, 06:59 pm
-
Paul makes a big decision on the amp-
I have thrown the towel in on the PWM output stage for a reference amp. While I think that if we make a smaller integrated or perhaps a smaller amp for a lower cost it'd be fine. In all honesty, it still sounds terrific and most people would absolutely love what it does and sounds like.
But the reference amp has to be of the same caliber as the DS. And that means it's the best in the world, or as close to that as we can achieve. I don't believe it's currently possible to get there with class D PWM technology at this time. Perhaps later. Maybe even Ted will jump in and make it work. Who knows?
But for now we are taking a different course to get where we need to go. I designed a zero feedback, fully balanced input stage that really sounds incredible. It is a state of the art contender as an input stage and may work as a preamp someday. It's also what we'll probably save out of the amp work for a front end.
But the output stage is still up in the air and I've decided to take a different course altogether (than class D). This is the third course correction so far, on this sea of change for the amp, but with a speaker system as resolving as the IRS, a DAC as open and definitive as DirectStream, there can be no choice if perfection is the goal. Perfection IS the goal. Maybe it's just my age, but I don't want to waste time on something that doesn't kick ass on everything else. Not for the Reference design. Not for the main amp in Music Room One. Not for the amp I want to hang our hats on and suggest you do the same.
I am currently listening to a prototype of just such an amp. A few of you have heard this amp when visiting the Music Room. It isn't yet perfect but IMHO there's nothing even close to it that I've heard. It is a design from an old friend, someone I respect greatly and someone who has better design chops than I. Bascom King.
We're going to marry my input stage with his output stage and that SHOULD give us what we want. All MOSFET, high bias Class A/B, housed in a P10 chassis.
Yes it sets things back yet again. But I am not going to be apologetic. I've beaten myself up enough over this already. Our controller and GM have waved enough fingers in my face about the cost of changing directions so many times and now, to hire an outside consultant ...... start over .... abandon most of what we've done ....... welcome to my world of being a perfectionist on a mission.
-
Please provide the link where this is from.
-
Please provide the link where this is from.
http://www.psaudio.com/forum/#/discussion/6617/paul-makes-a-big-decision-on-the-amp
-
Hard to take any of this too seriously. First it was ncore and they were "blown away", then, due to pricing, they were going to take the UcD to new heights, now, class d is out and A/B is in......whatever....
-
Well, the market and listening tests will tell the tale.
-
I wonder if it is similar to the JOB 225
-
Perhaps Paul's most apt statement was back in December:
"Bruno is a lot smarter than I am."
http://www.pstracks.com/pauls-posts/grain/12761/
-
Perhaps Paul's most apt statement was back in December:
"Bruno is a lot smarter than I am."
He's now smart enough to know he can't build a reference amp using Bruno's modules.
-
He's now smart enough to know he can't build a reference amp using Bruno's modules.
He tried to make a reference amp using UCD modules (not NCores) and he failed.
In other words, he realized his own limitations; which makes him wiser, not smarter.
-
He tried to make a reference amp using UCD modules (not NCores) and he failed.
In other words, he realized his own limitations; which makes him wiser, not smarter.
Exactly. You have to question his definition of "reference" amp when he chooses the UcD instead of the improved ncore.
-
Exactly. You have to question his definition of "reference" amp when he chooses the UcD instead of the improved ncore.
And, I believe, at a price point under $5000 which certainly leaves out the NC1200.
-
When this PS Audio reference amp is in the world, then it will be possible to listen and compare it to other gear to our hearts' content. Until then, just idle speculation.
-
I agree, let's just talk about things that exist.
-
So many 'reference' products have come and gone - who cares. Paul is very good at rhetoric, but his products are rarely 'world best'. He keeps up the discussion, whilst products get delivered later and later. But that's his prerogative. Does his network player already plays gap-less.......???
-
Well, that's too bad..... for PS Audio.
-
Well, that's too bad..... for PS Audio.
No, it's too bad..... for Hypex.
-
Hardly.
-
C'mon audiophiles.
Let's applaud any attempt to improve on what is possible from an amp (or any other audio gear). That's how progress is made. If Hypex is pushing the envelope in a way that causes other amp designers to go back to the drawing board? Great. If PS Audio feels that a design that doesn't incorporate Hypex modules can outperform a Hypex design, let's wait and see how their new amp stacks up at that price point. Music Direct carries PS Audio, and has an excellent return policy, so directly comparing the PS Audio when releases with a Hypex or any other amp shouldn't be a difficult proposition.
Pretty simple.
-
C'mon audiophiles.
Let's applaud any attempt to improve on what is possible from an amp (or any other audio gear). That's how progress is made. If Hypex is pushing the envelope in a way that causes other amp designers to go back to the drawing board? Great. If PS Audio feels that a design that doesn't incorporate Hypex modules can outperform a Hypex design, let's wait and see how their new amp stacks up at that price point. Music Direct carries PS Audio, and has an excellent return policy, so directly comparing the PS Audio when releases with a Hypex or any other amp shouldn't be a difficult proposition.
Pretty simple.
Maybe PS Audio will make an American version of the Job amp. :thumb:
-
Ah, this week it seems to be tubes (http://"http://www.pstracks.com/pauls-posts/i-never-thought-id-write-this/13733/")...
-
Ah, this week it seems to be www dot pstracks dot com/pauls-posts/i-never-thought-id-write-this/13733/"]tubes (http://"http://[link removed because of virus warning. Go to:)...
No doubt, it will be a tube input with MOSFET outputs,similar to the Moscode amps from the 80's.
-
I'm getting "link removed for virus warning" from that link provided. ????
http://[link removed because of virus warning.
http://[link removed because of virus warning. Go to:] www dot pstracks dot com/pauls-posts/i-never-thought-id-write-this/13733/
-
All of PS Audio links say that for some reason. This is what was in Paul's email of today said.
I never thought I’d write this
Funny how life throws you curve balls. I just got a curve ball, a left hook and a knockout punch delivered to me in one swell foop. I can’t believe I am writing this.
As some of you may know, after three attempts at designing a power amplifier to beat all other power amplifiers made, I threw in the towel and hired my dear friend Bascom King to see what he could do. Bascom is one of the best designers on the planet. Bascom agreed, the work’s begun.
The original idea was an all MOSFET design, using the zero feedback, high voltage input stage I designed, the outputs configured anew by the good Dr. King (as he’s known). All that changed with my last visit to Arnie Nudell’s home.
While working on the final voicing for DirectStream with Arnie (which, by the way is finally finished), we got to talking about the new amp over lunch. Describing the circuitry to Arnie, he said something to me that has changed the course of this design, PS Audio and me personally forever.
“Why don’t you man up and put a vacuum tube in the front end?” Oh lord. I love the sound of vacuum tubes, always have, but never had the courage to step up and put one in a PS Audio product. We’ve been hardcore solid state for over 40 years.
“If you really want to build a power amplifier that is the best in the world, one that truly matches DirectStream, you’ll do what you know is right.” Arnie’s like that. He makes sense.
And so it is. I still can’t believe I am writing this. When we approached Bascom with the decision he nearly fell over. ”That was easy, I was afraid to even suggest it. It’s the right thing to do if you want to make an amp to beat all others.”
And so it is.
-
....after three attempts at designing a power amplifier to beat all other power amplifiers made, I threw in the towel
Again, how seriously can you take this when he chose the UcD over the superior ncore? More PS Audio marketing blather I am afraid...I threw in the towel on PS Audio quite some time ago....
-
I don't see how any of this is relevant to this circle anymore.
-
I'm with you, Cab. He delivers a parable and some tried and true name dropping to make everything exciting again .............. but there is no sign of anything but talk, and it is very unoriginal talk at that. He can't do much without HP propping him up in print. Is that still happening, by the way?
-
Again, how seriously can you take this when he chose the UcD over the superior ncore? More PS Audio marketing blather I am afraid...I threw in the towel on PS Audio quite some time ago....
Very seriously. I used to work with Paul at PS Audio, and while I admit that sometimes he is a little too free with using hyperbole, he does listen, and he does care about good sound.
As far as why he did not use NC-1200, it is because the price of the modules, places a stereo amp in at least the 5 figure territory (and unlike Merrill and Atsah, PS would not use the stock module, they would add their own input stage, raising the price further), and PS Audio does not make products at that price level. They try and provide high value high end sound. I suspect the new amp, when it finally arrives, will provide very very good sonic performance, at a very fair price. I would not dismiss this project until you have a chance to listen.
BTW, try listening to a PS Audio Classic 250 amplifier sometime. They did not make that many, but they are very good amps.
-
Very seriously. I used to work with Paul at PS Audio, and while I admit that sometimes he is a little too free with using hyperbole, he does listen, and he does care about good sound.
As far as why he did not use NC-1200, it is because the price of the modules, places a stereo amp in at least the 5 figure territory (and unlike Merrill and Atsah, PS would not use the stock module, they would add their own input stage, raising the price further), and PS Audio does not make products at that price level. They try and provide high value high end sound. I suspect the new amp, when it finally arrives, will provide very very good sonic performance, at a very fair price. I would not dismiss this project until you have a chance to listen.
BTW, try listening to a PS Audio Classic 250 amplifier sometime. They did not make that many, but they are very good amps.
That's all good and well, but he actually said this new amp would be an assault on the state of the art, a no-holds barred, world class, blah blah blah. He didn't make any qualifiers about "at a certain price point". If he would have said something along the lines of "the best sub $10K amp", I wouldn't have made the comments I have made. He didn't, thus my comments.
-
cab: Like I said, Paul is a little too loose with the hyperbole! In any case, I expect the new amp, if and when it becomes a reality, will deliver fantastic sonic performance at a very fair price.
Will this amplifier equal the absolute best available, well I doubt that many here would even agree what that is! I know if price and power consumption were not limitations for me, I would be very interested in owning top level Vitus Class A monoblocks...
-
cab: Like I said, Paul is a little too loose with the hyperbole!
Exactly and why I gave up on BS Audio some time ago. All the marketing turns me off.